Dallas Cowboys QB Trey Lance Thread

Originally posted by NinerPrideinNJ:
This board is so weird.

How some people can definitively and staunchly defend a rookie QB who's literally proven nothing other than that he gets hurt and is completely inexperienced (while some simultaneously have ripped Garoppolo for the same injury woes) baffles me.

The detractors of Lance (at least I think many of them) aren't attacking the guy, they're just saying that based off of injury history, lack of experience and reps at the college and professional level, and the actions/words of the front office and coaching staff signing Darnold and saying it's Purdy's job to lose....(coupled with a QB in Purdy who looked reallly good and didn't lose a game he finished as a 7th round rookie against some great teams, tough environments, and 2 playoff games), says all we need to know.

The Lance project really hit an end before it began for all those factors. His only realistic chance on this team is to completely WOW the team and coaching staff with other worldly play, on every play, in practice. And even then it's a long shot...because it's practice.

It's just a situational thing. And it sucks for Lance. I said it before, and I think others would agree, that I saw his career ending before it began in week 2 with that ankle snap. Even then, who's to say he'd have remained a starter the whole season. Most of the commentary from coaches and players were "he's getting there" "he's got a bright future" "we're excited to see what he has to offer".

Juxtapose that with what they said about Brock. It's not denigrating Lance; it's just that Brock delivered on a team of young vets that wants and are ready to win. It was very clear that those guys were concerned that they were going to slide through a 500 season or worse with Lance as he learned on the job and they didn't want that.

It's pretty simple and not a matter of liking or hating a guy. I literally have no feelings for Lance other than empathy and pity. But to blindly project this guy is going to suddenly blow people away and be an immediate star despite all the aforementioned just based on like 8 games at South Dakota State and his position as a #3 pick is kinda ridiculous. Zach Wilson went before him. JaMarcus Russell was #1. Nothing about draft position indicates who you are or will be. And the only reason people think he can be a huge talent is because of the 49ers' desperation, gross reach, and the 3 first-round price they paid.

And if you follow this team, you know that outside of Bosa (who everyone woulda picked except a few delusionals who thought Quinnen Williams was the guy), this team stinks in the first round/top of the first.

Haven't read much of this thread have you? I also think it's hilarious how you go on this long winded post about how nobody denigrates Trey Lance here and it's simply because of how well Brock played and then you bring up Jamarcus Russell into the conversation.

Fact is people have been downplaying what Lance has done here for pages and the bulk of it lies from the simple thought process that Purdy had the offense playing so great while Lance didn't and the words "stunk it up" have been used(but once again nobody is denigrating the kid apparently)

And yet when people bring up context pointing to the fact that things were definitely not in favor of a great performance week 1 it's called excuses by some of the same people who claimed Jimmy Garoppolo only played so bad vs Denver because he didn't have the playbook until last minute or that he was going to lead us to a comeback win before Jeff Wilson fumbled the ball away.

I love both guys. I think they're very easy kids to root for but neither of them has a track record where we can clearly say - this guy is going to be our franchise QB for the next 10+ years. Which is why I really wanted to see them battle in training camp with the same plays, the same personnel around them and playing the same defense to give us a better look at how much further Brock is than Trey if at all.

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by TreyDeyEeyDey:
Lol my goodness. You really don't think practicing with other players helps? How utterly embarrassing.

Kansas City Chiefs quarterback Patrick Mahomes and his personal passing coach, Jeff Christensen, seemingly gave all their secrets away to San Francisco 49ers QB Trey Lance over the weekend.

Lance, 22, has little to show for in three season since joining the NFL, largely due to battling multiple injuries.

Christensen, 63, worked with Jimmy Garoppolo in high school, turning him from a pitcher into a quarterback, who has earned over $120 million in his NFL career.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.marca.com/en/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs/2023/04/11/64348ffa46163fbf268b45d6.html

For me working out with Mahomes did nothing for me. Then I started thinking the one positive I could see coming form that would be him getting a feel from what Mahomes does work on or how he works. You posting this about getting tips from his passing coach is a positive. However, it could also be a negative.

It seems since 2019 Trey has been with a different passing coach each offseason. When you are trying to build consistency, one would think it would be hard to do so if you are being coached differently every year. Now obviously, I don't know how different if at all he is being coached but you would think everyone has their own way of doing things. IMO, it would be in his best interest to find one guy and stick with him.

Getting work with a passing coach who has worked with many big name guys isn't a bad thing...ever.

Mechanics unfortunately aren't as simple as learning something new and now off you go. It has to be repetition to the point where your body does it naturally because when you're reading NFL defenses that require quick decisions and throws you can't be thinking "ok, bend the front leg, keep the ball tight, release quick, follow through...etc"

They're working with Trey more on using his lower body on throws. If he can get himself to be consistent with it it will lead to better and more consistent accuracy and also give him a better arm in the process. Him seeing issues to work on is never a bad thing.

This also goes into why Shanahan is so focused on footwork for QBs.

Originally posted by genus49:
Getting work with a passing coach who has worked with many big name guys isn't a bad thing...ever.

Mechanics unfortunately aren't as simple as learning something new and now off you go. It has to be repetition to the point where your body does it naturally because when you're reading NFL defenses that require quick decisions and throws you can't be thinking "ok, bend the front leg, keep the ball tight, release quick, follow through...etc"

They're working with Trey more on using his lower body on throws. If he can get himself to be consistent with it it will lead to better and more consistent accuracy and also give him a better arm in the process. Him seeing issues to work on is never a bad thing.

This also goes into why Shanahan is so focused on footwork for QBs.

Tweet isn't accurate but @ThrowItDeep is getting him right. Getting him out to extension and getting his lower half to do the work. Glad Trey was willing to see what is obvious on tape. The best throw different than the way mainstream thinks is right! https://t.co/GOW1shMEzR

— LockedInQB (@LockedInQB) April 6, 2023

The point of my post was wouldn't he be more consistent if he stuck with the same coach? he seems to get a new one every offseason. If they are teaching you something different in even in the slightest way how can he become consistent? You'd be constantly changing. That is my issue. Again, I say that without knowing exactly what he is "learning" or whatever. So they may all be saying the same things and teaching the same way. I just can't fathom them all being harmonious in how they teach.

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by genus49:
Why are you acting like Trey Lance is Colin Kaepernick?

Kyle Shanahan moved up to #3 to select the kid but we're wondering if he's not a fit? If they move Trey right now that should frighten people because it means as good as Kyle is with his system he can't evaluate QBs for sh*t!

It means we overlooked Mahomes and Watson for the great Kirk Cousins(once again a move I can't hate too much given the state of our roster at the time and the known commodity of Cousins) but now it would mean we wiffed so bad on Lance's evaluation that after 2 years and one of them being a week 2 season ending injury they were already out on Trey. Them lucking into Purdy doesn't change anything and if god forbid Brock can't come back the same player he was last season and stay that way long term...I would have 0 trust in Kyle getting another big QB move correct via the draft.

I disagree with the 1st statement. I think Kyle knew Trey wasn't a fit before he was drafted. He tried adjusting his system and personnel as stated by a couple posters in this very thread. One I know being THL.

As for your last part, I think if anything lucking into Purdy instills even more confidence in Kyle being able to find another guy if Purdy doesn't turns out to be that guy. The tangibles needed to run Kyle's offense isn't the tangibles the GMs around the league covets the most. Which means we'll continue to have cracks at find the "next Brock Purdy" we don't need to be at the top of the draft for that physical specimen. That being said, the Commanders appear to be trying our strategy by giving the reigns to a similar QB in Sam Howell. That with a pretty stout defense. If Howell and the commanders have success, I could see a new trend developing. Especially if Baltimore does draft Stetson Bennett to go with Georgia's OC and he too has success.

You can disagree with it all you want...we're past the pre-draft talk.

Shanahan wasn't drafting anyone he felt wasn't a fit for his offense. He's literally talked about getting someone who can do the things Trey can do. It's simply about staying healthy and becoming more consistent at those things.

Trey's offense at North Dakota was very similar to Kyle's. He's done a ton of the key concepts Kyle uses in the NFL as a 19 year old kid but we're supposed to pretend the guy is a lost cause?

Shanahan is not drafting anyone #3 overall who he thinks cannot play in his offense. The run aspect from Trey was simply an addition to Kyle's offense, not a change of the whole thing. It's called adapting and improving, not changing.

Do we forget that Kyle was apparently very high on Josh Allen before we gave Jimmy the big deal to keep him long term? Is Josh Allen not a fit for Shanahan's offense? Is Jalen Hurts not a fit for Kyle's offense?

The issue is can Trey get there and become more consistent at the stapes of Kyle's offense. The injury clouded his evaluation in a big way and Purdy gave them a guy who could run the offense at a very high level. The issue right now is we have no clue how Brock will come back. I'm sure we all thought after Garoppolo's ACL injury we'd be getting the 2017 Jimmy G but there were cracks in his game that showed up. He became more skittish in the pocket. I certainly hope that's not the case with Brock but that's why I'm seeing what Lance can do until Brock can come back and show he's the same guy we saw last year.

Some people would rather get rid of Trey for some reason. I'm keeping a strong QB room, insulating myself from the disaster of last season and hoping for the best case scenario where you have 2 franchise level QBs and we can trade one for much better draft capital that would come with moving Trey right now.

Originally posted by CharlieSheen:
Jimmy has had some stinkers and he still has higher value than Trey. Stinkers will happen when you're a starting QB. Im one of those that trusts Darnold more than Trey. Trey can show me he's better this offseason, but I've honestly never seen it and I'm not just going to assume.

Just because there's not a lot of film doesn't mean Trey is better than Darnold. I can use that logic and say my sister would be a better option than Darnold because of his stinkers. That logic isn't sound.

Does your sister play in the NFL? If you're going to respond with an absurd analogy keep it somewhat believable.

The whole idea is that if Brock can't go week 1+ we need a QB who can help us win football games. We have seen Sam Darnold straight up lose games for his team - REAL clunkers.

When have we seen Lance lose the game all on his own? Sure the sample size is tiny in comparison but yet you don't have any qualms about Darnold being able to win here simply because we have a good roster in place?

Make it make sense - one guy has several games on tape where he's just awful. Another guy has 2 loses with this team, 1 in his first career start on the road playing without George Kittle, several big drops and penalties in bad moments and a goal line stop where we lose by 7. Then a 9 point loss week 1 in a slop fest game with numerous mistakes across the team.

In the two loses he also happened to be our leading rusher. Yet you and others want to put the loss on him and pretend Sam Darnold puts us in a better position to win football games.

I could at least understand if in the two loses Trey had turned the ball over left and right and ran around like a chicken with his head cut off and the team got romped while the other guys did their best to carry the kid but couldn't overcome his mistakes.

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by genus49:
Getting work with a passing coach who has worked with many big name guys isn't a bad thing...ever.

Mechanics unfortunately aren't as simple as learning something new and now off you go. It has to be repetition to the point where your body does it naturally because when you're reading NFL defenses that require quick decisions and throws you can't be thinking "ok, bend the front leg, keep the ball tight, release quick, follow through...etc"

They're working with Trey more on using his lower body on throws. If he can get himself to be consistent with it it will lead to better and more consistent accuracy and also give him a better arm in the process. Him seeing issues to work on is never a bad thing.

This also goes into why Shanahan is so focused on footwork for QBs.

Tweet isn't accurate but @ThrowItDeep is getting him right. Getting him out to extension and getting his lower half to do the work. Glad Trey was willing to see what is obvious on tape. The best throw different than the way mainstream thinks is right! https://t.co/GOW1shMEzR

— LockedInQB (@LockedInQB) April 6, 2023

The point of my post was wouldn't he be more consistent if he stuck with the same coach? he seems to get a new one every offseason. If they are teaching you something different in even in the slightest way how can he become consistent? You'd be constantly changing. That is my issue. Again, I say that without knowing exactly what he is "learning" or whatever. So they may all be saying the same things and teaching the same way. I just can't fathom them all being harmonious in how they teach.

He goes to several coaches. They work on different things. You're able to review what you did right, what you did wrong after the season and find the best coach/teacher for you to work on the respective issues.

I understand your point but I don't think it's valid here.

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by CharlieSheen:

Jimmy has had some stinkers and he still has higher value than Trey. Stinkers will happen when you're a starting QB. Im one of those that trusts Darnold more than Trey. Trey can show me he's better this offseason, but I've honestly never seen it and I'm not just going to assume.

Just because there's not a lot of film doesn't mean Trey is better than Darnold. I can use that logic and say my sister would be a better option than Darnold because of his stinkers. That logic isn't sound.

Does your sister play in the NFL? If you're going to respond with an absurd analogy keep it somewhat believable.

The whole idea is that if Brock can't go week 1+ we need a QB who can help us win football games. We have seen Sam Darnold straight up lose games for his team - REAL clunkers.

When have we seen Lance lose the game all on his own? Sure the sample size is tiny in comparison but yet you don't have any qualms about Darnold being able to win here simply because we have a good roster in place?

Make it make sense - one guy has several games on tape where he's just awful. Another guy has 2 loses with this team, 1 in his first career start on the road playing without George Kittle, several big drops and penalties in bad moments and a goal line stop where we lose by 7. Then a 9 point loss week 1 in a slop fest game with numerous mistakes across the team.

In the two loses he also happened to be our leading rusher. Yet you and others want to put the loss on him and pretend Sam Darnold puts us in a better position to win football games.

I could at least understand if in the two loses Trey had turned the ball over left and right and ran around like a chicken with his head cut off and the team got romped while the other guys did their best to carry the kid but couldn't overcome his mistakes.

It is ridiculous, which shows that the logic you use to say Darnold is worse than Trey isn't sound. I can easily apply that logic to my sister. Darnold sucked so I'm just going to assume my sister's better, even though there's 0 proof of that

Originally posted by genus49:
You can disagree with it all you want...we're past the pre-draft talk.

Shanahan wasn't drafting anyone he felt wasn't a fit for his offense. He's literally talked about getting someone who can do the things Trey can do. It's simply about staying healthy and becoming more consistent at those things.

Trey's offense at North Dakota was very similar to Kyle's. He's done a ton of the key concepts Kyle uses in the NFL as a 19 year old kid but we're supposed to pretend the guy is a lost cause?

Shanahan is not drafting anyone #3 overall who he thinks cannot play in his offense. The run aspect from Trey was simply an addition to Kyle's offense, not a change of the whole thing. It's called adapting and improving, not changing.

Do we forget that Kyle was apparently very high on Josh Allen before we gave Jimmy the big deal to keep him long term? Is Josh Allen not a fit for Shanahan's offense? Is Jalen Hurts not a fit for Kyle's offense?

The issue is can Trey get there and become more consistent at the stapes of Kyle's offense. The injury clouded his evaluation in a big way and Purdy gave them a guy who could run the offense at a very high level. The issue right now is we have no clue how Brock will come back. I'm sure we all thought after Garoppolo's ACL injury we'd be getting the 2017 Jimmy G but there were cracks in his game that showed up. He became more skittish in the pocket. I certainly hope that's not the case with Brock but that's why I'm seeing what Lance can do until Brock can come back and show he's the same guy we saw last year.

Some people would rather get rid of Trey for some reason. I'm keeping a strong QB room, insulating myself from the disaster of last season and hoping for the best case scenario where you have 2 franchise level QBs and we can trade one for much better draft capital that would come with moving Trey right now.

The fact that we are in year 3 and you are still asking if Trey can get there, as it relates to the staples of Kyle's offense. We should already know the answer to this. IMO we already do know the answer to this. Some people just refuse to believe it. At no point has he shown that he can. You don't need real game reps to know if some one can run the staples of your offense. That is exactly what training camp is for. Yes you need live game reps to improve upon your skill. You do not need it to evaluate. We as fans may because we can't see all the practices and what nots. The coaching staff however, they don't need the live game reps to know if the guy can lead your offense or not.

rather get rid of Trey for some reason? The reason ahs been stated ad nauseam. Again, some people just refuse to understand that reasoning. If the coaching staff does not feel you can lead their offense (not saying they do or don't because I don't know. speaking hypothetically) or feels the guy they just signed off the streets can run it jsut as good as you, why would you not trade him?

If we could trade any other backup for a pick that could possibly land us a starter would you pull the trigger? Especially if you feel that backup's replacement is already in the building.

In my personal opinion, the QB room will still be good even if Trey is traded. I promise you Trey lance does not make or break the QB room. I also promise you that SF will draft a QB, who by the way will more than likely have more experience than Trey. Allowing them to at the very least step in to the level he is leaving off at. SF would also likely bring in a vet QB if Trey gets traded. Even if it's just as a camp arm. But trust me we will be ok if Trey isn't in the QB room.

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by NinerPrideinNJ:
This board is so weird.

How some people can definitively and staunchly defend a rookie QB who's literally proven nothing other than that he gets hurt and is completely inexperienced (while some simultaneously have ripped Garoppolo for the same injury woes) baffles me.

The detractors of Lance (at least I think many of them) aren't attacking the guy, they're just saying that based off of injury history, lack of experience and reps at the college and professional level, and the actions/words of the front office and coaching staff signing Darnold and saying it's Purdy's job to lose....(coupled with a QB in Purdy who looked reallly good and didn't lose a game he finished as a 7th round rookie against some great teams, tough environments, and 2 playoff games), says all we need to know.

The Lance project really hit an end before it began for all those factors. His only realistic chance on this team is to completely WOW the team and coaching staff with other worldly play, on every play, in practice. And even then it's a long shot...because it's practice.

It's just a situational thing. And it sucks for Lance. I said it before, and I think others would agree, that I saw his career ending before it began in week 2 with that ankle snap. Even then, who's to say he'd have remained a starter the whole season. Most of the commentary from coaches and players were "he's getting there" "he's got a bright future" "we're excited to see what he has to offer".

Juxtapose that with what they said about Brock. It's not denigrating Lance; it's just that Brock delivered on a team of young vets that wants and are ready to win. It was very clear that those guys were concerned that they were going to slide through a 500 season or worse with Lance as he learned on the job and they didn't want that.

It's pretty simple and not a matter of liking or hating a guy. I literally have no feelings for Lance other than empathy and pity. But to blindly project this guy is going to suddenly blow people away and be an immediate star despite all the aforementioned just based on like 8 games at South Dakota State and his position as a #3 pick is kinda ridiculous. Zach Wilson went before him. JaMarcus Russell was #1. Nothing about draft position indicates who you are or will be. And the only reason people think he can be a huge talent is because of the 49ers' desperation, gross reach, and the 3 first-round price they paid.

And if you follow this team, you know that outside of Bosa (who everyone woulda picked except a few delusionals who thought Quinnen Williams was the guy), this team stinks in the first round/top of the first.

Haven't read much of this thread have you? I also think it's hilarious how you go on this long winded post about how nobody denigrates Trey Lance here and it's simply because of how well Brock played and then you bring up Jamarcus Russell into the conversation.

Fact is people have been downplaying what Lance has done here for pages and the bulk of it lies from the simple thought process that Purdy had the offense playing so great while Lance didn't and the words "stunk it up" have been used(but once again nobody is denigrating the kid apparently)

And yet when people bring up context pointing to the fact that things were definitely not in favor of a great performance week 1 it's called excuses by some of the same people who claimed Jimmy Garoppolo only played so bad vs Denver because he didn't have the playbook until last minute or that he was going to lead us to a comeback win before Jeff Wilson fumbled the ball away.

I love both guys. I think they're very easy kids to root for but neither of them has a track record where we can clearly say - this guy is going to be our franchise QB for the next 10+ years. Which is why I really wanted to see them battle in training camp with the same plays, the same personnel around them and playing the same defense to give us a better look at how much further Brock is than Trey if at all.

What the hell has he done? Go 1-2. His lone win was against a s**tty texans team in which he got shutout in the first half and maybe had 4 good throws in the entire game. His sample size is nothing. He's done nothing.

Trey is working with Pat Mahomes who graciously took him under his wing and here we have 49er fans hating it?

Man I just don't know. If I were fighting for QB2 I would be doing all I could as well. I mean this stuff should be a no brainer!

Originally posted by JoseCortez:
What the hell has he done? Go 1-2. His lone win was against a s**tty texans team in which he got shutout in the first half and maybe had 4 good throws in the entire game. His sample size is nothing. He's done nothing.

Technically he's 2-2 in his starts. You're right. He's done nothing to be QB1 on this team but I thought this summer was about improving and competitive to see who's going to take that first snap week 1?

Meanwhile we have Brock recovering and we're waiting on Darnold to learn this offense so he can compete for the job too

Originally posted by genus49:
He goes to several coaches. They work on different things. You're able to review what you did right, what you did wrong after the season and find the best coach/teacher for you to work on the respective issues.

I understand your point but I don't think it's valid here.

So what you are saying is he's training with half ass passing coaches. If i'm a millionaire, i'd be getting a QB coach who can teach me everything I wouldn't have to go to so many people. Mahomes has been with JC for atleast 4 seasons now. The same timeframe Trey has jumped from coach to coach.

Originally posted by Pillbusta:
Trey is working with Pat Mahomes who graciously took him under his wing and here we have 49er fans hating it?

Man I just don't know. If I were fighting for QB2 I would be doing all I could as well. I mean this stuff should be a no brainer!

No conspiracy theory in any of Trey's bones. He just wants to spend some time with someone, who he probably highly admires, as a fellow colleague and just talk football and the coming season.

Originally posted by krizay:
The fact that we are in year 3 and you are still asking if Trey can get there, as it relates to the staples of Kyle's offense. We should already know the answer to this. IMO we already do know the answer to this. Some people just refuse to believe it. At no point has he shown that he can. You don't need real game reps to know if some one can run the staples of your offense. That is exactly what training camp is for. Yes you need live game reps to improve upon your skill. You do not need it to evaluate. We as fans may because we can't see all the practices and what nots. The coaching staff however, they don't need the live game reps to know if the guy can lead your offense or not.

rather get rid of Trey for some reason? The reason ahs been stated ad nauseam. Again, some people just refuse to understand that reasoning. If the coaching staff does not feel you can lead their offense (not saying they do or don't because I don't know. speaking hypothetically) or feels the guy they just signed off the streets can run it jsut as good as you, why would you not trade him?

If we could trade any other backup for a pick that could possibly land us a starter would you pull the trigger? Especially if you feel that backup's replacement is already in the building.

In my personal opinion, the QB room will still be good even if Trey is traded. I promise you Trey lance does not make or break the QB room. I also promise you that SF will draft a QB, who by the way will more than likely have more experience than Trey. Allowing them to at the very least step in to the level he is leaving off at. SF would also likely bring in a vet QB if Trey gets traded. Even if it's just as a camp arm. But trust me we will be ok if Trey isn't in the QB room.

We would know probably know the answer to this if the kid started in 2021 after he was drafted. He operated the offense well in the second half of the Texans game considering it was his second start with limited experience and I don't care if it was against the Texans. It was an NFL team which is much different compared to what he faced at North Dakota state. We don't know if he can't operate the offense efficiently and consistently because he's hardly played and he got hurt in the second game this past season. So no it's a big enough of a sample size to know if he can or not. Game reps matter

Originally posted by genus49:
Haven't read much of this thread have you? I also think it's hilarious how you go on this long winded post about how nobody denigrates Trey Lance here and it's simply because of how well Brock played and then you bring up Jamarcus Russell into the conversation.

Fact is people have been downplaying what Lance has done here for pages and the bulk of it lies from the simple thought process that Purdy had the offense playing so great while Lance didn't and the words "stunk it up" have been used(but once again nobody is denigrating the kid apparently)

And yet when people bring up context pointing to the fact that things were definitely not in favor of a great performance week 1 it's called excuses by some of the same people who claimed Jimmy Garoppolo only played so bad vs Denver because he didn't have the playbook until last minute or that he was going to lead us to a comeback win before Jeff Wilson fumbled the ball away.

I love both guys. I think they're very easy kids to root for but neither of them has a track record where we can clearly say - this guy is going to be our franchise QB for the next 10+ years. Which is why I really wanted to see them battle in training camp with the same plays, the same personnel around them and playing the same defense to give us a better look at how much further Brock is than Trey if at all.

Fantastic post.