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Originally posted by DaleGribble:
Was I imagining it when Kyle said Trash Darnold would be competing with Lance?
Originally posted by SLCNiner:Looks like you place as much value on practice as Allen Iverson because Kyles seen plenty of Lance in practice to form an opinion.
Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
Originally posted by SLCNiner:
I try to look at what's best for the tam overall, and Trey is in a position right now to help the team, whereas an unknown draft pick at an unknown position who is more likely to be a bust based off the teams draft history is not in any position to help the team. So it's a real good thing the team is not trading him, but y'all can keep wishing.
Trey may not be in a position to help this team other than as a QB3. That remains to be seen. If we were to keep him through the draft and into camp and he's playing great, the situation gets reevaluated.
As far as your last comment, I don't see many people wishing to trade him for just anything. There's a hope he'd get a worthwhile return. I'm certain I made that point clear in my post in regards to my personal feelings.
Do you think that spending massive draft capitol on players, giving them less than a handful of games to prove themselves, then trading them for substantially less on another unknown player is a good way to build a championship team? Do you think it's is sustainable? I don't.
Saying Trey is QB3 right now makes your bias much more noticeable, though. Other than a handful of people on here who truly dislike the kid, I have heard nothing from the team to suggest Trey will be doing anything other than starting the season as QB1. Where did you get that information?
Originally posted by DaleGribble:
Originally posted by SLCNiner:Was I imagining it when Kyle said Trash Darnold would be competing with Lance?
Originally posted by DaleGribble:
Originally posted by ptw1:And yet Darnolds the guy they brought in day one of fa to compete with Trey,what does that tell you?
Originally posted by BOI49er:
When we moved up, I was sure it was for Mac Jones. It just fit the WCO, where you don't need a huge arm, but quick headwork and great accuracy for RAC. The fans, and I believe Lynch, all screamed bloody murder for not shooting higher for "traits", Kyle was out on a limb by himself and quite vulnerable personnally if it didn't work, and he did see the advantage of athleticism in his quarterback, so he relented and surprised and delighted Lynch when he asked him if he was ready to draft Trey Lance. Kyle then said that he didn't think that Jones had the quickest mind, but in fact Lance did. OK, I don't know what he's seeing, but OK, if he does, I'm on board.
Now he's got two complete off seasons and regular seasons working with him. Remember, Kyle's the guy that would prefer to get rid of preseason games altogether because he can learn everything he needs to know in practice. The only things games help in is to see if they play the same way when hit and under game pressure. Kyle knows what he's got in Trey, and he will Always change his game plan to best use his qb, while not necessarily liking having to. He runs Trey between the tackles. He runs the read option. That's not what he wants to do. That tells you he does not trust him to run what he does want to run. When Trey does play, it's not awful, but it's not good either. It's raw.
What has he done this year? He brought in Sam Darnold, who won 4 of 6 games with a poor team, and Sam signed on the First Day of free agence. He could have surely gotten a starting gig. He didn't come here to be qb3. Why would he? He knows. Sam was a draft favorite of Kyle's, and like Trey, went 3rd overall. He's got 5 years experience. Yes, crap teams, crap coaches, and not great play. But, in this SB run opportunity, if Kyle needs someone to fill in for a couple of games, is he going to start the guy he Knows is So raw, or is he going to work with the experienced, talented guy, that just needs to learn to settle down and look for what Kyle will tell him to look for. It's option B folks.
Couple this with Everybody agreeing that Trey needs experience, Lots of it. We're just not going to waste this SB roster giving that to him. And value wise, if Trey can't start over Sam, and in my mind he won't, his trade value is zippo. After this year, it's worse, in that he's now qb3, doesn't play, has only 1 year left on his contract, and the new team can't even Think of exercising the 5th year option of $20m+ for someone that hasn't shown he's a starting player.
Oh, and now we're looking at quarterbacks in the draft. Let's see. Brock, Sam, Trey, and a 3rd round draft pick. Which one of these investments are you going to waste and make vulnerable on the PS? We better trade one of them.
1 of those games "he won", he almost had as many completions to the other team as he did to his team. and no, he surely could not have gotten a starting gig this off season. we can debate trey but there's no debate that darnold has been trash.
It tells me the team took a flyer on a low risk, high reward player at a position that we desperately needed to be deeper at last year. Seeing anything more is imaginative speculation.
Originally posted by JaggedJ:
They've made it apparent they're always open for business. That's been consistent for 6 years now and they've said nothing that wavers from that this off season.
Originally posted by SLCNiner:
Dude, until someone, ANYONE has been named the starter, all QBs by definition will complete against each other. Did you really need the team to announce that?
Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
Originally posted by JaggedJ:
They've made it apparent they're always open for business. That's been consistent for 6 years now and they've said nothing that wavers from that this off season.
It definitely looks to be beyond that. Look at Rapoport's report from Wednesday. If you don't think Rapoport flat out made up what he was reporting, it doesn't make very much sense that the information came from anywhere else but us.
Originally posted by JaggedJ:
Depends on how serious the calls are. A quick inquiry or an actual discussion on potential compensation. There could be several plausible scenarios where he gets it from someone else or us.
It's draft season and QB's are the #1 topic. There's going to be a ton of back and forth and cross information that could them come across Ian's desk.
Originally posted by SLCNiner:
Originally posted by DaleGribble:
Was I imagining it when Kyle said Trash Darnold would be competing with Lance?
Dude, until someone, ANYONE has been named the starter, all QBs by definition will complete against each other. Did you really need the team to announce that?
almost nobody thought Darnold would be competing when he was signed he was thought of as a 3rd stringer at best,that's why it made headlines.
Originally posted by JaggedJ:
Originally posted by DaleGribble:
Originally posted by SLCNiner:Was I imagining it when Kyle said Trash Darnold would be competing with Lance?
Originally posted by DaleGribble:
Originally posted by ptw1:And yet Darnolds the guy they brought in day one of fa to compete with Trey,what does that tell you?
Originally posted by BOI49er:
When we moved up, I was sure it was for Mac Jones. It just fit the WCO, where you don't need a huge arm, but quick headwork and great accuracy for RAC. The fans, and I believe Lynch, all screamed bloody murder for not shooting higher for "traits", Kyle was out on a limb by himself and quite vulnerable personnally if it didn't work, and he did see the advantage of athleticism in his quarterback, so he relented and surprised and delighted Lynch when he asked him if he was ready to draft Trey Lance. Kyle then said that he didn't think that Jones had the quickest mind, but in fact Lance did. OK, I don't know what he's seeing, but OK, if he does, I'm on board.
Now he's got two complete off seasons and regular seasons working with him. Remember, Kyle's the guy that would prefer to get rid of preseason games altogether because he can learn everything he needs to know in practice. The only things games help in is to see if they play the same way when hit and under game pressure. Kyle knows what he's got in Trey, and he will Always change his game plan to best use his qb, while not necessarily liking having to. He runs Trey between the tackles. He runs the read option. That's not what he wants to do. That tells you he does not trust him to run what he does want to run. When Trey does play, it's not awful, but it's not good either. It's raw.
What has he done this year? He brought in Sam Darnold, who won 4 of 6 games with a poor team, and Sam signed on the First Day of free agence. He could have surely gotten a starting gig. He didn't come here to be qb3. Why would he? He knows. Sam was a draft favorite of Kyle's, and like Trey, went 3rd overall. He's got 5 years experience. Yes, crap teams, crap coaches, and not great play. But, in this SB run opportunity, if Kyle needs someone to fill in for a couple of games, is he going to start the guy he Knows is So raw, or is he going to work with the experienced, talented guy, that just needs to learn to settle down and look for what Kyle will tell him to look for. It's option B folks.
Couple this with Everybody agreeing that Trey needs experience, Lots of it. We're just not going to waste this SB roster giving that to him. And value wise, if Trey can't start over Sam, and in my mind he won't, his trade value is zippo. After this year, it's worse, in that he's now qb3, doesn't play, has only 1 year left on his contract, and the new team can't even Think of exercising the 5th year option of $20m+ for someone that hasn't shown he's a starting player.
Oh, and now we're looking at quarterbacks in the draft. Let's see. Brock, Sam, Trey, and a 3rd round draft pick. Which one of these investments are you going to waste and make vulnerable on the PS? We better trade one of them.
1 of those games "he won", he almost had as many completions to the other team as he did to his team. and no, he surely could not have gotten a starting gig this off season. we can debate trey but there's no debate that darnold has been trash.
It tells me the team took a flyer on a low risk, high reward player at a position that we desperately needed to be deeper at last year. Seeing anything more is imaginative speculation.
Why would he say anything else? What else could he say?
Originally posted by JaggedJ:Did you honestly expecting him to say Darnold would be competing with Lance? Because I seem to recall most around here considering that thought to be a joke.
Originally posted by DaleGribble:
Originally posted by SLCNiner:Was I imagining it when Kyle said Trash Darnold would be competing with Lance?
Originally posted by DaleGribble:
Originally posted by ptw1:And yet Darnolds the guy they brought in day one of fa to compete with Trey,what does that tell you?
Originally posted by BOI49er:
When we moved up, I was sure it was for Mac Jones. It just fit the WCO, where you don't need a huge arm, but quick headwork and great accuracy for RAC. The fans, and I believe Lynch, all screamed bloody murder for not shooting higher for "traits", Kyle was out on a limb by himself and quite vulnerable personnally if it didn't work, and he did see the advantage of athleticism in his quarterback, so he relented and surprised and delighted Lynch when he asked him if he was ready to draft Trey Lance. Kyle then said that he didn't think that Jones had the quickest mind, but in fact Lance did. OK, I don't know what he's seeing, but OK, if he does, I'm on board.
Now he's got two complete off seasons and regular seasons working with him. Remember, Kyle's the guy that would prefer to get rid of preseason games altogether because he can learn everything he needs to know in practice. The only things games help in is to see if they play the same way when hit and under game pressure. Kyle knows what he's got in Trey, and he will Always change his game plan to best use his qb, while not necessarily liking having to. He runs Trey between the tackles. He runs the read option. That's not what he wants to do. That tells you he does not trust him to run what he does want to run. When Trey does play, it's not awful, but it's not good either. It's raw.
What has he done this year? He brought in Sam Darnold, who won 4 of 6 games with a poor team, and Sam signed on the First Day of free agence. He could have surely gotten a starting gig. He didn't come here to be qb3. Why would he? He knows. Sam was a draft favorite of Kyle's, and like Trey, went 3rd overall. He's got 5 years experience. Yes, crap teams, crap coaches, and not great play. But, in this SB run opportunity, if Kyle needs someone to fill in for a couple of games, is he going to start the guy he Knows is So raw, or is he going to work with the experienced, talented guy, that just needs to learn to settle down and look for what Kyle will tell him to look for. It's option B folks.
Couple this with Everybody agreeing that Trey needs experience, Lots of it. We're just not going to waste this SB roster giving that to him. And value wise, if Trey can't start over Sam, and in my mind he won't, his trade value is zippo. After this year, it's worse, in that he's now qb3, doesn't play, has only 1 year left on his contract, and the new team can't even Think of exercising the 5th year option of $20m+ for someone that hasn't shown he's a starting player.
Oh, and now we're looking at quarterbacks in the draft. Let's see. Brock, Sam, Trey, and a 3rd round draft pick. Which one of these investments are you going to waste and make vulnerable on the PS? We better trade one of them.
1 of those games "he won", he almost had as many completions to the other team as he did to his team. and no, he surely could not have gotten a starting gig this off season. we can debate trey but there's no debate that darnold has been trash.
It tells me the team took a flyer on a low risk, high reward player at a position that we desperately needed to be deeper at last year. Seeing anything more is imaginative speculation.
Why would he say anything else? What else could he say?
Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
The idea would be that you give yourself a good chance to gain a quality asset that can help you both short and long term for an asset that isn't positioned to do either.
Nothing is guaranteed to be successful.
Obviously how 'excited' a person would be about a trade depends on what was coming back and how they personally view Trey Lance. For me, I would accept a 1st round pick offer and never look back. If it was a 3rd round pick I'd rather just hang onto him, even if in the end we don't get a return through his play.
Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
Originally posted by JaggedJ:
They've made it apparent they're always open for business. That's been consistent for 6 years now and they've said nothing that wavers from that this off season.
It definitely looks to be beyond that. Look at Rapoport's report from Wednesday. If you don't think Rapoport flat out made up what he was reporting, it doesn't make very much sense that the information came from anywhere else but us.
Originally posted by Polkadots:
See, this is where you lose me. Why would any team offer a first for Trey? By your own, and other's admission, he hasn't done enough in the 49ers camp to warrant the time to grow due to Brock's emergence.
So, as an NFL GM, if I know this, why am I giving up a first round pick on a prospect who has not yet lived up to his draft position, while being surrounded by, while not CMC and Kittle all the time, a still very formidable offensive cast, with one of the top offensive minds in the league as his head coach? Trey isn't going to be in that good of a situation ANYWHERE else in the NFL. So, why give up a first for what, so far, has been play that does not come close to warranting a first?
It seems fairly obvious the most realistic offer is one where Trey is traded for pennies on the dollar. The rest of this is just wishful thinking from fans. I've seen no supporting evidence as to why an NFL GM would engage in such a high risk trade, short of "hope" and "potential." And with Trey, he is tarnished, in that 60% of his rookie contract is basically gone before he has any substantial tape / NFL experience, and he has had a season ending injury already in his career. All the knocks that apply to Trey are miraculously disregarded when it comes to other teams. But all teams think in a similar fashion. And none of that thinking results in a first round pick.
Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
Who stands to benefit from that information being leaked to Rapoport though is the illuminating question. It certainly isn't a team actually interested in potentially trading for Lance.
I'm sure there are calls made all the time on various players across all NFL teams. You hear about them publicly when a party is looking for leverage.
Originally posted by SLCNiner:
Originally posted by tankle104:
https://clutchpoints.com/nfl-rumors-buccaneers-colts-among-teams-inquiring-about-49ers-trey-lance-trade
Why the excitement over the mere thought of trading TL? Let's say hypothetically a team offered up a 1st round pick for him. There's no guarantee that pick will be any good, and we'd take a cap hit. So I'm struggling to see why anyone would want him traded, other than to just get him off the team.
Originally posted by Polkadots:Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:Who stands to benefit from that information being leaked to Rapoport though is the illuminating question. It certainly isn't a team actually interested in potentially trading for Lance.
I'm sure there are calls made all the time on various players across all NFL teams. You hear about them publicly when a party is looking for leverage.
This is another thing I take issue with.
So, you think teams put it out there a player is on the trading block to get leverage? Let's assume that is true. Other teams would know this is the case, since it stands to reason they too would have acted in this way in the past. As such, any perceived leverage doesn't actually exist, because other teams would understand the strategy. And if a team were to act in the way you have described, it would do for the 49ers the EXACT OPPOSITE of what you are putting forth as the benefit of said action.
I have said before, I question if we have many peolpe who have ever been involved in high risk trading. Because it just doesn't work this way. There are no secrets, everything is known. It simply comes down to who will, either voluntarily or involuntarily, give in first.
Further, history tells us reporters such as Rapoport are wrong just as often, if not more so, than they are right.