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Dallas Cowboys QB Trey Lance Thread

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Mar 16, 2023 at 12:10 PM
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by SLCNiner:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
Like I said last year and in 2021, the expectation with Lance is that by the stretch run or the playoffs, he should be a more seasoned and improved player than he is at the start of the season. Thats why I dont really dont care if Darnold is slightly better at the start of the season. And neither should the coaches. If the coaches think Darnold is ahead week 1, but believe that come week 8 Trey would be better than Darnold is, then they start Trey.

Its like you guys who have this opinion refuse to acknowledge that improvement is very possible with reps.

This all makes sense, and if it was just between playing Sam and Trey and for the full season, you'd rather play Trey and hope he develops.

But this isn't the situation. We have Purdy, who's set to return at the beginning of the season. It's not a question of who would be the better option of Trey and Sam over a full season of play. It's a question of who is the best bridge player until Purdy can return. It's true we aren't sure what Purdy is going to be when he gets back, but clearly he's shown enough that the team would 'gamble' on him first.

The only way Trey is playing long term next season is if he plays at a level close or equal to what we saw from Purdy, or if Purdy has major setbacks and just isn't available.

Patrick Mahomes lead the league in TD passes last season. His TD rate was 6.3%. That TD% is considered elite. Brock Purdy's TD rate was 7.65% last season. I find it hard to believe that Brock could sustain that level of success and would not be fair to expect that level of play for any QB in the league, including Mahomes.

With that said. As long as Trey is moving the chains and we are winning games, Shanahan is not replacing him with Brock Purdy. Purdy will have to be supportive of Trey just like Trey was supportive of Brock last season and wait patiently for his next opportunity.

How is this so hard to accept? And why would anyone want to make a change if we are winning and Trey is showing improvements? BTW that TD rate is absolutely insane.

Replace Trey with Jimmy G and ask yourself that same question. Lol ridiculous. Purdy has shown A LOT more than Trey has. So that is Trey's floor. If he's not playing at minimum the level that Purdy was playing at, he's getting benched when Purdy is ready. That's if he even beats out Darnold. Assuming they actually let them compete of course, the job may be handed to Trey again like last year simply based on where he was drafted and how much we gave up for him.

Purdy was playing out of his mind last season. His efficiency numbers rivaled Pat Mahomes and was even better than Mahomes in certain areas that I mentioned above. To believe that Brock can sustain that level, which was beyond elite, is unfair expectation even to have for Brock.

Oh I was told he was just hitting wide open WR's and that any QB could do that.

I am guessing you are refering to my post from yesterday. I made those statements to demonstrate how silly of an argument that is because someone was using it to discredit plays that Trey has made. I even said as much afterward. But nice try.

No I wasn't referring to you, I know which side of this you're on. My bad.

I like both Trey and Brock. The better they both become, the better it is for this organization. We all should be hoping Trey becomes the player we drafted him to be. Otherwise, it was a waste of draft capital and we have no leverage in a trade if it comes down to having to choose one over the other down the road.

I agree with you. For me after watching Trey, Jimmy, and Brock last season - it's clear that Kyle doesn't trust Trey to run the offense that he wants to run. Jimmy got to run 90% of it. Purdy totally unlocked everything. Trey's skillset just doesn't match what Purdy was able to do. I think he'd do better in a different offense, with a different head coach. Just my opinion. But yes, for the sake of the team it would be great if Trey balled out.

The thing is, that's why Kyle drafted him. To do exactly those kinds of runs. Of course we have Purdy now, so maybe moving the offense in that direction as originally planned will be modified. It wouldn't be the first time Shanahan has adjusted his plans. Originally he wanted to run an offense similar to the Atlanta Falcons (hence C.J. Beathard, Marquise Goodwin, and Pierre Garçon). But then we got Jimmy, and the offense was adjusted for his strengths and weaknesses. And then Kyle started getting obsessed with positionless football, so we got Deebo. And it was that trend that led us to Trey.

So he's modified his plans before, and if Trey doesn't ball out while Purdy is hurt, I suspect he'll do it again.
Mar 16, 2023 at 12:10 PM
Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
That was my question to Furlow. My question to you was did he juke a linebacker.

He jukes a safety is what I am seeing

LOL touche.
Mar 16, 2023 at 12:12 PM
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by SLCNiner:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
Like I said last year and in 2021, the expectation with Lance is that by the stretch run or the playoffs, he should be a more seasoned and improved player than he is at the start of the season. Thats why I dont really dont care if Darnold is slightly better at the start of the season. And neither should the coaches. If the coaches think Darnold is ahead week 1, but believe that come week 8 Trey would be better than Darnold is, then they start Trey.

Its like you guys who have this opinion refuse to acknowledge that improvement is very possible with reps.

This all makes sense, and if it was just between playing Sam and Trey and for the full season, you'd rather play Trey and hope he develops.

But this isn't the situation. We have Purdy, who's set to return at the beginning of the season. It's not a question of who would be the better option of Trey and Sam over a full season of play. It's a question of who is the best bridge player until Purdy can return. It's true we aren't sure what Purdy is going to be when he gets back, but clearly he's shown enough that the team would 'gamble' on him first.

The only way Trey is playing long term next season is if he plays at a level close or equal to what we saw from Purdy, or if Purdy has major setbacks and just isn't available.

Patrick Mahomes lead the league in TD passes last season. His TD rate was 6.3%. That TD% is considered elite. Brock Purdy's TD rate was 7.65% last season. I find it hard to believe that Brock could sustain that level of success and would not be fair to expect that level of play for any QB in the league, including Mahomes.

With that said. As long as Trey is moving the chains and we are winning games, Shanahan is not replacing him with Brock Purdy. Purdy will have to be supportive of Trey just like Trey was supportive of Brock last season and wait patiently for his next opportunity.

How is this so hard to accept? And why would anyone want to make a change if we are winning and Trey is showing improvements? BTW that TD rate is absolutely insane.

Replace Trey with Jimmy G and ask yourself that same question. Lol ridiculous. Purdy has shown A LOT more than Trey has. So that is Trey's floor. If he's not playing at minimum the level that Purdy was playing at, he's getting benched when Purdy is ready. That's if he even beats out Darnold. Assuming they actually let them compete of course, the job may be handed to Trey again like last year simply based on where he was drafted and how much we gave up for him.

Purdy was playing out of his mind last season. His efficiency numbers rivaled Pat Mahomes and was even better than Mahomes in certain areas that I mentioned above. To believe that Brock can sustain that level, which was beyond elite, is unfair expectation even to have for Brock.

Oh I was told he was just hitting wide open WR's and that any QB could do that.

I am guessing you are refering to my post from yesterday. I made those statements to demonstrate how silly of an argument that is because someone was using it to discredit plays that Trey has made. I even said as much afterward. But nice try.

No I wasn't referring to you, I know which side of this you're on. My bad.

I like both Trey and Brock. The better they both become, the better it is for this organization. We all should be hoping Trey becomes the player we drafted him to be. Otherwise, it was a waste of draft capital and we have no leverage in a trade if it comes down to having to choose one over the other down the road.

I agree with you. For me after watching Trey, Jimmy, and Brock last season - it's clear that Kyle doesn't trust Trey to run the offense that he wants to run. Jimmy got to run 90% of it. Purdy totally unlocked everything. Trey's skillset just doesn't match what Purdy was able to do. I think he'd do better in a different offense, with a different head coach. Just my opinion. But yes, for the sake of the team it would be great if Trey balled out.

Explain how Purdy unlocked the entire playbook. Kyle wasn't calling all of those RPOs and QB runs because Trey can't pass, he called drop back plays with Trey also. He didn't call the RPOs and QB runs for Jimmy because he simply can't do them. To me, that says Trey opens up more of the playbook.
Mar 16, 2023 at 12:17 PM
Originally posted by Furlow:
I think it's a great run and I believe Trey's running ability is electric.

if that's electric what's this?


Mar 16, 2023 at 12:20 PM
  • thl408
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 33,039
Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
Its like you guys who have this opinion refuse to acknowledge that improvement is very possible with reps.

I find ppl refuse to acknowledge that improvement is possible with prax reps. Yet QBs do it all the time, and TL will need to also. This is a SB team, can't be effing around in regular season. He's got months to work and improve. It's called offseason. Sure you can improve while the real games are being played, but that's far from ideal if he needs to struggle there in order to succeed.

How much can a QB really improve when all he's doing is throwing against air? Lance needs dropback reps with real coverages being played. Not one WR running a route versus cones, and being wide open all the time.

This proves my point.. essentially the argument that improvement can't be had in prax or offseason, or at least not in a significant way, I disagree, and countless QBs have done it.. we just watched Brock improve a great deal from May, to preseason, to MIA or TB games.. even teammates came out and said, he wasn't fooling around in prax, he was using all that time / reps to get better.

Ohh I thought we were talking about practice outside of OTAs and training camp. For example when Trey is throwing to Aiyuk who is running routes versus air. That's not the kind of practice that's going to improve Trey much because there's no coverage to throw against.
Mar 16, 2023 at 12:20 PM
Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
if that's electric what's this?



Some other teams' QB.
Mar 16, 2023 at 12:22 PM
Originally posted by thl408:
Ohh I thought we were talking about practice outside of OTAs and training camp. For example when Trey is throwing to Aiyuk who is running routes versus air. That's not the kind of practice that's going to improve Trey much because there's no coverage to throw against.

even no coverage.. he still improves, that's the whole point of getting with a QB specialist.. he needs that kind of work he needs all kind of work imo. Can't work this guy hard enough this offseason.. I think simply hitting spots where he wants to put the ball he needs work. We all see how live his arm is, just needs consistency and a lot of throwing is my take
Mar 16, 2023 at 12:23 PM
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by SLCNiner:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
Like I said last year and in 2021, the expectation with Lance is that by the stretch run or the playoffs, he should be a more seasoned and improved player than he is at the start of the season. Thats why I dont really dont care if Darnold is slightly better at the start of the season. And neither should the coaches. If the coaches think Darnold is ahead week 1, but believe that come week 8 Trey would be better than Darnold is, then they start Trey.

Its like you guys who have this opinion refuse to acknowledge that improvement is very possible with reps.

This all makes sense, and if it was just between playing Sam and Trey and for the full season, you'd rather play Trey and hope he develops.

But this isn't the situation. We have Purdy, who's set to return at the beginning of the season. It's not a question of who would be the better option of Trey and Sam over a full season of play. It's a question of who is the best bridge player until Purdy can return. It's true we aren't sure what Purdy is going to be when he gets back, but clearly he's shown enough that the team would 'gamble' on him first.

The only way Trey is playing long term next season is if he plays at a level close or equal to what we saw from Purdy, or if Purdy has major setbacks and just isn't available.

Patrick Mahomes lead the league in TD passes last season. His TD rate was 6.3%. That TD% is considered elite. Brock Purdy's TD rate was 7.65% last season. I find it hard to believe that Brock could sustain that level of success and would not be fair to expect that level of play for any QB in the league, including Mahomes.

With that said. As long as Trey is moving the chains and we are winning games, Shanahan is not replacing him with Brock Purdy. Purdy will have to be supportive of Trey just like Trey was supportive of Brock last season and wait patiently for his next opportunity.

How is this so hard to accept? And why would anyone want to make a change if we are winning and Trey is showing improvements? BTW that TD rate is absolutely insane.

Replace Trey with Jimmy G and ask yourself that same question. Lol ridiculous. Purdy has shown A LOT more than Trey has. So that is Trey's floor. If he's not playing at minimum the level that Purdy was playing at, he's getting benched when Purdy is ready. That's if he even beats out Darnold. Assuming they actually let them compete of course, the job may be handed to Trey again like last year simply based on where he was drafted and how much we gave up for him.

Purdy was playing out of his mind last season. His efficiency numbers rivaled Pat Mahomes and was even better than Mahomes in certain areas that I mentioned above. To believe that Brock can sustain that level, which was beyond elite, is unfair expectation even to have for Brock.

Oh I was told he was just hitting wide open WR's and that any QB could do that.

I am guessing you are refering to my post from yesterday. I made those statements to demonstrate how silly of an argument that is because someone was using it to discredit plays that Trey has made. I even said as much afterward. But nice try.

No I wasn't referring to you, I know which side of this you're on. My bad.

I like both Trey and Brock. The better they both become, the better it is for this organization. We all should be hoping Trey becomes the player we drafted him to be. Otherwise, it was a waste of draft capital and we have no leverage in a trade if it comes down to having to choose one over the other down the road.

I agree with you. For me after watching Trey, Jimmy, and Brock last season - it's clear that Kyle doesn't trust Trey to run the offense that he wants to run. Jimmy got to run 90% of it. Purdy totally unlocked everything. Trey's skillset just doesn't match what Purdy was able to do. I think he'd do better in a different offense, with a different head coach. Just my opinion. But yes, for the sake of the team it would be great if Trey balled out.

Question for you.

Have you ever noticed how the playcalling changes when Kyle has different running backs in the game? I know I have.

Your point may be accurate and maybe Kyle doesn't think he can run the full offense with Trey(whether it's right now or in general) but I don't think we can easily say that based on the playcalling we've seen.

Few things go into that analysis.
Kyle's playcalling with certain players in the game plan - no Kittle, no CMC for Trey.
Weather - definitely impacts playcalling. Footing in that Chicago game was atrocious.
Game plan - the pass plays Jimmy came in throwing vs Seattle were intended for Trey. He just didn't get to them because he got hurt.

I think the biggest indicator that your point isn't that accurate is the change we've seen with Jimmy. We saw him pre CMC and we saw him post CMC. He looked like the best version of himself with CMC out there and Kyle's playcalling was masterful with him in the game.

We never got to see Trey play with Kittle, let alone CMC. In his 4 starts Trey got Kittle out there with him for 1 game. Ironically or not it was the 1 win when he was able to finish the game.

How can we really claim Kyle is limiting his offense with Trey due to Trey and not all the other stuff going on until we see him play in the same situations as the other QBs? You can also say that Trey's running ability and size was why we saw as much QB runs and it wasn't because he felt Trey couldn't handle the passing game.

When it's all said and done Kyle loves the running game.
Mar 16, 2023 at 12:23 PM
Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
Right and I agree with him. Practice reps can only help so much, and game reps are more important. Sitting for a year DID help his development. I dont think even the krizzy level Trey analysts could argue that he didnt look better against the Bears than he did against the Texans....even in spite of the conditions. So it should be obvious that there is the ability to improve from the bench. However, to argue that there isnt a limit to how much one can improve without live game reps is not something that I find logical at all.

He didn't look good vs the Bears.. that's what prompted the Martz take
Maybe explain how BP went from Mr Irrelevant to roasting Tom Brady in his debut as QB1, with no regular season starts in between.. clear to me he grew each month on a large scale while not getting the live game reps you mention

LOL. Its comical that you cant see the contradiction you are making. So if he didnt look better against the Bears than he did the Texans, then you are essentially saying that all that time he spent practicing from the Texans game to the Bears game didnt do anything in terms of improvement.

I was even agreeing with you that some improvements can be made without live reps. Funny stuff.
Mar 16, 2023 at 12:25 PM
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Replace Trey with Jimmy G and ask yourself that same question. Lol ridiculous. Purdy has shown A LOT more than Trey has. So that is Trey's floor. If he's not playing at minimum the level that Purdy was playing at, he's getting benched when Purdy is ready. That's if he even beats out Darnold. Assuming they actually let them compete of course, the job may be handed to Trey again like last year simply based on where he was drafted and how much we gave up for him.

This is an assumption. Maybe the job was handed to him because the coaching staff believed that by the stretch run of the season that Trey would be playing at a higher level than Jimmy would have been?

Also an assumption. What we know is he didn't earn the job with his play. To me the only way that makes sense is because of what was given up to get him. If had had been an undrafted FA, do you think he would have been named the starter like that? Doubtful.

How can me asking a question be an assumption?
Mar 16, 2023 at 12:25 PM
Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
if that's electric what's this?



Fields is buns.
[ Edited by Heroism on Mar 16, 2023 at 12:27 PM ]
Mar 16, 2023 at 12:27 PM
Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
LOL. Its comical that you cant see the contradiction you are making. So if he didnt look better against the Bears than he did the Texans, then you are essentially saying that all that time he spent practicing from the Texans game to the Bears game didnt do anything in terms of improvement.

I was even agreeing with you that some improvements can be made without live reps. Funny stuff.

Realize improvement isn't linear it would be absurd to expect every game that follows to be better than the last.. come on swh

also didn't address my question to you on BP improving and how that relates to the convo on TL or improving while not playing regular season..
Mar 16, 2023 at 12:27 PM
Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
if that's electric what's this?



Justin Fields is a better runner of the football than Trey, this isn't anything new. Lamar Jackson is a better runner of the football, nothing new there either.

The idea that Lance can't run with the football vs NFL defenses is another story. I keep saying this when people question whether Lance is good enough to run in the NFL - look at the game vs Seattle in 2021 when he came in for Jimmy. Specifically his QB scrambles because that's when you see his talent take over. I really believe that when he's running a play that Kyle designed vs just reacting like on a QB scramble he hesitates much more.

The more he plays, the more confidence he has in the play and what he's seeing the better his runs will be. If I recall Fields wasn't running the way he was running this year the year prior in his early starts even though he's more shifty and quicker than Trey.
Mar 16, 2023 at 12:31 PM
Originally posted by Heroism:
Fields is buns.

Lol
Mar 16, 2023 at 12:44 PM
Trey is a fine runner for a QB, I get that, but is it really a strength? Is it something he could lean on like Allen/Jackson did and Fields is?

I don't think so. He's not a great runner and he lacks awareness. I think he'll keep getting injured with that plan
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