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Dallas Cowboys QB Trey Lance Thread

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Originally posted by mayo49:
Originally posted by tankle104:
Originally posted by Bloodless:
I think it's becoming pretty clear now that they no longer think very highly of Trey's abilities. I have said this before but I think they were disappointed with what they got after he was drafted. During his first year, he looked terrible and like a complete project. They expected him to come into his second year improved but I think he might have even looked worse based on reports. People keep trying to say we do not know because he hasn't played but they have seen him in practice for over a year and a half. They are not going to keep paying a guy a bunch of money yearly who looks just awful, regardless of what they gave up to acquire him. I would probably keep him for another year and see if he shows improvement from the bench. But would not be surprised if they just ripped the bandaid off.

Exactly, it isn't just his lack of play, he is going into year thrrr and still a complete project. There isn't one piece of playing QB that any of us can say he's really good at. That's extremely concerning.

it's also very telling of how he's looked around the coaches for two years that they aren't in a rush to get him on the field.

i genuinely don't know why some think he's going to magically become amazing at playing qb because of physical tools? He couldn't even muster of his "amazing" physical talents to beat the lowly bears because of some rain. Of course the rain didn't stop fields, he managed to put up more than 10 on the best defense in the nfl.

he may be unknown but what is known is that he is a complete project after two years.

They just have been waiting so long, be it the injuries, slowing his development or Brock getting the call and them basically coming to the realization that it's just not in the cards for him, here anymore.

I think what Trey needs is to play a lot and it not really matter. He isn't going to get that here. We NEED and EXPECT to win. He needs a lot of just playing to figure it all out. It's hard enough to learn how to play QB in
this league but to do it while you mentally need to be good enough to compete for a chip, he's just too far from that. He first needs to figure out how to operate an offense efficiently. Then he needs to improve upon that.

i personally would guess that the fact he can't operate the offense efficiently, as a whole, in practice/camp/few games he's played - is a big reason why they're frustrated with him.

if you go back and dissect his three starts, the offense was super boom or bust, very clunky. He doesn't have the little things down. He needs to play a lot more to get that, especially since he's barely played football (relatively) in his life. To be handed a championship caliber roster and expected to operate a very complex offense after playing 30 games in your life (highschool varsity+college (FCS)+NFL) is ridiculous to me. I really don't know what the hell the team was thinking. I guess they thought he was further along, not sure why though. He needs to play on a mediocre team without super bowl aspirations for the next 2-3 years. Then you can find out what he really is.

the good news is that a team like the falcons or Texans can offer him that. He is also still really young. So what I'm saying is far fetched. He just needs a situation with no expectations to develop him. I still doubt he becomes a superstar, especially if they insist on running him a lot, but he can figure out how to play QB. By the time they build the roster around him, he should be like a dak caliber player.
[ Edited by tankle104 on Apr 19, 2023 at 3:23 PM ]
  • mayo49
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Originally posted by tankle104:
Originally posted by mayo49:
Originally posted by tankle104:
Originally posted by Bloodless:
I think it's becoming pretty clear now that they no longer think very highly of Trey's abilities. I have said this before but I think they were disappointed with what they got after he was drafted. During his first year, he looked terrible and like a complete project. They expected him to come into his second year improved but I think he might have even looked worse based on reports. People keep trying to say we do not know because he hasn't played but they have seen him in practice for over a year and a half. They are not going to keep paying a guy a bunch of money yearly who looks just awful, regardless of what they gave up to acquire him. I would probably keep him for another year and see if he shows improvement from the bench. But would not be surprised if they just ripped the bandaid off.

Exactly, it isn't just his lack of play, he is going into year thrrr and still a complete project. There isn't one piece of playing QB that any of us can say he's really good at. That's extremely concerning.

it's also very telling of how he's looked around the coaches for two years that they aren't in a rush to get him on the field.

i genuinely don't know why some think he's going to magically become amazing at playing qb because of physical tools? He couldn't even muster of his "amazing" physical talents to beat the lowly bears because of some rain. Of course the rain didn't stop fields, he managed to put up more than 10 on the best defense in the nfl.

he may be unknown but what is known is that he is a complete project after two years.

They just have been waiting so long, be it the injuries, slowing his development or Brock getting the call and them basically coming to the realization that it's just not in the cards for him, here anymore.

I think what Trey needs is to play a lot and it not really matter. He isn't going to get that here. We NEED and EXPECT to win. He needs a lot of just playing to figure it all out. It's hard enough to learn how to play QB in
this league but to do it while you mentally need to be good enough to compete for a chip, he's just too far from that. He first needs to figure out how to operate an offense efficiently. Then he needs to improve upon that.

i personally would guess that the fact he can't operate the offense efficiently, as a whole, in practice/camp/few games he's played - is a big reason why they're frustrated with him.

if you go back and dissect his three starts, the offense was super boom or bust, very clunky. He doesn't have the little things down. He needs to play a lot more to get that, especially since he's barely played football (relatively) in his life. To be handed a championship caliber roster and expected to operate a very complex offense after playing 30 games in your life (highschool varsity+college (FCS)+NFL) is ridiculous to me. I really don't know what the hell the team was thinking. I guess they thought he was further along, not sure why though. He needs to play on a mediocre team without super bowl aspirations for the next 2-3 years. Then you can find out what he really is.

Its a shame for Trey, because if he had the weapons that Dirty has now, he'd really thrive, given his accuracy issues were fixed.
Originally posted by 49ersRing:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by 49ersRing:
Originally posted by TheWooLick:
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by mayo49:
It's not dumb, I actually think it's a brilliant observation on my part and Brock is the real deal. Unlike, Trey, who hasn't showed s**t in 2 years.

You have no f**king clue if he's the real deal…I can show you a dozen or more throws that were awful. People thought Jimmy was the "real deal" how'd that work out?

Can you show me two years of bad play from Lance? Please show me…oh you can't because he hasn't played. That's massively different

Why does Brock praise offend you?

Saying Brock is rhe real deal is not outrageous.

It is outrageous to compare Brock's career numbers to other players career best 5 game stretch to try to equate the two.

It is outrageous to be this confident in either direction after such a small sample size, especially considering how badly we were just burned by the whole Jimmy fiasco.

Even during the amazing 5 game stretch by Jimmy in 2017, he wasn't even sniffing Purdy's jockstrap. And I am one of Jimmy's biggest supporters. Purdy is legit.

Jimmy was throwing to guys like Trent Taylor, Marquise Goodwin, and Garrett Celek. You can't really compare their situations, but what we can say is that Jimmy was never as good in the years that followed as he was during that 5 game stretch.

Jimmy wasn't really playing within the system during that stretch either. on the flip side, Brock was running Shanny's system at a high level.
Originally posted by JaggedJ:
Agree. I think all those factors make a Trey trade less likely if we're not willing to budge (and why would we?) on our asking price.

It's going to take a desperate team to make a move.

Financially we'd take a small hit this year pre June. Post June doesn't really make a whole lot of difference financially unless we desperately need cap for this season so I don't think financials become a large factor.

It really just depends on what our asking price would be and we really have no insight into it, at least at this point.

Would we be willing to trade him for a 2nd round pick? I wouldn't think receiving an offer of a 2nd round pick is outside the realm of possibility.
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/trey-lance-on-vikings-radar-three-potential-trade-offers-49ers-could-consider-ahead-of-2023-nfl-draft/

which would you take ?
  • mayo49
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Originally posted by jersey49er:
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/trey-lance-on-vikings-radar-three-potential-trade-offers-49ers-could-consider-ahead-of-2023-nfl-draft/

which would you take ?

#3, I want an edge to pair with Nick.
Originally posted by Bloodless:
I think it's becoming pretty clear now that they no longer think very highly of Trey's abilities. I have said this before but I think they were disappointed with what they got after he was drafted. During his first year, he looked terrible and like a complete project.

When Shanny talked about how difficult it is to take a guy with limited playing time....and turn him into an NFL QB.....to me that was a telling statement. I dont think he outright said....hey...ill never do that again...but the gist of that interview was....just that..... ill never draft a QB with that little playing time again.

You dont sink that much draft capital into a project, you sink that much capital into a starter.

If you have a guy you think can start, AND you sit him behind Divisional Championship experienced QB expecting to make a good prospect great.....its only natural to have serious second doubt if that prospect cant run the base offense.

All we can do is guess and try to read behind the lines, but they had to have seen ALOT of what they want in a QB making such a massive move up the draft to get Lance, so how much what the wanted do they still see in him is the question.

Trey might be just fine and all the smoke is just media driven click bait...

Or

Trey's only reason for still being on the team is the embarrassment of admitting the Front Office/Coach had such a massive miss on a prospect.....

It is just hard to see everything as a-ok on the Trey front with the quotes we have gotten from Shanny, and the organization being so openly pro "Brock is our starter" talk...
Originally posted by Dshearn:
When Shanny talked about how difficult it is to take a guy with limited playing time....and turn him into an NFL QB.....to me that was a telling statement. I dont think he outright said....hey...ill never do that again...but the gist of that interview was....just that..... ill never draft a QB with that little playing time again.

You dont sink that much draft capital into a project, you sink that much capital into a starter.

If you have a guy you think can start, AND you sit him behind Divisional Championship experienced QB expecting to make a good prospect great.....its only natural to have serious second doubt if that prospect cant run the base offense.

All we can do is guess and try to read behind the lines, but they had to have seen ALOT of what they want in a QB making such a massive move up the draft to get Lance, so how much what the wanted do they still see in him is the question.

Trey might be just fine and all the smoke is just media driven click bait...

Or

Trey's only reason for still being on the team is the embarrassment of admitting the Front Office/Coach had such a massive miss on a prospect.....

It is just hard to see everything as a-ok on the Trey front with the quotes we have gotten from Shanny, and the organization being so openly pro "Brock is our starter" talk...


This is really something we don't have to wait to be critical of. Even if we keep Trey Lance and he develops and pans out we spent 3 1st round picks in the middle of a Super Bowl window and got zero return for 2 plus seasons and running, and have fallen just short of the league's ultimate prize in each of those years (mainly due to shortcomings at the QB position). Additionally, half of the benefit of having a starting QB on a rookie deal has been wasted and we've had a need to hedge the position with high dollar and incentive loaded backup deals.

Imagine how disastrous this situation would be if we didn't seemingly hit the lottery with Purdy. It may still be a disaster if Purdy has a major setback or regresses. The selection could have slammed our SB window shut. Just a complete strategic disaster.
  • mayo49
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I need some goddamn Trey trade news.
Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
Originally posted by Dshearn:
When Shanny talked about how difficult it is to take a guy with limited playing time....and turn him into an NFL QB.....to me that was a telling statement. I dont think he outright said....hey...ill never do that again...but the gist of that interview was....just that..... ill never draft a QB with that little playing time again.

You dont sink that much draft capital into a project, you sink that much capital into a starter.

If you have a guy you think can start, AND you sit him behind Divisional Championship experienced QB expecting to make a good prospect great.....its only natural to have serious second doubt if that prospect cant run the base offense.

All we can do is guess and try to read behind the lines, but they had to have seen ALOT of what they want in a QB making such a massive move up the draft to get Lance, so how much what the wanted do they still see in him is the question.

Trey might be just fine and all the smoke is just media driven click bait...

Or

Trey's only reason for still being on the team is the embarrassment of admitting the Front Office/Coach had such a massive miss on a prospect.....

It is just hard to see everything as a-ok on the Trey front with the quotes we have gotten from Shanny, and the organization being so openly pro "Brock is our starter" talk...


This is really something we don't have to wait to be critical of. Even if we keep Trey Lance and he develops and pans out we spent 3 1st round picks in the middle of a Super Bowl window and got zero return for 2 plus seasons and running, and have fallen just short of the league's ultimate prize in each of those years (mainly due to shortcomings at the QB position). Additionally, half of the benefit of having a starting QB on a rookie deal has been wasted and we've had a need to hedge the position with high dollar and incentive loaded backup deals.

Imagine how disastrous this situation would be if we didn't seemingly hit the lottery with Purdy. It may still be a disaster if Purdy has a major setback or regresses. The selection could have slammed our SB window shut. Just a complete strategic disaster.

Even if Trey Lance was good as Patrick Mahomes we'd still be in the same situation right now if he breaks his ankle in week two.
Originally posted by mayo49:
I need some goddamn Treyde news.

FTFY
Originally posted by 49ersRing:
Even if Trey Lance was good as Patrick Mahomes we'd still be in the same situation right now if he breaks his ankle in week two.

I understand your point that you can't necessarily control injuries, but if he was as good as Mahomes you aren't running the offense in the fashion that you did. And he likely would have started year 1 as well.

That's not to mention the significant differences in the costs we paid, the position of our team, and the difference in experience between the prospects (Mahomes and Lance).
Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
This is really something we don't have to wait to be critical of. Even if we keep Trey Lance and he develops and pans out we spent 3 1st round picks in the middle of a Super Bowl window and got zero return for 2 plus seasons and running, and have fallen just short of the league's ultimate prize in each of those years (mainly due to shortcomings at the QB position). Additionally, half of the benefit of having a starting QB on a rookie deal has been wasted and we've had a need to hedge the position with high dollar and incentive loaded backup deals.

Imagine how disastrous this situation would be if we didn't seemingly hit the lottery with Purdy. It may still be a disaster if Purdy has a major setback or regresses. The selection could have slammed our SB window shut. Just a complete strategic disaster.

If Trey pans out(even if it's 2 years down the road) The SB window opens for the next decade, regardless of the roster. It's why I am in the be patient with Trey camp. The Chiefs don't have that great of a roster but it's Mahomes that makes them the best team in the league. And their SB window is not closing anytime soon. They traded one of top 3 WR's in the game for draft picks and they never lost a beat. You hit with your QB and you don't need a loaded roster.
Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
This is really something we don't have to wait to be critical of. Even if we keep Trey Lance and he develops and pans out we spent 3 1st round picks in the middle of a Super Bowl window and got zero return for 2 plus seasons and running, and have fallen just short of the league's ultimate prize in each of those years (mainly due to shortcomings at the QB position). Additionally, half of the benefit of having a starting QB on a rookie deal has been wasted and we've had a need to hedge the position with high dollar and incentive loaded backup deals.

Imagine how disastrous this situation would be if we didn't seemingly hit the lottery with Purdy. It may still be a disaster if Purdy has a major setback or regresses. The selection could have slammed our SB window shut. Just a complete strategic disaster.
But most of that has been because of unforeseeable injuries. That could have happened regardless of the suitability of the trade.
Originally posted by JTB1974:
If Trey pans out(even if it's 2 years down the road) The SB window opens for the next decade, regardless of the roster. It's why I am in the be patient with Trey camp. The Chiefs don't have that great of a roster but it's Mahomes that makes them the best team in the league. And their SB window is not closing anytime soon. They traded one of top 3 WR's in the game for draft picks and they never lost a beat. You hit with your QB and you don't need a loaded roster.

Panning out and becoming a player at Mahomes level are completely different ideas. If you think Trey Lance is ever going to be at Mahomes' level you have unreasonable expectations. Justin Herbert is an absolutely elite QB and his team struggles to make the playoffs. Josh Allen is right at Mahomes level and they have yet to break through and they have a very talented team around him. Winning in this league is about more than just having a great QB. Having a great QB is just the easiest ticket to having a consistently great offense.

And again the problem is how does he pan out if doesn't play? We have another option that had our offense rolling the best it has in two plus decades and we didn't lose a game in which he started. There is no reason to go backwards on a gamble where the realistic upside is that maybe years down the road you're back at the level we already were at (having an elite offense).
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