Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by bigpete50:
Still to this day, I don't know what the Niners were thinking when they drafted Trey. My nickname for Shanny is "Stubborn Kyle' for a reason. Kyle runs a very specific offense based upon precise, short hitting, accurate plays. We don't need a strong armed QB to run Kyle's offense.
So at what point in the scouting process did Kyle say to himself "wow, I like this kid because he can really throw the ball well which will allow us to rip off some big chunk yards? Forgot the RAC, I want big splashy plays, and Trey Lance is our guy?" Was it a momentary lapse in judgement? Did Kyle momentarily think "hey I'm FULLY willing to redesign my playbook to adapt to this kid's strengths?"
We draft Trey and then Kyle comes back to reality during training camp and soon discovers their newly drafted wonder boy doesn't have the refined tools to effectively run Kyle's offense!!!!!!!!!!! This is the part that I'll never understand.
In part, I feel really bad for Trey!!!!! Poor kid. He is/was not a good fit for Kyle's offense. It's like the Niners went out and bought a Ferrari and never got it out of first gear. Sorry, but it was a huge brain fart by the Niners FO.
It was a huge gamble that did not pay off. I hope we learn by our mistakes.
I think there was a shift in Kyle's offensive philosophy, and that could explain why Lance became Kyle's pick. The signs were there when Kyle gushed about Josh Allen's skillset (big body, strong arm). I think that opened up Kyle's perspective in what he wanted in a QB. Then, the drafting of the trio Lance/Banks/Sermon, with Banks and Sermon excelling at running between the tackles, two players that did not excel at executing outside zone. That tells me Kyle wanted to take the offense in a different direction, away from being primarily outside zone based. When Kyle realized he screwed up the Sermon pick, he went and got TDP, another between the tackles runner.
This all relates to how the league's defense was shifting towards more Quarters (and other two high shells), and going away from single high coverages which were seen frequently across the league from 2010-2018. The Fangio defense that is spreading will have safeties manning up against WRs (Quarters), I think this explains the drafting of Danny Gray, a WR that I think Kyle envisions burning safeties in 1v1 situations.
All this to say that, "Lance isn't a fit for Kyle's offense" suggests that Kyle doesn't change his offense. When I look at the draft choices that Kyle made over the past couple drafts, I think he was changing his offense.
Yeah you could see a shift regarding the lineman/RBs they brought in and the WRs. I'm old enough to remember we all had a much different idea of what Kyle wanted at WR early on here. It was small quick WRs that could separate. The Pettis and Trent taylor types.
also added elements like this to his offense is evolving/added to his scheme…not sure why people assume it's gonna be the same every yr. This isn't a stagnant thing.
It's fair to point out that while Lance is proof (to me) that Kyle was changing his offense a certain way, Kyle seeing how well Brock played should force Kyle to pivot again. I mentioned above two ways to beat the Fangio stuff. Lance is 'pound the rock, take explosive shots'. Brock has shown he can play the 'dink and dunk' game because his ability to execute the rhythm passing game was evident last season. I don't think Kyle cares how he scores points, he just wants to score points. The best way is to adapt to what the defense is doing, and there is usually more than one way to adapt.
This is a good Athletic article on how offenses should adjust to the Fangio stuff (Brandon Staley). Below are snippets related to what we are talking about.
What I mean by "Fangio stuff" is a Quarters shell with the DL/LB playing a 'gap and half', they are cheating, playing a lighter box, to allow the safeties to play further back and defend the pass. (article stuff in italics).
https://theathletic.com/2817355/2021/09/10/how-offenses-need-to-adapt-to-the-rise-of-the-vic-fangio-brandon-staley-defenses/
Quarters coverage isn't a new idea, but earlier iterations of it were more aggressive, with all four secondary players set in a straight line across the field and the safeties having to quickly trigger to stop the run. "We used to say birds on a wire," Aaron Rodgers said. "So, four guys on the same depth, 8-10 yards, straight across."
The newer type of Quarters sweeping the league is far less daring. Aaron Rodgers says that it's inspired by the "Palms" coverage that Fangio has long favored, which features two high safeties with no role in fitting the run. By removing their run responsibilities, both safeties can play with more depth and help negate throws down the field.
"I think there's gonna be much less margin for error for the efficiency that's necessary," Sean McVay said. "It's much harder to hunt out those explosives. There's a premium on offenses that are efficient and explosive."
If there is one area down the field that offenses feel like they can exploit, it's the space outside the numbers. At the simplest level, Staley's defense makes the game as difficult as possible on quarterbacks, which means it's no surprise that the throws most available to the offense are the ones that are most difficult to make. When asked where offenses can win, multiple coaches brought up the need to have a top-flight quarterback-receiver duo that can exploit the de-facto one-on-one matchups on the outside against Quarters coverage.
"The reliance on being able to throw the ball outside the numbers [will grow,]" Callahan said. "Do you have a guy that can go out and win? Do you have a guy that can throw the ball intermediate, down the field, outside the numbers and still be efficient? Because what they're trying to do is collapse the middle of the field and not allow you to have free reign wherever you want to throw the ball."
"You've got to be able to activate more all-purpose plays," McVay said. "We might be calling something defensively, and based on whatever the play is, it might look like something else. It takes certain plays to really reveal and express exactly what we're doing defensively."
In the passing game, that means calling more multi-use plays that could potentially work against multiple coverages and leaning on concepts where receivers are forced to read and react to the coverage contours in real time.
So, to recap here: the most effective ways to combat this defense include more running (which is inherently less efficient), more short completions (which require longer, mistake-free drives), and simpler play calls less capable of creating chunk gains. With answers like that, there's a reason this system of defense is about to take the league by storm.
Good stuff!
Yeah honestly I don't care if it ends up being Brock or Trey. For me it was people just proclaiming Lance is a failure when in reality he hasn't even had a chance to fail yet.
IMO if Kyle doesn't have the patience to develop a QB then they should have never moved up for one or even drafted one. They should have blown all that draft capital on an already made pro-bowl vet or brought in a Brady.
I know we all loved Brock and his good yet small sample size…but do people think he won't toss Brock aside if he has a couple poor games all the same? If he's not playing at that high level and having that high end TD/INT ratio? I wouldn't be shocked at all. A couple good games only gets you so far, especially when they invested nothing in you.
I think there was a reason why Kyle said when he was looking at HC gigs he wanted to go to a place that already had a strong vet QB in place. He doesn't want to invest the time to create a top 5 QB.
