Dallas Cowboys QB Trey Lance Thread

Originally posted by 49ersRing:
Honestly, you may be right. Kyle has done a worse job than Mike Nolan so far when it comes to managing his young QB's development. I can't imagine there is a first round QB in recent NFL history that has ever received less support from the coaches, the front office, the locker room, and the fanbase than Trey. I hope he gets a chance somewhere where his coaches don't try to sabotage him and teammates and fans don't celebrate him getting injured. The loudest cheer of the day came when the fans saw the cart coming out onto the field for him.

Oh, that's b******t.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
Well, some things we did/do know. QB's running into big, mean and violent defenders definitely increases chance of injury.

Trey was drafted for his ability to force 11 on 11 football with his running ability. That's been covered by Kyle 800 times. I talked about how Kyle brought Trey in for this and people interpreted their criticisms of Jimmy as reasons Kyle wanted Trey.

Treys injury sucks because the offense Kyle spent the entire off-season planning for a Trey Lance offense and Trey needed the reps, badly.

Jimmy hasn't had any off-season with the team, hasn't even had practice reps with anyone other than PS and 4th stringers and will now have to lead an offense rebuilding it's playbook as 2/3 of our RB's weren't here last year or our IOL in their positions as well as our 4th and 5th receivers.

It's only week 2, we're #1nin the division and we still have a highly talented team with a QB that we've ended in the top and top 4 in the league so it's not like 2018 where we were stuck with Beathard/Mullens.

The fact that this was legit our plan is baffling. I thought we drafted TL to be a FQB who can kill teams from the pocket.. maybe give us that off schedule no one is open threat.. you see Mahomes run 7 yards and hold the ball out as he's going out of bounds all the time.. stuff like that.

To think great football minds sat around and thought it wise to spend three ones to use their QB like an RB.. when we can't keep RBs healthy to save our bleeping bleeps .. lord ..

We were never going to be the Chiefs or the Chargers amd throw it around a ton.
In 1994 Mike Shanahan had peak Steve Young with the #1 offense in the league. We were 18th in passing attempts and 6th in rushing attempts.

In 1997 Mike had HOF Elway, the #1 offense they were 20th in passing attempts, 4th in rushing, if I remember right.
In 98, 21st in passing attempts. 2nd in rushing attempts.

In 2005 the Broncos went 13-3. They were 25th in passing attempts, 2nd in rushing attempts.

In 2012 WAS was 30th in passing attempts and 3rd in rushing attempts.

2013 and 14 Falcons were 3rd in passing attempts and 32nd and 27th in rushing attempts.
2016, under Kyle they were 26th in passing attempts and 12th in rushing.

2019 we were 30th in pass attempts 2nd in rushing.
2021 30th in pass attempts and 6th in rushing.

People have extrapolated our pass attempts rankings to Jimmy. It's a Shanahan thing. We were never and will never be a pass heavy team under Kyle and win. We only pass it a lot when the run game isn't working AND we're behind.

Those who thought Trey was brought in to throw the ball around didn't understand the Shanahan system.

Remember too, in 1994 there were only 28 teams and in 97 and 98 there were 30 so those rankings are even lower than they first appear.

I think 49erFaithful6 meant that he expected Lance to operate from the pocket as a passer with running being secondary to that, rather than running him 13 times a game. And I agree with him.

Extend plays, move the pocket, playaction into a bootleg....things like that. Not running between the tackles double digit times a game.

My guess is that Shanahan wanted to get him more experience and as he grows open up the offense more. But make no mistake: Shanahan wants him to run and run on a regular basis because he is still after that "position-less offense."

I just struggle with this. Not sure if anyone remembers Denard Robinson but he was a freak. 4.3 speed QB in the big 10 he went in round 5 as a running back. Why not use him as the position-less QB. I'm not saying use exactly him.. but you can find guys who are elite running QBs and NFL teams don't value their throw traits.. you don't need to blow 3 ones on that.. you can get that all over the draft and if something happens it's not setting back the franchise severely. Malik Willis can run his behind off and would not have cost anything close to 3 ones.

You know why. (1) Jimmy's contract and the expiring ones to come (2) the belief that this year's QB class isn't good (3) the fact that Lance had under center experience. We DON'T KNOW how good Lance would have been this year. WE DON'T. YOU DON'T, NO ONE does. All we know is that in a game with decent weather he was doing okay and had the team ahead, and the offense had the ball.

THAT'S SIMPLY NOT ENOUGH, combined with the monsoon game, to know what he is.

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Now a very, very big long shot. Ultra high bust potential. It is what it is guys.

* Missed season Covid. Not his fault but it happened in College.

* Year 1 doesn't play much. Missed season.

* Year 2 ineffective, struggles, loses 1st game. Early 2nd game down and injured for the season. Lost year.

Now you have 3 lost seasons in a row. For a guy who struggles with reading the field, accuracy, throwing mechanics. He has a major injury to his wheels. He's going to come back faster and more dynamic after all of this? He wasn't even the better athlete compared to Fields before. Certainly not Lamar Jackson. In NFL history with this start can you think of anybody who becomes the next Mahomes or Brady or Rodgers? I don't think there are any ever.

Definitely we gave up too much for him. It's highly likely he is a long shot to work out now. It's unfortunate about the injury. I never want to see somebody get hurt. But if you look at it realistically this is such a terrible situation now.

He was looking pretty good this game until the injury. The team would have won. He would have learned.

And it's pretty hysterical you think one season ending injury means it's over for his career

He didn't look good this season or ever so far. Actually no. He hasn't shown anything. That said I feel bad for the guy getting hurt. But major long shot now. He missed 3 seasons by the time he will "start" again. If he ever will. The better guy is starting right now. It's not Trey.

He looked okay this game. He looked okay the Texans game. You're out of your mind.

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Now a very, very big long shot. Ultra high bust potential. It is what it is guys.

* Missed season Covid. Not his fault but it happened in College.

* Year 1 doesn't play much. Missed season.

* Year 2 ineffective, struggles, loses 1st game. Early 2nd game down and injured for the season. Lost year.

Now you have 3 lost seasons in a row. For a guy who struggles with reading the field, accuracy, throwing mechanics. He has a major injury to his wheels. He's going to come back faster and more dynamic after all of this? He wasn't even the better athlete compared to Fields before. Certainly not Lamar Jackson. In NFL history with this start can you think of anybody who becomes the next Mahomes or Brady or Rodgers? I don't think there are any ever.

Definitely we gave up too much for him. It's highly likely he is a long shot to work out now. It's unfortunate about the injury. I never want to see somebody get hurt. But if you look at it realistically this is such a terrible situation now.

He was looking pretty good this game until the injury. The team would have won. He would have learned.

And it's pretty hysterical you think one season ending injury means it's over for his career

He didn't look good this season or ever so far. Actually no. He hasn't shown anything. That said I feel bad for the guy getting hurt. But major long shot now. He missed 3 seasons by the time he will "start" again. If he ever will. The better guy is starting right now. It's not Trey.

Yeah gotta say it's not looking good. For a guy that desperately needs reps, games, practice, reviewing film of all this throws, he will be spending a bunch of time with his foot in a boot. I can only wonder if the thought ever crosses KS's mind as TL is a weekly inactive.. that maybe.. just maybe.. he effed up here with how we deployed our valuable asset. It's not different sentiment that when we ran JG into KC's defense before the ink dried on his deal. Can we not fine these guys if they don't slide or take the boundary when it is there? Can we not coach them up on this?

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

Originally posted by Afrikan:

Originally posted by BangBang49er:
Maybe Trey is just flat out a walking injury. Dude has been pretty much injured his entire stay here between the finger, knee and now ankle.

I know you have a certain type account... but I'll say maybe we should trade Trey. Move on. Kyle is determined to keep doing the same thing with Trey going forward, as he's said in his presser today. An injury will just happen again.

So it would be good for Trey. He could go to another team that would just use him in a less wreckless manner.

Would be good for Kyle (especially if we never get another QB again that is explosive), so Kyle can stick to Jimmy G type offensive approach.

Be good for the fans long term.

We won't get the same return we gave up, BUT we'll have a starter and consistency on offense. If Jimmy comes back on the cheap, or we roll with Purdy...and draft some other Whi... er...Conventional QB!

Honestly, you may be right. Kyle has done a worse job than Mike Nolan so far when it comes to managing his young QB's development. I can't imagine there is a first round QB in recent NFL history that has ever received less support from the coaches, the front office, the locker room, and the fanbase than Trey. I hope he gets a chance somewhere where his coaches don't try to sabotage him and teammates and fans don't celebrate him getting injured. The loudest cheer of the day came when the fans saw the cart coming out onto the field for him.

I see you're trying to be funny...Front office and coaches have been fine... Locker room has been fine... fans have been fine (besides a few vocal Jimmy/Alex diehards online).

so what do you see happening next year when Kyle sticks to what he said today?.... runs Trey up the middle many times per game... in a 17 game season.

I mean for the folks who try to BS themselves and say this was a freak accident.... how do yall see our season going next year? Trey plays every game?

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by Jcool:

Originally posted by tjd808185:
I think the question we should be asking is why is Tua throwing for 400 yards and 6 tds while we're running the ball 11/14 plays and using our qb as a rb, then our best receiver as a rb too. Kyle is obviously one of the best offensive minds in football but geez it's not hard. Get some speed and toss it down the field.

Tua threw for 400 yards and 6 TDs because Miami was down 35-14 in the 3rd quarter.

I think the point is that's the way the NFL is going. The rules are more friendly than ever for pass offense. This is reflected in QB metrics like rating which go up annually. Yet here we are the one team in the NFL investing 3 ones in QB power.

I truly don't think John and Kyle drafted Trey to be a power runner. I think this year they were running him a little more because of where he was in his development. I think if he started the entire season you would see substantial improvement each week.

Were/are any of you supervisors or managers with people under you? Have you ever had to manage someone for 2+ years? Would you say that the people you supervise and essentially mentored became better workers and people over time? I think we were seeing that with Trey. He's that raw employee you got and year 1 you were like I dunno about this guy. Then boom he turns it around and you start winning awards

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Now a very, very big long shot. Ultra high bust potential. It is what it is guys.

* Missed season Covid. Not his fault but it happened in College.

* Year 1 doesn't play much. Missed season.

* Year 2 ineffective, struggles, loses 1st game. Early 2nd game down and injured for the season. Lost year.

Now you have 3 lost seasons in a row. For a guy who struggles with reading the field, accuracy, throwing mechanics. He has a major injury to his wheels. He's going to come back faster and more dynamic after all of this? He wasn't even the better athlete compared to Fields before. Certainly not Lamar Jackson. In NFL history with this start can you think of anybody who becomes the next Mahomes or Brady or Rodgers? I don't think there are any ever.

Definitely we gave up too much for him. It's highly likely he is a long shot to work out now. It's unfortunate about the injury. I never want to see somebody get hurt. But if you look at it realistically this is such a terrible situation now.

He was looking pretty good this game until the injury. The team would have won. He would have learned.

And it's pretty hysterical you think one season ending injury means it's over for his career

He didn't look good this season or ever so far. Actually no. He hasn't shown anything. That said I feel bad for the guy getting hurt. But major long shot now. He missed 3 seasons by the time he will "start" again. If he ever will. The better guy is starting right now. It's not Trey.

I doubt that. Nothing you've posted recently has any hint of sincerity.

Only cowards would kick someone when they're down. Making definitive statements/projections about a player who cannot defend themselves is exactly that. At least Jimmy had multiple years to prove his worth. It's impossible for some of these posters to admit they don't know something so they throw our garbage takes like this.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Yeah gotta say it's not looking good. For a guy that desperately needs reps, games, practice, reviewing film of all this throws, he will be spending a bunch of time with his foot in a boot. I can only wonder if the thought ever crosses KS's mind as TL is a weekly inactive.. that maybe.. just maybe.. he effed up here with how we deployed our valuable asset. It's not different sentiment that when we ran JG into KC's defense before the ink dried on his deal. Can we not fine these guys if they don't slide or take the boundary when it is there? Can we not coach them up on this?

I just watched the Dolphins-Ravens highlights and Jackson was powering into the defensive line like every three plays it seemed. It's just they way QB is evolving to be played, mainly because OL cannot be trusted to give clean pockets like they could in the 80s-00s passing boom anymore. The days of the QB being solely a pocket passer is mostly over.

Originally posted by Afrikan:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

Originally posted by Afrikan:

Originally posted by BangBang49er:
Maybe Trey is just flat out a walking injury. Dude has been pretty much injured his entire stay here between the finger, knee and now ankle.

I know you have a certain type account... but I'll say maybe we should trade Trey. Move on. Kyle is determined to keep doing the same thing with Trey going forward, as he's said in his presser today. An injury will just happen again.

So it would be good for Trey. He could go to another team that would just use him in a less wreckless manner.

Would be good for Kyle (especially if we never get another QB again that is explosive), so Kyle can stick to Jimmy G type offensive approach.

Be good for the fans long term.

We won't get the same return we gave up, BUT we'll have a starter and consistency on offense. If Jimmy comes back on the cheap, or we roll with Purdy...and draft some other Whi... er...Conventional QB!

Honestly, you may be right. Kyle has done a worse job than Mike Nolan so far when it comes to managing his young QB's development. I can't imagine there is a first round QB in recent NFL history that has ever received less support from the coaches, the front office, the locker room, and the fanbase than Trey. I hope he gets a chance somewhere where his coaches don't try to sabotage him and teammates and fans don't celebrate him getting injured. The loudest cheer of the day came when the fans saw the cart coming out onto the field for him.

I see you're trying to be funny... so what do you see happening next year when Kyle sticks to what he said today?.... runs Trey up the middle many times per game... in a 17 game season.

I mean for the folks who try to BS themselves and say this was a freak accident.... how do yall see our season going next year? Trey plays every game?

No, I wasn't trying to be funny. It's hard to imagine more of a clusterf**k of QB development and support than what we've seen. Everyone said this was the best situation for a QB to go to, but it actually appears to have been one of the worst.

Originally posted by Silky:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by Jcool:

Originally posted by tjd808185:
I think the question we should be asking is why is Tua throwing for 400 yards and 6 tds while we're running the ball 11/14 plays and using our qb as a rb, then our best receiver as a rb too. Kyle is obviously one of the best offensive minds in football but geez it's not hard. Get some speed and toss it down the field.

Tua threw for 400 yards and 6 TDs because Miami was down 35-14 in the 3rd quarter.

I think the point is that's the way the NFL is going. The rules are more friendly than ever for pass offense. This is reflected in QB metrics like rating which go up annually. Yet here we are the one team in the NFL investing 3 ones in QB power.

I truly don't think John and Kyle drafted Trey to be a power runner. I think this year they were running him a little more because of where he was in his development. I think if he started the entire season you would see substantial improvement each week.

Were/are any of you supervisors or managers with people under you? Have you ever had to manage someone for 2+ years? Would you say that the people you supervise and essentially mentored became better workers and people over time? I think we were seeing that with Trey. He's that raw employee you got and year 1 you were like I dunno about this guy. Then boom he turns it around and you start winning awards

100% he was drafted for QB power. That and the fakes off of it. This is what NDSU did so well and it's what Shanahan dreamed of.

Originally posted by 49ersRing:
No, I wasn't trying to be funny. It's hard to imagine more of a clusterf**k of QB development and support than what we've seen. Everyone said this was the best situation for a QB to go to, but it actually appears to have been one of the worst.

With our fanbase playing QB for the 49ers is always the worst situation in the league. No fan base hates their starting QB more than 49er fans.

Originally posted by Silky:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by Jcool:

Originally posted by tjd808185:
I think the question we should be asking is why is Tua throwing for 400 yards and 6 tds while we're running the ball 11/14 plays and using our qb as a rb, then our best receiver as a rb too. Kyle is obviously one of the best offensive minds in football but geez it's not hard. Get some speed and toss it down the field.

Tua threw for 400 yards and 6 TDs because Miami was down 35-14 in the 3rd quarter.

I think the point is that's the way the NFL is going. The rules are more friendly than ever for pass offense. This is reflected in QB metrics like rating which go up annually. Yet here we are the one team in the NFL investing 3 ones in QB power.

I truly don't think John and Kyle drafted Trey to be a power runner. I think this year they were running him a little more because of where he was in his development. I think if he started the entire season you would see substantial improvement each week.

Were/are any of you supervisors or managers with people under you? Have you ever had to manage someone for 2+ years? Would you say that the people you supervise and essentially mentored became better workers and people over time? I think we were seeing that with Trey. He's that raw employee you got and year 1 you were like I dunno about this guy. Then boom he turns it around and you start winning awards

Every time they run him his chances of getting injured go up. If the game plan was to run him 15 times a game…maybe we need a new game plan. I don't think Kyle knows how to groom a QB.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Now a very, very big long shot. Ultra high bust potential. It is what it is guys.

* Missed season Covid. Not his fault but it happened in College.

* Year 1 doesn't play much. Missed season.

* Year 2 ineffective, struggles, loses 1st game. Early 2nd game down and injured for the season. Lost year.

Now you have 3 lost seasons in a row. For a guy who struggles with reading the field, accuracy, throwing mechanics. He has a major injury to his wheels. He's going to come back faster and more dynamic after all of this? He wasn't even the better athlete compared to Fields before. Certainly not Lamar Jackson. In NFL history with this start can you think of anybody who becomes the next Mahomes or Brady or Rodgers? I don't think there are any ever.

Definitely we gave up too much for him. It's highly likely he is a long shot to work out now. It's unfortunate about the injury. I never want to see somebody get hurt. But if you look at it realistically this is such a terrible situation now.

He was looking pretty good this game until the injury. The team would have won. He would have learned.

And it's pretty hysterical you think one season ending injury means it's over for his career

He didn't look good this season or ever so far. Actually no. He hasn't shown anything. That said I feel bad for the guy getting hurt. But major long shot now. He missed 3 seasons by the time he will "start" again. If he ever will. The better guy is starting right now. It's not Trey.

Yeah gotta say it's not looking good. For a guy that desperately needs reps, games, practice, reviewing film of all this throws, he will be spending a bunch of time with his foot in a boot. I can only wonder if the thought ever crosses KS's mind as TL is a weekly inactive.. that maybe.. just maybe.. he effed up here with how we deployed our valuable asset. It's not different sentiment that when we ran JG into KC's defense before the ink dried on his deal. Can we not fine these guys if they don't slide or take the boundary when it is there? Can we not coach them up on this?

That's right. I agree.

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by Silky:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by Jcool:

Originally posted by tjd808185:
I think the question we should be asking is why is Tua throwing for 400 yards and 6 tds while we're running the ball 11/14 plays and using our qb as a rb, then our best receiver as a rb too. Kyle is obviously one of the best offensive minds in football but geez it's not hard. Get some speed and toss it down the field.

Tua threw for 400 yards and 6 TDs because Miami was down 35-14 in the 3rd quarter.

I think the point is that's the way the NFL is going. The rules are more friendly than ever for pass offense. This is reflected in QB metrics like rating which go up annually. Yet here we are the one team in the NFL investing 3 ones in QB power.

I truly don't think John and Kyle drafted Trey to be a power runner. I think this year they were running him a little more because of where he was in his development. I think if he started the entire season you would see substantial improvement each week.

Were/are any of you supervisors or managers with people under you? Have you ever had to manage someone for 2+ years? Would you say that the people you supervise and essentially mentored became better workers and people over time? I think we were seeing that with Trey. He's that raw employee you got and year 1 you were like I dunno about this guy. Then boom he turns it around and you start winning awards

100% he was drafted for QB power. That and the fakes off of it. This is what NDSU did so well and it's what Shanahan dreamed of.

Then Kyle needs to trade Trey for Taysom Hill.

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by Silky:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by Jcool:

Originally posted by tjd808185:
I think the question we should be asking is why is Tua throwing for 400 yards and 6 tds while we're running the ball 11/14 plays and using our qb as a rb, then our best receiver as a rb too. Kyle is obviously one of the best offensive minds in football but geez it's not hard. Get some speed and toss it down the field.

Tua threw for 400 yards and 6 TDs because Miami was down 35-14 in the 3rd quarter.

I think the point is that's the way the NFL is going. The rules are more friendly than ever for pass offense. This is reflected in QB metrics like rating which go up annually. Yet here we are the one team in the NFL investing 3 ones in QB power.

I truly don't think John and Kyle drafted Trey to be a power runner. I think this year they were running him a little more because of where he was in his development. I think if he started the entire season you would see substantial improvement each week.

Were/are any of you supervisors or managers with people under you? Have you ever had to manage someone for 2+ years? Would you say that the people you supervise and essentially mentored became better workers and people over time? I think we were seeing that with Trey. He's that raw employee you got and year 1 you were like I dunno about this guy. Then boom he turns it around and you start winning awards

100% he was drafted for QB power. That and the fakes off of it. This is what NDSU did so well and it's what Shanahan dreamed of.

If that really is the case it's the dumbest decision in the history of the San Francisco 49ers that I am aware of