Dallas Cowboys QB Trey Lance Thread

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by CharlieSheen:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by CharlieSheen:

They'd probably see big strong arm Trey as a good replacement too. They made a mistake valuing physical over mental. Same thing Trey fans are doing

Or they saw a guy who wasn't accurate with a limited physical skillset who they didn't trust to be the guy. The mental part developed once he got with Sean Payton. It wasn't "Always There". It had to be brought out.

Chargers saw a small QB with limited arm strength and thought he couldn't be great. They were wrong

Did Payton get it out of his boy Taysom Hill? You either have it or you don't

Peyton Manning, Patrick Mahomes, Aaron Rodgers... all of them should receive the "doesn't have it" label if you base all your opinions about player for their first year.

And Trey has less than that.

I can tell by watching him. I don't think it's impossible to improve, but these are the kinds of things you pray happens when you don't have a guy that's already showing these traits. With Trey basically playing no real football outside of a few games with us, he's so far off I think the FO has kinda waved the white flag. If he blows them away of course he'll play, but Kyle and John's actions show they don't think that is likely

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Or they saw a guy who wasn't accurate with a limited physical skillset who they didn't trust to be the guy. The mental part developed once he got with Sean Payton. It wasn't "Always There". It had to be brought out.

They certainly didn't trust Brees to be the guy when they drafted Rivers, but the section I bolded is pretty far removed from what actually happened. Rivers sat on the bench for two years behind Brees. Brees was an offensive player of the year candidate during Rivers' rookie season and the Chargers were a 'surprise' 12-4 playoff team. The following year (2005) he and the team regressed bit and he had a serious shoulder injury in the last game of the season. They still offered him a longterm contract which he turned down before eventually signing with the Saints. He was already established as a very good, and especially accurate QB, at that time.

Originally posted by tankle104:

Originally posted by DonnieDarko:
anyone see benjamin albrights meltdown on twitter? what a weirdo. ive seen you guys post his tweets here a few times

I haven't. Is it worth looking up? Lol

im trying to find it but haven't send anything related to the 49ers

he ranted about how he sent dick pics to his ex gf and emotionally cheated on his partner, so bizarre. he deleted it all.

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by Furlow:
I'm confused. Are you saying that the clip is meaningless and we shouldn't be talking about it?

Sorry if I cut this short too fast but ....really? So 1 throw is what you were talking about?

You cant take 1 recorded sample and claim a person is "doing it more" now. Until the bullets start flying, we have little idea of whether he will revert back to what is most comfortable (like most players) or if there's really some notable changes.

But 1 throw? Let's just let this one go man. The victory lap attempt came way too early.

Dude you have serious reading comprehension issues. Whether it's one throw or a thousand, multiple posters were celebrating the fact that Trey's throwing motion was more over the top, and the ball was a spiral. My point was that when I brought those things up as a deficiency last year, I was told it didn't matter. I was only talking about the irony of it. I also used a Batman meme which made it much more of a joke than anything. Nothing for me to do a "victory lap" about, nor was what I said in any way a "victory lap."

You're trying WAY too hard.

Originally posted by CharlieSheen:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by CharlieSheen:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by CharlieSheen:
They'd probably see big strong arm Trey as a good replacement too. They made a mistake valuing physical over mental. Same thing Trey fans are doing

Or they saw a guy who wasn't accurate with a limited physical skillset who they didn't trust to be the guy. The mental part developed once he got with Sean Payton. It wasn't "Always There". It had to be brought out.

Chargers saw a small QB with limited arm strength and thought he couldn't be great. They were wrong

Did Payton get it out of his boy Taysom Hill? You either have it or you don't

Peyton Manning, Patrick Mahomes, Aaron Rodgers... all of them should receive the "doesn't have it" label if you base all your opinions about player for their first year.

And Trey has less than that.

I can tell by watching him. I don't think it's impossible to improve, but these are the kinds of things you pray happens when you don't have a guy that's already showing these traits. With Trey basically playing no real football outside of a few games with us, he's so far off I think the FO has kinda waved the white flag. If he blows them away of course he'll play, but Kyle and John's actions show they don't think that is likely.

Time for Trey to put his Big Boy pants on and go compete. I know he's had some lumps in the road, but this is his third year in the league, all with the same system, coach, and team. He now has a chance to show he's a better option than Sam Darnold, and I'm not sure he can. If he's qb3, he's Still not going to get that experience everybody wants to see, and then if someone were to trade for him, they'd have to decide whether to excercise his 5th year option with Never having a chance to see him play or prove it.

If he can't beat out Darnold, or if the FO in fact doesn't think that is likely by the draft, he'd have more trade value now than after he falls further down our depth chart, has fewer years left on his contract, and the new team would be facing a $20m option year just to get a chance to try him out or go naked on a one year deal. That value is just about zero. Now, he's a very high pick that's just been injured and untried and superseded by a phenom, and there is still value there.

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by CharlieSheen:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by CharlieSheen:
They'd probably see big strong arm Trey as a good replacement too. They made a mistake valuing physical over mental. Same thing Trey fans are doing

Or they saw a guy who wasn't accurate with a limited physical skillset who they didn't trust to be the guy. The mental part developed once he got with Sean Payton. It wasn't "Always There". It had to be brought out.

Chargers saw a small QB with limited arm strength and thought he couldn't be great. They were wrong

Did Payton get it out of his boy Taysom Hill? You either have it or you don't

Peyton Manning, Patrick Mahomes, Aaron Rodgers... all of them should receive the "doesn't have it" label if you base all your opinions about player for their first year.

And Trey has less than that.

Not at all. Lol if you watched them play early on, it was clear they had it and just needed some more in game experience to work out the kinks of learning the nfl game. Mahommes was blowing everyone away in practice his rookie year. Manning is manning, Rodgers did benefit a lot from sitting - he reworked his throwing motion and mechanics etc.

it is true that Lance has such a small sample size that we really don't know, can't make any concrete stances. We can only go off of the little we've seen from him and it hasn't been very good.

What gets me about him is the commentary from guys like kittle before last season began - it says that they don't have much faith in him.

idk if Lance will be any good. We will have to wait and see, but my preference would be to not see him play unless Purdy isn't fully recovered. Who knows what will happen.

Originally posted by BOI49er:
Time for Trey to put his Big Boy pants on and go compete. I know he's had some lumps in the road, but this is his third year in the league, all with the same system, coach, and team. He now has a chance to show he's a better option than Sam Darnold, and I'm not sure he can. If he's qb3, he's Still not going to get that experience everybody wants to see, and then if someone were to trade for him, they'd have to decide whether to excercise his 5th year option with Never having a chance to see him play or prove it.

If he can't beat out Darnold, or if the FO in fact doesn't think that is likely by the draft, he'd have more trade value now than after he falls further down our depth chart, has fewer years left on his contract, and the new team would be facing a $20m option year just to get a chance to try him out or go naked on a one year deal. That value is just about zero. Now, he's a very high pick that's just been injured and untried and superseded by a phenom, and there is still value there.

https://youtu.be/3QofyMa_OUw
This is an interesting take on the difference in offense between Purdy and Lance

Originally posted by CharlieSheen:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by CharlieSheen:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by CharlieSheen:
They'd probably see big strong arm Trey as a good replacement too. They made a mistake valuing physical over mental. Same thing Trey fans are doing

Or they saw a guy who wasn't accurate with a limited physical skillset who they didn't trust to be the guy. The mental part developed once he got with Sean Payton. It wasn't "Always There". It had to be brought out.

Chargers saw a small QB with limited arm strength and thought he couldn't be great. They were wrong

Did Payton get it out of his boy Taysom Hill? You either have it or you don't

Peyton Manning, Patrick Mahomes, Aaron Rodgers... all of them should receive the "doesn't have it" label if you base all your opinions about player for their first year.

And Trey has less than that.

I can tell by watching him. I don't think it's impossible to improve, but these are the kinds of things you pray happens when you don't have a guy that's already showing these traits. With Trey basically playing no real football outside of a few games with us, he's so far off I think the FO has kinda waved the white flag. If he blows them away of course he'll play, but Kyle and John's actions show they don't think that is likely

IMO nearly all of Trey's issues are directly correlated to lack of experience. His timing and rhythm in the offense, the mechanical problems with his footwork which causes accuracy issues and so on.

What I don't get is people making comments like "made a mistake valuing physical over mental" acting as if Trey is some meathead. He was widely considered one of the smartest QBs in the draft. Was he not? I mean, when you listen to him, like really listen to him, IMO he comes off as a very intelligent young man. I don't think you have to pretend that Purdy is the only player with brains and Trey is all brawn. I just don't understand why some posters constantly downplay the QB they don't like.

So far from what I've seen, Purdy has enough physical and mental ability to be a very very good starting QB. He deserves to be the "leader of the clubhouse" as Lynch describes it and I'll be happy as anyone if he takes the job and never looks back because that means we're winning.

I also don't think having a stronger arm or being faster makes Trey the ideal franchise QB over Purdy. Some people are arguing that Trey's physical tools are enough reason for him to be the more desirable franchise QB for the future. I don't agree with that. I want the best QB. Period.

But I do think posters like yourself are making too many definitive claims about Trey after 3 games and that Trey has a lot more potential in areas where people are already writing him off.

Essentially I think Lance's mental ability is underrated when compared to Purdy, and Purdy's physical ability is underrated when compared to Lance.

I believe in both QBs a lot, they both have a lot of promise, but I also acknowledge that Lance should be feeling a lot pressure since he hasn't shown nearly as much on the field.

Originally posted by tankle104:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by CharlieSheen:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by CharlieSheen:
They'd probably see big strong arm Trey as a good replacement too. They made a mistake valuing physical over mental. Same thing Trey fans are doing

Or they saw a guy who wasn't accurate with a limited physical skillset who they didn't trust to be the guy. The mental part developed once he got with Sean Payton. It wasn't "Always There". It had to be brought out.

Chargers saw a small QB with limited arm strength and thought he couldn't be great. They were wrong

Did Payton get it out of his boy Taysom Hill? You either have it or you don't

Peyton Manning, Patrick Mahomes, Aaron Rodgers... all of them should receive the "doesn't have it" label if you base all your opinions about player for their first year.

And Trey has less than that.

Not at all. Lol if you watched them play early on, it was clear they had it and just needed some more in game experience to work out the kinks of learning the nfl game. Mahommes was blowing everyone away in practice his rookie year. Manning is manning, Rodgers did benefit a lot from sitting - he reworked his throwing motion and mechanics etc.

it is true that Lance has such a small sample size that we really don't know, can't make any concrete stances. We can only go off of the little we've seen from him and it hasn't been very good.

What gets me about him is the commentary from guys like kittle before last season began - it says that they don't have much faith in him.

idk if Lance will be any good. We will have to wait and see, but my preference would be to not see him play unless Purdy isn't fully recovered. Who knows what will happen.

Like when Kittle compared Trey to Josh Allen? What comments are you talking about?

And Manning was not Manning right away, neither was Rodgers. The argument was the "you either have it, or you don't" and I just think that's a vast oversimplification on so many levels.

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by CharlieSheen:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by CharlieSheen:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by CharlieSheen:

They'd probably see big strong arm Trey as a good replacement too. They made a mistake valuing physical over mental. Same thing Trey fans are doing

Or they saw a guy who wasn't accurate with a limited physical skillset who they didn't trust to be the guy. The mental part developed once he got with Sean Payton. It wasn't "Always There". It had to be brought out.

Chargers saw a small QB with limited arm strength and thought he couldn't be great. They were wrong

Did Payton get it out of his boy Taysom Hill? You either have it or you don't

Peyton Manning, Patrick Mahomes, Aaron Rodgers... all of them should receive the "doesn't have it" label if you base all your opinions about player for their first year.

And Trey has less than that.

I can tell by watching him. I don't think it's impossible to improve, but these are the kinds of things you pray happens when you don't have a guy that's already showing these traits. With Trey basically playing no real football outside of a few games with us, he's so far off I think the FO has kinda waved the white flag. If he blows them away of course he'll play, but Kyle and John's actions show they don't think that is likely

IMO nearly all of Trey's issues are directly correlated to lack of experience. His timing and rhythm in the offense, the mechanical problems with his footwork which causes accuracy issues and so on.

What I don't get is people making comments like "made a mistake valuing physical over mental" acting as if Trey is some meathead. He was widely considered one of the smartest QBs in the draft. Was he not? I mean, when you listen to him, like really listen to him, IMO he comes off as a very intelligent young man. I don't think you have to pretend that Purdy is the only player with brains and Trey is all brawn. I just don't understand why some posters constantly downplay the QB they don't like.

So far from what I've seen, Purdy has enough physical and mental ability to be a very very good starting QB. He deserves to be the "leader of the clubhouse" as Lynch describes it and I'll be happy as anyone if he takes the job and never looks back because that means we're winning.

I also don't think having a stronger arm or being faster makes Trey the ideal franchise QB over Purdy. Some people are arguing that Trey's physical tools are enough reason for him to be the more desirable franchise QB for the future. I don't agree with that. I want the best QB. Period.

But I do think posters like yourself are making too many definitive claims about Trey after 3 games and that Trey has a lot more potential in areas where people are already writing him off.

Essentially I think Lance's mental ability is underrated when compared to Purdy, and Purdy's physical ability is underrated when compared to Lance.

I believe in both QBs a lot, they both have a lot of promise, but I also acknowledge that Lance should be feeling a lot pressure since he hasn't shown nearly as much on the field.

People keep bringing up Lances physical traits as to why Purdy could never be him, that's where the valuing physical over mental comes from.

We are talking mental on a football field. How do you process and read the field while under the pressure of NFL defenses? That guy playing for the Titans is a rocket scientist or something, but get a few lineman chasing after him and he suddenly doesn't seem so smart. I don't think anyone is knocking Treys intelligence when they say Brock plays smarter

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by tankle104:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by CharlieSheen:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by CharlieSheen:
They'd probably see big strong arm Trey as a good replacement too. They made a mistake valuing physical over mental. Same thing Trey fans are doing

Or they saw a guy who wasn't accurate with a limited physical skillset who they didn't trust to be the guy. The mental part developed once he got with Sean Payton. It wasn't "Always There". It had to be brought out.

Chargers saw a small QB with limited arm strength and thought he couldn't be great. They were wrong

Did Payton get it out of his boy Taysom Hill? You either have it or you don't

Peyton Manning, Patrick Mahomes, Aaron Rodgers... all of them should receive the "doesn't have it" label if you base all your opinions about player for their first year.

And Trey has less than that.

Not at all. Lol if you watched them play early on, it was clear they had it and just needed some more in game experience to work out the kinks of learning the nfl game. Mahommes was blowing everyone away in practice his rookie year. Manning is manning, Rodgers did benefit a lot from sitting - he reworked his throwing motion and mechanics etc.

it is true that Lance has such a small sample size that we really don't know, can't make any concrete stances. We can only go off of the little we've seen from him and it hasn't been very good.

What gets me about him is the commentary from guys like kittle before last season began - it says that they don't have much faith in him.

idk if Lance will be any good. We will have to wait and see, but my preference would be to not see him play unless Purdy isn't fully recovered. Who knows what will happen.

Like when Kittle compared Trey to Josh Allen? What comments are you talking about?

And Manning was not Manning right away, neither was Rodgers. The argument was the "you either have it, or you don't" and I just think that's a vast oversimplification on so many levels.

Or when kittle & others said (I'm paraphrasing cause I don't feel like looking it up) "we will have to help him out and as long as he doesn't throw multiple picks, we should be okay". That isn't exactly a ringing endorsement.

that sticks with me because demeco Ryan's has said how a bunch of the defensive players and others came up to him In camp raving about Purdy and how he has "it".

if I was hearing that from players or reporters saying they're hearing that from players about Lance, it would be different. Only time you usually see people saying good things about Lance is at scheduled press conferences where they're coached up on what not to say or they're careful what they say on scheduled podcasts.

im not saying no one believe in him. It's a big roster and everyone will have different opinions, just like on here, but based on what I've heard/seen from kittle, bosa, Warner, as well as multiple reporters saying that the players are much quicker to praise Purdy in comparison to Lance - says a lot to me. They tend to just give prototype standard answers about Lance because you'd have to be a real POS to publically talk negative about a teammate.

i don't want to get into a debate about this cause we can't read peoples minds and don't know them personally. I'm just giving my takeaways and interpretations. If/when Lance plays, I'll 1000% be supporting him and won't be just waiting for him to make a bad play so I can trash on him. I just don't have the same confidence in him as others, that's all it is. I still hope he balls. All I really want is a FQB. I just don't see it in what I've seen from Lance over the course of his entire football career - highschool/college/NFL

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
Your talking about pedagogical learning. Sport specific ideas expressed in language. Thats what athletes do with film indtruction, reading playbook, listening to coaches precepts.

The part of the brain that stores and cognitively processes language SHUTS DOWN when the ball is snapped. The athlete no longer references pedagogical concepts when they running for their lives.

That is an important distinction. Which influences athlete performance and training methodology.

So why did Brock's cognitive process not good in college? Part of the reason he was the last pick in the draft was because he wasn't good there.

here's his scouting report

Poise: Purdy does not respond well to pressure. His first reaction to pressure is to escape the pocket and attempt to pick up yardage with his feet. At times under pressure, Purdy will force an unwarranted pass into coverage that at best becomes an incomplete pass.

Progressions: Purdy operates in a progression-based offense that works all levels of the field. Purdy struggles to comfortably work through all of his progressions. In most situations, Purdy gets stuck on his first option, and if that receiver isn't open he instantly looks for his check-down.

He wasn't good? He started all four years.

He was drafted last because he had an average arm and small hands. Like joe.

My guess is that the scouting report is wrong or off base. Does the scout know what the play requires and what the coach is yelling? Probably not.

Also, athletes improve with experience...by playing not so mich through verbal instruction. The point is, cognitive performance cant be coached up or talked up.

Originally posted by Waterbear:
Like when Kittle compared Trey to Josh Allen? What comments are you talking about?

And Manning was not Manning right away, neither was Rodgers. The argument was the "you either have it, or you don't" and I just think that's a vast oversimplification on so many levels.

I wouldn't put Manning in any of these TL convos.. if you are talking Peyton Manning, he was a 4 year SEC starter, son of an NFL QB, and a generational prospect. He was drafted to a team that earned #1 overall, and put up near 4k yards and 26 pass TDs. Realize Joe or Steve never hit 4k yards in their careers in that era.. so he essentially matched (or came close) to their highest single season yards output, year 1. In fact his completions, attempts, yards and TDs were all rookie NFL records for a QB. Finished 2nd in ROY voting, to rookie Randy Moss.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Or they saw a guy who wasn't accurate with a limited physical skillset who they didn't trust to be the guy. The mental part developed once he got with Sean Payton. It wasn't "Always There". It had to be brought out.

They certainly didn't trust Brees to be the guy when they drafted Rivers, but the section I bolded is pretty far removed from what actually happened. Rivers sat on the bench for two years behind Brees. Brees was an offensive player of the year candidate during Rivers' rookie season and the Chargers were a 'surprise' 12-4 playoff team. The following year (2005) he and the team regressed bit and he had a serious shoulder injury in the last game of the season. They still offered him a longterm contract which he turned down before eventually signing with the Saints. He was already established as a very good, and especially accurate QB, at that time.

Lol the chargers are notorious for being a crap organization and cheap. They s**t the bed every year for a reason, even when they have a great roster and good coaching.

Best thing that ever happened to Bree's was Payton and vice versa. Bree's always had it, but it's a combination of things to make great things happen.