Dallas Cowboys QB Trey Lance Thread

Originally posted by TreyDeyEeyDey:
Its not a tell all but it's a pretty damn easy thing to accomplish across the entire NFL board. But I'm cool to hear who threw under 60% and was successful last year. Can you back that up?

I'm not saying throwing under 60% is good. I'm just saying that tossing out a number like that and not talking about ADOT/air yards per completion along with it is kinda meaningless.

if a guy is avg say 11 air yards per completion and completing say 59% of his passes, that's not apples to apples compared to someone who is avg 6 air yards per completion and completing 68% of his passes.

Originally posted by YACBros85:
Wouldn't using completion % + ADOT be a better way to judge a QB's performance if you are truly attempting to sepatate QB play from overall offensive play?

yes but offenses are different some offenses rely on spreading the ball out horizontally than vertically I dont think a QB should be penalized because the type of offense they are in

Over time if all they can do is rely on short passes and YAC teams will adjust its about completing regular intermediate and the occasional deep target as well.

So i dont think either is 100% the correct way but i think overall yards/attempt over a full season is good enough to determine how the offense is functioning

Originally posted by TreyDeyEeyDey:
It's extremely standard guys. C'mon.

The OP didnt discuss what was standard vs. what was not. In fact,...only you've now brought that up.

Rewind back to what was originally said and then maybe you can comment on whether or not a team goal is to record touchdowns and yards or have a completion percentage above 60%.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by TreyDeyEeyDey:
Its not a tell all but it's a pretty damn easy thing to accomplish across the entire NFL board. But I'm cool to hear who threw under 60% and was successful last year. Can you back that up?

I'm not saying throwing under 60% is good. I'm just saying that tossing out a number like that and not talking about ADOT/air yards per completion along with it is kinda meaningless.

if a guy is avg say 11 air yards per completion and completing say 59% of his passes, that's not apples to apples compared to someone who is avg 6 air yards per completion and completing 68% of his passes.

Which to me are just as hollow. Not many QB's throw under 60% and are successful. On the other hand QB's can have low ADOT and still be succesful.

Originally posted by ritz126:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
Wouldn't using completion % + ADOT be a better way to judge a QB's performance if you are truly attempting to sepatate QB play from overall offensive play?

in my option no because offenses are different some offenses rely on spreading the ball out horizontally than vertically I dont think a QB should be penalized because the type of offense they are in

Over time if all they can do is rely on short passes and YAC teams will adjust its about completing regular intermediate and the occasional deep target as well.

So if a QB is rarely throwing past the markers but instead is throwing it short and the receiver has to consistently fight for the first down everytime, the QB should get the credit for it? In that scenario, it would tell me that the offense is productive inspite of the QB and not because of him.

Sorry, got in before your edit.

We aren't talking offensive production. The conversation is about QB performance and how to separate the two.

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by TreyDeyEeyDey:
It's extremely standard guys. C'mon.

The OP didnt discuss what was standard vs. what was not. In fact,...only you've now brought that up.

Rewind back to what was originally said and then maybe you can comment on whether or not a team goal is to record touchdowns and yards or have a completion percentage above 60%.

Standard as in only only terrible QB's threw under 60%... Even below average QB's hit that number. Am I wrong? Tell me which QB had a good season in the last 3 years that you think had a good season throwing under 60%.

Originally posted by TreyDeyEeyDey:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by TreyDeyEeyDey:
Its not a tell all but it's a pretty damn easy thing to accomplish across the entire NFL board. But I'm cool to hear who threw under 60% and was successful last year. Can you back that up?

I'm not saying throwing under 60% is good. I'm just saying that tossing out a number like that and not talking about ADOT/air yards per completion along with it is kinda meaningless.

if a guy is avg say 11 air yards per completion and completing say 59% of his passes, that's not apples to apples compared to someone who is avg 6 air yards per completion and completing 68% of his passes.

Which to me are just as hollow. Not many QB's throw under 60% and are successful. On the other hand QB's can have low ADOT and still be succesful.

No they can't be. The team can be successful. The QB is a fraud.

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by ritz126:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
Wouldn't using completion % + ADOT be a better way to judge a QB's performance if you are truly attempting to sepatate QB play from overall offensive play?

in my option no because offenses are different some offenses rely on spreading the ball out horizontally than vertically I dont think a QB should be penalized because the type of offense they are in

Over time if all they can do is rely on short passes and YAC teams will adjust its about completing regular intermediate and the occasional deep target as well.

So if a QB is rarely throwing past the markers but instead is throwing it short and the receiver has to consistently fight for the first down everytime, the QB should get the credit for it? In that scenario, it would tell me that the offense is productive inspite of the QB and not because of him.

Sorry, got in before your edit.

We aren't talking offensive production. The conversation is about QB performance and how to separate the two.

ya i reread your comment and rethought haha didn't mean to seem like im switching

i was thinking more about the offense than ranking QB and i generally think of the two having a strong correlation

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

Originally posted by TreyDeyEeyDey:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by TreyDeyEeyDey:
Its not a tell all but it's a pretty damn easy thing to accomplish across the entire NFL board. But I'm cool to hear who threw under 60% and was successful last year. Can you back that up?

I'm not saying throwing under 60% is good. I'm just saying that tossing out a number like that and not talking about ADOT/air yards per completion along with it is kinda meaningless.

if a guy is avg say 11 air yards per completion and completing say 59% of his passes, that's not apples to apples compared to someone who is avg 6 air yards per completion and completing 68% of his passes.

Which to me are just as hollow. Not many QB's throw under 60% and are successful. On the other hand QB's can have low ADOT and still be succesful.

No they can't be. The team can be successful. The QB is a fraud.

Im talking about individual performances.

Originally posted by TreyDeyEeyDey:

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by TreyDeyEeyDey:
It's extremely standard guys. C'mon.

The OP didnt discuss what was standard vs. what was not. In fact,...only you've now brought that up.

Rewind back to what was originally said and then maybe you can comment on whether or not a team goal is to record touchdowns and yards or have a completion percentage above 60%.

Standard as in only only terrible QB's threw under 60%... Even below average QB's hit that number. Am I wrong? Tell me which QB had a good season in the last 3 years that you think had a good season throwing under 60%.

This is clearly a bait & switch. If you refuse to comment on the OP then that's pretty much a tell-all.

To my point Patrick Mahomes had a 7.33 aDOT. Herbert 7.55. Rodgers 7.69. Which are all below average yet all had good seasons.

Yet not one QB threw under 60% and even had a remotely decent season. All had bottom of the league seasons.

https://www.ftnfantasy.com/air-yards

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Anything less than %60 is unacceptable for a starting quarterback.

When this guy's completion % FINALLY dropped below 60%,....he won 2 additional back-to-back MVPs....

I am random...

Originally posted by TreyDeyEeyDey:
Which to me are just as hollow. Not many QB's throw under 60% and are successful. On the other hand QB's can have low ADOT and still be succesful.

It's called context of numbers. I don't expect Lance to complete less then 60% of his passes. High completion % doesn't equal great QB play either. 2020 guys like Mitch trubuisky, Teddy B, Fitzmagic all had 67% or higher.

s**t Cam Newton who was awful in NE completed 65%. I want my completions to meaningful overall.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with adding more data to the convo to isolate what should matter. I value a 11 yard out route more than a 2 yard check down when we're talking about QB play and completions. That's all

Originally posted by TreyDeyEeyDey:
To my point Patrick Mahomes had a 7.33 aDOT. Herbert 7.55. Rodgers 7.69. Which are all below average yet all had good seasons.

Yet not one QB threw under 60% and even had a remotely decent season. All had bottom of the league seasons.

https://www.ftnfantasy.com/air-yards

Cam Newton won MVP completing 59.8% of his passes.

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

Originally posted by TreyDeyEeyDey:
To my point Patrick Mahomes had a 7.33 aDOT. Herbert 7.55. Rodgers 7.69. Which are all below average yet all had good seasons.

Yet not one QB threw under 60% and even had a remotely decent season. All had bottom of the league seasons.

https://www.ftnfantasy.com/air-yards

Cam Newton won MVP completing 59.8% of his passes.

Eli Manning's last Superbowl with the Giants was a below 60% year. Et. al. All unacceptable years according to these guys? lol

But we all of course want our QB to complete 100% of his passes. What fan wouldnt?

Completion percentage doesnt tell me anything about true production, however. So more is needed.