Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
Originally posted by tankle104:
Originally posted by Waterbear:
Originally posted by tankle104:
I don't think the team is actively trying to trade Lance, but I also think the team knows this off season/year is when his trade value will be the highest without playing. So I think the team has put themselves in a position to trade him if he doesn't have a material improvement during camp and the right offer shows up. Remember, other teams get injuries too and someone might want him more than they do today. I highly highly doubt he gets traded anytime sooner than the end of camp, if he ever does.
in other words, it's on Lance in camp this year.
- I think the team has been very strategic on the words they've used regarding the QBs this off season in and effort to gauge his trade value while also giving trey a chance to earn a shot.
- if Lance has a really good camp, I think the team doesn't consider trading him and keep rolling with him at QB2.
- if he has another camp with a lot of inconsistencies, they'll be more willing to listen to offers.
- it also depends on how Purdy's recovery is going. That'll play a big part in it.
- I think the team still really likes him but also has concerns about his development.
- I also think the team put themselves in a position with darnold and his contract to where if they do trade Lance for some reason, it won't overly hurt the team. This is a smart team running the cap - I don't think it's a coincidence that Darnold's cap # is the exact amount we would save in a post June 1 trade of Lance.
- there is the possibility that if Lance has a good camp, we trade darnold and fill his spot with a young qb we draft/UDFA.
all of these things can be true at the same time. All cards are on the table and this is a smart front office that has set themselves up to take ALL the routes discussed on here. It's really dependent on how Lance plays in camp and Purdys recovery.
overall, I don't know if the team is leaning one way or the other, but they've set themselves up for both routes and they're putting all the pressure on Lance to perform in camp and that'll decide which route they eventually take.
This is a really good post. Still working on my response to Smokey, but this is part of it.
There's a difference between saying you think something vs saying something is true. It may be true regardless, but if you're making a definitive claim you have to provide the evidence. The post above is exactly what I hope this thread can do more of.
Nicely done Tankle.
Thanks Waterbear, appreciate the kind words.
sometimes I have to catch myself on here because if you don't know me in real life, it's easy to take what I say and misinterpret what I'm trying to say.
what's sad is post like this don't usually gain much traction convo wise, people prefer to attack each other. Which I've done myself, I'm not innocent here. Lol
i guess what would we talk about otherwise? Hahaha during this part of the offseason
I too appreciate your post tankle. I have been on the same page as Waterbear from the jump regarding Trey Lance. I argue with anyone who claims Trey is a bust or that he wont ever be good here....simply because that poster is presenting their opinion as fact. And then when I argue with these posters, they come back and claim I am being a Trey homer/apologist when I have repeatedly said I have no idea how good he is going to be. I see people do the same thing with NY.
Its a fascinating argument because in the old QB war threads, it was always people who thought the QB sucks vs. people who thought the QB was good. Its not like that here, yet is being represented by one side as it being the same. I really dont see many if any people homering out for Trey and claiming he is definitely going to be great. Its just people like me who say its way too early to make definitive claims arguing with the people who DO make definitive claims that he is never going to be good.
Its such an odd argument in this thread.
I appreciate the kind words from you, as well.
What makes some of the debate around Trey unique comes down to his lack of playing and differing opinions on how QBs can improve/grow.
there is nothing wrong with having different opinions, at all. That's just life.
a topic regarding Lance (essentially any qb but specifically Lance on here) comes down to the whole "either you have it or you don't" - and I think just that statement is a little subjective because we all probably have different opinions of what that means. To me, it has to do with the mental side of the game. I'm from the school of thought where we should all be treated equal and given the same opportunities, but we aren't all born equal genetics wise. Some of us are better at things physically/mentally than others and it just is what it is.
doesn't mean that other person isn't naturally great at something else
To be a great qb requires numerous traits and the most difficult and hardest to identify are the intangibles of how someone's mind works. There are a ton of variables, but I believe that part of the mental game needs to come natural to you for you ever to be great at it. You can definitely learn it, study it, improve at it, but I don't think someone can become great at it if it isn't natural. For example, spatial awareness, measuring in your head, adjustments, timing, ball placement etc all need to be done in a split second reaction on the field. Anyone can learn that but doing is different. Needs to essentially be an instinct and not require thinking about it.
it's very rare to find players that have that, which is why great QBs are rare. I think it's what separates elite and game managers - it isn't that a game manager isn't intelligent enough or smart enough to know what to do, it's the identifying and reacting part that most struggle with.
i don't think anyone who has to learn it, can ever be great at it. You have to have a natural floor mentally that you can improve on.
im not saying Lance doesn't have that, no one knows, not even Lance because he hasn't played enough in his life.
one of the main reasons I'm not a big fan of his is in his limited play (college and pros) - I personally haven't seen it.
where as with Brock, I think it's stuck out like a sore thumb. It's usually something you can see in a player pretty quickly. Not saying they ball out immediately, but you can see the way they process and react to the game is unique and rare.
others will disagree with me, that's perfectly fine. It's just how I feel about it and my experience of studying QBs.
[ Edited by tankle104 on Apr 13, 2023 at 1:58 PM ]
