Dallas Cowboys QB Trey Lance Thread

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by thl408:
Just rewatched the fateful play. Not a typical zone read with inside zone blocking and the QB keeper means the QB runs to the edge. I don't know what it's called.

We used to call that jet counter read. Pretty common in high school fb.

Okay thanks. It's been dialed up multiple times by the 49ers with Lance.

Its QB counter Trey, all irony aside... backside T & G pull, mesh is not a read but there to hold the backside DE from crashing down when he sees the pullers, playside blocks down, TL doesn't read because if he did the slow playing end would have caused him to give the ball to the back.... it's a designed QB run

Originally posted by Sickaa:

Originally posted by ninerfan4life:
Worst part of all this by the time Lance plays again it will be 4 years since he last played a full season

His devolvement as took a huge set back with this Injury and now we'll be heading Into 2023 with a question mark at QB. It'll be even more of a concern next year since Jimmy won't be here backing up Lance.

It's a year postponement. It sucks, but it is what it is. I don't see how it's all that different than where he was starting this season, though. He won't suddenly forget how to play the game. Assuming his ankle heals like most broken ankles heal, it will be a repeat of this pre-season and season start in terms of needed game reps to progress. Though I guess one could argue he might make some minimal strides in his mental game from being in the QB room another year.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

Originally posted by NCommand:
With JD and Thl on here, I loved JD's breakdown on how Trey aids the running game. The issue is his runs are im volume and into the teeth of a very large and active front 7 and in the teeth of the defense, there isn't a whole lot of space to slide or protect yourself.

And was it needed? We had 189 yards rushing on 4.2 ypc. Wilson alone was averaging 4.7 ypc.

113 of those rushing yards came when Trey was in at QB at almost 9 YPC. Only 76 yards rushing the rest of the game at 2.3 YPC.

That shows what a mobile QB can do. When the D has to account for the QB it makes it a little easier for the other backs.

It doesn't mean he actually needs to run at that volume or into the front 7. He simply needs to add a threat of it. He had 13 carries last week on 54 yards. No defense is game planning around that "threat."

That's what TDP is for.

So what's the right amount of carries? Five? Eight? He could have gotten injured on his first carry or while standing in the pocket.

He had 13 last week. That threat would last all season. It's on tape. But no defense is preparing for that threat outside the T's. It was just a matter of time IMHO.

Originally posted by riverrunzthruit:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by thl408:
Just rewatched the fateful play. Not a typical zone read with inside zone blocking and the QB keeper means the QB runs to the edge. I don't know what it's called.

We used to call that jet counter read. Pretty common in high school fb.

Okay thanks. It's been dialed up multiple times by the 49ers with Lance.

Its QB counter Trey, all irony aside... backside T & G pull, mesh is not a read but there to hold the backside DE from crashing down when he sees the pullers, playside blocks down, TL doesn't read because if he did the slow playing end would have caused him to give the ball to the back.... it's a designed QB run

There is an option to give to the RB on that play. They called this play vs HOU in 2021. I remember because on that HOU play, Lance gave it to the RB when he should have kept.

Originally posted by RonMexico:

Originally posted by jcs:

Originally posted by Heroism:
49ers dialed up the counter version for Trey; Ravens ran the power version for Lamar. One guy breaks off a long run TD, and the other guy breaks his ankle.

Lamar is 1 of 1. WHAT A RUN. pic.twitter.com/s7AqE68jmU

— Robert Griffin III (@RGIII) September 18, 2022

TBF Lamar has 4.3 speed and isn't stiff.

Trey looks slower than I thought he would be when running, not sure if it's him being hesitant or he's just not AS fast as I thought

He's not that fast. Not slow, but nowhere near as fast as Lamar.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by jcs:

Originally posted by TheWooLick:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

Originally posted by NCommand:
With JD and Thl on here, I loved JD's breakdown on how Trey aids the running game. The issue is his runs are im volume and into the teeth of a very large and active front 7 and in the teeth of the defense, there isn't a whole lot of space to slide or protect yourself.

And was it needed? We had 189 yards rushing on 4.2 ypc. Wilson alone was averaging 4.7 ypc.

113 of those rushing yards came when Trey was in at QB at almost 9 YPC. Only 76 yards rushing the rest of the game at 2.3 YPC.

That shows what a mobile QB can do. When the D has to account for the QB it makes it a little easier for the other backs.

It doesn't mean he actually needs to run at that volume or into the front 7. He simply needs to add a threat of it. He had 13 carries last week on 54 yards. No defense is game planning around that "threat."

That's what TDP is for.

So what's the right amount of carries? Five? Eight? He could have gotten injured on his first carry or while standing in the pocket.

He may not be built for any amount of designed runs.

Henhurt his knee last year and missed games.

Kyle's BFF called it earlier this season. Trey doesn't protect himself and takes too many unnessary hits. In college he could get away with it being the biggest, strongest and fastest but that play style in the NFL has consequences.

Yeah Lance has a problem with not protecting himself when he can. I'm not referring specifically about the play where he got injured, just in general. He's like RG3 in that way.
I never had a problem with Kyle using Lance as a runner but I do cringe every time Lance would lower his pads as he's about to get tackled. Slide feet first, or go headfirst but 1 second sooner while getting 1-2 less yards would be fine alternative options.

I think on most of the designed runs up the middle, sliding wasn't really an option with so much traffic.

Sliding works in the open field.

The worst part about the injury is that his growing pains will be next season instead of this year. Was hoping to see his growing pains be over with sooner than later. So we are just prolonging the inevitable, unless he isn't the QB next year. The thing that sucks about the ankle injury is that he can't even work on his throwing motion. Hopefully after it heals up he will work with a QB expert. If I'm Kyle I am calling Beck or Palmer and take advantage of this extra year of development. Also maybe this will give Kyle a change of heart and decide that using Lance as a run first QB isn't the best idea

Originally posted by libertyforever:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by jcs:

Originally posted by TheWooLick:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

Originally posted by NCommand:
With JD and Thl on here, I loved JD's breakdown on how Trey aids the running game. The issue is his runs are im volume and into the teeth of a very large and active front 7 and in the teeth of the defense, there isn't a whole lot of space to slide or protect yourself.

And was it needed? We had 189 yards rushing on 4.2 ypc. Wilson alone was averaging 4.7 ypc.

113 of those rushing yards came when Trey was in at QB at almost 9 YPC. Only 76 yards rushing the rest of the game at 2.3 YPC.

That shows what a mobile QB can do. When the D has to account for the QB it makes it a little easier for the other backs.

It doesn't mean he actually needs to run at that volume or into the front 7. He simply needs to add a threat of it. He had 13 carries last week on 54 yards. No defense is game planning around that "threat."

That's what TDP is for.

So what's the right amount of carries? Five? Eight? He could have gotten injured on his first carry or while standing in the pocket.

He may not be built for any amount of designed runs.

Henhurt his knee last year and missed games.

Kyle's BFF called it earlier this season. Trey doesn't protect himself and takes too many unnessary hits. In college he could get away with it being the biggest, strongest and fastest but that play style in the NFL has consequences.

Yeah Lance has a problem with not protecting himself when he can. I'm not referring specifically about the play where he got injured, just in general. He's like RG3 in that way.
I never had a problem with Kyle using Lance as a runner but I do cringe every time Lance would lower his pads as he's about to get tackled. Slide feet first, or go headfirst but 1 second sooner while getting 1-2 less yards would be fine alternative options.

I think on most of the designed runs up the middle, sliding wasn't really an option with so much traffic.

Sliding works in the open field.

bolded above. He takes the mentality of not protecting himself and applies it to all his runs.

Originally posted by captveg:

Originally posted by Sickaa:

Originally posted by ninerfan4life:
Worst part of all this by the time Lance plays again it will be 4 years since he last played a full season

His devolvement as took a huge set back with this Injury and now we'll be heading Into 2023 with a question mark at QB. It'll be even more of a concern next year since Jimmy won't be here backing up Lance.

It's a year postponement. It sucks, but it is what it is. I don't see how it's all that different than where he was starting this season, though. He won't suddenly forget how to play the game. Assuming his ankle heals like most broken ankles heal, it will be a repeat of this pre-season and season start in terms of needed game reps to progress. Though I guess one could argue he might make some minimal strides in his mental game from being in the QB room another year.

The issue I believe arises with his complete lack of experience going back to his college days and only having one compete season of starting college ball played. There is a reason why hofer HCs like Bill Parcels put an emphasis on drafting college qbs with 3-4 years of starting experience. On top of it trey missed out on his final year of play in college because of a pandemic. We never really saw a broad picture of his potential play out in college and drafted him extremely high and in the NFL he's barely going to have any real experience again over his first two pro seasons because of injury. Like it or not this dragging out of his inexperience will begin to bring out the bust label.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by riverrunzthruit:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by thl408:
Just rewatched the fateful play. Not a typical zone read with inside zone blocking and the QB keeper means the QB runs to the edge. I don't know what it's called.

We used to call that jet counter read. Pretty common in high school fb.

Okay thanks. It's been dialed up multiple times by the 49ers with Lance.

Its QB counter Trey, all irony aside... backside T & G pull, mesh is not a read but there to hold the backside DE from crashing down when he sees the pullers, playside blocks down, TL doesn't read because if he did the slow playing end would have caused him to give the ball to the back.... it's a designed QB run

There is an option to give to the RB on that play. They called this play vs HOU in 2021. I remember because on that HOU play, Lance gave it to the RB when he should have kept.

I don't think there was on this variant, that would have left the backside DE unblocked and could have easily tackled the back.

Originally posted by riverrunzthruit:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by riverrunzthruit:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by thl408:
Just rewatched the fateful play. Not a typical zone read with inside zone blocking and the QB keeper means the QB runs to the edge. I don't know what it's called.

We used to call that jet counter read. Pretty common in high school fb.

Okay thanks. It's been dialed up multiple times by the 49ers with Lance.

Its QB counter Trey, all irony aside... backside T & G pull, mesh is not a read but there to hold the backside DE from crashing down when he sees the pullers, playside blocks down, TL doesn't read because if he did the slow playing end would have caused him to give the ball to the back.... it's a designed QB run

There is an option to give to the RB on that play. They called this play vs HOU in 2021. I remember because on that HOU play, Lance gave it to the RB when he should have kept.

I don't think there was on this variant, that would have left the backside DE unblocked and could have easily tackled the back.

Watch the play again. Trust that there is an option to give to the RB. Watch the unblocked DE.

Originally posted by riverrunzthruit:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by riverrunzthruit:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by thl408:
Just rewatched the fateful play. Not a typical zone read with inside zone blocking and the QB keeper means the QB runs to the edge. I don't know what it's called.

We used to call that jet counter read. Pretty common in high school fb.

Okay thanks. It's been dialed up multiple times by the 49ers with Lance.

Its QB counter Trey, all irony aside... backside T & G pull, mesh is not a read but there to hold the backside DE from crashing down when he sees the pullers, playside blocks down, TL doesn't read because if he did the slow playing end would have caused him to give the ball to the back.... it's a designed QB run

There is an option to give to the RB on that play. They called this play vs HOU in 2021. I remember because on that HOU play, Lance gave it to the RB when he should have kept.

I don't think there was on this variant, that would have left the backside DE unblocked and could have easily tackled the back.

This is the same play(Shanahan's own words)

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by jcs:

Originally posted by TheWooLick:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

Originally posted by NCommand:
With JD and Thl on here, I loved JD's breakdown on how Trey aids the running game. The issue is his runs are im volume and into the teeth of a very large and active front 7 and in the teeth of the defense, there isn't a whole lot of space to slide or protect yourself.

And was it needed? We had 189 yards rushing on 4.2 ypc. Wilson alone was averaging 4.7 ypc.

113 of those rushing yards came when Trey was in at QB at almost 9 YPC. Only 76 yards rushing the rest of the game at 2.3 YPC.

That shows what a mobile QB can do. When the D has to account for the QB it makes it a little easier for the other backs.

It doesn't mean he actually needs to run at that volume or into the front 7. He simply needs to add a threat of it. He had 13 carries last week on 54 yards. No defense is game planning around that "threat."

That's what TDP is for.

So what's the right amount of carries? Five? Eight? He could have gotten injured on his first carry or while standing in the pocket.

He may not be built for any amount of designed runs.

Henhurt his knee last year and missed games.

Kyle's BFF called it earlier this season. Trey doesn't protect himself and takes too many unnessary hits. In college he could get away with it being the biggest, strongest and fastest but that play style in the NFL has consequences.

Yeah Lance has a problem with not protecting himself when he can. I'm not referring specifically about the play where he got injured, just in general. He's like RG3 in that way.
I never had a problem with Kyle using Lance as a runner but I do cringe every time Lance would lower his pads as he's about to get tackled. Slide feet first, or go headfirst but 1 second sooner while getting 1-2 less yards would be fine alternative options.

KS only calls the play, no one else tells Trey how to run it or take a slide for his own protection and preservation, that 1 silde Trey did in the preseason, Trey admitted it was the first time ever says all. Trey better have learned this lesson if he wants to comeback and have a long career..

Originally posted by ChillninDaBay:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by jcs:

Originally posted by TheWooLick:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

Originally posted by NCommand:
With JD and Thl on here, I loved JD's breakdown on how Trey aids the running game. The issue is his runs are im volume and into the teeth of a very large and active front 7 and in the teeth of the defense, there isn't a whole lot of space to slide or protect yourself.

And was it needed? We had 189 yards rushing on 4.2 ypc. Wilson alone was averaging 4.7 ypc.

113 of those rushing yards came when Trey was in at QB at almost 9 YPC. Only 76 yards rushing the rest of the game at 2.3 YPC.

That shows what a mobile QB can do. When the D has to account for the QB it makes it a little easier for the other backs.

It doesn't mean he actually needs to run at that volume or into the front 7. He simply needs to add a threat of it. He had 13 carries last week on 54 yards. No defense is game planning around that "threat."

That's what TDP is for.

So what's the right amount of carries? Five? Eight? He could have gotten injured on his first carry or while standing in the pocket.

He may not be built for any amount of designed runs.

Henhurt his knee last year and missed games.

Kyle's BFF called it earlier this season. Trey doesn't protect himself and takes too many unnessary hits. In college he could get away with it being the biggest, strongest and fastest but that play style in the NFL has consequences.

Yeah Lance has a problem with not protecting himself when he can. I'm not referring specifically about the play where he got injured, just in general. He's like RG3 in that way.
I never had a problem with Kyle using Lance as a runner but I do cringe every time Lance would lower his pads as he's about to get tackled. Slide feet first, or go headfirst but 1 second sooner while getting 1-2 less yards would be fine alternative options.

KS only calls the play, no one else tells Trey how to run it or take a slide for his own protection and preservation, that 1 silde Trey did in the preseason, Trey admitted it was the first time ever says all. Trey better have learned this lesson if he wants to comeback and have a long career..

KS cannt physically force Trey to protect himself but he can coach him to play differently and it's clear that hasn't been an important part of his development plan.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by jcs:

Originally posted by TheWooLick:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

Originally posted by NCommand:
With JD and Thl on here, I loved JD's breakdown on how Trey aids the running game. The issue is his runs are im volume and into the teeth of a very large and active front 7 and in the teeth of the defense, there isn't a whole lot of space to slide or protect yourself.

And was it needed? We had 189 yards rushing on 4.2 ypc. Wilson alone was averaging 4.7 ypc.

113 of those rushing yards came when Trey was in at QB at almost 9 YPC. Only 76 yards rushing the rest of the game at 2.3 YPC.

That shows what a mobile QB can do. When the D has to account for the QB it makes it a little easier for the other backs.

It doesn't mean he actually needs to run at that volume or into the front 7. He simply needs to add a threat of it. He had 13 carries last week on 54 yards. No defense is game planning around that "threat."

That's what TDP is for.

So what's the right amount of carries? Five? Eight? He could have gotten injured on his first carry or while standing in the pocket.

He may not be built for any amount of designed runs.

Henhurt his knee last year and missed games.

Kyle's BFF called it earlier this season. Trey doesn't protect himself and takes too many unnessary hits. In college he could get away with it being the biggest, strongest and fastest but that play style in the NFL has consequences.

Yeah Lance has a problem with not protecting himself when he can. I'm not referring specifically about the play where he got injured, just in general. He's like RG3 in that way.
I never had a problem with Kyle using Lance as a runner but I do cringe every time Lance would lower his pads as he's about to get tackled. Slide feet first, or go headfirst but 1 second sooner while getting 1-2 less yards would be fine alternative options.

I think the 9ers have the same situation going forward like in Washington, Trey is like RG3, high risk high reward, and Purdy might be like Kirk Cousins once Jimmy is gone.. we'll see what happens next season once Jimmy is off the team what happens going forward with QB position..