Dallas Cowboys QB Trey Lance Thread

Originally posted by krizay:
See now that there is the gray area we are in. People think Kyle can develop Trey because they think he can turn anyone to gold.

The reason I never wanted Trey because his traits don't fit what makes this offense go.

Mac Jones' strengths fit perfectly. That is why most people assumed it would be him. Purdy's strengths fits perfectly. That is why he excelled.

While Trey has great physical ability, his accuracy, feet, processing all of that lacks to run Kyle's offense. IN MY OPINION.

As the 9ers have shown with Purdy you can get a superior prospect to Mac with the last pick in the draft.

First rounds are for getting the elite skill sets that aren't available later.

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by genus49:
Man you guys are champs of mental gymnastics.

Nobody ever said Trey played with garbage. The comparison was to what Brock had to play with. It's not that complicated.

But if you want to take it there then why is the idea that Sam Darnold turns into a swan if surrounded by better players but Lance can't improve if he actually has CMC and Kittle on the field with him?

I've put up maybe 100s of posts saying TL can improve. This notion TL can't improve is not one I hold.

Sam has demonstrated he's a functional QB in the league. 92 rated last year quarterbacking a dumpster fire. KS sees something in him, which is more than a draft projection, KS sees what he's done in the NFL and signed up for Sam.

Put Sam in this O, with KS and mega weapons and I can see him bettering his 92 rating of last season.

TL is a question mark. So all the weapons in the world, if he can't hit with accuracy, consistency, see the field well, lacks confidence or LR voice, he will struggle. TL needs to flip the switch to on, and have a great summer, play with some edge to him. He can do it, just not sure he will, but if he doesn't or struggles, we are in a good spot with Sam.

Put Darnold in a monsoon game when penalties are rampant and we have 3 new starter on the OL and the veteran OTs are playing poorly and unable to get solid footing.

How well do you think he does even with our full compliment of weapons?

Once again...the games we lost with Trey were very close games where a couple of plays were the difference. Darnold's garbage games absolutely burry teams.

Originally posted by krizay:
See now that there is the gray area we are in. People think Kyle can develop Trey because they think he can turn anyone to gold.

The reason I never wanted Trey because his traits don't fit what makes this offense go.

Mac Jones' strengths fit perfectly. That is why most people assumed it would be him. Purdy's strengths fits perfectly. That is why he excelled.

While Trey has great physical ability, his accuracy, feet, processing all of that lacks to run Kyle's offense. IN MY OPINION.

But the question always is going to be, Just like it was with Jimmy.. Can you win a SB with them? It's not about winning your division, It's not about getting to the NFC championship. It's not about even getting to the SB. It's about winning the SB.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by krizay:
See now that there is the gray area we are in. People think Kyle can develop Trey because they think he can turn anyone to gold.

The reason I never wanted Trey because his traits don't fit what makes this offense go.

Mac Jones' strengths fit perfectly. That is why most people assumed it would be him. Purdy's strengths fits perfectly. That is why he excelled.

While Trey has great physical ability, his accuracy, feet, processing all of that lacks to run Kyle's offense. IN MY OPINION.

As the 9ers have shown with Purdy you can get a superior prospect to Mac with the last pick in the draft.

First rounds are for getting the elite skill sets that aren't available later.

Bro thinks he knows what Kyle wants at a QB kyle SHOWED everyone what he wants and gave up years of 1st rd picks to get it.

people ever think that the past QBs that Kyle "liked" weren't even up to him? He was never in a position to make the decision on what he wanted…really until now.

Like you said you can find Jones talent later in drafts. They found it with Brock. You move up in the draft to find elite level traits. They clearly need to be developed and people refuse to accept the reality of that.

now I'm not comparing Lance to Mahomes/Allen/Watson at all…but if lance doesn't "fit" what kyle wants. How the f**k do ya'll think those other guys do? They're not robots who just run the play regardless. It's so much backyard football and expending plays…guess they would have all sucked here too.

also let's be real it's not "what fits the system" it's what Kirzay values at QB. Let's at least acknowledge it 😉

This is another reason why I want to see Lance with Kittle and CMC out there.


And as I said before...we should cut down Trey's runs but we can still use these plays. His threat to run would still add wrinkles causing issues for defenses.

Originally posted by JTB1974:

Originally posted by krizay:
See now that there is the gray area we are in. People think Kyle can develop Trey because they think he can turn anyone to gold.

The reason I never wanted Trey because his traits don't fit what makes this offense go.

Mac Jones' strengths fit perfectly. That is why most people assumed it would be him. Purdy's strengths fits perfectly. That is why he excelled.

While Trey has great physical ability, his accuracy, feet, processing all of that lacks to run Kyle's offense. IN MY OPINION.

But the question always is going to be, Just like it was with Jimmy.. Can you win a SB with them? It's not about winning your division, It's not about getting to the NFC championship. It's not about even getting to the SB. It's about winning the SB.

I mean sure it's about winning the SB. I rather the question be can they win the big one as opposed to can he win the backup job

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Bro thinks he knows what Kyle wants at a QB kyle SHOWED everyone what he wants and gave up years of 1st rd picks to get it.

people ever think that the past QBs that Kyle "liked" weren't even up to him? He was never in a position to make the decision on what he wanted…really until now.

Like you said you can find Jones talent later in drafts. They found it with Brock. You move up in the draft to find elite level traits. They clearly need to be developed and people refuse to accept the reality of that.

now I'm not comparing Lance to Mahomes/Allen/Watson at all…but if lance doesn't "fit" what kyle wants. How the f**k do ya'll think those other guys do? They're not robots who just run the play regardless. It's so much backyard football and expending plays…guess they would have all sucked here too.

also let's be real it's not "what fits the system" it's what Kirzay values at QB. Let's at least acknowledge it 😉

"Kyle wants somebody that can understand his offense, that can process information quickly, that can see the field through a lens that makes sense to him to be able to coach it, and for you to kind of see it how he sees it," Beck said on "Papa and Lund." "It doesn't have to be perfect, but he wants you to be able to communicate with him and then be able to process so that in-game communications, during-practice communication, all those things can flow smoothly.

"He's also really big on feet. He wants to be able to tie feet to the scheme, and really vice versa. So, he's very particular about the feet of his quarterback, the eyes of his quarterback, the positioning, and he looks for traits and abilities. Physical abilities would be getting the ball out quickly, being able to drive it to a lot of different places on the field quickly and effortlessly. He loves to be aggressive in play-pass, especially certain areas of the field, so he wants somebody, as they come off the play fake, if those safeties start to cut the underneath routes, or if they get flat-footed, he wants somebody that can drive a ball downfield, and then within space.

From Beck. How much of this sounds like Trey?

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Love how he keeps tossing our QB rating... Like he even knows how that stats comes about. I've asked him multiple time to tell me how that number of figured out…crickets. But you know if anyone tosses out PFF data it's a lie. We can show the countless other data points over the course of his whole career…nope that doesn't matter. It's a joke dude.

what's even funnier is if Sam ended up anyone else in the NFCW faithful would be laughing about it.

it's cool though, this time last yr he was running around here telling us how Lance was gonna throw for 5,000 yards and have 40 TDs. Only took him 30 passes and a little over 4QRs to completely change his opinion there lol.

I don't know how anyone can assert we are in a good spot with Sam starting.

KS probably disagrees. You don't add guys and dress them if you think they are chumps. If they felt Sam was a chump, they wouldn't have inked him to a contract, there were dozens of other QBs avail in FA, and dozens in the draft, they chose Sam Darnold. Just have to ask yourself why that is, or what KS is seeing there. Comp for TL is a good thing.

I mean did I miss something? The cart is way ahead of the horse here.

We just saw this team get decimated at the most important position there is and lost our season because of it. I'm pretty sure the team wanted to build as good of a QB room as they can get with the tools and cap available to them.

I love Sam Darnold as QB3. I hate Sam Darnold as QB1 and scared if he's QB2.

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Bro thinks he knows what Kyle wants at a QB kyle SHOWED everyone what he wants and gave up years of 1st rd picks to get it.

people ever think that the past QBs that Kyle "liked" weren't even up to him? He was never in a position to make the decision on what he wanted…really until now.

Like you said you can find Jones talent later in drafts. They found it with Brock. You move up in the draft to find elite level traits. They clearly need to be developed and people refuse to accept the reality of that.

now I'm not comparing Lance to Mahomes/Allen/Watson at all…but if lance doesn't "fit" what kyle wants. How the f**k do ya'll think those other guys do? They're not robots who just run the play regardless. It's so much backyard football and expending plays…guess they would have all sucked here too.

also let's be real it's not "what fits the system" it's what Kirzay values at QB. Let's at least acknowledge it 😉

"Kyle wants somebody that can understand his offense, that can process information quickly, that can see the field through a lens that makes sense to him to be able to coach it, and for you to kind of see it how he sees it," Beck said on "Papa and Lund." "It doesn't have to be perfect, but he wants you to be able to communicate with him and then be able to process so that in-game communications, during-practice communication, all those things can flow smoothly.

"He's also really big on feet. He wants to be able to tie feet to the scheme, and really vice versa. So, he's very particular about the feet of his quarterback, the eyes of his quarterback, the positioning, and he looks for traits and abilities. Physical abilities would be getting the ball out quickly, being able to drive it to a lot of different places on the field quickly and effortlessly. He loves to be aggressive in play-pass, especially certain areas of the field, so he wants somebody, as they come off the play fake, if those safeties start to cut the underneath routes, or if they get flat-footed, he wants somebody that can drive a ball downfield, and then within space.

From Beck. How much of this sounds like Trey?

You've convinced me. No way Kyle Shanahan drafts Trey Lance.

edit: also question, how come you never put links in the things you quote?

Originally posted by genus49:
You've convinced me. No way Kyle Shanahan drafts Trey Lance.

edit: also question, how come you never put links in the things you quote?

Good question

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Love how he keeps tossing our QB rating... Like he even knows how that stats comes about. I've asked him multiple time to tell me how that number of figured out…crickets. But you know if anyone tosses out PFF data it's a lie. We can show the countless other data points over the course of his whole career…nope that doesn't matter. It's a joke dude.

what's even funnier is if Sam ended up anyone else in the NFCW faithful would be laughing about it.

it's cool though, this time last yr he was running around here telling us how Lance was gonna throw for 5,000 yards and have 40 TDs. Only took him 30 passes and a little over 4QRs to completely change his opinion there lol.

I don't know how anyone can assert we are in a good spot with Sam starting.

KS probably disagrees. You don't add guys and dress them if you think they are chumps. If they felt Sam was a chump, they wouldn't have inked him to a contract, there were dozens of other QBs avail in FA, and dozens in the draft, they chose Sam Darnold. Just have to ask yourself why that is, or what KS is seeing there. Comp for TL is a good thing.

I mean did I miss something? The cart is way ahead of the horse here.

We just saw this team get decimated at the most important position there is and lost our season because of it. I'm pretty sure the team wanted to build as good of a QB room as they can get with the tools and cap available to them.

I love Sam Darnold as QB3. I hate Sam Darnold as QB1 and scared if he's QB2.

I suspect he will dress games. If we wanted a camp arm or a QB3 to be inactive he's not it. We overpaid if that's our plan, I don't think it is.

I don't think BP will be ready for game 1, so both TL and SD I have active if I had to guess now, so this TL & Sam comp is a big deal in my mind, it will decide who starts our season as QB1.

Originally posted by genus49:
This is another reason why I want to see Lance with Kittle and CMC out there.

Did some quick charting on yards gained every time SF ran a read option mesh w/Lance and a RB out of pistol/shotgun.

Whether or not the play was true read option (ex: zone read, QB ctr bash, etc.) or simulated where the QB didn't have a read

16 att, 157 yds, 1 TD, 9.8ypc #49ers pic.twitter.com/wZMvAu06p9

— Rich (@richjmadrid) April 5, 2023

And as I said before...we should cut down Trey's runs but we can still use these plays. His threat to run would still add wrinkles causing issues for defenses.

It's all mathology. 11 on 11 in the run game is an advantage Kyle wanted. 9 yards per carry is ridiculous.

Once you get to the middle rounds for quarterbacks, is there a trait that is a commonality of those that have had success?

You gotta be a very good thrower in this league to be successful. To me you gotta be born to do it. There's only 32 starting quarterbacks in the world and definitely not everyone is happy with all 32 of those either. There's not a ton of guys who have ability to be successful in this league and when you aren't one of those top guys with those throwers, what's the best trait that helps you? Usually it's the guys who can handle adversity. You're going to go through tough times in this league no matter what and it's tough. You gotta have guys who can handle it and some guys get better when they go through it and most guys get worse. Usually it takes a special person to be able to handle it all.

You're talking mental toughness?

Yes.

By good thrower you mean accurate?

I mean all if it. We could sit here and talk about that forever but you gotta be very balanced you gotta be accurate, you gotta have the arm strength to make all of the throws, It's not just about how far you can throw it or how far you can throw, you gotta be able to to throw in the league with no room around you. You're going to get hit in this league. No matter how good your o-line is you're not going to able to block these guys, and you're going to have to be able to sit back on your back foot and deliver the ball.

https://www.ninersnation.com/2017/3/30/15110090/kyle-shanahan-full-transcript-quarterbacks-2017-nfl-draft-bill-walsh-carlos-hyde

Originally posted by krizay:

Once you get to the middle rounds for quarterbacks, is there a trait that is a commonality of those that have had success?

You gotta be a very good thrower in this league to be successful. To me you gotta be born to do it. There's only 32 starting quarterbacks in the world and definitely not everyone is happy with all 32 of those either. There's not a ton of guys who have ability to be successful in this league and when you aren't one of those top guys with those throwers, what's the best trait that helps you? Usually it's the guys who can handle adversity. You're going to go through tough times in this league no matter what and it's tough. You gotta have guys who can handle it and some guys get better when they go through it and most guys get worse. Usually it takes a special person to be able to handle it all.

You're talking mental toughness?

Yes.

By good thrower you mean accurate?

I mean all if it. We could sit here and talk about that forever but you gotta be very balanced you gotta be accurate, you gotta have the arm strength to make all of the throws, It's not just about how far you can throw it or how far you can throw, you gotta be able to to throw in the league with no room around you. You're going to get hit in this league. No matter how good your o-line is you're not going to able to block these guys, and you're going to have to be able to sit back on your back foot and deliver the ball.

https://www.ninersnation.com/2017/3/30/15110090/kyle-shanahan-full-transcript-quarterbacks-2017-nfl-draft-bill-walsh-carlos-hyde

Think anything changed since 2017? Ask his thoughts on QBs after Josh Allen waxed our ass in 2020 season and after we watched Mahomes steal our SB to end 2019.

There is a reason he drafted Trey Lance.

Originally posted by krizay:

Once you get to the middle rounds for quarterbacks, is there a trait that is a commonality of those that have had success?

You gotta be a very good thrower in this league to be successful. To me you gotta be born to do it. There's only 32 starting quarterbacks in the world and definitely not everyone is happy with all 32 of those either. There's not a ton of guys who have ability to be successful in this league and when you aren't one of those top guys with those throwers, what's the best trait that helps you? Usually it's the guys who can handle adversity. You're going to go through tough times in this league no matter what and it's tough. You gotta have guys who can handle it and some guys get better when they go through it and most guys get worse. Usually it takes a special person to be able to handle it all.

You're talking mental toughness?

Yes.

By good thrower you mean accurate?

I mean all if it. We could sit here and talk about that forever but you gotta be very balanced you gotta be accurate, you gotta have the arm strength to make all of the throws, It's not just about how far you can throw it or how far you can throw, you gotta be able to to throw in the league with no room around you. You're going to get hit in this league. No matter how good your o-line is you're not going to able to block these guys, and you're going to have to be able to sit back on your back foot and deliver the ball.

https://www.ninersnation.com/2017/3/30/15110090/kyle-shanahan-full-transcript-quarterbacks-2017-nfl-draft-bill-walsh-carlos-hyde

Valuing mental toughness shows why Mac wasn't the pick