Dallas Cowboys QB Trey Lance Thread

Originally posted by CharlieSheen:
You are saying it's because of Trey, when it's not. I don't think you are getting what I'm saying either. I can show Jimmy mesh points too where the defenders don't move. Is that because Trey was standing on the sideline lmao?

We can get that kind of movement without Trey, it is not because of Trey. I'm trying to see where Trey is THE reason for our boosted YPC, and I'm not seeing it.

Yes LBs moved, but to me it's more about the pulling Linmean and not the QB. They would move that way for any QB with 2 lineman pulling to that side. Watching the meshpoint isn't some amazing thing that only happens for Trey

This is something I'd like to see in video and not statistics myself.

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by CharlieSheen:

You are saying it's because of Trey, when it's not. I don't think you are getting what I'm saying either. I can show Jimmy mesh points too where the defenders don't move. Is that because Trey was standing on the sideline lmao?

We can get that kind of movement without Trey, it is not because of Trey. I'm trying to see where Trey is THE reason for our boosted YPC, and I'm not seeing it.

Yes LBs moved, but to me it's more about the pulling Linmean and not the QB. They would move that way for any QB with 2 lineman pulling to that side. Watching the meshpoint isn't some amazing thing that only happens for Trey

This is something I'd like to see in video and not statistics myself.

For sure. It's just hard for me to say he's a major help to our run game after 4 games where he hasn't looked like a strong runner. I get the numbers, but it's too small a sample to take anything substantial from. We've already seen why this years ypc was so high under Trey, and I didn't come away thinking we needed Trey to break those big runs off

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by CharlieSheen:
You are saying it's because of Trey, when it's not. I don't think you are getting what I'm saying either. I can show Jimmy mesh points too where the defenders don't move. Is that because Trey was standing on the sideline lmao?

We can get that kind of movement without Trey, it is not because of Trey. I'm trying to see where Trey is THE reason for our boosted YPC, and I'm not seeing it.

Yes LBs moved, but to me it's more about the pulling Linmean and not the QB. They would move that way for any QB with 2 lineman pulling to that side. Watching the meshpoint isn't some amazing thing that only happens for Trey

This is something I'd like to see in video and not statistics myself.

5GR did provide video, some people just don't see it, don't want to see it, don't agree with what they see, or don't even know what they are looking at. It is what it is

Originally posted by tankle104:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
You can show ONE OR TWO instances, but not DATA which supports it. You're going to sit here and pretend this isn't a thing that defenses worry about when playing the 49ers.



Are you really going to pretend with a straight face that this doesn't affect how teams play the 49ers? Especially in light of the FACT OF REALITY that the 49ers gain more yards per carry with Trey under center.

Was that 3rd and 13? Showing these clips with no context doesn't always tell the full story.

third and long, they don't play him the same because they don't think he will run that far to convert.

im not arguing that he doesn't add an element to the run game. Lol just saying that the run you posted doesn't mean much, nor explain why the defense played him like that.

update: funny thing is, I looked up the play and it was 3 & 13. Lmao he converted it though.

The context is that the team runs for 4.11 yards per carry when he's not under center and 5.4 when he is. It is utterly laughable to pretend he has no effect on the run game.


That make you feel better? Teams game plan for this when they play him.

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by CharlieSheen:

You are saying it's because of Trey, when it's not. I don't think you are getting what I'm saying either. I can show Jimmy mesh points too where the defenders don't move. Is that because Trey was standing on the sideline lmao?

We can get that kind of movement without Trey, it is not because of Trey. I'm trying to see where Trey is THE reason for our boosted YPC, and I'm not seeing it.

Yes LBs moved, but to me it's more about the pulling Linmean and not the QB. They would move that way for any QB with 2 lineman pulling to that side. Watching the meshpoint isn't some amazing thing that only happens for Trey

This is something I'd like to see in video and not statistics myself.

5GR did provide video, some people just don't see it, don't want to see it, don't agree with what they see, or don't even know what they are looking at. It is what it is

No he didn't. I'm the only one that's provided any video on what he's asking for

Originally posted by 49ers808:
5GR did provide video, some people just don't see it, don't want to see it, don't agree with what they see, or don't even know what they are looking at. It is what it is

Only video I seen so far was Trey . I haven't been following this topic closely though if I'm being honest

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by 49ers808:

5GR did provide video, some people just don't see it, don't want to see it, don't agree with what they see, or don't even know what they are looking at. It is what it is

Only video I seen so far was Trey . I haven't been following this topic closely though if I'm being honest

I swear people don't actually read what we post. Not sure where he thinks 5GR provided video of Brock or Jimmy in similar situations

Originally posted by CharlieSheen:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by 49ers808:
5GR did provide video, some people just don't see it, don't want to see it, don't agree with what they see, or don't even know what they are looking at. It is what it is

Only video I seen so far was Trey . I haven't been following this topic closely though if I'm being honest

I swear people don't actually read what we post. Not sure where he thinks 5GR provided video of Brock or Jimmy in similar situations

I don't care who provides it. I legit just want to see if it is Trey or the play. Don't even want to debate about it. I legit would just like to know.

Originally posted by CharlieSheen:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by 49ers808:
5GR did provide video, some people just don't see it, don't want to see it, don't agree with what they see, or don't even know what they are looking at. It is what it is

Only video I seen so far was Trey . I haven't been following this topic closely though if I'm being honest

I swear people don't actually read what we post. Not sure where he thinks 5GR provided video of Brock or Jimmy in similar situations

Your video showed DEFENSIVE ENDS whose LITERAL JOBS are contain, not middle linebackers being pulled in to stop a QB power look. Nevertheless, I'm not saying it's impossible for that to happen. I'm saying on that particular play with Deebo, the two middle linebackers were worried about inverted veer aka the power read. And over a larger sample size than two plays (say, 120 plays), you see the clear pattern that the team gains more yards per carry with Trey in there.
You've yet to really address the ypc being higher with Trey, other than to wave it away as a miracle caused by the "small" sample size of over 120 carries. Teams play the run differently when Trey is in there because the 49ers run him a tremendous amount of times.

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by CharlieSheen:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by 49ers808:

5GR did provide video, some people just don't see it, don't want to see it, don't agree with what they see, or don't even know what they are looking at. It is what it is

Only video I seen so far was Trey . I haven't been following this topic closely though if I'm being honest

I swear people don't actually read what we post. Not sure where he thinks 5GR provided video of Brock or Jimmy in similar situations

I don't care who provides it. I legit just want to see if it is Trey or the play. Don't even want to debate about it. I legit would just like to know.

I showed some Brock plays. Here's a Jimmy one where I think it's Wagner in the middle that he gets to move to the right a little. He does not shoot the obvious gap immediately because he's watching the meshpoint and Jimmys run threat even made him move towards the right, opening the lane for CMC.

It's just ridiculous to analyze every defenders move and say it's because of the QB. We can play that game with any QB

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Your video showed DEFENSIVE ENDS whose LITERAL JOBS are contain, not middle linebackers being pulled in to stop a QB power look. Nevertheless, I'm not saying it's impossible for that to happen. I'm saying on that particular play with Deebo, the two middle linebackers were worried about inverted veer aka the power read. And over a larger sample size than two plays (say, 120 plays), you see the clear pattern that the team gains more yards per carry with Trey in there.
You've yet to really address the ypc being higher with Trey, other than to wave it away as a miracle caused by the "small" sample size of over 120 carries. Teams play the run differently when Trey is in there because the 49ers run him a tremendous amount of times.

Got one for you where Jimmy pulls the middle Lb over and gets CMC a rushing TD. Check it out

Originally posted by CharlieSheen:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by 49ers808:
5GR did provide video, some people just don't see it, don't want to see it, don't agree with what they see, or don't even know what they are looking at. It is what it is

Only video I seen so far was Trey . I haven't been following this topic closely though if I'm being honest

I swear people don't actually read what we post. Not sure where he thinks 5GR provided video of Brock or Jimmy in similar situations

Brock or Jimmy? Okay maybe I'm wrong and in the wrong thread, but I thought it was about Trey and him being on the field forcing the defense to respect him keeping the ball. The video 5GR provided CLEARLY showed that for me by the reaction of the backers, but to each their own which really was my point.

Originally posted by CharlieSheen:
I showed some Brock plays. Here's a Jimmy one where I think it's Wagner in the middle that he gets to move to the right a little. He does not shoot the obvious gap immediately because he's watching the meshpoint and Jimmys run threat even made him move towards the right, opening the lane for CMC.

It's just ridiculous to analyze every defenders move and say it's because of the QB. We can play that game with any QB

THE TOUCHDOWN TRIPLE CROWN.

A passing, receiving, and now a rushing TD for @CMC_22!

📺: #SFvsLAR on FOX
📱: Stream on NFL+ https://t.co/cSiNcKjZJe pic.twitter.com/IyaTMsAgFT

— NFL (@NFL) October 30, 2022

Wait, you think Jimmy was a run threat on that play? Meaning Jimmy had the option to keep it?

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by CharlieSheen:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by 49ers808:

5GR did provide video, some people just don't see it, don't want to see it, don't agree with what they see, or don't even know what they are looking at. It is what it is

Only video I seen so far was Trey . I haven't been following this topic closely though if I'm being honest

I swear people don't actually read what we post. Not sure where he thinks 5GR provided video of Brock or Jimmy in similar situations

Brock or Jimmy? Okay maybe I'm wrong and in the wrong thread, but I thought it was about Trey and him being on the field forcing the defense to respect him keeping the ball. The video 5GR provided CLEARLY showed that for me by the reaction of the backers, but to each their own which really was my point.

Yea it's LBs taking one step towards the side 2 lineman were pulling. It isn't like a panic step like "HERE COMES TREY". They barely even reacted considering the way the lineman were pulling

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by CharlieSheen:

I showed some Brock plays. Here's a Jimmy one where I think it's Wagner in the middle that he gets to move to the right a little. He does not shoot the obvious gap immediately because he's watching the meshpoint and Jimmys run threat even made him move towards the right, opening the lane for CMC.

It's just ridiculous to analyze every defenders move and say it's because of the QB. We can play that game with any QB

THE TOUCHDOWN TRIPLE CROWN.

A passing, receiving, and now a rushing TD for @CMC_22!

📺: #SFvsLAR on FOX
📱: Stream on NFL+ https://t.co/cSiNcKjZJe pic.twitter.com/IyaTMsAgFT

— NFL (@NFL) October 30, 2022

Wait, you think Jimmy was a run threat on that play? Meaning Jimmy had the option to keep it?

No I just go extreme to make my points. Not every hesitation or wrong step is because of a run threat QB