Dallas Cowboys QB Trey Lance Thread

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:
I agree. I never said hat Lance should sit again. This is Lance year. There is also only so much you can develop by sitting. Now it's time to put it on the field. But to say, nothing is gained by sitting would be false in my opinion.

I don't think sitting for a full year is needed. I agree that there is some benefit from doing it early in the season. Sounds like SF was almost ready to make a change at one point....we rattled off some wins and let it ride.

On to 2022 and if people can read between the lines it's Lance's job and should be.

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:
Umm...people do see that he's middle tier. But some just like to focus on one or two posters that put him above that.

Conversely, there are numerous posters that say he is trash, which I adamantly disagree (Like you did, when discussing trade compensation)

I don't know why we need to go over his....again. Yet here we are.

I don't think he's trash...he's a startable NFL QB. middle tier and replaceable end of the day. It's ground hog's day in here...you know this. Until Jimmy is out the door people will do whatever to make it a discussion.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
It was wasted in terms of Trey Lance, not in terms of the 49ers. I get that this is the Trey thread, so maybe thats what you are focusing on. But from a team standpoint it was not wasted. I have had season tickets for decades and sat through every game of some real sh**ty seasons. Last year was frustrating at times, but was an absolute blast. It wasnt a wasted season.

I get the argument that since we didnt win and didnt develop Lance in games, we essentially kicked the can down the road a year, which we did. But doing so made for a great season that came up just a little bit short.

Even regarding TL was Brady's rookie season wasted?
Mahomes?
Rodgers?
Montana?

and on and on...

Do you need real games to develop? The above QBs show that no you do not.

I promise you the list of good QBs in history who started their rookie year is exponentially longer than this list you can come up with of the opposite.

Not sure about that but really not a contest of sheer macro numbers. You said the year "was wasted in terms of Trey Lance". This assumption would be correct if no QBs developed without game action. Plenty have.

My belief is QBs can only develop so much without playing. You can learn how to be a pro. Learn how to prepare. Learn the playbook. But thats as far as it goes IMO. Much more can be learned from playing.

So yes, I stand by the fact that strictly in terms of Trey Lance, him not playing much at all was a waste in terms of his development. I never said he didnt develop at all.

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
It was wasted in terms of Trey Lance, not in terms of the 49ers. I get that this is the Trey thread, so maybe thats what you are focusing on. But from a team standpoint it was not wasted. I have had season tickets for decades and sat through every game of some real sh**ty seasons. Last year was frustrating at times, but was an absolute blast. It wasnt a wasted season.

I get the argument that since we didnt win and didnt develop Lance in games, we essentially kicked the can down the road a year, which we did. But doing so made for a great season that came up just a little bit short.

Even regarding TL was Brady's rookie season wasted?
Mahomes?
Rodgers?
Montana?

and on and on...

Do you need real games to develop? The above QBs show that no you do not.

I promise you the list of good QBs in history who started their rookie year is exponentially longer than this list you can come up with of the opposite.

Not sure about that but really not a contest of sheer macro numbers. You said the year "was wasted in terms of Trey Lance". This assumption would be correct if no QBs developed without game action. Plenty have.

My belief is QBs can only develop so much without playing. You can learn how to be a pro. Learn how to prepare. Learn the playbook. But thats as far as it goes IMO. Much more can be learned from playing.

So yes, I stand by the fact that strictly in terms of Trey Lance, him not playing much at all was a waste in terms of his development. I never said he didnt develop at all.

Not sure how you can hold the belief in the face of evidence to the contrary. Mahomes played less than TL as a rook had 10 TDs in 2 games in his sophomore season to open. He was a league MVP from the jump year 2, of course behind Alex Smith year one on the depth chart. This explicitly is what our club is going for.

https://www.espn.com/blog/san-francisco-49ers/post/_/id/39441/it-took-two-guys-being-humble-49ers-can-model-qb-situation-after-the-patrick-mahomes-alex-smith-chiefs

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
It was wasted in terms of Trey Lance, not in terms of the 49ers. I get that this is the Trey thread, so maybe thats what you are focusing on. But from a team standpoint it was not wasted. I have had season tickets for decades and sat through every game of some real sh**ty seasons. Last year was frustrating at times, but was an absolute blast. It wasnt a wasted season.

I get the argument that since we didnt win and didnt develop Lance in games, we essentially kicked the can down the road a year, which we did. But doing so made for a great season that came up just a little bit short.

Even regarding TL was Brady's rookie season wasted?
Mahomes?
Rodgers?
Montana?

and on and on...

Do you need real games to develop? The above QBs show that no you do not.

I promise you the list of good QBs in history who started their rookie year is exponentially longer than this list you can come up with of the opposite.

Not sure about that but really not a contest of sheer macro numbers. You said the year "was wasted in terms of Trey Lance". This assumption would be correct if no QBs developed without game action. Plenty have.

My belief is QBs can only develop so much without playing. You can learn how to be a pro. Learn how to prepare. Learn the playbook. But thats as far as it goes IMO. Much more can be learned from playing.

So yes, I stand by the fact that strictly in terms of Trey Lance, him not playing much at all was a waste in terms of his development. I never said he didnt develop at all.

The kid is barely 21. If shanalynch and the vet stars wanted Jimmy starting last year because they thought it gave them the best chance to win, so be it. The hope is that Trey has a 15 to 20 year career. I don't think Brady is crying over his wasted rookie year of not playing. It's our ADD generation - trey was the shiny new toy that we couldnt wait to open, and we wanted it NOW NOW NOW.

Originally posted by JoseCortez:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
It was wasted in terms of Trey Lance, not in terms of the 49ers. I get that this is the Trey thread, so maybe thats what you are focusing on. But from a team standpoint it was not wasted. I have had season tickets for decades and sat through every game of some real sh**ty seasons. Last year was frustrating at times, but was an absolute blast. It wasnt a wasted season.

I get the argument that since we didnt win and didnt develop Lance in games, we essentially kicked the can down the road a year, which we did. But doing so made for a great season that came up just a little bit short.

Even regarding TL was Brady's rookie season wasted?
Mahomes?
Rodgers?
Montana?

and on and on...

Do you need real games to develop? The above QBs show that no you do not.

I promise you the list of good QBs in history who started their rookie year is exponentially longer than this list you can come up with of the opposite.

Not sure about that but really not a contest of sheer macro numbers. You said the year "was wasted in terms of Trey Lance". This assumption would be correct if no QBs developed without game action. Plenty have.

My belief is QBs can only develop so much without playing. You can learn how to be a pro. Learn how to prepare. Learn the playbook. But thats as far as it goes IMO. Much more can be learned from playing.

So yes, I stand by the fact that strictly in terms of Trey Lance, him not playing much at all was a waste in terms of his development. I never said he didnt develop at all.

The kid is barely 21. If shanalynch and the vet stars wanted Jimmy starting last year because they thought it gave them the best chance to win, so be it. The hope is that Trey has a 15 to 20 year career. I don't think Brady is crying over his wasted rookie year of not playing. It's our ADD generation - trey was the shiny new toy that we couldnt wait to open, and we wanted it NOW NOW NOW.

Discussing Brady a lot is well documented. Bill B refers to his rookie season as a "wasted" roster spot in the sense he did not contribute and was not ready to do so. Really on the roster to avoid another club claiming him as they liked his potential. Bill B also says by the following season Brady was pushing Bledsoe for the starting job in camp. TB did this of course without playing (in reg season games).

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
It was wasted in terms of Trey Lance, not in terms of the 49ers. I get that this is the Trey thread, so maybe thats what you are focusing on. But from a team standpoint it was not wasted. I have had season tickets for decades and sat through every game of some real sh**ty seasons. Last year was frustrating at times, but was an absolute blast. It wasnt a wasted season.

I get the argument that since we didnt win and didnt develop Lance in games, we essentially kicked the can down the road a year, which we did. But doing so made for a great season that came up just a little bit short.

Even regarding TL was Brady's rookie season wasted?
Mahomes?
Rodgers?
Montana?

and on and on...

Do you need real games to develop? The above QBs show that no you do not.

I promise you the list of good QBs in history who started their rookie year is exponentially longer than this list you can come up with of the opposite.

Not sure about that but really not a contest of sheer macro numbers. You said the year "was wasted in terms of Trey Lance". This assumption would be correct if no QBs developed without game action. Plenty have.

My belief is QBs can only develop so much without playing. You can learn how to be a pro. Learn how to prepare. Learn the playbook. But thats as far as it goes IMO. Much more can be learned from playing.

So yes, I stand by the fact that strictly in terms of Trey Lance, him not playing much at all was a waste in terms of his development. I never said he didnt develop at all.

Not sure how you can hold the belief in the face of evidence to the contrary. Mahomes played less than TL as a rook had 10 TDs in 2 games in his sophomore season to open. He was a league MVP from the jump year 2, of course behind Alex Smith year one on the depth chart. This explicitly is what our club is going for.

https://www.espn.com/blog/san-francisco-49ers/post/_/id/39441/it-took-two-guys-being-humble-49ers-can-model-qb-situation-after-the-patrick-mahomes-alex-smith-chiefs

Mahomes also played about 10x more football than Lance, prior to being drafted. And it was real football, in Texas and in the Big 12. Lance has started 2 years in his life at qb, 1 in Minnesota high school and the other in the big sky league(I think)

Originally posted by JoseCortez:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
It was wasted in terms of Trey Lance, not in terms of the 49ers. I get that this is the Trey thread, so maybe thats what you are focusing on. But from a team standpoint it was not wasted. I have had season tickets for decades and sat through every game of some real sh**ty seasons. Last year was frustrating at times, but was an absolute blast. It wasnt a wasted season.

I get the argument that since we didnt win and didnt develop Lance in games, we essentially kicked the can down the road a year, which we did. But doing so made for a great season that came up just a little bit short.

Even regarding TL was Brady's rookie season wasted?
Mahomes?
Rodgers?
Montana?

and on and on...

Do you need real games to develop? The above QBs show that no you do not.

I promise you the list of good QBs in history who started their rookie year is exponentially longer than this list you can come up with of the opposite.

Not sure about that but really not a contest of sheer macro numbers. You said the year "was wasted in terms of Trey Lance". This assumption would be correct if no QBs developed without game action. Plenty have.

My belief is QBs can only develop so much without playing. You can learn how to be a pro. Learn how to prepare. Learn the playbook. But thats as far as it goes IMO. Much more can be learned from playing.

So yes, I stand by the fact that strictly in terms of Trey Lance, him not playing much at all was a waste in terms of his development. I never said he didnt develop at all.

The kid is barely 21. If shanalynch and the vet stars wanted Jimmy starting last year because they thought it gave them the best chance to win, so be it. The hope is that Trey has a 15 to 20 year career. I don't think Brady is crying over his wasted rookie year of not playing. It's our ADD generation - trey was the shiny new toy that we couldnt wait to open, and we wanted it NOW NOW NOW.

For me it has nothing to do with needing something now. It has to do with the fact that I personally believe that even during a season where Trey would have been up and down and taking lumps, he could have replicated at least close to what Jimmy did. Obviously theres no way I can prove that nor is there any way you can prove that to be wrong. That was just my opinion.

And the problem I have with the whole Brady, Rodgers, Steve Young, etc. examples is that they were sitting behind veterans who have been pro bowl QBs. Trey was sitting behind someone that not a single team in the league wants to trade for right now. Thats the major difference. Even Alex Smith, who everyone knows my feelings about, was having arguably his best season as a pro when Mahomes was on the bench. So even that is not a good example. Jimmy had an up and down season.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Not sure how you can hold the belief in the face of evidence to the contrary. Mahomes played less than TL as a rook had 10 TDs in 2 games in his sophomore season to open. He was a league MVP from the jump year 2, of course behind Alex Smith year one on the depth chart. This explicitly is what our club is going for.

https://www.espn.com/blog/san-francisco-49ers/post/_/id/39441/it-took-two-guys-being-humble-49ers-can-model-qb-situation-after-the-patrick-mahomes-alex-smith-chiefs

I can say that because it is physically impossible to prove that Mahomes became Mahomes because he sat his rookie year. That is a fallacy that people fall into. We cant compare it to the opposite, so you cant draw any conclusions from it. Mahomes has stated that even his first year starting, he didnt have a grasp of the playbook at all....and he won the MVP.

There is no tangible evidence that says that Mahomes was able to do what he did because he sat. He could very easily have had the year 2 season he did even if he started year 1.

Originally posted by BamaNiner:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
It was wasted in terms of Trey Lance, not in terms of the 49ers. I get that this is the Trey thread, so maybe thats what you are focusing on. But from a team standpoint it was not wasted. I have had season tickets for decades and sat through every game of some real sh**ty seasons. Last year was frustrating at times, but was an absolute blast. It wasnt a wasted season.

I get the argument that since we didnt win and didnt develop Lance in games, we essentially kicked the can down the road a year, which we did. But doing so made for a great season that came up just a little bit short.

Even regarding TL was Brady's rookie season wasted?
Mahomes?
Rodgers?
Montana?

and on and on...

Do you need real games to develop? The above QBs show that no you do not.

I promise you the list of good QBs in history who started their rookie year is exponentially longer than this list you can come up with of the opposite.

Not sure about that but really not a contest of sheer macro numbers. You said the year "was wasted in terms of Trey Lance". This assumption would be correct if no QBs developed without game action. Plenty have.

My belief is QBs can only develop so much without playing. You can learn how to be a pro. Learn how to prepare. Learn the playbook. But thats as far as it goes IMO. Much more can be learned from playing.

So yes, I stand by the fact that strictly in terms of Trey Lance, him not playing much at all was a waste in terms of his development. I never said he didnt develop at all.

Not sure how you can hold the belief in the face of evidence to the contrary. Mahomes played less than TL as a rook had 10 TDs in 2 games in his sophomore season to open. He was a league MVP from the jump year 2, of course behind Alex Smith year one on the depth chart. This explicitly is what our club is going for.

https://www.espn.com/blog/san-francisco-49ers/post/_/id/39441/it-took-two-guys-being-humble-49ers-can-model-qb-situation-after-the-patrick-mahomes-alex-smith-chiefs

Mahomes also played about 10x more football than Lance, prior to being drafted. And it was real football, in Texas and in the Big 12. Lance has started 2 years in his life at qb, 1 in Minnesota high school and the other in the big sky league(I think)

Consider KS and JL bet their careers on TL. He was drafted higher than Mahomes (3rd overall vs 10th) so more value in TL in 2021 draft than Mahomes in 2017 draft. Even with all you mention. We all saw him start twice last year and the improvement between those starts.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Consider KS and JL bet their careers on TL. He was drafted higher than Mahomes (3rd overall vs 10th) so more value in TL in 2021 draft than Mahomes in 2017 draft. Even with all you mention. We all saw him start twice last year and the improvement between those starts.

So wouldnt it be logical to say improvement would have happened if he started all season?

Look, I am not going back down the road saying I think Lance should have started all season last year. All I am simply saying is the people who continue to say "Lance wasnt ready" need to understand and acknowledge the improvement we saw from G1 to G2, and that it is logical to assume that growth/improvement would have happened to a higher degree if he played, say, 10 games.

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by JoseCortez:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
It was wasted in terms of Trey Lance, not in terms of the 49ers. I get that this is the Trey thread, so maybe thats what you are focusing on. But from a team standpoint it was not wasted. I have had season tickets for decades and sat through every game of some real sh**ty seasons. Last year was frustrating at times, but was an absolute blast. It wasnt a wasted season.

I get the argument that since we didnt win and didnt develop Lance in games, we essentially kicked the can down the road a year, which we did. But doing so made for a great season that came up just a little bit short.

Even regarding TL was Brady's rookie season wasted?
Mahomes?
Rodgers?
Montana?

and on and on...

Do you need real games to develop? The above QBs show that no you do not.

I promise you the list of good QBs in history who started their rookie year is exponentially longer than this list you can come up with of the opposite.

Not sure about that but really not a contest of sheer macro numbers. You said the year "was wasted in terms of Trey Lance". This assumption would be correct if no QBs developed without game action. Plenty have.

My belief is QBs can only develop so much without playing. You can learn how to be a pro. Learn how to prepare. Learn the playbook. But thats as far as it goes IMO. Much more can be learned from playing.

So yes, I stand by the fact that strictly in terms of Trey Lance, him not playing much at all was a waste in terms of his development. I never said he didnt develop at all.

The kid is barely 21. If shanalynch and the vet stars wanted Jimmy starting last year because they thought it gave them the best chance to win, so be it. The hope is that Trey has a 15 to 20 year career. I don't think Brady is crying over his wasted rookie year of not playing. It's our ADD generation - trey was the shiny new toy that we couldnt wait to open, and we wanted it NOW NOW NOW.

For me it has nothing to do with needing something now. It has to do with the fact that I personally believe that even during a season where Trey would have been up and down and taking lumps, he could have replicated at least close to what Jimmy did. Obviously theres no way I can prove that nor is there any way you can prove that to be wrong. That was just my opinion.

And the problem I have with the whole Brady, Rodgers, Steve Young, etc. examples is that they were sitting behind veterans who have been pro bowl QBs. Trey was sitting behind someone that not a single team in the league wants to trade for right now. Thats the major difference. Even Alex Smith, who everyone knows my feelings about, was having arguably his best season as a pro when Mahomes was on the bench. So even that is not a good example. Jimmy had an up and down season.

There's no doubt Trey must start week 1 this season. He needs to play. With that said I don't think last year was such a wasted season on him as others do. Fields played more than Trey last year, yet to me Trey had the better year developmentally. Learning how to win is just as important as just getting playing time.

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Not sure how you can hold the belief in the face of evidence to the contrary. Mahomes played less than TL as a rook had 10 TDs in 2 games in his sophomore season to open. He was a league MVP from the jump year 2, of course behind Alex Smith year one on the depth chart. This explicitly is what our club is going for.

https://www.espn.com/blog/san-francisco-49ers/post/_/id/39441/it-took-two-guys-being-humble-49ers-can-model-qb-situation-after-the-patrick-mahomes-alex-smith-chiefs

I can say that because it is physically impossible to prove that Mahomes became Mahomes because he sat his rookie year. That is a fallacy that people fall into. We cant compare it to the opposite, so you cant draw any conclusions from it. Mahomes has stated that even his first year starting, he didnt have a grasp of the playbook at all....and he won the MVP.

There is no tangible evidence that says that Mahomes was able to do what he did because he sat. He could very easily have had the year 2 season he did even if he started year 1.

My point is in response to you saying "there's only so much you can develop" not playing in regular season. Mahomes developed (without playing I think he had 1 game) into a league MVP.

Could he have done so by starting year 1 then becoming MVP year 2 sure that is in the realm of possibility. That's beside the point.

Mahomes developed about as much as any player conceivably can while sitting. It's not like he only developed a bit then needed a rough patch in 2018 to iron out the kinks, which would be more or less your theory of "only so much he can develop by sitting". He started 2018 on absolute fire.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Not sure how you can hold the belief in the face of evidence to the contrary. Mahomes played less than TL as a rook had 10 TDs in 2 games in his sophomore season to open. He was a league MVP from the jump year 2, of course behind Alex Smith year one on the depth chart. This explicitly is what our club is going for.

https://www.espn.com/blog/san-francisco-49ers/post/_/id/39441/it-took-two-guys-being-humble-49ers-can-model-qb-situation-after-the-patrick-mahomes-alex-smith-chiefs

I can say that because it is physically impossible to prove that Mahomes became Mahomes because he sat his rookie year. That is a fallacy that people fall into. We cant compare it to the opposite, so you cant draw any conclusions from it. Mahomes has stated that even his first year starting, he didnt have a grasp of the playbook at all....and he won the MVP.

There is no tangible evidence that says that Mahomes was able to do what he did because he sat. He could very easily have had the year 2 season he did even if he started year 1.

My point is in response to you saying "there's only so much you can develop" not playing in regular season. Mahomes developed (without playing I think he had 1 game) into a league MVP.

Could he have done so by starting year 1 then becoming MVP year 2 sure that is in the realm of possibility. That's beside the point.

Mahomes developed about as much as any player conceivably can while sitting. It's not like he only developed a bit then needed a rough patch in 2018 to iron out the kinks, which would be more or less your theory of "only so much he can develop by sitting". He started 2018 on absolute fire.

And like I already responded to you earlier, you nor I can definitively prove that he wouldnt have done that while playing in year 1. Its not besides the point. Mahomes said he was still basically clueless in terms of knowing the playbook even after sitting in year 1. It was basically natural talent taking over. So again, no one can argue that he was developed sitting on the bench because for that to be true, the opposite has to not be true. And since the opposite never happened, you cant draw conclusions from it.

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Not sure how you can hold the belief in the face of evidence to the contrary. Mahomes played less than TL as a rook had 10 TDs in 2 games in his sophomore season to open. He was a league MVP from the jump year 2, of course behind Alex Smith year one on the depth chart. This explicitly is what our club is going for.

https://www.espn.com/blog/san-francisco-49ers/post/_/id/39441/it-took-two-guys-being-humble-49ers-can-model-qb-situation-after-the-patrick-mahomes-alex-smith-chiefs

I can say that because it is physically impossible to prove that Mahomes became Mahomes because he sat his rookie year. That is a fallacy that people fall into. We cant compare it to the opposite, so you cant draw any conclusions from it. Mahomes has stated that even his first year starting, he didnt have a grasp of the playbook at all....and he won the MVP.

There is no tangible evidence that says that Mahomes was able to do what he did because he sat. He could very easily have had the year 2 season he did even if he started year 1.

My point is in response to you saying "there's only so much you can develop" not playing in regular season. Mahomes developed (without playing I think he had 1 game) into a league MVP.

Could he have done so by starting year 1 then becoming MVP year 2 sure that is in the realm of possibility. That's beside the point.

Mahomes developed about as much as any player conceivably can while sitting. It's not like he only developed a bit then needed a rough patch in 2018 to iron out the kinks, which would be more or less your theory of "only so much he can develop by sitting". He started 2018 on absolute fire.

And like I already responded to you earlier, you nor I can definitively prove that he wouldnt have done that while playing in year 1. Its not besides the point. Mahomes said he was still basically clueless in terms of knowing the playbook even after sitting in year 1. It was basically natural talent taking over. So again, no one can argue that he was developed sitting on the bench because for that to be true, the opposite has to not be true. And since the opposite never happened, you cant draw conclusions from it.

You're getting tied up in a logic pretzel. The reality is he developed into an MVP without a whole lot of reg season play time. To say Lance can't do the same or that QBs need play time yeah Mahomes proved no they don't.