Dallas Cowboys QB Trey Lance Thread

Originally posted by frenchmov:
Well, shanahan and our coaches HAVE been assessing his talent. How he practices, how he picks up the playbook, his understanding, etc.

I agree but you must have reps in real games to make a judgement.

Originally posted by tankle104:
Has Trey had any setbacks With his ankle? I thought he was supposed to be cleared in March? I haven't seen anything but wasn't sure if I missed it.

I'm sure he will be available for OTAs, I'm just more so interested if this will have some sort of impact on his mobility.

it's not an apples to apples comparison, but both my shoulders have dislocated and it's definitely impacted my range of motion. I didn't have surgery though. It's just made me curious if it will make his ankle mobility stiffer. For me, it's not so much I can't move my arms in a certain way, but they dislocate easier and easier Everytime it happens. I imagine he won't have any major issues like I do, since he had surgery.

He was cleared to throw in march but not for contact...not that there's any contact in March or any time in the near future.

He's been throwing and I imagine still working out but we'll find out soon enough.

Originally posted by RishikeshA:

Originally posted by frenchmov:
Well, shanahan and our coaches HAVE been assessing his talent. How he practices, how he picks up the playbook, his understanding, etc.

I agree but you must have reps in real games to make a judgement.

Which Kyle has stated. His words " hard to get better at football, by not playing football" yet here we are lol.

he also said if he was able to play last yr, he thinks he would have been doing the same stuff as Brock. Who knows how much he believes that, but he said it.

Giving up on a player you had so much conviction about (to make the biggest trade in franchise history) after 30 passing attempts and a little over 4QRs of football as our starter…is incredibly stupid and short-sighted. You should be doing everything in your power to develop and make Lance successful…not mentally/physically break him, having him lose reps to a career washout, and basically toss in him the trash (no support at all). So unprofessional imo.

at this point I don't trust our coaching staff to develop a QB. I don't trust Kyle/FO to actually find a legit top 5 QB either…it's one thing to get the most out of a QB, it's another to help develop him into that guy. Not sure Kyle can do that…and I'm one of his biggest supporters.

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by tankle104:
Has Trey had any setbacks With his ankle? I thought he was supposed to be cleared in March? I haven't seen anything but wasn't sure if I missed it.

I'm sure he will be available for OTAs, I'm just more so interested if this will have some sort of impact on his mobility.

it's not an apples to apples comparison, but both my shoulders have dislocated and it's definitely impacted my range of motion. I didn't have surgery though. It's just made me curious if it will make his ankle mobility stiffer. For me, it's not so much I can't move my arms in a certain way, but they dislocate easier and easier Everytime it happens. I imagine he won't have any major issues like I do, since he had surgery.

He was cleared to throw in march but not for contact...not that there's any contact in March or any time in the near future.

He's been throwing and I imagine still working out but we'll find out soon enough.

Everything I've seen so far says he will be full go for all phases of the off season.

Originally posted by RishikeshA:

Originally posted by frenchmov:
Well, shanahan and our coaches HAVE been assessing his talent. How he practices, how he picks up the playbook, his understanding, etc.

I agree but you must have reps in real games to make a judgement.

Maybe we do I don't think KS does.. in fact KS real judgement of the depth chart has to come before the real action starts, based on prax, preseason, etc.

I remember the old Vikings coach he was asked about playing a young QB final week of season, do you want to give this guy a start? He said no. They said, why not aren't you interested in seeing how he looks? He said, I see him every day. This idea that judgement has to be made from real regular season action, tell that to the 40 guys who get cut every year and never get to play in a real game. It's not how real NFL works. Judgement is made from how he does this summer.

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by tankle104:
Has Trey had any setbacks With his ankle? I thought he was supposed to be cleared in March? I haven't seen anything but wasn't sure if I missed it.

I'm sure he will be available for OTAs, I'm just more so interested if this will have some sort of impact on his mobility.

it's not an apples to apples comparison, but both my shoulders have dislocated and it's definitely impacted my range of motion. I didn't have surgery though. It's just made me curious if it will make his ankle mobility stiffer. For me, it's not so much I can't move my arms in a certain way, but they dislocate easier and easier Everytime it happens. I imagine he won't have any major issues like I do, since he had surgery.

He was cleared to throw in march but not for contact...not that there's any contact in March or any time in the near future.

He's been throwing and I imagine still working out but we'll find out soon enough.

That's good news. If he is cleared to train, that's what is important right now. Gives him time to work on his game and be as prepared for camp as possible.

I believe they took out the hardware that was in his ankle, so I'd expect it won't impact his mobility, but that's going to be interesting to follow. I hope it doesn't and it shouldn't - but I'm curious if he will be mentally hesitant to do certain things because of the previous injury. That's more common in injuries like ACL etc. so, it shouldn't be a concern. I'm just curious to follow it.

Jimmy was way different after his ACL tear. It was annoying.

Still to this day, I don't know what the Niners were thinking when they drafted Trey. My nickname for Shanny is "Stubborn Kyle' for a reason. Kyle runs a very specific offense based upon precise, short hitting, accurate plays. We don't need a strong armed QB to run Kyle's offense.

So at what point in the scouting process did Kyle say to himself "wow, I like this kid because he can really throw the ball well which will allow us to rip off some big chunk yards? Forgot the RAC, I want big splashy plays, and Trey Lance is our guy?" Was it a momentary lapse in judgement? Did Kyle forget he is "Stubborn Kyle?" Did Kyle momentarily think "hey I'm FULLY willing to redesign my playbook to adapt to this kid's strengths", then come training camp, change his mind when Trey didn't show the IMMEDIATE ability to make super quick, accurate throws that Kyle prefers?

We draft Trey and then Kyle comes back to reality during training camp and soon discovers their newly drafted wonder boy doesn't have the refined tools to effectively run Kyle's offense!!!!!!!!!!! This is the part that I'll never understand.

In part, I feel really bad for Trey!!!!! Poor kid. He is/was not a good fit for Kyle's offense. It's like the Niners went out and bought a Ferrari and never got it out of first gear. Sorry, but it was a huge brain fart by the Niners FO.

It was a gamble that did not pay off. I hope we learn by our mistakes.

Originally posted by bigpete50:
Still to this day, I don't know what the Niners were thinking when they drafted Trey. My nickname for Shanny is "Stubborn Kyle' for a reason. Kyle runs a very specific offense based upon precise, short hitting, accurate plays. We don't need a strong armed QB to run Kyle's offense.

So at what point in the scouting process did Kyle say to himself "wow, I like this kid because he can really throw the ball well which will allow us to rip off some big chunk yards? Forgot the RAC, I want big splashy plays, and Trey Lance is our guy?" Was it a momentary lapse in judgement? Did Kyle momentarily think "hey I'm FULLY willing to redesign my playbook to adapt to this kid's strengths?"

We draft Trey and then Kyle comes back to reality during training camp and soon discovers their newly drafted wonder boy doesn't have the refined tools to effectively run Kyle's offense!!!!!!!!!!! This is the part that I'll never understand.

In part, I feel really bad for Trey!!!!! Poor kid. He is/was not a good fit for Kyle's offense. It's like the Niners went out and bought a Ferrari and never got it out of first gear. Sorry, but it was a huge brain fart by the Niners FO.

It was a huge gamble that did not pay off. I hope we learn by our mistakes.

Some reports and things the team have said makes it sound like Kyle wanted mac and was then convinced that Lance was the better option, which may well be the case.

I think mac would do just fine here but it would be like a younger version of Kirk. Lol

i just want a damn FQB and I hope it's either Lance or Purdy.

Originally posted by bigpete50:
Still to this day, I don't know what the Niners were thinking when they drafted Trey. My nickname for Shanny is "Stubborn Kyle' for a reason. Kyle runs a very specific offense based upon precise, short hitting, accurate plays. We don't need a strong armed QB to run Kyle's offense.

So at what point in the scouting process did Kyle say to himself "wow, I like this kid because he can really throw the ball well which will allow us to rip off some big chunk yards? Forgot the RAC, I want big splashy plays, and Trey Lance is our guy?" Was it a momentary lapse in judgement? Did Kyle momentarily think "hey I'm FULLY willing to redesign my playbook to adapt to this kid's strengths?"

We draft Trey and then Kyle comes back to reality during training camp and soon discovers their newly drafted wonder boy doesn't have the refined tools to effectively run Kyle's offense!!!!!!!!!!! This is the part that I'll never understand.

In part, I feel really bad for Trey!!!!! Poor kid. He is/was not a good fit for Kyle's offense. It's like the Niners went out and bought a Ferrari and never got it out of first gear. Sorry, but it was a huge brain fart by the Niners FO.

It was a huge gamble that did not pay off. I hope we learn by our mistakes.

He believed in what he didn't see and what he thought he would see.

Originally posted by tankle104:
Some reports and things the team have said makes it sound like Kyle wanted mac and was then convinced that Lance was the better option, which may well be the case.

I think mac would do just fine here but it would be like a younger version of Kirk. Lol

i just want a damn FQB and I hope it's either Lance or Purdy.

Yes! That's the only rational explanation I can think of....

Originally posted by bigpete50:
Still to this day, I don't know what the Niners were thinking when they drafted Trey. My nickname for Shanny is "Stubborn Kyle' for a reason. Kyle runs a very specific offense based upon precise, short hitting, accurate plays. We don't need a strong armed QB to run Kyle's offense.

So at what point in the scouting process did Kyle say to himself "wow, I like this kid because he can really throw the ball well which will allow us to rip off some big chunk yards? Forgot the RAC, I want big splashy plays, and Trey Lance is our guy?" Was it a momentary lapse in judgement? Did Kyle momentarily think "hey I'm FULLY willing to redesign my playbook to adapt to this kid's strengths?"

We draft Trey and then Kyle comes back to reality during training camp and soon discovers their newly drafted wonder boy doesn't have the refined tools to effectively run Kyle's offense!!!!!!!!!!! This is the part that I'll never understand.

In part, I feel really bad for Trey!!!!! Poor kid. He is/was not a good fit for Kyle's offense. It's like the Niners went out and bought a Ferrari and never got it out of first gear. Sorry, but it was a huge brain fart by the Niners FO.

It was a huge gamble that did not pay off. I hope we learn by our mistakes.

Yeah I don't get it. I just don't see him as very talented compared to say Fields. He didn't play as long, or vs that level of comp, he's not that kind of athlete, wasn't that level of prospect. He's ideal in height and weight and can put some velo on it. What else are we looking at here?

At NDSU they asked him to basically bulldoze through the D routinely. He ran for 1100 and 14 scores, which is RB production. Basically 0% of that translates at the NFL level.

I still think he can work if he gets consistent with his base, feet, throws it where he wants it. Don't understand the evaluation at all. He's not a first round QB imo. CK was a better prospect. Speed, cannon, more play in college vs better schools, etc.

Originally posted by bigpete50:
Still to this day, I don't know what the Niners were thinking when they drafted Trey. My nickname for Shanny is "Stubborn Kyle' for a reason. Kyle runs a very specific offense based upon precise, short hitting, accurate plays. We don't need a strong armed QB to run Kyle's offense.

So at what point in the scouting process did Kyle say to himself "wow, I like this kid because he can really throw the ball well which will allow us to rip off some big chunk yards? Forgot the RAC, I want big splashy plays, and Trey Lance is our guy?" Was it a momentary lapse in judgement? Did Kyle momentarily think "hey I'm FULLY willing to redesign my playbook to adapt to this kid's strengths?"

We draft Trey and then Kyle comes back to reality during training camp and soon discovers their newly drafted wonder boy doesn't have the refined tools to effectively run Kyle's offense!!!!!!!!!!! This is the part that I'll never understand.

In part, I feel really bad for Trey!!!!! Poor kid. He is/was not a good fit for Kyle's offense. It's like the Niners went out and bought a Ferrari and never got it out of first gear. Sorry, but it was a huge brain fart by the Niners FO.

It was a huge gamble that did not pay off. I hope we learn by our mistakes.

I think there was a shift in Kyle's offensive philosophy, and that could explain why Lance became Kyle's pick. The signs were there when Kyle gushed about Josh Allen's skillset (big body, strong arm). I think that opened up Kyle's perspective in what he wanted in a QB. Then, the drafting of the trio Lance/Banks/Sermon, with Banks and Sermon excelling at running between the tackles, two players that did not excel at executing outside zone. That tells me Kyle wanted to take the offense in a different direction, away from being primarily outside zone based. When Kyle realized he screwed up the Sermon pick, he went and got TDP, another between the tackles runner.

This all relates to how the league's defense was shifting towards more Quarters (and other two high shells), and going away from single high coverages which were seen frequently across the league from 2010-2018. The Fangio defense that is spreading will have safeties manning up against WRs (Quarters), I think this explains the drafting of Danny Gray, a WR that I think Kyle envisions burning safeties in 1v1 situations.

All this to say that, "Lance isn't a fit for Kyle's offense" suggests that Kyle doesn't change his offense. When I look at the draft choices that Kyle made over the past couple drafts, I think he was changing his offense.

Originally posted by thl408:
I think there was a shift in Kyle's offensive philosophy, and that could explain why Lance became Kyle's pick. The signs were there when Kyle gushed about Josh Allen's skillset (big body, strong arm). I think that opened up Kyle's perspective in what he wanted in a QB. Then, the drafting of the trio Lance/Banks/Sermon, with Banks and Sermon excelling at running between the tackles, two players that did not excel at executing outside zone. That tells me Kyle wanted to take the offense in a different direction, away from being primarily outside zone based. When Kyle realized he screwed up the Sermon pick, he went and got TDP, another between the tackles runner.

This all relates to how the league's defense was shifting towards more Quarters (and other two high shells), and going away from single high coverages which were seen frequently across the league from 2010-2018. The Fangio defense that is spreading will have safeties manning up against WRs (Quarters), I think this explains the drafting of Danny Grey, a WR that I think Kyle envisions burning safeties in 1v1 situations.

All this to say that, "Lance isn't a fit for Kyle's offense" suggests that Kyle doesn't change his offense. When I look at the draft choices that Kyle made over the past couple drafts, I think he was changing his offense.

I felt the same way.. soon as we drafted Banks I knew something was up. I think the point was 11 v 11. QB as a threat in the run game, ability as you mention to run downhill, and arm strength to force Ds to defend 60 yds downfield and the entire 53 1/2 width.

I credit KS for basically having to gameplan for 3+ QBs last season, all of varying experience levels and skill sets. My concern on TL is threefold: 1) durability, 2) is he athletic enough to make the QB run aspect a real threat, 3) is he accurate enough consistently to run this or any offense. As long as he checks boxes 1 & 3 he will last in the NFL if he checks all boxes, he will be the guy we drafted / wanted.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Yeah I don't get it. I just don't see him as very talented compared to say Fields. He didn't play as long, or vs that level of comp, he's not that kind of athlete, wasn't that level of prospect. He's ideal in height and weight and can put some velo on it. What else are we looking at here?

At NDSU they asked him to basically bulldoze through the D routinely. He ran for 1100 and 14 scores, which is RB production. Basically 0% of that translates at the NFL level.

I still think he can work if he gets consistent with his base, feet, throws it where he wants it. Don't understand the evaluation at all. He's not a first round QB imo. CK was a better prospect. Speed, cannon, more play in college vs better schools, etc.

I really would love to know where he would have been drafted if we didn't select him.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
I felt the same way.. soon as we drafted Banks I knew something was up. I think the point was 11 v 11. QB as a threat in the run game, ability as you mention to run downhill, and arm strength to force Ds to defend 60 yds downfield and the entire 53 1/2 width.

I credit KS for basically having to gameplan for 3+ QBs last season, all of varying experience levels and skill sets. My concern on TL is threefold: 1) durability, 2) is he athletic enough to make the QB run aspect a real threat, 3) is he accurate enough consistently to run this or any offense. As long as he checks boxes 1 & 3 he will last in the NFL if he checks all boxes, he will be the guy we drafted / wanted.

4) Is Trey the second coming of Dante Culpepper?