Dallas Cowboys QB Trey Lance Thread

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by Ezekiel38:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by Waterbear:
I actually think his pocket awareness is underrated. To me it's just getting the ball out on time and staying in rhythm. Those are the biggest concerns I have for Trey.

When he does this, I admit he does look good throwing when he is in rhythm. He just isn't usually in rhythm.

He has started 3 games.... NON-CONSECUTIVELY. Tough to get into a rhythm consistently methinks. So he looks get throwing when he is in rhythm but people dont want to give him games to play in order for said rhythm to become more consistent... craziness.

Guys who are ready to play play.. guys who aren't don't. See Purdy, Brock among countless others. TL has looked okay in his time, not bad I would say. But the idea you need play time to perform, you don't. We act like these guys don't throw or get prepared outside of regular season games.

Because throwing to Aiyuk running routes versus air is the same as being in the pocket and having to find an open target before getting smashed?

Pointing out BP was balling from the jump. Countless others do this. The good ones tend to. Brady, Mahomes, Rodgers, Warner one could go on and on and on. Cam Newton did. TL a lot more of a raw prospect, which is why he had the red shirt year more or less. Injury turned it to two red shirt years.

No reason to think he will be struggling week 1 next year, he is capable of having a real game week 1 if called upon. Depends on how his offseason goes.

What did you mean by, "But the idea you need play time to perform, you don't", in your post above?
It's possible I completely misunderstood you, but I thought you meant, 'you don't need to play to improve'.

I was saying you don't need to struggle for your first handful of career starts before you look good / ready. I see a persistent narrative in this thread that TL won't look good until he gets a certain x volume of starts. I don't believe in that.

You also don't need to be a total baller right out the gate in order to have a good career, especially at the QB position where there is a lot to learn.

I would agree 100. Alex is an example I have used in this thread he was maybe the worst rook QB of all time. His college coach said he would be 'nonfunctional' early on. He was. KC Smith was just a night / day difference.

Yes, but then a team can play Alex Smith (or any young player) for years for him to reach his prime, and then end up figuring out that he is ok but will never be great.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by Ezekiel38:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by Waterbear:
I actually think his pocket awareness is underrated. To me it's just getting the ball out on time and staying in rhythm. Those are the biggest concerns I have for Trey.

When he does this, I admit he does look good throwing when he is in rhythm. He just isn't usually in rhythm.

He has started 3 games.... NON-CONSECUTIVELY. Tough to get into a rhythm consistently methinks. So he looks get throwing when he is in rhythm but people dont want to give him games to play in order for said rhythm to become more consistent... craziness.

Guys who are ready to play play.. guys who aren't don't. See Purdy, Brock among countless others. TL has looked okay in his time, not bad I would say. But the idea you need play time to perform, you don't. We act like these guys don't throw or get prepared outside of regular season games.

Because throwing to Aiyuk running routes versus air is the same as being in the pocket and having to find an open target before getting smashed?

Pointing out BP was balling from the jump. Countless others do this. The good ones tend to. Brady, Mahomes, Rodgers, Warner one could go on and on and on. Cam Newton did. TL a lot more of a raw prospect, which is why he had the red shirt year more or less. Injury turned it to two red shirt years.

No reason to think he will be struggling week 1 next year, he is capable of having a real game week 1 if called upon. Depends on how his offseason goes.

What did you mean by, "But the idea you need play time to perform, you don't", in your post above?
It's possible I completely misunderstood you, but I thought you meant, 'you don't need to play to improve'.

I was saying you don't need to struggle for your first handful of career starts before you look good / ready. I see a persistent narrative in this thread that TL won't look good until he gets a certain x volume of starts. I don't believe in that.

You also don't need to be a total baller right out the gate in order to have a good career, especially at the QB position where there is a lot to learn.

I would agree 100. Alex is an example I have used in this thread he was maybe the worst rook QB of all time. His college coach said he would be 'nonfunctional' early on. He was. KC Smith was just a night / day difference.

Smith, Rich Gannon, Steve Bono, Steve Young......

Bay Area has has quite a few examples of horrific young QBs that ended up as pro-bowlers later on in their careers.

I am so solidly in the do no start young QBs camp... let them sit and learn.

Especially on a team with someone like Shanny 2.0.... you have a generationally entrenched offensive guru who knows with in reason what his offense will look like in 5 years. Sitting and getting acclimated to the system is not a waste of time.

Originally posted by Pillbusta:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Sure CMC will help but we didn't take a guy 3 overall to do RB dumpoffs. You don't need that kind of investment to check down.

You check down when you have a threat like CMC

Lol faithful was all about Jimmy and his dinking and dumping for years

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Pointing out BP was balling from the jump. Countless others do this. The good ones tend to. Brady, Mahomes, Rodgers, Warner one could go on and on and on. Cam Newton did. TL a lot more of a raw prospect, which is why he had the red shirt year more or less. Injury turned it to two red shirt years.

No reason to think he will be struggling week 1 next year, he is capable of having a real game week 1 if called upon. Depends on how his offseason goes.

You can in-fact count them.......

There have not been many that have come out the gate on fire.

I am not even sure I would include Brady in "from the jump"...he sat a year... Same with Rodgers who sat several years.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Pillbusta:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Sure CMC will help but we didn't take a guy 3 overall to do RB dumpoffs. You don't need that kind of investment to check down.

You check down when you have a threat like CMC

Lol faithful was all about Jimmy and his dinking and dumping for years

It's dink and dunk. Dump is something else entirely that we don't want associated with our offense.

Originally posted by Dshearn:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by Ezekiel38:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by Waterbear:
I actually think his pocket awareness is underrated. To me it's just getting the ball out on time and staying in rhythm. Those are the biggest concerns I have for Trey.

When he does this, I admit he does look good throwing when he is in rhythm. He just isn't usually in rhythm.

He has started 3 games.... NON-CONSECUTIVELY. Tough to get into a rhythm consistently methinks. So he looks get throwing when he is in rhythm but people dont want to give him games to play in order for said rhythm to become more consistent... craziness.

Guys who are ready to play play.. guys who aren't don't. See Purdy, Brock among countless others. TL has looked okay in his time, not bad I would say. But the idea you need play time to perform, you don't. We act like these guys don't throw or get prepared outside of regular season games.

Because throwing to Aiyuk running routes versus air is the same as being in the pocket and having to find an open target before getting smashed?

Pointing out BP was balling from the jump. Countless others do this. The good ones tend to. Brady, Mahomes, Rodgers, Warner one could go on and on and on. Cam Newton did. TL a lot more of a raw prospect, which is why he had the red shirt year more or less. Injury turned it to two red shirt years.

No reason to think he will be struggling week 1 next year, he is capable of having a real game week 1 if called upon. Depends on how his offseason goes.

What did you mean by, "But the idea you need play time to perform, you don't", in your post above?
It's possible I completely misunderstood you, but I thought you meant, 'you don't need to play to improve'.

I was saying you don't need to struggle for your first handful of career starts before you look good / ready. I see a persistent narrative in this thread that TL won't look good until he gets a certain x volume of starts. I don't believe in that.

You also don't need to be a total baller right out the gate in order to have a good career, especially at the QB position where there is a lot to learn.

I would agree 100. Alex is an example I have used in this thread he was maybe the worst rook QB of all time. His college coach said he would be 'nonfunctional' early on. He was. KC Smith was just a night / day difference.

Smith, Rich Gannon, Steve Bono, Steve Young......

Bay Area has has quite a few examples of horrific young QBs that ended up as pro-bowlers later on in their careers.

I am so solidly in the do no start young QBs camp... let them sit and learn.

Especially on a team with someone like Shanny 2.0.... you have a generationally entrenched offensive guru who knows with in reason what his offense will look like in 5 years. Sitting and getting acclimated to the system is not a waste of time.

Do not start Brock? He is a young QB, may not look like one when he plays.

Originally posted by libertyforever:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by Ezekiel38:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by Waterbear:
I actually think his pocket awareness is underrated. To me it's just getting the ball out on time and staying in rhythm. Those are the biggest concerns I have for Trey.

When he does this, I admit he does look good throwing when he is in rhythm. He just isn't usually in rhythm.

He has started 3 games.... NON-CONSECUTIVELY. Tough to get into a rhythm consistently methinks. So he looks get throwing when he is in rhythm but people dont want to give him games to play in order for said rhythm to become more consistent... craziness.

Guys who are ready to play play.. guys who aren't don't. See Purdy, Brock among countless others. TL has looked okay in his time, not bad I would say. But the idea you need play time to perform, you don't. We act like these guys don't throw or get prepared outside of regular season games.

Because throwing to Aiyuk running routes versus air is the same as being in the pocket and having to find an open target before getting smashed?

Pointing out BP was balling from the jump. Countless others do this. The good ones tend to. Brady, Mahomes, Rodgers, Warner one could go on and on and on. Cam Newton did. TL a lot more of a raw prospect, which is why he had the red shirt year more or less. Injury turned it to two red shirt years.

No reason to think he will be struggling week 1 next year, he is capable of having a real game week 1 if called upon. Depends on how his offseason goes.

What did you mean by, "But the idea you need play time to perform, you don't", in your post above?
It's possible I completely misunderstood you, but I thought you meant, 'you don't need to play to improve'.

I was saying you don't need to struggle for your first handful of career starts before you look good / ready. I see a persistent narrative in this thread that TL won't look good until he gets a certain x volume of starts. I don't believe in that.

You also don't need to be a total baller right out the gate in order to have a good career, especially at the QB position where there is a lot to learn.

I would agree 100. Alex is an example I have used in this thread he was maybe the worst rook QB of all time. His college coach said he would be 'nonfunctional' early on. He was. KC Smith was just a night / day difference.

Yes, but then a team can play Alex Smith (or any young player) for years for him to reach his prime, and then end up figuring out that he is ok but will never be great.

Yeah the Alex era was incredibly frustrating

Originally posted by Dshearn:
You can in-fact count them.......

There have not been many that have come out the gate on fire.

I am not even sure I would include Brady in "from the jump"...he sat a year... Same with Rodgers who sat several years.

Brady was more than solid when he first started....much like Montana. Rodgers was beyond that. Dan Marino started off in the stratosphere. John Elway took a few years before he put a stamp on his career. Steve Young was left for dead until Bill Walsh called.

Every QB is different....under different coaches, in different schemes surrounded by different talent. It is literally pointless to compare 'x' player to 'y' player with regards to how they function right from the start of their career, but I guess here we are. Trey Lance, and his situation is the perfect example of a player who needs far more time before any final judgement is made.

Originally posted by RickyRoma:

Originally posted by Dshearn:
You can in-fact count them.......

There have not been many that have come out the gate on fire.

I am not even sure I would include Brady in "from the jump"...he sat a year... Same with Rodgers who sat several years.

Brady was more than solid when he first started....much like Montana. Rodgers was beyond that. Dan Marino started off in the stratosphere. John Elway took a few years before he put a stamp on his career. Steve Young was left for dead until Bill Walsh called.

Every QB is different....under different coaches, in different schemes surrounded by different talent. It is literally pointless to compare 'x' player to 'y' player with regards to how they function right from the start of their career, but I guess here we are. Trey Lance, and his situation is the perfect example of a player who needs far more time before any final judgement is made.

Trey has a year of college under his belt. It's going to take him time to get used to the pro game.

Originally posted by Dshearn:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Pointing out BP was balling from the jump. Countless others do this. The good ones tend to. Brady, Mahomes, Rodgers, Warner one could go on and on and on. Cam Newton did. TL a lot more of a raw prospect, which is why he had the red shirt year more or less. Injury turned it to two red shirt years.

No reason to think he will be struggling week 1 next year, he is capable of having a real game week 1 if called upon. Depends on how his offseason goes.

You can in-fact count them.......

There have not been many that have come out the gate on fire.

I am not even sure I would include Brady in "from the jump"...he sat a year... Same with Rodgers who sat several years.

Manning was dogs**t his first full year. Young Brady was not "balling" out the gate as a QB either. He was winning on defense and running the ball.

Hurts stunk his first year and then some. Allen was awful.

faithful thought lance was gonna have like 50 TDs this yr. That's his damn fault for thinking he was gonna be that from day 1 as a starter.

he might never be a star, but anyone thinking they have any clue what he is right now is being incredibly arrogant

Originally posted by RickyRoma:
Brady was more than solid when he first started....much like Montana. Rodgers was beyond that. Dan Marino started off in the stratosphere. John Elway took a few years before he put a stamp on his career. Steve Young was left for dead until Bill Walsh called.

Every QB is different....under different coaches, in different schemes surrounded by different talent. It is literally pointless to compare 'x' player to 'y' player with regards to how they function right from the start of their career, but I guess here we are. Trey Lance, and his situation is the perfect example of a player who needs far more time before any final judgement is made.

Agree with this and would add that the league is completely different as well, at least in the case of the vast majority of these examples.

I have a hard time comparing management strategies from now to the glory years 49ers, or pre and early salary cap era teams, or even prior to the restructuring of rookie deals ~ 2011. It's a completely different ballgame.

Originally posted by riverrunzthruit:

Originally posted by Goatie:

Originally posted by SLCNiner:

Originally posted by Pillbusta:
At the end of the day I trust Kyle and Trey to figure it out as well as I trust Kyle and Brock. I'm telling you all barring any setbacks health wise we're in good hands with the 22 and the 23 year olds we have!

All this love for someone who will never be more than a QB2 back up at the 49ers

blows my mind I don't get it, must be love for something not related to football is my guess

If you guys have such eye for talent, why aren't you working for a team in the NFL? You know many FOs would kill to have people like you that are such football savants? You guys would get promoted to GM really fast if you can tell if a player will be a bust after just 3 games. You guys are wasting your talents!

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Dshearn:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Pointing out BP was balling from the jump. Countless others do this. The good ones tend to. Brady, Mahomes, Rodgers, Warner one could go on and on and on. Cam Newton did. TL a lot more of a raw prospect, which is why he had the red shirt year more or less. Injury turned it to two red shirt years.

No reason to think he will be struggling week 1 next year, he is capable of having a real game week 1 if called upon. Depends on how his offseason goes.

You can in-fact count them.......

There have not been many that have come out the gate on fire.

I am not even sure I would include Brady in "from the jump"...he sat a year... Same with Rodgers who sat several years.

Manning was dogs**t his first full year. Young Brady was not "balling" out the gate as a QB either. He was winning on defense and running the ball.

Hurts stunk his first year and then some. Allen was awful.

faithful thought lance was gonna have like 50 TDs this yr. That's his damn fault for thinking he was gonna be that from day 1 as a starter.

he might never be a star, but anyone thinking they have any clue what he is right now is being incredibly arrogant

Brady won a SB first year as starter; so think it's fair to say he started out well.. they benched Bledsoe even when healthy that year

On TL, I was looking at his per game 2021 small sample size and did a whole season worth of numbers based on an assumption they would throw more maybe 8 or so times per game more than his 2021 action (think he had 23 attempts vs HOU). His per play numbers in 2021 are actually pretty good. It's KS so I should have never assumed more passes. But then again I wonder why we took a passer, if not to you know, pass.

Originally posted by mayo49:
Trey has a year of college under his belt. It's going to take him time to get used to the pro game.

Remember when I said he should have played early because he needed to play football to improve? Got a lot of s**t for it, end of the day it was true…didn't win a SB either way

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
Agree with this and would add that the league is completely different as well, at least in the case of the vast majority of these examples.

I have a hard time comparing management strategies from now to the glory years 49ers, or pre and early salary cap era teams, or even prior to the restructuring of rookie deals ~ 2011. It's a completely different ballgame.

Yup. 30+ years ago....when the game wasn't so offensively oriented, it was more prevalent to keep a rookie QB on the bench to protect him. With all the protection the pivots get today, it's far harder to 'ruin' a QB. QB's today can carry a surrounding cast far easier than it was in Montana's era, which was easier than say.....Unitas' era.