Dallas Cowboys QB Trey Lance Thread

Originally posted by CharlieSheen:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by CharlieSheen:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by CharlieSheen:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by riverrunzthruit:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by mayo49:

Why? You confuse me sometimes.

Moving him makes zero sense. I agree with you

Moving your son makes perfect sense from an objective professional football business perspective, but 0.00000000000% sense if you cling to a subjective faith in the unproven productivity of a poorly performing asset:

[1] Cut Your Losses - Shanalynch was forced by ownership to draft TL, that is the only scenario that makes sense, they knew they had to play him a sufficient amount to expose the ruse pick for what it is, and to demonstrate to the world the folly of their unforced error, a total blunder by ownership void of football acumen... prudent business managers ruthlessly cut their under performing assets and TL is no exception... he must must cut loose to free resources

Stopped reading right there. It's verifiably false according to the only pieces of actual evidence available (as opposed to blind speculation from "sources"). I'd list the things I'm 99% you believe, things that lack any evidence at all but just fit nicely into a stQry, which is why peQple believe these things, but it's against the rules to list them here. HQwever, I can be Quite certain because you seem to clearly believe sQmething simply because it has weak explanatQry power rather than because the EVIDENCE suppQrts it, willfully ignQring Qther explanations which fit the evidence better because they dQn't have as exciting and cQntrQversial a stQry as the Qne you prefer.

There is no evidence Kyle was forced to draft anyone, and all the actual evidence suggests he chose Lance because of what Josh Allen and Mahomes did to us. Most likely due to a desire to incorporate the QB run into his offense to achieve "positionless football," and there's a chance he was convinced by Lynch, after Lynch probably said, "I told you so" about Mahomes, but that's... SPECULATION, so I'm not going to sit here and state it as fact.

If you listen to Kyles interview it does sound like he needed to be convinced. I don't think he was forced, but it doesn't seem like they were all in agreeance from the start. Come draft day though they all agreed on Trey

Oh, you mean the Kyle who sent John Lynch a highlight reel cut up of Lance in winter? If you listen to the interviews, he liked all three of the guys and was deciding until a week before the draft.

Yes that Kyle. The one who was convinced by Trey the person more than Trey the football player. He wasn't sold on Trey, it took some time

"the more I got to know the guy, the more I got to find out some stuff about him, the more I believed in what I didn't see and what I believe we will see"

There you go again pointing out one piece of the puzzle and ignoring the rest. You ignored the part where he made a cutup video of Trey and sent it to Lynch. It's more complicated than your apparent argument here. He liked all three. All three had strengths and all three had weaknesses.

The cut up video is cool. Trey was intriguing but when he's saying he was going to see what he didn't see, that implies he didn't see enough. Trey the person convinced him

Ypu equated Brock to Garner Minshew claiming Minshew accomplished exactly what Brock accomplished.

That's bias, bro

Originally posted by krizay:
If we get offered this... MAN!!!!

I know it doesn't necessarily seem realistic but let's remember some bad QBs have gotten pretty good compensation (darnold, wince, etc). Teams get hungry for QB. I think if Texans don't take someone at 2, it's going to happen

Originally posted by frenchmov:
I know it doesn't necessarily seem realistic but let's remember some bad QBs have gotten pretty good compensation (darnold, wince, etc). Teams get hungry for QB. I think if Texans don't take someone at 2, it's going to happen

Yea that CJ Stroud news and them talking about passing on QB at 2 definitely make this situation possible

Originally posted by TheWooLick:
Ypu equated Brock to Garner Minshew claiming Minshew accomplished exactly what Brock accomplished.

That's bias, bro

I'd you're talking about me…no I didn't. I said their skill set is similarly. Massively different things

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by frenchmov:
I know it doesn't necessarily seem realistic but let's remember some bad QBs have gotten pretty good compensation (darnold, wince, etc). Teams get hungry for QB. I think if Texans don't take someone at 2, it's going to happen

Yea that CJ Stroud news and them talking about passing on QB at 2 definitely make this situation possible

So a guy that was here with Trey passes on all the QBs in this draft (minus Young) for Lance? He must think he's pretty damn good. Yeah let's move a 22 yr old QB for some unknown rookies in a bad draft lol. Niners really knock it out of the park doing stuff like that.

here's a thought. Brock isn't healthy and no one knows when or how he will play when he's finally healthy. They got an actual know bad starter in Sam…so keeping Lance and seeing what he can do this season, seems reasonable to me.

brock does his thing all yr, then move Lance in the off season. A whole hell of a lot could and usually does happen between now and then.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
So a guy that was here with Trey passes on all the QBs in this draft (minus Young) for Lance? He must think he's pretty damn good. Yeah let's move a 22 yr old QB for some unknown rookies in a bad draft lol. Niners really knock it out of the park doing stuff like that.

here's a thought. Brock isn't healthy and no one knows when or how he will play when he's finally healthy. They got an actual know bad starter in Sam…so keeping Lance and seeing what he can do this season, seems reasonable to me.

Of course keeping him seems reasonable to you. Because it's you who think it's a bad draft. You also think we only got a quarter and half of data to judge Trey on. You also think he has a chance to be some special QB.

There are a number of us who think there is good talent to be had in the 2nd. Or possibly end of 1st if we get enough in a trade to move up.

We also think we have more data than 5 quarters. Especially the ones who weren't as high on him from the beginning. The fact that Kyle had no problem naming Purdy QB1 and instead of naming Trey QB2 he declared competition with the known bad starter should tell you something. That suggest he is either higher on Sam than you are. Or he's not as high on Trey as you are. So our head coach that is around Trey alot seems to have a similar mindset as many of us. Even if Trey doesn't get traded.

Trey imo would be a better prospect than Levis or Richardson. So if there are trepidation on selecting Stroud I could easily seem him spending less on Trey than he would forcing a QB pick. Throw in the consolation prize of Will Anderson and it makes a ton of Sense for Demarco. He could get his Bosa for his defense. It doesn't have to mean he thinks Trey is some stud. Could just mean he gets his edge guy and a QB at a discount price.

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
So a guy that was here with Trey passes on all the QBs in this draft (minus Young) for Lance? He must think he's pretty damn good. Yeah let's move a 22 yr old QB for some unknown rookies in a bad draft lol. Niners really knock it out of the park doing stuff like that.

here's a thought. Brock isn't healthy and no one knows when or how he will play when he's finally healthy. They got an actual know bad starter in Sam…so keeping Lance and seeing what he can do this season, seems reasonable to me.

Of course keeping him seems reasonable to you. Because it's you who think it's a bad draft. You also think we only got a quarter and half of data to judge Trey on. You also think he has a chance to be some special QB.

There are a number of us who think there is good talent to be had in the 2nd. Or possibly end of 1st if we get enough in a trade to move up.

We also think we have more data than 5 quarters. Especially the ones who weren't as high on him from the beginning. The fact that Kyle had no problem naming Purdy QB1 and instead of naming Trey QB2 he declared competition with the known bad starter should tell you something. That suggest he is either higher on Sam than you are. Or he's not as high on Trey as you are. So our head coach that is around Trey alot seems to have a similar mindset as many of us. Even if Trey doesn't get traded.

Trey imo would be a better prospect than Levis or Richardson. So if there are trepidation on selecting Stroud I could easily seem him spending less on Trey than he would forcing a QB pick. Throw in the consolation prize of Will Anderson and it makes a ton of Sense for Demarco. He could get his Bosa for his defense. It doesn't have to mean he thinks Trey is some stud. Could just mean he gets his edge guy and a QB at a discount price.

I'd be happy for Trey if he went to the Texans because he would be able to play in a familiar system with familiar coaches but on a team that isn't expected to win. That way he can get the experience he desperately needs.

but it would need to be the right offer. I don't think we should just get rid of Lance.

Originally posted by tankle104:
I'd be happy for Trey if he went to the Texans because he would be able to play in a familiar system with familiar coaches but on a team that isn't expected to win. That way he can get the experience he desperately needs.

but it would need to be the right offer. I don't think we should just get rid of Lance.

No reasonable fan does. Sure some may say things to incite the Trey side but no one truly want him traded for peanuts. Though, I guess we all have our own definition of peanuts. So there is that

I don't put much stock into Kyle indicating that Brock is the starter as of now if he's healthy. What else is he going to say. He needs to see if Trey has progressed after the off season work he has put in before he can say that it's an open competition. Writers ask coaches questions and they have to say something. That doesn't mean it's cast in stone. Trey could look great and bypass Brock. Darnold could surprise everyone and bypass both of them. Every position is an open competition from one week to the next. Players know that every guy backing them up is one injury or one bad game away from replacing the starter.

Unless they get a really good offer for trey, he's a better and cheaper option for now. He's at least been in the system for a couple of years even though he hasn't been able to play much. I'd rather have him than some kid out of college that doesn't know the system at all. The chances of finding another Purdy in the late rounds are pretty slim.

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by tankle104:
I'd be happy for Trey if he went to the Texans because he would be able to play in a familiar system with familiar coaches but on a team that isn't expected to win. That way he can get the experience he desperately needs.

but it would need to be the right offer. I don't think we should just get rid of Lance.

No reasonable fan does. Sure some may say things to incite the Trey side but no one truly want him traded for peanuts. Though, I guess we all have our own definition of peanuts. So there is that

Right, Some will feel like anything short of multiple first or so is for "peanuts". That's because they're comparing it to the initial trade where we used three firsts overall on getting Trey, which I always felt like was super steep but it is what it is.

we will find out soon enough. I personally don't think Lance is traded during the draft, but who knows. I do think it would be a little reckless to trade him before we know how Purdy is doing and only having Darnold. On the other hand, if we do trade him before we know when Purdy can throw, it'll say a lot about how the team feels regarding Trey, in my opinion.

i just hope that whatever we do, it works out well for the 49ers.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
So a guy that was here with Trey passes on all the QBs in this draft (minus Young) for Lance? He must think he's pretty damn good. Yeah let's move a 22 yr old QB for some unknown rookies in a bad draft lol. Niners really knock it out of the park doing stuff like that.

here's a thought. Brock isn't healthy and no one knows when or how he will play when he's finally healthy. They got an actual know bad starter in Sam…so keeping Lance and seeing what he can do this season, seems reasonable to me.

brock does his thing all yr, then move Lance in the off season. A whole hell of a lot could and usually does happen between now and then.

So if the texans at #2 either move down or/and take a non QB. Then offered #12 for Lance you would say no?
That goes for the titans, washington, patriots, and jets. If one of them offered 10-15 you would say no?

Man if those talks for Trey are happening i would also be in talks with 18-31 if they had interest in moving up in that range.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
I don't put much stock into Kyle indicating that Brock is the starter as of now if he's healthy. What else is he going to say. He needs to see if Trey has progressed after the off season work he has put in before he can say that it's an open competition. Writers ask coaches questions and they have to say something. That doesn't mean it's cast in stone. Trey could look great and bypass Brock. Darnold could surprise everyone and bypass both of them. Every position is an open competition from one week to the next. Players know that every guy backing them up is one injury or one bad game away from replacing the starter.

Unless they get a really good offer for trey, he's a better and cheaper option for now. He's at least been in the system for a couple of years even though he hasn't been able to play much. I'd rather have him than some kid out of college that doesn't know the system at all. The chances of finding another Purdy in the late rounds are pretty slim.

He didn't have to say anything. Uts the perfect situation to say nothing. Could have just said, Brock is hurt Trey will get 1st team reps until we see what's going on with all our QBs to see where we're at.

Instead he stated Brock was QB1. Trey in competition with Darnold. Then when asked about Trey passing Brock, he said it would be really hard.

As for not knowing the system, JG and Brock stepped right. I don't think that's a huge advantage for Trey. Especially considering his lack of overall experience

When we moved up, I was sure it was for Mac Jones. It just fit the WCO, where you don't need a huge arm, but quick headwork and great accuracy for RAC. The fans, and I believe Lynch, all screamed bloody murder for not shooting higher for "traits", Kyle was out on a limb by himself and quite vulnerable personnally if it didn't work, and he did see the advantage of athleticism in his quarterback, so he relented and surprised and delighted Lynch when he asked him if he was ready to draft Trey Lance. Kyle then said that he didn't think that Jones had the quickest mind, but in fact Lance did. OK, I don't know what he's seeing, but OK, if he does, I'm on board.

Now he's got two complete off seasons and regular seasons working with him. Remember, Kyle's the guy that would prefer to get rid of preseason games altogether because he can learn everything he needs to know in practice. The only things games help in is to see if they play the same way when hit and under game pressure. Kyle knows what he's got in Trey, and he will Always change his game plan to best use his qb, while not necessarily liking having to. He runs Trey between the tackles. He runs the read option. That's not what he wants to do. That tells you he does not trust him to run what he does want to run. When Trey does play, it's not awful, but it's not good either. It's raw.

What has he done this year? He brought in Sam Darnold, who won 4 of 6 games with a poor team, and Sam signed on the First Day of free agence. He could have surely gotten a starting gig. He didn't come here to be qb3. Why would he? He knows. Sam was a draft favorite of Kyle's, and like Trey, went 3rd overall. He's got 5 years experience. Yes, crap teams, crap coaches, and not great play. But, in this SB run opportunity, if Kyle needs someone to fill in for a couple of games, is he going to start the guy he Knows is So raw, or is he going to work with the experienced, talented guy, that just needs to learn to settle down and look for what Kyle will tell him to look for. It's option B folks.

Couple this with Everybody agreeing that Trey needs experience, Lots of it. We're just not going to waste this SB roster giving that to him. And value wise, if Trey can't start over Sam, and in my mind he won't, his trade value is zippo. After this year, it's worse, in that he's now qb3, doesn't play, has only 1 year left on his contract, and the new team can't even Think of exercising the 5th year option of $20m+ for someone that hasn't shown he's a starting player.

Oh, and now we're looking at quarterbacks in the draft. Let's see. Brock, Sam, Trey, and a 3rd round draft pick. Which one of these investments are you going to waste and make vulnerable on the PS? We better trade one of them.

Originally posted by CharlieSheen:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by CharlieSheen:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by CharlieSheen:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by riverrunzthruit:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by mayo49:
Why? You confuse me sometimes.

Moving him makes zero sense. I agree with you

Moving your son makes perfect sense from an objective professional football business perspective, but 0.00000000000% sense if you cling to a subjective faith in the unproven productivity of a poorly performing asset:

[1] Cut Your Losses - Shanalynch was forced by ownership to draft TL, that is the only scenario that makes sense, they knew they had to play him a sufficient amount to expose the ruse pick for what it is, and to demonstrate to the world the folly of their unforced error, a total blunder by ownership void of football acumen... prudent business managers ruthlessly cut their under performing assets and TL is no exception... he must must cut loose to free resources

Stopped reading right there. It's verifiably false according to the only pieces of actual evidence available (as opposed to blind speculation from "sources"). I'd list the things I'm 99% you believe, things that lack any evidence at all but just fit nicely into a stQry, which is why peQple believe these things, but it's against the rules to list them here. HQwever, I can be Quite certain because you seem to clearly believe sQmething simply because it has weak explanatQry power rather than because the EVIDENCE suppQrts it, willfully ignQring Qther explanations which fit the evidence better because they dQn't have as exciting and cQntrQversial a stQry as the Qne you prefer.

There is no evidence Kyle was forced to draft anyone, and all the actual evidence suggests he chose Lance because of what Josh Allen and Mahomes did to us. Most likely due to a desire to incorporate the QB run into his offense to achieve "positionless football," and there's a chance he was convinced by Lynch, after Lynch probably said, "I told you so" about Mahomes, but that's... SPECULATION, so I'm not going to sit here and state it as fact.

If you listen to Kyles interview it does sound like he needed to be convinced. I don't think he was forced, but it doesn't seem like they were all in agreeance from the start. Come draft day though they all agreed on Trey

Oh, you mean the Kyle who sent John Lynch a highlight reel cut up of Lance in winter? If you listen to the interviews, he liked all three of the guys and was deciding until a week before the draft.

Yes that Kyle. The one who was convinced by Trey the person more than Trey the football player. He wasn't sold on Trey, it took some time

"the more I got to know the guy, the more I got to find out some stuff about him, the more I believed in what I didn't see and what I believe we will see"

There you go again pointing out one piece of the puzzle and ignoring the rest. You ignored the part where he made a cutup video of Trey and sent it to Lynch. It's more complicated than your apparent argument here. He liked all three. All three had strengths and all three had weaknesses.

The cut up video is cool. Trey was intriguing but when he's saying he was going to see what he didn't see, that implies he didn't see enough. Trey the person convinced him

Yes, Trey was a prospect in need of development. That is not something not known. In fact everyone knew that, including (obviously) Shanahan. All the evidence says Shanahan was juggling between all three until just the end of the process, where Trey's physical gifts and attitude gave him the advantage over the other two. Now, the thing here is that there is not yet any evidence to suggest his flaws (which are mainly due to lack of experience) are insurmountable. That is NOT what's happening here. Not at ALL. What has happened here is BROCK PURDY. Purdy showed that he can be a very good QB in this league, and that puts a damper on the entire plan to develop Trey. It is NOT that Shanahan and the team suddenly thinks Trey just doesn't have what it takes to develop. It's that BROCK IS ALREADY DEVELOPED, and already darn good.

So yeah, all this nonsense needs to stop. None of this is an indictment on Trey, who very well may still have a productive career (even possibly here). It's instead a simple case of Brock being a revelation.

Originally posted by tankle104:

Originally posted by CharlieSheen:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by CharlieSheen:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by CharlieSheen:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by riverrunzthruit:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by mayo49:
Why? You confuse me sometimes.

Moving him makes zero sense. I agree with you

Moving your son makes perfect sense from an objective professional football business perspective, but 0.00000000000% sense if you cling to a subjective faith in the unproven productivity of a poorly performing asset:

[1] Cut Your Losses - Shanalynch was forced by ownership to draft TL, that is the only scenario that makes sense, they knew they had to play him a sufficient amount to expose the ruse pick for what it is, and to demonstrate to the world the folly of their unforced error, a total blunder by ownership void of football acumen... prudent business managers ruthlessly cut their under performing assets and TL is no exception... he must must cut loose to free resources

Stopped reading right there. It's verifiably false according to the only pieces of actual evidence available (as opposed to blind speculation from "sources"). I'd list the things I'm 99% you believe, things that lack any evidence at all but just fit nicely into a stQry, which is why peQple believe these things, but it's against the rules to list them here. HQwever, I can be Quite certain because you seem to clearly believe sQmething simply because it has weak explanatQry power rather than because the EVIDENCE suppQrts it, willfully ignQring Qther explanations which fit the evidence better because they dQn't have as exciting and cQntrQversial a stQry as the Qne you prefer.

There is no evidence Kyle was forced to draft anyone, and all the actual evidence suggests he chose Lance because of what Josh Allen and Mahomes did to us. Most likely due to a desire to incorporate the QB run into his offense to achieve "positionless football," and there's a chance he was convinced by Lynch, after Lynch probably said, "I told you so" about Mahomes, but that's... SPECULATION, so I'm not going to sit here and state it as fact.

If you listen to Kyles interview it does sound like he needed to be convinced. I don't think he was forced, but it doesn't seem like they were all in agreeance from the start. Come draft day though they all agreed on Trey

Oh, you mean the Kyle who sent John Lynch a highlight reel cut up of Lance in winter? If you listen to the interviews, he liked all three of the guys and was deciding until a week before the draft.

Yes that Kyle. The one who was convinced by Trey the person more than Trey the football player. He wasn't sold on Trey, it took some time

"the more I got to know the guy, the more I got to find out some stuff about him, the more I believed in what I didn't see and what I believe we will see"

There you go again pointing out one piece of the puzzle and ignoring the rest. You ignored the part where he made a cutup video of Trey and sent it to Lynch. It's more complicated than your apparent argument here. He liked all three. All three had strengths and all three had weaknesses.

The cut up video is cool. Trey was intriguing but when he's saying he was going to see what he didn't see, that implies he didn't see enough. Trey the person convinced him

That at least makes me feel better about my analysis of him. I've said it a bunch "idk what they saw on his film that made hem think he would be good At playing qb on this level".

they did get to meet and talk with Trey, his teammates, and his coaches. Which is helpful but sometimes you have to be careful with that stuff because programs will say whatever if it means making their program look good with a high first round pick.

trey is definitely talented, no doubt about that. I just never understood what they saw on film. That's where I struggle with getting behind me.

My speculation:

Most likely what Shanahan saw was the QB power and then the red zone fake QB power touchdown passes to wide open guys in the NDSU tape. Shanahan was thickest in the forest of his "positionless football" ideas back then (it's still a thing now, but then he was willing to bring the QB into it). Given the third pick, he had two mobile guys, one pocket guy, and no doubt the notion of adding this additional element intrigued him greatly. So between Fields and Lance, it was probably the interviews, testing, and the obvious fact that Trey showed in college that he got through reads faster (as well as played under center). That pushed Fields out, leaving the main contest between a rough, raw, but talented guy who could add that additional QB run element (and passes off of it), versus a solid pocket passer who wasn't spectacular but who could operate the offense.

Shanahan decided on the additional offensive weapon, probably because they had Jimmy, which would allow them to develop Trey. Trey's injury history and the sudden emergence of Brock derailed that plan. Especially the latter part there. Shanahan has not had an offense operate as well as under Brock since he was with the 2016 Falcons. That no doubt shocked him out of his dreams of all five eligible receivers AND the QB being legitimate run threats.