Dallas Cowboys QB Trey Lance Thread

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Heinicke had a 7 game stretch of top 5 ball. So that's his ceiling? Keenum had a whole season of playing at a top level QB. Is that his ceiling?

even Jimmy had a couple games stretches of top 5 play. That doesn't conclude that that's their ceiling imo. Joe blow can go out and score 40pts in a NBA game a couple times…that's not who they are as a NBA though….It's a couple games of good football on a really good roster. If Lance goes out and plays top 5 ball for a couple games…I'm sure you will be running around tossing out every doubt you could possibly find. Every bad play. Every well he didn't him him in stride here blah blah blah.

no I don't think Brock's skill set is that of a top 5 QB and I'm talking about sustainable. Not for a couple games. hopefully he proves me wrong because unlike the Trey hater club I don't give a s**t who's the guy. I just want there to be a guy. I don't want Jimmy G 2.0. I don't want Kirk 2.0. I want a bona fide elite QB. I want the league to think well SF has *insert name* at QB so they're gonna be favorites to win it all every yr for the next decade.

Can you provide the stats on the stretches you're talking about? Cause I've always felt those guys were trash and never played at a top 5 level. Ever. Even just watching them you could tell they weren't top QBs. Unless you're just talking about passing yards? Which are a useless stat when talking about someone being a top qb. Can have 400 throwing yards and 0tds and get shut out. That's horrible qb play as a whole.

what gives me confidence in Purdy is how
1. He's only played at a top level in his 8 games
2. His composure, leadership, and execution of the offense was like a 10 year all pro vet. He made very few "rookie" mistakes.
3. His stats and the overall offenses stats - everytbing ran like a well oiled machine
4. won in quite a few ways. Even when the defense played horrible (raiders) and could fight its way out of a wet paper bag
5. his performance in the playoffs was special too, especially for a rookie. I think the greatest measure of a QBs potential is how they perform in the playoffs.

none of that is luck. It's just extremely impressive in every way and very sustainable. He didn't have to use any special athleticism or things like that to beat a defense. Just plain old awesome qb play.

Originally posted by Waterbear:
Yeah idk the answer to that question. Ryan Tannehill had top 3 numbers one year, does that mean that's his ceiling?

I don't think it's accurate to say Lance has a higher ceiling than Purdy. We don't know if that's true or not. I would say it's possible that Lance adds more elements to the offense, vertical passing game and running ability, but it's entirely possible from what I saw of Purdy that he has the higher ceiling.

I think both QBs have a lot of potential. But I don't think it's fair to use the ceiling argument for why Trey needs to be the guy.

Everyone's definition of what ceiling or upside means is different…if you're big strong have an elite arm with great football IQ. I'd say you probably have a higher probability to reach the pinnacle of elite at QB. Not saying you will. Same s**t with any position.

if your short and have an avg arm, the chances of you reaching that status is much much hard. You need to rely on other skill sets and things around you imo. Doesn't mean you can get there, just much harder.

it's part of the reason why higher end 1st rd picks get more opportunities. They're usually checking boxes for other things like athleticism/strength/speed/length/arm talent etc.

There's a reason Brock was the last pick in the draft. Not because he didn't play a lot of football or didn't have a great football IQ. It was things that he couldn't improve upon (and some meh film down the road). Doesn't mean he can't get there…he fell into the perfect spot for him. I mean guys like Hasselbeck and Romo got it done as well.

Originally posted by tankle104:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Heinicke had a 7 game stretch of top 5 ball. So that's his ceiling? Keenum had a whole season of playing at a top level QB. Is that his ceiling?

even Jimmy had a couple games stretches of top 5 play. That doesn't conclude that that's their ceiling imo. Joe blow can go out and score 40pts in a NBA game a couple times…that's not who they are as a NBA though….It's a couple games of good football on a really good roster. If Lance goes out and plays top 5 ball for a couple games…I'm sure you will be running around tossing out every doubt you could possibly find. Every bad play. Every well he didn't him him in stride here blah blah blah.

no I don't think Brock's skill set is that of a top 5 QB and I'm talking about sustainable. Not for a couple games. hopefully he proves me wrong because unlike the Trey hater club I don't give a s**t who's the guy. I just want there to be a guy. I don't want Jimmy G 2.0. I don't want Kirk 2.0. I want a bona fide elite QB. I want the league to think well SF has *insert name* at QB so they're gonna be favorites to win it all every yr for the next decade.

Can you provide the stats on the stretches you're talking about? Cause I've always felt those guys were trash and never played at a top 5 level. Ever. Even just watching them you could tell they weren't top QBs. Unless you're just talking about passing yards? Which are a useless stat when talking about someone being a top qb. Can have 400 throwing yards and 0tds and get shut out. That's horrible qb play as a whole.

what gives me confidence in Purdy is how
1. He's only played at a top level in his 8 games
2. His composure, leadership, and execution of the offense was like a 10 year all pro vet. He made very few "rookie" mistakes.
3. His stats and the overall offenses stats - everytbing ran like a well oiled machine
4. won in quite a few ways. Even when the defense played horrible (raiders) and could fight its way out of a wet paper bag
5. his performance in the playoffs was special too, especially for a rookie. I think the greatest measure of a QBs potential is how they perform in the playoffs.

none of that is luck. It's just extremely impressive in every way and very sustainable. He didn't have to use any special athleticism or things like that to beat a defense. Just plain old awesome qb play.

I doubt we get an answer but I am with you I don't recall any such stretch from Heinicke, he had a very good game vs Tampa in the playoffs, that was one game.

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by CharlieSheen:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by CharlieSheen:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by CharlieSheen:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by CharlieSheen:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by CharlieSheen:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by CharlieSheen:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by CharlieSheen:

They didn't think he would be the project he is.

They have a QB they can win a SB with, and Trey is so far behind there's just no point now. They aren't going to extend him based on hope. Might as well get what you can while you can

Originally posted by CharlieSheen:

The only people with a good idea of where he's at are within the organization.

Basing my opinion off their actions/comments from the players

Sorry. I call BS on that.

Those type of comments are expected. They have let things slip that tell me they aren't sure about him.

Again, what are these comments you're hearing from the players? The only one I saw you posted was the one that Kittle said Trey just doesn't have to mess things up (or something like that). This is your whole basis for saying the players don't like him? It's quite a stretch.

Now you're saying the team wants to trade him, but in reality, that report was from a rumor page with 5000 subs. That page is far from being credible, yet you're convinced its true.

I don't find either of these opinions very objective at all. That's my issue with your recent posts.

I've been on record saying that if I was a betting man that I would assume Purdy is our future. I want the best QB possible, whether that's Purdy or Lance is irrelevant to me. I also have no problem with people not believing in Lance or believing that Lance needs to essentially put up or shut up. He absolutely does at this point.

But you continue to post extremely subjective comments and you act as if they're objective facts. For example:

"They didn't think he would be the project he is."

"And judging by their actions, he's more green than they thought he would be"

"Trey is so far behind there's just no point now."

"They're going for a SB, which means they are going with Brock, which also means Trey will not develop, which means he won't get resigned here, which means they should probably trade him and get something instead of nothing"

"they don't think Trey is going to help if Brock's not ready. Brock's status doesn't matter, they will get rid of him if they get what they're asking for"

I really don't get the pushback on a 22 year old player that's completed 3 games. Having a strong opinion about him one way or the other shows bias IMO. I've repeatedly argued that Trey is and should be treated like an unknown. I argued he should not be considered an upgrade to Jimmy or a downgrade to Purdy until he has a chance to play more. That's the most rational perspective IMO.

I said they were looking to trade him before that dumb twitter post. If you were excited to play with a guy and thought he was going to ball out, you wouldn't say the things Bosa and Kittle said. I know the Chiefs players weren't like "Yea luckily he's in a good situation so if he doesn't f**k up we should be good", when Mahomes came in. These guys struggle to hype him up beyond his upside and say things that just make me scratch my head.

Again, do you have links to these comments? What are you basing your opinion that they will trade Lance on?

Patrick Mahomes had over 1000 more passing attempts than Lance did in college. It's almost as if you need to play to get better.

No, he doesnt have links to any of these comments. He is basing his opinion that they will trade Lance off of his biases and hope to be correct.

It's not worth linking all the comments. We would go down another rabbit hole of everyone demanding explanation of each comment. Then you guys wouldn't agree anyways so like I said not worth it

You need to understand how saying stuff like this comes off. Its basically admitting you dont have what you are claiming to.

On a related note....you realize that "you guys" are people who simply think Trey is an unknown, not people who are Trey homers, right? Its funny you keep trying to make this about Brock vs Trey fans....but the "Trey fans" are simply people like me who would like to see him play before we make definitive statements about him.

Moving on.

No we would go down a rabbit hole that I don't care to go down but believe what you want.

Why bother posting at all then? Basically you are saying is it is ok to make claims and not back them up because you dont want to have a discussion about it. Just a ridiculous position to have on a message board, but you do you Charlie.

I'm not going to go through the trouble of finding all the links and explaining it all when you guys are just going blow it all off anyways. It's truly a waste

From the beginning of the offseason I started calling it that Treys development will not work here. I knew it because of the comments I've read (along with a few other things). Even comments like "He's getting better, I can see it!"……..at the time told me they aren't completely confident in him yet, but after Brock it told me Treys not going to cut it anymore.

I knew these players/coaches wouldn't want to keep investing their future and living on the hope that Trey will keep getting better, when he has a mountain to climb and likely won't become elite. There isn't even a guarantee he's going to be good, so at this point why keep moving forward with him? Draft status isn't enough

If you had links to what you claim you have, then there would be no dismissing it or blowing it off. But you know you dont.

You are basically advertising to everyone that you possibly have some vague statements that you will twist to fit your narrative, and you know that people are going to disagree with (or you are making up these quotes entirely)....which is why you dont even want to post the links. We all see right through this dude.

They are comments that I perceived a certain way at the time that helped me paint the overall picture that Trey is not going to work out with the 49ers. I don't feel like explaining my angle on all the comments, it's a pointless argument. Are you going to tell me I didn't perceive the comments the way I did or something? It's just going to end in disagreement so I don't see the point

Originally posted by tankle104:
Can you provide the stats on the stretches you're talking about?

Heinicke completed 71.5% avg 230 yards and his QB rating was 95.6. His teammates were calling him baby Wilson

Keenum throughout 15 games in 2017 completed 68% of his passes for 3,600 yards and had a QB rating of 98.2 and brought Minn to the NFCC

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
I doubt we get an answer but I am with you I don't recall any such stretch from Heinicke, he had a very good game vs Tampa in the playoffs, that was one game.

2021 W6-W12 and the 2021 Commanders did not have a great team….their top two WRs were McLaurin and Adam Humphries

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:


"I don't care who the guy is, but Brock isn't it" - NY

what happened to you can't make declarative statements about a guy... based on limited starts, when BP has 5 career starts

why does that logic apply to TL but not BP?

This is the part that got me lol

" If Lance goes out and plays top 5 ball for a couple games…I'm sure you will be running around tossing out every doubt you could possibly find. Every bad play."

Isnt that exactly what is happening with Purdy? And It's not a what if.

Some posters need to be more self aware

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
I doubt we get an answer but I am with you I don't recall any such stretch from Heinicke, he had a very good game vs Tampa in the playoffs, that was one game.

2021 W6-W12 and the 2021 Commanders did not have a great team.

he begins that stretch with this:

rating 70
rating 86
rating 69

3 pass TD, 4 Int

how do you get top 5 from that.. TL wouldn't say that's top 5.. maybe top 5 in the NFC East, I'll give you that.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Heinicke completed 71.5% avg 230 yards and his QB rating was 95.6. His teammates were calling him baby Wilson

Keenum throughout 15 games in 2017 completed 68% of his passes for 3,600 yards and had a QB rating of 98.2 and brought Minn to the NFCC

lol that ain't top 5..

in 2021 a 95 rating would not get you top 10

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by tankle104:
Can you provide the stats on the stretches you're talking about?

Heinicke completed 71.5% avg 230 yards and his QB rating was 95.6. His teammates were calling him baby Wilson

Keenum throughout 15 games in 2017 completed 68% of his passes for 3,600 yards and had a QB rating of 98.2 and brought Minn to the NFCC

But what were his TD-INT? Cause those look awful from what I'm looking at. How were third down conversions? How did he play in the redzone?

i really don't know if he played well or not but those are a few of the critical aspects of being considered a top 5 qb.

Calling him baby Wilson is hilarious. Lol if I remember right, it was cause he was running for his life avoiding defenders. Poor guy.

Comments like those are why I'm always cautious of believing what players say about teammates. I watch their body language and secondary words to try and get a feel for their actual opinion. Subconscious says a lot. Whoever called him baby Wilson is a moron. Hahah bet he doesn't want to be baby Wilson now, outside of cashing checks.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:


"I don't care who the guy is, but Brock isn't it" - NY

what happened to you can't make declarative statements about a guy... based on limited starts, when BP has 5 career starts

why does that logic apply to TL but not BP?

Don't ever f**king quote me and lie about what I said again.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:


"I don't care who the guy is, but Brock isn't it" - NY

what happened to you can't make declarative statements about a guy... based on limited starts, when BP has 5 career starts

why does that logic apply to TL but not BP?

Don't ever f**king quote me and lie about what I said again.

I replied with quote, so ppl could read everything you wrote, make up their own mind... you left your original quote off.. I did not.

Originally posted by tankle104:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by tankle104:
Can you provide the stats on the stretches you're talking about?

Heinicke completed 71.5% avg 230 yards and his QB rating was 95.6. His teammates were calling him baby Wilson

Keenum throughout 15 games in 2017 completed 68% of his passes for 3,600 yards and had a QB rating of 98.2 and brought Minn to the NFCC

But what were his TD-INT? Cause those look awful from what I'm looking at. How were third down conversions? How did he play in the redzone?

i really don't know if he played well or not but those are a few of the critical aspects of being considered a top 5 qb.

Wait ya'll be running around talking about QB rating and now that stat doesn't matter? TD/INT is about as fluid as it gets man….there's a handful of plays from Brock's 170 passing attempts that could have been INTs. That has nothing to do with him and more to do about the defense dropping balls. TDs have just as much to do with scheme and the talent around him. DC and SF weren't in the same realm. I'm not saying Brock didn't play well…neither did TH (on that team) or Keenum.

Keenum went 12-3 (winning matters I was told) and 22/7 TD/INT on 480 passing attempts.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:


I replied with quote, so ppl could read everything you wrote, make up their own mind... you left your original quote off.. I did not.

I didn't not say those exact words! like I said don't f**king quote me when that's not exactly what I said.

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:
This is the part that got me lol

" If Lance goes out and plays top 5 ball for a couple games…I'm sure you will be running around tossing out every doubt you could possibly find. Every bad play."

Isnt that exactly what is happening with Purdy? And It's not a what if.

Some posters need to be more self aware

I'm sure you will be doing it. In fact I know you will be.