Los Angeles Chargers QB Trey Lance Thread

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
It is but I still think it's an example of him slowing his normal motion down versus using an abbreviated motion. That's a 20+ yard outside-the-numbers throw where there was zero pressure. You can almost see a slight pause or hitch and his upper half stop rotating as he's going through his motion. It's a lot of arm. He has the arm strength to be able to make that throw with a shorter release and I think that would lead to more consistent accuracy in the quick game and he wouldn't need the time or space in the pocket to execute it.

So you keep adding more stipulations after I show you a clip? now it's gotta be with pressure? It was a layered throw with touch and he made it look effortless.

heres one with pressure and off balance.

Here's another quick strike


I think you're overanalyzing and trying to find things.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Conveniently being ignored. pic.twitter.com/IItUBpnf56

— Rich (@richjmadrid) May 19, 2023

You know as well as I do how Pandora's box would be opened the second any of us say something about the fact that uh.. Kyle is the playcaller regardless who QB is... So why is it only a plus for Darnold and not Trey? lol.

As a side note.. I hope people don't forgot this: Trey was known for NOT turning the ball over in college, the exact opposite of Darnold. I encourage anyone to go back an look at Darnold's college scouting report. Despite being on a good team in college, turnovers and decision-making were a glaring flaw. You've seen that carry over to the pros. Shoot, he's kind of similar to Mullens who continued to be a turnover machine in the NFL despite throwing for a lot of yards and TDs in college (though obviously wasn't in the level of program Darnold was or as gifted physically in terms of size and arm).

Darnold hasn't had KS as a playcaller yet, so he gets an upgrade over what he has had, in his NFL career

coaching matters, review the int % of Alex Smith, he was a turnover factory, then JH came to town and there are literal quotes of JH explaining the most important thing for a QB is ball security, Alex darn near led the NFL year 1 under JH, which was a lockout season. KS even addressed the turnovers with Sam, he said look when you are chasing the game you gotta throw your way back into it, and those things happen. How often do we chase the game and need to go air raid here? And recall he was chasing the game with poor playmakers, bad coaches and OL, etc. A lot of the 49ers community is sleeping on Sam, the rest of the NFL not so much in terms of our situation, but 49er fans are, imo.

Faithful6, one thing I was trying point out was that Sam carried over a really really bad turnover and decision making problem from college to the NFL.

Both Trey and Alex were fantastic in college at protecting the ball and limiting mental mistakes. I think that's one big difference where I think it's valid to be skeptical. Aside from the eye test, which Sam really doesn't pass for me when it comes to all the bad throws, I'd be a lot more inclined to believe Sam's turnover problem was more impacted by his situation if he hadn't had these issues before the NFL.

I guess in a nutshell my feelings on the quarterback situation is this:

I'm going to put my neck out there and say depending on how reps go in the preseason, I think Lance will beat him out. I expect if Lance starts this year, he'd further show to be a superior quarterback to Darnold right now, despite his inexperience.

His raw talent IMO is superior. His upside is greater. His history with decision making is better. He knows our system better. He feels the rush much better and his internal clock seems better.

All that said, I want Sam on the final roster, he'll be the best #3 out there IMO.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
So you keep adding more stipulations after I show you a clip? now it's gotta be with pressure? It was a layered throw with touch and he made it look effortless.

heres one with pressure and off balance.

I liked this 3rd down conversion from Trey Lance. Good awareness and pocket presence to get this ball out quick and on point to move the sticks. pic.twitter.com/FeRfnfpZCz

— 49ers_Film (@49ers_Film) January 7, 2022

Here's another quick strike

Love the quick pass from Trey Lance to Deebo pic.twitter.com/sJ3pxokNcc

— John Chapman (@JL_Chapman) January 2, 2022

I think you're overanalyzing and trying to find things.

Well that's kind of my point. It didn't look effortless. It looked like he was doing a lot mechanically to control the pace of the ball. It was basically an all arm throw instead of a proper use of his body. I think that's one of the reasons we hear reports of arm fatigue. My point about the pressure was he can get away with making the throw like that because he has the space to do it... even though I don't think he'd be consistently accurate using that kind of motion even in space. The space just allows him to go through his normal motion, or in that case the slowed down version of it.

The top throw here in your most recent post is the best example you've used yet though. No complaints there.

The throw to Deebo was more of what we've already seen. When his feet are right he can fire a laser accurately.

Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Faithful6, one thing I was trying point out was that Sam carried over a really really bad turnover and decision making problem from college to the NFL.

Both Trey and Alex were fantastic in college at protecting the ball and limiting mental mistakes. I think that's one big difference where I think it's valid to be skeptical. Aside from the eye test, which Sam really doesn't pass for me when it comes to all the bad throws, I'd be a lot more inclined to believe Sam's turnover problem was more impacted by his situation if he hadn't had these issues before the NFL.

I guess in a nutshell my feelings on the quarterback situation is this:

I'm going to put my neck out there and say depending on how reps go in the preseason, I think Lance will beat him out. I expect if Lance starts this year, he'd further show to be a superior quarterback to Darnold right now, despite his inexperience.

His raw talent IMO is superior. His upside is greater. His history with decision making is better. He knows our system better. He feels the rush much better and his internal clock seems better.

All that said, I want Sam on the final roster, he'll be the best #3 out there IMO.

Winston was another one. A lot of TOs in college and that carried over to the NFL.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
Well that's kind of my point. It didn't look effortless. It looked like he was doing a lot mechanically to control the pace of the ball. It was basically an all arm throw instead of a proper use of his body. I think that's one of the reasons we hear reports of arm fatigue. My point about the pressure was he can get away with making the throw like that because he has the space to do it... even though I don't think he'd be consistently accurate using that kind of motion even in space. The space just allows him to go through his normal motion, or in that case the slowed down version of it.

The top throw here in your most recent post is the best example you've used yet though. No complaints there.

The throw to Deebo was more of what we've already seen. When his feet are right he can fire a laser accurately.

I'm sorry but nothing about that throw looked like it required a lot of work from him to make. It in fact looked effortless & with touch.

You're contradicting yourself. So he can get away with that throw because there's space for him to what? Step into it? And then when there's pressure and he can't step into it, what do you expect him to use? His arm strength.

I've shown you a layered pass that was 20+ yards downfield made effortlessly. I've showed you a one step drop in breaking route. I've showed you an off balance pressure throw that had touch. I showed you a practice throw, throwing on the run side arm made between defenders. I've showed you a quick slant pass.

The problem is people have tried to overanalyze 100 passing attempts and find anything wrong. Ya'll have painted a picture of bad in your head regardless of not seeing him throw a ball since October or it actually not being that bad.

TL has to make a few radical changes to his passing delivery for him to become a consistent and accurate passer, one who can make all the throws... he just doesn't have natural passing ability to do this, doesn't matter how my gurus coach him up... his passing delivery is one of the ugliest in the NFL I have seen

two basic changes that must be fixed is [1] his delivery must be shortened, it's too inefficient and takes too long, very similar in this regard to Kap's delivery, [2] he has to unlearn a delivery that slashes across his body, and learn how to bring the ball over the top of his shoulder plane, until he makes this change he will never have touch on certain throws because the arc on the ball at release is limited the way he throws now...

Originally posted by NYniner85:
I'm sorry but nothing about that throw looked like it required a lot of work from him to make. It in fact looked effortless & with touch.

You're contradicting yourself. So he can get away with that throw because there's space for him to what? Step into it? And then when there's pressure and he can't step into it, what do you expect him to use? His arm strength.

I've shown you a layered pass that was 20 yards downfield made effortlessly. I've showed you a one step drop in breaking route. I've showed you an off balance pressure throw that had touch. I showed you a practice throw, throwing on the run side arm made between defenders. I've showed you a quick slant pass.

The problem is people have tried to overanalyze 100 passing attempts and find anything wrong. Ya'll have painted a picture of bad in your head regardless of not seeing him throw a ball since October or it actually not being that bad.

I pointed out specific things about the Sherfield throw and instead of addressing them, you're re-asking questions I've already answered and pretending I'm being contradictory. You said it was effortless. I disagreed and explained why. You don't address the why and re-stated your claim. Cool.

Take a step back from the defensive position and realize that Trey is working to revamp his mechanics... and his private coach is acknowledging that he had issues and is working to address them.

What is it you think they were working on and why? I see you saying you wish they would explain exactly what it was in other posts... but if you had to take a guess, what would it be?

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
I think the general point is, you can turn the numbers around, not like it will always be a problem, here is an example of a guy who got it turned.

Clearly KS thinks he can get it turned on Sam, he mentioned it explicitly..

interestingly there is a Darnold / Lance stat comp.. now take this with a grain of salt, due to limited play time for TL, and the situations Sam was in, however,
their INT percent is basically the same. I think this article comps TLs 2021-22 seasons vs Sam's 21-22 seasons.

https://www.ninersnation.com/2023/5/17/23721428/49ers-stats-comparison-trey-lance-sam-darnold

Need more than just a grain.

Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Faithful6, one thing I was trying point out was that Sam carried over a really really bad turnover and decision making problem from college to the NFL.

Both Trey and Alex were fantastic in college at protecting the ball and limiting mental mistakes. I think that's one big difference where I think it's valid to be skeptical. Aside from the eye test, which Sam really doesn't pass for me when it comes to all the bad throws, I'd be a lot more inclined to believe Sam's turnover problem was more impacted by his situation if he hadn't had these issues before the NFL.

I guess in a nutshell my feelings on the quarterback situation is this:

I'm going to put my neck out there and say depending on how reps go in the preseason, I think Lance will beat him out. I expect if Lance starts this year, he'd further show to be a superior quarterback to Darnold right now, despite his inexperience.

His raw talent IMO is superior. His upside is greater. His history with decision making is better. He knows our system better. He feels the rush much better and his internal clock seems better.

All that said, I want Sam on the final roster, he'll be the best #3 out there IMO.

Co-sign

Originally posted by riverrunzthruit:
TL has to make a few radical changes to his passing delivery for him to become a consistent and accurate passer, one who can make all the throws... he just doesn't have natural passing ability to do this, doesn't matter how my gurus coach him up... his passing delivery is one of the ugliest in the NFL I have seen

two basic changes that must be fixed is [1] his delivery must be shortened, it's too inefficient and takes too long, very similar in this regard to Kap's delivery, [2] he has to unlearn a delivery that slashes across his body, and learn how to bring the ball over the top of his shoulder plane, until he makes this change he will never have touch on certain throws because the arc on the ball at release is limited the way he throws now...

Watch his college tape, his throwing motion is completely different, very quick and compact.

He altered it for his pro days and it's been janky ever since

Originally posted by WildBill:

Originally posted by tankle104:
That's the tough part about mechanics at this level, If your ability/mechanics aren't pretty natural to your throwing motion at this point - you'll easily revert if you stop working on them a lot. Doesn't mean he will quickly go back to his old throwing motion, but Josh Allen is a great example recently. Without his previous coach, Giants HC now, we saw his mechanics slip this year. Not the end of the world, just something that players have to keep in mind

i think it was young who said it takes about 10k practice reps before you can really break those poor habits.

That's why Walsh had his QB's do the fundamentals during OTAs and TC over and over, no time to work on them once the season begins. Only if you are doing it on your own after and before practice, but you would hope they are film prep instead.

Pretty sure the CBA prevents that now. There just isn't enough time.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
I'd love to know what they exactly said needed to be fixed overall.

The lower half.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
Well that's kind of my point. It didn't look effortless. It looked like he was doing a lot mechanically to control the pace of the ball. It was basically an all arm throw instead of a proper use of his body. I think that's one of the reasons we hear reports of arm fatigue. My point about the pressure was he can get away with making the throw like that because he has the space to do it... even though I don't think he'd be consistently accurate using that kind of motion even in space. The space just allows him to go through his normal motion, or in that case the slowed down version of it.

The top throw here in your most recent post is the best example you've used yet though. No complaints there.

The throw to Deebo was more of what we've already seen. When his feet are right he can fire a laser accurately.

I'm sorry but nothing about that throw looked like it required a lot of work from him to make. It in fact looked effortless & with touch.

You're contradicting yourself. So he can get away with that throw because there's space for him to what? Step into it? And then when there's pressure and he can't step into it, what do you expect him to use? His arm strength.

I've shown you a layered pass that was 20+ yards downfield made effortlessly. I've showed you a one step drop in breaking route. I've showed you an off balance pressure throw that had touch. I showed you a practice throw, throwing on the run side arm made between defenders. I've showed you a quick slant pass.

The problem is people have tried to overanalyze 100 passing attempts and find anything wrong. Ya'll have painted a picture of bad in your head regardless of not seeing him throw a ball since October or it actually not being that bad.

The problem with Trey wasn't ever things he just flat out couldn't do, it is just doing them with a greater degree of consistency. Improved mechanics should help that issue. The sailing passes should not be as frequent as they were. Now they just need to realize that he is not a running quarterback, he should almost never have running plays called for him, least of all QB power where he has to wade through the trenches.

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
Well that's kind of my point. It didn't look effortless. It looked like he was doing a lot mechanically to control the pace of the ball. It was basically an all arm throw instead of a proper use of his body. I think that's one of the reasons we hear reports of arm fatigue. My point about the pressure was he can get away with making the throw like that because he has the space to do it... even though I don't think he'd be consistently accurate using that kind of motion even in space. The space just allows him to go through his normal motion, or in that case the slowed down version of it.

The top throw here in your most recent post is the best example you've used yet though. No complaints there.

The throw to Deebo was more of what we've already seen. When his feet are right he can fire a laser accurately.

I'm sorry but nothing about that throw looked like it required a lot of work from him to make. It in fact looked effortless & with touch.

You're contradicting yourself. So he can get away with that throw because there's space for him to what? Step into it? And then when there's pressure and he can't step into it, what do you expect him to use? His arm strength.

I've shown you a layered pass that was 20+ yards downfield made effortlessly. I've showed you a one step drop in breaking route. I've showed you an off balance pressure throw that had touch. I showed you a practice throw, throwing on the run side arm made between defenders. I've showed you a quick slant pass.

The problem is people have tried to overanalyze 100 passing attempts and find anything wrong. Ya'll have painted a picture of bad in your head regardless of not seeing him throw a ball since October or it actually not being that bad.

The problem with Trey wasn't ever things he just flat out couldn't do, it is just doing them with a greater degree of consistency. Improved mechanics should help that issue. The sailing passes should not be as frequent as they were. Now they just need to realize that he is not a running quarterback, he should almost never have running plays called for him, least of all QB power where he has to wade through the trenches.

Lol what? He's good at that. It was a freak accident. He did that throughout college and in the NFL, and it helped our run game tremendously. Go look at our run stats with him under center.