Dallas Cowboys QB Trey Lance Thread

Originally posted by CharlieSheen:

Originally posted by JoseCortez:
Mobile qbs who work from the pocket and running qbs who have no clue how to play from the pocket like are 2 different players.

And kaep could punch it in when it counted because he sucked from the pocket. But you know who likely would have? Alex Smith.

Pocket passers that can't use the whole field get eatin' alive in the playoffs. They are worse to have than a running QB like Lamar

Because Lamar has been so effective in the playoffs.

And now you're comparing an elite running qb to mediocre pocket passers. Got it.



Even Vrabel pulled Malik Willis yesterday because all he was doing was running around like a fool yesterday and not playing the qb position. To be a successful qb you have to develop as a pocket passer in this league. It's clear

Originally posted by JoseCortez:
Because Lamar has been so effective in the playoffs.

And now you're comparing an elite running qb to mediocre pocket passers. Got it.

I know this might shake up your whole world,...but did you know that elite running QBs can be pocket passers as well? It's not necessarily a versus there,...unless by "pocket passers" you really mean "immobile passers."

Originally posted by JoseCortez:
Because Lamar has been so effective in the playoffs.

And now you're comparing an elite running qb to mediocre pocket passers. Got it.



Even Vrabel pulled Malik Willis yesterday because all he was doing was running around like a fool yesterday and not playing the qb position. To be a successful qb you have to develop as a pocket passer in this league. It's clear

Why can't you do both? Josh Allen ran the ball over 120X last yr. He's not an "elite" runner. I wouldn't even say he's an "elite" pocket passer. He's just a f**king good football player. Guys like Lawrence, Herbert, Hurts, Mahomes, prime Wilson are all threats on the ground and aren't "elite" runners like Jackson. How many games did you watch Wilson run for a 1st down on 3rd down vs SF? It was frustrating as s**t watching that happen all the time. Mahomes getting an extra 1st down or two a game with his feet is huge.

Why is adding another tool to the tool belt such a problem for people in here? Dude isn't gonna be a Jedi pocket passer right now...that takes years of football to master. Use his god given ability to extend plays when needed. Let him use his arm talent. Give him easy reads to develop and learn. This league has changed and going forward you gotta be able to do both now. The days of pure in the pocket play only is in the rear view mirror, the kids coming up into college aren't just that anymore. You're gonna have to be able to do MORE now and the league is making it that way. Like Kyle said the goal is having a guy like Brees/Jackson.

I won't be shocked if Lance has a similar (but a little better) 1st yr as a starter like Hurts had last yr.

600 yards on the ground on say 110 rushing attempts 8 rushing TDs. 61% comp, 480 passing attempts for 3,700 yards 26 TDs 14 INTS

I mean over 4K total yards and over 30 total TDs in his first yr starting wouldn't be awful at all.

Kyle Shanahan drafted Trey Lance because, first and foremost, he believes that Trey can become an efficient pocket passer. If Kyle didn't believe that, Trey would not have been drafted by the 49ers. That should be very obvious to every 49er fan who has watched a Kyle Shanahan run offense.

However, if all Kyle wanted was a pure pocket passer, Mac Jones most likely would have been the pick. Instead, Kyle drafted a duel threat QB. You don't draft a duel threat QB if you never plan to utilize that second threat. I don't believe Kyle will run Trey into the ground or anything but I see Trey carrying the ball 2-3 times a game on designed runs plus he'll have another 2-3 runs a game on scrambles. That equals out to be about 68-102 carries in a season.

This is the reality of it whether fans like it or not. I say, sit back and enjoy the show. This season should be fun and very exciting to watch.

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by JoseCortez:
Because Lamar has been so effective in the playoffs.

And now you're comparing an elite running qb to mediocre pocket passers. Got it.

I know this might shake up your whole world,...but did you know that elite running QBs can be pocket passers as well? It's not necessarily a versus there,...unless by "pocket passers" you really mean "immobile passers."

That's what I'm saying. You can't just be a Lamar and hope to be successful. You have to develop as a pocket passer. That's why Josh Allen had been so successful, he has really developed from the pocket. His running ability is now an added benefit. Not his primary attribute.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by JoseCortez:
Because Lamar has been so effective in the playoffs.

And now you're comparing an elite running qb to mediocre pocket passers. Got it.



Even Vrabel pulled Malik Willis yesterday because all he was doing was running around like a fool yesterday and not playing the qb position. To be a successful qb you have to develop as a pocket passer in this league. It's clear

Why can't you do both? Josh Allen ran the ball over 120X last yr. He's not an "elite" runner. I wouldn't even say he's an "elite" pocket passer. He's just a f**king good football player. Guys like Lawrence, Herbert, Hurts, Mahomes, prime Wilson are all threats on the ground and aren't "elite" runners like Jackson. How many games did you watch Wilson run for a 1st down on 3rd down vs SF? It was frustrating as s**t watching that happen all the time. Mahomes getting an extra 1st down or two a game with his feet is huge.

Why is adding another tool to the tool belt such a problem for people in here? Dude isn't gonna be a Jedi pocket passer right now...that takes years of football to master. Use his god given ability to extend plays when needed. Let him use his arm talent. Give him easy reads to develop and learn. This league has changed and going forward you gotta be able to do both now. The days of pure in the pocket play only is in the rear view mirror, the kids coming up into college aren't just that anymore. You're gonna have to be able to do MORE now and the league is making it that way. Like Kyle said the goal is having a guy like Brees/Jackson.

I won't be shocked if Lance has a similar (but a little better) 1st yr as a starter like Hurts had last yr.

600 yards on the ground on say 110 rushing attempts 8 rushing TDs. 61% comp, 480 passing attempts for 3,700 yards 26 TDs 14 INTS

I mean over 4K total yards and over 30 total TDs in his first yr starting wouldn't be awful at all.

I agree that this is a decent outcome and realistic. That said we're discussing a 2nd round QB and one who was drafted #3 overall that cost 3 total 1st rd picks. At some point we have to discuss two outcomes or perspectives. 1 is we spent too much on Lance unless he becomes Mahomes 2.0. Safe to say that's unlikely. 2 is this someone we're gonna even want to resign in 3-4 years? I'll answer that with a maybe.

I hated our reality with Jimmy. I never liked the trade before or after the draft. 5 QB's. Let's just see if he's not the 5th best, drafted 3 overall. That'll be a huge win if he ends up 2/3 amongst the 5.

What do you deem to be successful? Was Jimmy ever successful here?

Is being only the 2nd unanimous MVP considered to be successful?




I mean....whatever successful is...make the rules for it so we can measure it.

We essentially traded one of 5, a replacement for McGlinchey, and another starter on an affordable contract for another one of 5 that may be worse. Trey has a lot to do the justify the trade. The big difference is we have a team who can support him better then the others.

Last year's Super Bowls QBs had a total of 150 total rushing yards. The combine rushing yards for the 4 conference championship QBs was 581 yards where Mahomes had 67% of those yards. Don't take this as me saying Trey running is not going to be a huge factor but this nonsense that pocket QBs are irrelevant is a flat out wrong. QBss who are pocket first win SB's. And I personally consider Mahomes and Russel pocket passers first with the ability to stretch plays when needed. Guys who don't have 3-4 designed runs a game.

Last 10 Super Bowl winners
Stafford
Mahomes
Brady
Foles
Brady
Manning
Brady
Wilson
Flacco
Eli

Originally posted by TreyDeyEeyDey:
Last year's Super Bowls QBs had a total of 150 total rushing yards.

More anecdotes. Nothing concrete or meaningful.

Originally posted by TreyDeyEeyDey:
And I personally consider Mahomes and Russel pocket passers first with the ability to stretch plays when needed. Guys who don't have 3-4 designed runs a game.

Well yeah that's kinda the rule. Once the guys win a SB just put them in the "pocket passer" category even tho none of these QBs are running the option game after game.

Just meaningless categorizations going nowhere fast.

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by TreyDeyEeyDey:
Last year's Super Bowls QBs had a total of 150 total rushing yards.

More anecdotes. Nothing concrete or meaningful.

Originally posted by TreyDeyEeyDey:
And I personally consider Mahomes and Russel pocket passers first with the ability to stretch plays when needed. Guys who don't have 3-4 designed runs a game.

Well yeah that's kinda the rule. Once the guys win a SB just put them in the "pocket passer" category even tho none of these QBs are running the option game after game.

Just meaningless categorizations going nowhere fast.

They are pocket passers lol. Are you saying Burrows and Stafford are running QBs?! lolol. That's hilarious.

Tom Brady and Payton Manning are running QBs

These guys are 100% pocket passers. They are not running the option because they are pocket passers. Lol

Originally posted by 49ers808:
I want to believe that what we saw against the Cardinals was because Trey himself was hurt and still couldn't throw it well.

it was because he didn't know the offense yet. He got hurt in that game, running the ball. We should keep him running to a bare minimum, because qbs who finish runs like fullbacks do get hurt more often, regardless of what people are trying to pass off. Trey isn't a sliding type either, he is a try and dive forward type. The last thing we need is Trey getting injured all the time because he won't get out of bounds or hasn't learned to slide. I wouldn't want to have to rely on Sudfield or Purdy at all.

Originally posted by TreyDeyEeyDey:
They are pocket passers lol. Are you saying Burrows and Stafford are running QBs?!

"Running QB" -- the term doesn't even make any sense. It's a forced categorization. I think I've made that point clear.

Why the obsession with tags and names when you could spend more time talking about their games?

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by JoseCortez:
Because Lamar has been so effective in the playoffs.

And now you're comparing an elite running qb to mediocre pocket passers. Got it.



Even Vrabel pulled Malik Willis yesterday because all he was doing was running around like a fool yesterday and not playing the qb position. To be a successful qb you have to develop as a pocket passer in this league. It's clear

Why can't you do both? Josh Allen ran the ball over 120X last yr. He's not an "elite" runner. I wouldn't even say he's an "elite" pocket passer. He's just a f**king good football player. Guys like Lawrence, Herbert, Hurts, Mahomes, prime Wilson are all threats on the ground and aren't "elite" runners like Jackson. How many games did you watch Wilson run for a 1st down on 3rd down vs SF? It was frustrating as s**t watching that happen all the time. Mahomes getting an extra 1st down or two a game with his feet is huge.

Why is adding another tool to the tool belt such a problem for people in here? Dude isn't gonna be a Jedi pocket passer right now...that takes years of football to master. Use his god given ability to extend plays when needed. Let him use his arm talent. Give him easy reads to develop and learn. This league has changed and going forward you gotta be able to do both now. The days of pure in the pocket play only is in the rear view mirror, the kids coming up into college aren't just that anymore. You're gonna have to be able to do MORE now and the league is making it that way. Like Kyle said the goal is having a guy like Brees/Jackson.

I won't be shocked if Lance has a similar (but a little better) 1st yr as a starter like Hurts had last yr.

600 yards on the ground on say 110 rushing attempts 8 rushing TDs. 61% comp, 480 passing attempts for 3,700 yards 26 TDs 14 INTS

I mean over 4K total yards and over 30 total TDs in his first yr starting wouldn't be awful at all.

I'd feel better about Trey running if he'd learn to get out of bounds or slide. Wilson and Kyler were baseball players, so sliding comes natural to them, Trey is prone to dive forward, which none of us in our right mind want to see. Qb's who put their heads down and plow into contact are just asking to get hurt.

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by TreyDeyEeyDey:
They are pocket passers lol. Are you saying Burrows and Stafford are running QBs?!

"Running QB" -- the term doesn't even make any sense. It's a forced categorization. I think I've made that point clear.

Why the obsession with tags and names when you could spend more time talking about their games?

Sorry "mobile" QBs. Wrong word usage. My point 100% still stands that pocket passers aren't a dying breed like claimed above. You're the one making an anecdotal argument that has nothing to do with anything besides to change the topic.