Dallas Cowboys QB Trey Lance Thread

Originally posted by tankle104:
Comments like those are why I'm always cautious of believing what players say about teammates. I watch their body language and secondary words to try and get a feel for their actual opinion. Subconscious says a lot. Whoever called him baby Wilson is a moron. Hahah bet he doesn't want to be baby Wilson now, outside of cashing checks.

It was a former teammate of Wilson's that was in DC…I think McKissic. Some called him baby Farve as well. His teammates loved him. Propped him up all the same.

im not saying that's who Brock is. I'm pointing out there's been QBs that most wouldn't call elite QBs that played well for 7+ games. Where the play matters a ton. We will see with Brock.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:


I replied with quote, so ppl could read everything you wrote, make up their own mind... you left your original quote off.. I did not.

I didn't no say those exact words! like I said don't f**king quote me when that's not exactly what I said.

I'm not saying you said those exact words, if ppl want to read your exact words, I imagine they will read your posts, not mine. My quote of you was to show my take on what your post boils down to.

In my post, I quoted your entire thing, so ppl can fairly read it, with nothing mischaracterized.

here is your whole post so ppl can see it:

Heinicke had a 7 game stretch of top 5 ball. So that's his ceiling? Keenum had a whole season of playing at a top level QB. Is that his ceiling?

even Jimmy had a couple games stretches of top 5 play. That doesn't conclude that that's their ceiling imo. Joe blow can go out and score 40pts in a NBA game a couple times…that's not who they are as a NBA though….It's a couple games of good football on a really good roster. If Lance goes out and plays top 5 ball for a couple games…I'm sure you will be running around tossing out every doubt you could possibly find. Every bad play. Every well he didn't him him in stride here blah blah blah.

no I don't think Brock's skill set is that of a top 5 QB and I'm talking about sustainable. Not for a couple games. hopefully he proves me wrong because unlike the Trey hater club I don't give a s**t who's the guy. I just want there to be a guy. I don't want Jimmy G 2.0. I don't want Kirk 2.0. I want a bona fide elite QB. I want the league to think well SF has *insert name* at QB so they're gonna be favorites to win it all every yr for the next decade.

Heinicke had no such stretch, so you are off to a bad, incorrect start here. You then say you hope Brock proves you wrong, cuz you don't like his skill set or you don't think it's top 5. This is a terrible post, top to bottom, imo. Brock's skill is in his ability to play loose, put it on ppl, with no fear of what is going on around him. He's shown he can play in this league, TL trying to get to that level right now / this offseason.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by tankle104:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by tankle104:
Can you provide the stats on the stretches you're talking about?

Heinicke completed 71.5% avg 230 yards and his QB rating was 95.6. His teammates were calling him baby Wilson

Keenum throughout 15 games in 2017 completed 68% of his passes for 3,600 yards and had a QB rating of 98.2 and brought Minn to the NFCC

But what were his TD-INT? Cause those look awful from what I'm looking at. How were third down conversions? How did he play in the redzone?

i really don't know if he played well or not but those are a few of the critical aspects of being considered a top 5 qb.

Wait ya'll be running around talking about QB rating and now that stat doesn't matter? TD/INT is about as fluid as it gets man….there's a handful of plays from Brock's 170 passing attempts that could have been INTs. That has nothing to do with him and more to do about the defense dropping balls. TDs have just as much to do with scheme and the talent around him. DC and SF weren't in the same realm. I'm not saying Brock didn't play well…neither did TH (on that team) or Keenum.

Keenum went 12-3 (winning matters I was told) and 22/7 TD/INT on 480 passing attempts.

What bunch are you including me in on? I don't need to single out qb rating to pick up or put down Purdy/Lance.

Purdy was top 5 in about every important category, as was the offense as a whole. When it comes to Lance I have issue with efficiency and accuracy - such as in his three games, he's had like 1.5/12 quarters where the offense scored through him. With a great team and staff around him, and only playing one good team? I have an issue with that, it greatly concerns me.

brock def got lucky on a handful of plays - specifically some that could of easily been picked by a Lb or corner. He made some that were thrown across the field into double coverage, fortunately, he learned from them pretty quick and didn't turn it over in the playoffs.he had a few tendencies that need to be cleaned up and timing on a few plays were off and could of been picked. He's talked about how he's working on that right now with his footwork.

winning matters for sure, it speaks to how you execute an offense and leadership. I personally don't think it's an end all/be all stat. 12-3 is a really good season though.

i can be critical of Brock and be a fan of his, as well. I'm very critical of Lance and not confident in him but I do support him. I do want him to ball and be what the team was hoping for. I just don't see it happening, that's all. Im not going to watch his games and wait for every bad play and say "told you so". I'll def root for him if he's starting.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by tankle104:
Comments like those are why I'm always cautious of believing what players say about teammates. I watch their body language and secondary words to try and get a feel for their actual opinion. Subconscious says a lot. Whoever called him baby Wilson is a moron. Hahah bet he doesn't want to be baby Wilson now, outside of cashing checks.

It was a former teammate of Wilson's that was in DC…I think McKissic. Some called him baby Farve as well. His teammates loved him. Propped him up all the same.

im not saying that's who Brock is. I'm pointing out there's been QBs that most wouldn't call elite QBs that played well for 7+ games. Where the play matters a ton. We will see with Brock.

I understood what you were saying. I was speaking generally when I talked about believing what players are saying. Sorry, should of been more clear.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
I'm not saying you said those exact words, if ppl want to read your exact words, I imagine they will read your posts, not mine. My quote of you was to show my take on what your post boils down to.

In my post, I quoted your entire thing, so ppl can fairly read it, with nothing mischaracterized.

here is your whole post so ppl can see it:

Heinicke had a 7 game stretch of top 5 ball. So that's his ceiling? Keenum had a whole season of playing at a top level QB. Is that his ceiling?

even Jimmy had a couple games stretches of top 5 play. That doesn't conclude that that's their ceiling imo. Joe blow can go out and score 40pts in a NBA game a couple times…that's not who they are as a NBA though….It's a couple games of good football on a really good roster. If Lance goes out and plays top 5 ball for a couple games…I'm sure you will be running around tossing out every doubt you could possibly find. Every bad play. Every well he didn't him him in stride here blah blah blah.

no I don't think Brock's skill set is that of a top 5 QB and I'm talking about sustainable. Not for a couple games. hopefully he proves me wrong because unlike the Trey hater club I don't give a s**t who's the guy. I just want there to be a guy. I don't want Jimmy G 2.0. I don't want Kirk 2.0. I want a bona fide elite QB. I want the league to think well SF has *insert name* at QB so they're gonna be favorites to win it all every yr for the next decade.

Heinicke had no such stretch, so you are off to a bad, incorrect start here. You then say you hope Brock proves you wrong, cuz you don't like his skill set or you don't think it's top 5. This is a terrible post, top to bottom, imo. Brock's skill is in his ability to play loose, put it on ppl, with no fear of what is going on around him. He's shown he can play in this league, TL trying to get to that level right now / this offseason.

Don't ever f**king quote me incorrectly again. Period.

So you're calling me a lier now??

He most certainly did have such a stretch. I told you when and the stats…even used your favorite stat, QB Rating which was 95.7 over that 7 games.

it hasn't nothing to do with what I like or don't like regarding skill set. No overall I don't think he has the skill set to be a year in a year out top 5 QB in the NFL. That's my opinion. Not fact. I hope he goes on to prove me wrong. I'll root for whomever is on this team though. I do not what another Jimmy G situation though and I've explained that.

that skill set you just pointed out is the same s**t people said about Hennicke lol.

No one is talking about if Brock or TH can play in the league. They can. Brock will have a job for years regardless of what he does going forward. He's already proven that. Yes Lance has to prove he can play. That will never happen if he can't get on the field…regardless of what anyone in a fan forum says.

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:
This is the part that got me lol

" If Lance goes out and plays top 5 ball for a couple games…I'm sure you will be running around tossing out every doubt you could possibly find. Every bad play."

Isnt that exactly what is happening with Purdy? And It's not a what if.

Some posters need to be more self aware

People are trying to find negatives and posting bad plays with Purdy? I really must not be paying attention because I have not seen anything of the sort. Dont we all love Brock? I get that some are cautiously optimistic, but does he really have detractors? I legitimately havent seen one.

Originally posted by tankle104:
What bunch are you including me in on? I don't need to single out qb rating to pick up or put down Purdy/Lance.

Purdy was top 5 in about every important category, as was the offense as a whole. When it comes to Lance I have issue with efficiency and accuracy - such as in his three games, he's had like 1.5/12 quarters where the offense scored through him. With a great team and staff around him, and only playing one good team? I have an issue with that, it greatly concerns me.

brock def got lucky on a handful of plays - specifically some that could of easily been picked by a Lb or corner. He made some that were thrown across the field into double coverage, fortunately, he learned from them pretty quick and didn't turn it over in the playoffs.he had a few tendencies that need to be cleaned up and timing on a few plays were off and could of been picked. He's talked about how he's working on that right now with his footwork.

winning matters for sure, it speaks to how you execute an offense and leadership. I personally don't think it's an end all/be all stat. 12-3 is a really good season though.

i can be critical of Brock and be a fan of his, as well. I'm very critical of Lance and not confident in him but I do support him. I do want him to ball and be what the team was hoping for. I just don't see it happening, that's all. Im not going to watch his games and wait for every bad play and say "told you so". I'll def root for him if he's starting.

How can you have any issue with Lance at this point? He hasn't even played two full games back to back…the only reasonable issue with him at this point is staying healthy…everything else is a couple random plays here and there. For sure there's work to be done based off those couple plays. No one is denying that. I just have no idea how you can have consistency when he hasn't even had time to be consistent? Like what's considered consistent? 3 good throws in a row? Back to back good games?

when have you ever been critical of Brock? I haven't seen on single post. Not one. I can toss out a handful of some pretty awful throws and questionable decisions. Ya'll will just label me a hater, when in reality you should be able to be critical and talk about the good and WTF plays. Vice versa with Lance, not every single play was a disaster but that's ALL we can talk about apparently.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:
This is the part that got me lol

" If Lance goes out and plays top 5 ball for a couple games…I'm sure you will be running around tossing out every doubt you could possibly find. Every bad play."

Isnt that exactly what is happening with Purdy? And It's not a what if.

Some posters need to be more self aware

I'm sure you will be doing it. In fact I know you will be.

the only fact here is that you are doing it. So save the BS

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by tankle104:
What bunch are you including me in on? I don't need to single out qb rating to pick up or put down Purdy/Lance.

Purdy was top 5 in about every important category, as was the offense as a whole. When it comes to Lance I have issue with efficiency and accuracy - such as in his three games, he's had like 1.5/12 quarters where the offense scored through him. With a great team and staff around him, and only playing one good team? I have an issue with that, it greatly concerns me.

brock def got lucky on a handful of plays - specifically some that could of easily been picked by a Lb or corner. He made some that were thrown across the field into double coverage, fortunately, he learned from them pretty quick and didn't turn it over in the playoffs.he had a few tendencies that need to be cleaned up and timing on a few plays were off and could of been picked. He's talked about how he's working on that right now with his footwork.

winning matters for sure, it speaks to how you execute an offense and leadership. I personally don't think it's an end all/be all stat. 12-3 is a really good season though.

i can be critical of Brock and be a fan of his, as well. I'm very critical of Lance and not confident in him but I do support him. I do want him to ball and be what the team was hoping for. I just don't see it happening, that's all. Im not going to watch his games and wait for every bad play and say "told you so". I'll def root for him if he's starting.

How can you have any issue with Lance at this point? He hasn't even played two full games back to back…the only reasonable issue with him at this point is staying healthy…everything else is a couple random plays here and there. For sure there's work to be done based off those couple plays. No one is denying that. I just have no idea how you can have consistency when he hasn't even had time to be consistent? Like what's considered consistent? 3 good throws in a row? Back to back good games?

when have you ever been critical of Brock? I haven't seen on single post. Not one. I can toss out a handful of some pretty awful throws and questionable decisions. Ya'll will just label me a hater, when in reality you should be able to be critical and talk about the good and WTF plays. Vice versa with Lance, not every single play was a disaster but that's ALL we can talk about apparently.

When you're selected 3rd overall and use 3 first round draft picks on him, sorry if I expect him to be able to run an offense that puts up more than 14 ppg or higher than 50-55% accuracy? I said it greatly concerns me. Not that is all he will ever be. All while having one of the best rosters and coaching staff?

when you have a rookie 7th round pick accomplish in one game more than a guy you traded a ransom for, that greatly concerns me.

when you don't lead an offense to touchdowns in 10.5/12 quarters of play, that concerns me.

when you have some of the worst flat out misses of a WR/TE I've ever seen. That greatly concerns me.

it doesn't mean I think that is all he will ever be, but it tells me he has a very low floor, and makes me question what he is ever capable of ascending to.

the real question is - why doesn't it make you question him? Cause it's a small sample size? Well what about the sample size gives you confidence?

im critical of Brock where he needs to improve. He hasn't played 1/10 as bad as Lance. Lol there isn't the same level of poor play to be critical of.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
he begins that stretch with this:

rating 70
rating 86
rating 69

3 pass TD, 4 Int

how do you get top 5 from that.. TL wouldn't say that's top 5.. maybe top 5 in the NFC East, I'll give you that.

Will say anything to knock Brock

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
People are trying to find negatives and posting bad plays with Purdy? I really must not be paying attention because I have not seen anything of the sort. Dont we all love Brock? I get that some are cautiously optimistic, but does he really have detractors? I legitimately havent seen one.

Once again a couple people take posts out of context…I said there was a couple other QBs that had good stenches of football that aren't regarded as elite level QBs at all. I COULD post a handful for really bad throws and decisions from Brock…but I'll be labeled a hater instead of adding context and dialogue to a discussion.

Brock good Lance bad. Saying anything else will not be tolerated. No nuance. No context.

FWIW I would love for either dude to become the man. I don't want another Jimmy G though. I don't want Kirk 2.0. I want a legit stud at QB. Maybe it's Brock maybe it's lance. I got a feeling we will see all three QBs playing this yr.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:


I replied with quote, so ppl could read everything you wrote, make up their own mind... you left your original quote off.. I did not.

I didn't no say those exact words! like I said don't f**king quote me when that's not exactly what I said.

I'm not saying you said those exact words, if ppl want to read your exact words, I imagine they will read your posts, not mine. My quote of you was to show my take on what your post boils down to.

In my post, I quoted your entire thing, so ppl can fairly read it, with nothing mischaracterized.

here is your whole post so ppl can see it:

Heinicke had a 7 game stretch of top 5 ball. So that's his ceiling? Keenum had a whole season of playing at a top level QB. Is that his ceiling?

even Jimmy had a couple games stretches of top 5 play. That doesn't conclude that that's their ceiling imo. Joe blow can go out and score 40pts in a NBA game a couple times…that's not who they are as a NBA though….It's a couple games of good football on a really good roster. If Lance goes out and plays top 5 ball for a couple games…I'm sure you will be running around tossing out every doubt you could possibly find. Every bad play. Every well he didn't him him in stride here blah blah blah.

no I don't think Brock's skill set is that of a top 5 QB and I'm talking about sustainable. Not for a couple games. hopefully he proves me wrong because unlike the Trey hater club I don't give a s**t who's the guy. I just want there to be a guy. I don't want Jimmy G 2.0. I don't want Kirk 2.0. I want a bona fide elite QB. I want the league to think well SF has *insert name* at QB so they're gonna be favorites to win it all every yr for the next decade.

Heinicke had no such stretch, so you are off to a bad, incorrect start here. You then say you hope Brock proves you wrong, cuz you don't like his skill set or you don't think it's top 5. This is a terrible post, top to bottom, imo. Brock's skill is in his ability to play loose, put it on ppl, with no fear of what is going on around him. He's shown he can play in this league, TL trying to get to that level right now / this offseason.

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
he begins that stretch with this:

rating 70
rating 86
rating 69

3 pass TD, 4 Int

how do you get top 5 from that.. TL wouldn't say that's top 5.. maybe top 5 in the NFC East, I'll give you that.

Will say anything to knock Brock

I mean he's the poster that runs around telling everyone Sam had a 95 QB rating over six games. Love how he leaves out the other 4 games.

and stop being stupid to think TD/INT are pure QB stats. Acting like TH was tossing screen passes to CMC or Deebo for 50 yard TDs or wide open passes to Kittle.

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:
the only fact here is that you are doing it. So save the BS

You've been doing it for years so you can cut the s**t. Hypocrite

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
People are trying to find negatives and posting bad plays with Purdy? I really must not be paying attention because I have not seen anything of the sort. Dont we all love Brock? I get that some are cautiously optimistic, but does he really have detractors? I legitimately havent seen one.

You've seen it before in another thread. Same people making the same argument. Rinse and repeat