Dallas Cowboys QB Trey Lance Thread

Originally posted by BamaNiner:
Mahomes also played about 10x more football than Lance, prior to being drafted. And it was real football, in Texas and in the Big 12. Lance has started 2 years in his life at qb, 1 in Minnesota high school and the other in the big sky league(I think)

Texas is ranked #31, NDSU is ranked #38. You are not good at this.

Originally posted by BamaNiner:
Mahomes also played about 10x more football than Lance, prior to being drafted. And it was real football, in Texas and in the Big 12. Lance has started 2 years in his life at qb, 1 in Minnesota high school and the other in the big sky league(I think)

Considering all that, he looked way better than you would have expected.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Not sure how you can hold the belief in the face of evidence to the contrary. Mahomes played less than TL as a rook had 10 TDs in 2 games in his sophomore season to open. He was a league MVP from the jump year 2, of course behind Alex Smith year one on the depth chart. This explicitly is what our club is going for.

https://www.espn.com/blog/san-francisco-49ers/post/_/id/39441/it-took-two-guys-being-humble-49ers-can-model-qb-situation-after-the-patrick-mahomes-alex-smith-chiefs

I can say that because it is physically impossible to prove that Mahomes became Mahomes because he sat his rookie year. That is a fallacy that people fall into. We cant compare it to the opposite, so you cant draw any conclusions from it. Mahomes has stated that even his first year starting, he didnt have a grasp of the playbook at all....and he won the MVP.

There is no tangible evidence that says that Mahomes was able to do what he did because he sat. He could very easily have had the year 2 season he did even if he started year 1.

My point is in response to you saying "there's only so much you can develop" not playing in regular season. Mahomes developed (without playing I think he had 1 game) into a league MVP.

Could he have done so by starting year 1 then becoming MVP year 2 sure that is in the realm of possibility. That's beside the point.

Mahomes developed about as much as any player conceivably can while sitting. It's not like he only developed a bit then needed a rough patch in 2018 to iron out the kinks, which would be more or less your theory of "only so much he can develop by sitting". He started 2018 on absolute fire.

And like I already responded to you earlier, you nor I can definitively prove that he wouldnt have done that while playing in year 1. Its not besides the point. Mahomes said he was still basically clueless in terms of knowing the playbook even after sitting in year 1. It was basically natural talent taking over. So again, no one can argue that he was developed sitting on the bench because for that to be true, the opposite has to not be true. And since the opposite never happened, you cant draw conclusions from it.

You're getting tied up in a logic pretzel. The reality is he developed into an MVP without a whole lot of reg season play time. To say Lance can't do the same or that QBs need play time yeah Mahomes proved no they don't.

I didnt say Lance cant do the same. But I would feel more confident that he could develop into an MVP player if he played last year than I would since he didnt.

Originally posted by All22:

Originally posted by BamaNiner:
Mahomes also played about 10x more football than Lance, prior to being drafted. And it was real football, in Texas and in the Big 12. Lance has started 2 years in his life at qb, 1 in Minnesota high school and the other in the big sky league(I think)

Considering all that, he looked way better than you would have expected.

Yup. From May 2021 to Sept 2022 that's 16 months. I bet in 16 months you can get a lot done if you set your mind to it and have some of the best help in the world from a pro organization. No doubt.

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
I can say that because it is physically impossible to prove that Mahomes became Mahomes because he sat his rookie year. That is a fallacy that people fall into. We cant compare it to the opposite, so you cant draw any conclusions from it. Mahomes has stated that even his first year starting, he didnt have a grasp of the playbook at all....and he won the MVP.

There is no tangible evidence that says that Mahomes was able to do what he did because he sat. He could very easily have had the year 2 season he did even if he started year 1.

Link?

I remember him talking about not knowing how to read defenses.

Found this

"I understood coverages but how to be able to pick up little tendencies defenses do, stuff that Brady and them have done, they know it, and they just do it. I was just playing."

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/patrick-mahomes-reveals-he-didnt-know-how-to-read-defenses-until-halfway-through-last-year/

Makes sense. Don't expect any player to know how to dissect defenses like Brady right off the bat.

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
I can say that because it is physically impossible to prove that Mahomes became Mahomes because he sat his rookie year. That is a fallacy that people fall into. We cant compare it to the opposite, so you cant draw any conclusions from it. Mahomes has stated that even his first year starting, he didnt have a grasp of the playbook at all....and he won the MVP.

There is no tangible evidence that says that Mahomes was able to do what he did because he sat. He could very easily have had the year 2 season he did even if he started year 1.

Link?

I remember him talking about not knowing how to read defenses.

Found this

"I understood coverages but how to be able to pick up little tendencies defenses do, stuff that Brady and them have done, they know it, and they just do it. I was just playing."

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/patrick-mahomes-reveals-he-didnt-know-how-to-read-defenses-until-halfway-through-last-year/

Makes sense. Don't expect any player to know how to dissect defenses like Brady right off the bat.

You are right. That is what I meant. Not being able to read defenses. My mistake.

Regardless, my point stands.

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
I can say that because it is physically impossible to prove that Mahomes became Mahomes because he sat his rookie year. That is a fallacy that people fall into. We cant compare it to the opposite, so you cant draw any conclusions from it. Mahomes has stated that even his first year starting, he didnt have a grasp of the playbook at all....and he won the MVP.

There is no tangible evidence that says that Mahomes was able to do what he did because he sat. He could very easily have had the year 2 season he did even if he started year 1.

Link?

I remember him talking about not knowing how to read defenses.

Found this

"I understood coverages but how to be able to pick up little tendencies defenses do, stuff that Brady and them have done, they know it, and they just do it. I was just playing."

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/patrick-mahomes-reveals-he-didnt-know-how-to-read-defenses-until-halfway-through-last-year/

Makes sense. Don't expect any player to know how to dissect defenses like Brady right off the bat.

You are right. That is what I meant. Not being able to read defenses.

Regardless, my point stands.

Not really, those are two completely different things. Being able to dissect a defense like Brady is completely different from saying someone doesn't know the playbook.

I don't expect Lance to be able to dissect defenses like Brady or any other top vet for a few years. But I do expect him to know the playbook by now. I believe Kyle even said he already knows it.

Anyways moving on...just want to set the record straight so others don't go on and parrot wrong info.

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
I can say that because it is physically impossible to prove that Mahomes became Mahomes because he sat his rookie year. That is a fallacy that people fall into. We cant compare it to the opposite, so you cant draw any conclusions from it. Mahomes has stated that even his first year starting, he didnt have a grasp of the playbook at all....and he won the MVP.

There is no tangible evidence that says that Mahomes was able to do what he did because he sat. He could very easily have had the year 2 season he did even if he started year 1.

Link?

I remember him talking about not knowing how to read defenses.

Found this

"I understood coverages but how to be able to pick up little tendencies defenses do, stuff that Brady and them have done, they know it, and they just do it. I was just playing."

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/patrick-mahomes-reveals-he-didnt-know-how-to-read-defenses-until-halfway-through-last-year/

Makes sense. Don't expect any player to know how to dissect defenses like Brady right off the bat.

My favorite part of that "I was just playing". Brett Farve did this as well early Packer days. Cam Newton also when he had 400 yard games to open his career. Turns out when you are uber-talented you can just be out there playing backyard style football and crushing it. When you have guys winning on routes all day like Tyreek and Kelce with Reid scheming it all up lots of ways to win each play. We have Deebo, Aiyuk and Kittle with KS dialing it up. Lance can completely crush it even if somewhat raw.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
I can say that because it is physically impossible to prove that Mahomes became Mahomes because he sat his rookie year. That is a fallacy that people fall into. We cant compare it to the opposite, so you cant draw any conclusions from it. Mahomes has stated that even his first year starting, he didnt have a grasp of the playbook at all....and he won the MVP.

There is no tangible evidence that says that Mahomes was able to do what he did because he sat. He could very easily have had the year 2 season he did even if he started year 1.

Link?

I remember him talking about not knowing how to read defenses.

Found this

"I understood coverages but how to be able to pick up little tendencies defenses do, stuff that Brady and them have done, they know it, and they just do it. I was just playing."

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/patrick-mahomes-reveals-he-didnt-know-how-to-read-defenses-until-halfway-through-last-year/

Makes sense. Don't expect any player to know how to dissect defenses like Brady right off the bat.

My favorite part of that "I was just playing". Brett Farve did this as well early Packer days. Cam Newton also when he had 400 yard games to open his career. Turns out when you are uber-talented you can just be out there playing backyard style football and crushing it. When you have guys winning on routes all day like Tyreek and Kelce with Reid scheming it all up lots of ways to win each play. We have Deebo, Aiyuk and Kittle with KS dialing it up. Lance can completely crush it even if somewhat raw.

I agree.

This is where Kyle comes into play. Giving Lance easier defined reads, within the confines of the playbook, to maximize his God given ability.

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
I can say that because it is physically impossible to prove that Mahomes became Mahomes because he sat his rookie year. That is a fallacy that people fall into. We cant compare it to the opposite, so you cant draw any conclusions from it. Mahomes has stated that even his first year starting, he didnt have a grasp of the playbook at all....and he won the MVP.

There is no tangible evidence that says that Mahomes was able to do what he did because he sat. He could very easily have had the year 2 season he did even if he started year 1.

Link?

I remember him talking about not knowing how to read defenses.

Found this

"I understood coverages but how to be able to pick up little tendencies defenses do, stuff that Brady and them have done, they know it, and they just do it. I was just playing."

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/patrick-mahomes-reveals-he-didnt-know-how-to-read-defenses-until-halfway-through-last-year/

Makes sense. Don't expect any player to know how to dissect defenses like Brady right off the bat.

You are right. That is what I meant. Not being able to read defenses.

Regardless, my point stands.

Not really, those are two completely different things. Being able to dissect a defense like Brady is completely different from saying someone doesn't know the playbook.

I don't expect Lance to be able to dissect defenses like Brady or any other top vet for a few years. But I do expect him to know the playbook by now. I believe Kyle even said he already knows it.

Anyways moving on...just want to set the record straight so others don't go on and parrot wrong info.

I was not saying they are the same thing. Just saying that I wrote the wrong thing. Thank you for correcting me.

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
I can say that because it is physically impossible to prove that Mahomes became Mahomes because he sat his rookie year. That is a fallacy that people fall into. We cant compare it to the opposite, so you cant draw any conclusions from it. Mahomes has stated that even his first year starting, he didnt have a grasp of the playbook at all....and he won the MVP.

There is no tangible evidence that says that Mahomes was able to do what he did because he sat. He could very easily have had the year 2 season he did even if he started year 1.

Link?

I remember him talking about not knowing how to read defenses.

Found this

"I understood coverages but how to be able to pick up little tendencies defenses do, stuff that Brady and them have done, they know it, and they just do it. I was just playing."

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/patrick-mahomes-reveals-he-didnt-know-how-to-read-defenses-until-halfway-through-last-year/

Makes sense. Don't expect any player to know how to dissect defenses like Brady right off the bat.

My favorite part of that "I was just playing". Brett Farve did this as well early Packer days. Cam Newton also when he had 400 yard games to open his career. Turns out when you are uber-talented you can just be out there playing backyard style football and crushing it. When you have guys winning on routes all day like Tyreek and Kelce with Reid scheming it all up lots of ways to win each play. We have Deebo, Aiyuk and Kittle with KS dialing it up. Lance can completely crush it even if somewhat raw.

I agree.

This is where Kyle comes into play. Giving Lance easier defined reads, within the confines of the playbook, to maximize his God given ability.

Yep. And this is exactly my point when I have said a bunch of times that Trey doesnt need to be completely ready and/or a finished product to lead this offense to similar results of a Jimmy led offense, at minimum.

Originally posted by Aj_hwd954:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Let's not divide ourselves into "Lance haters" or any nonsense. Everyone wants 49ers and TL to win. Some are more bullish on TL than others. No haters to speak of my man or lady whatever the case may be.

Reposting my 2022 TL statline:

16 starts

4592 pass yds
42 pass TDs
11 INTs
496 rush yds
5 rush TDs

I don't believe that is accurate.

It's true of the Jimmy "haters" because they wanted the team to win they just didn't think Jimmy was capable. To decide Trey isn't capable with ZERO amount of data to support said conclusion is rooting for losing to be "right".

Zero data, yet the self proclaimed "football gurus" on this forum will say Trey would've easily had this team in the nfc championship or better had he start all year. Dumb

Whoo hoo!!! NFCC!!! Let's gooooo!!! When does the parade start for that?



Who fing cares about that. This team was good enough to win a SB for the past 3 years (baring the crazy injuries from a couple years ago). Compare this roster to rest of the NFL, and there are few teams that have a more talented overall roster, if any.

Chiefs could've also said we have a better chance with Alex since they made the playoffs several times with him and Pat was still "raw"

Rams could've held onto Goff since they made a SB with him...

You put ANY top 10 QB on this team in 2019 and this year, and we win a SB. This was a very talented roster and QB play was the obvious downfall. You can blame some on the OL/DBs but nobody had a perfect team. The Chiefs didn't have a perfect team, the Rams didn't either, it was QB play at the end of the day.

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
I can say that because it is physically impossible to prove that Mahomes became Mahomes because he sat his rookie year. That is a fallacy that people fall into. We cant compare it to the opposite, so you cant draw any conclusions from it. Mahomes has stated that even his first year starting, he didnt have a grasp of the playbook at all....and he won the MVP.

There is no tangible evidence that says that Mahomes was able to do what he did because he sat. He could very easily have had the year 2 season he did even if he started year 1.

Link?

I remember him talking about not knowing how to read defenses.

Found this

"I understood coverages but how to be able to pick up little tendencies defenses do, stuff that Brady and them have done, they know it, and they just do it. I was just playing."

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/patrick-mahomes-reveals-he-didnt-know-how-to-read-defenses-until-halfway-through-last-year/

Makes sense. Don't expect any player to know how to dissect defenses like Brady right off the bat.

You are right. That is what I meant. Not being able to read defenses.

Regardless, my point stands.

Not really, those are two completely different things. Being able to dissect a defense like Brady is completely different from saying someone doesn't know the playbook.

I don't expect Lance to be able to dissect defenses like Brady or any other top vet for a few years. But I do expect him to know the playbook by now. I believe Kyle even said he already knows it.

Anyways moving on...just want to set the record straight so others don't go on and parrot wrong info.

I was not saying they are the same thing. Just saying that I wrote the wrong thing. Thank you for correcting me.

It makes a difference when it comes to supporting your point.

And you're welcome

Originally posted by TheGore49er:

Originally posted by Aj_hwd954:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Let's not divide ourselves into "Lance haters" or any nonsense. Everyone wants 49ers and TL to win. Some are more bullish on TL than others. No haters to speak of my man or lady whatever the case may be.

Reposting my 2022 TL statline:

16 starts

4592 pass yds
42 pass TDs
11 INTs
496 rush yds
5 rush TDs

I don't believe that is accurate.

It's true of the Jimmy "haters" because they wanted the team to win they just didn't think Jimmy was capable. To decide Trey isn't capable with ZERO amount of data to support said conclusion is rooting for losing to be "right".

Zero data, yet the self proclaimed "football gurus" on this forum will say Trey would've easily had this team in the nfc championship or better had he start all year. Dumb

Whoo hoo!!! NFCC!!! Let's gooooo!!! When does the parade start for that?



Who fing cares about that. This team was good enough to win a SB for the past 3 years (baring the crazy injuries from a couple years ago). Compare this roster to rest of the NFL, and there are few teams that have a more talented overall roster, if any.

Chiefs could've also said we have a better chance with Alex since they made the playoffs several times with him and Pat was still "raw"

Rams could've held onto Goff since they made a SB with him...

You put ANY top 10 QB on this team in 2019 and this year, and we win a SB. This was a very talented roster and QB play was the obvious downfall. You can blame some on the OL/DBs but nobody had a perfect team. The Chiefs didn't have a perfect team, the Rams didn't either, it was QB play at the end of the day.

Agreed.

Originally posted by TheGore49er:

Originally posted by Aj_hwd954:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Let's not divide ourselves into "Lance haters" or any nonsense. Everyone wants 49ers and TL to win. Some are more bullish on TL than others. No haters to speak of my man or lady whatever the case may be.

Reposting my 2022 TL statline:

16 starts

4592 pass yds
42 pass TDs
11 INTs
496 rush yds
5 rush TDs

I don't believe that is accurate.

It's true of the Jimmy "haters" because they wanted the team to win they just didn't think Jimmy was capable. To decide Trey isn't capable with ZERO amount of data to support said conclusion is rooting for losing to be "right".

Zero data, yet the self proclaimed "football gurus" on this forum will say Trey would've easily had this team in the nfc championship or better had he start all year. Dumb

Whoo hoo!!! NFCC!!! Let's gooooo!!! When does the parade start for that?



Who fing cares about that. This team was good enough to win a SB for the past 3 years (baring the crazy injuries from a couple years ago). Compare this roster to rest of the NFL, and there are few teams that have a more talented overall roster, if any.

Chiefs could've also said we have a better chance with Alex since they made the playoffs several times with him and Pat was still "raw"

Rams could've held onto Goff since they made a SB with him...

You put ANY top 10 QB on this team in 2019 and this year, and we win a SB. This was a very talented roster and QB play was the obvious downfall. You can blame some on the OL/DBs but nobody had a perfect team. The Chiefs didn't have a perfect team, the Rams didn't either, it was QB play at the end of the day.

Hurts so bad to realize that. SB windows don't stay open long. We could be working on #8 this year.