Originally posted by NCommand:
LOL. What happened to, "I don't need Kurt Warner to think for me?"
Here's part II. Great stuff.
I don't need him to think for me. Haven't even watched the video. I watched the games, he took way more shots than Jimmy did. Stats that BayArea posted showed that.
You can just admit you were wrong. It's ok
Wait. If NCommand is saying the scheme didn't let the QB take shots, then the video he just posted disproves him. Are you sure that is what NCommand is arguing, or did he just not watch the whole video? Because in this video Warner shows that Purdy was still taking shots and chances in that game even after the large lead.
That was the other Kurt Warner video. Stay with the theme. Haha.
The second video also shows Purdy taking a bunch of shots. You're making me think you only watched the first two minutes.
You've completely missed the point. Both Warner and JTO have videos showing how the lack of outlets and the scheme put the QB at risk in this system. That's a Kyle-topic. But fans in here mocked both of those and said silly things like, "I don't need Warner to think for me." LOL
Now he's being referenced here because it matches their narrative.
I just saw the irony in that. All the videos were accurate, IMHO.
As to Brock, I'm not sure where the silly dink and dunk label came from (hence why I posted the second video as well). We never even had a RB outlet under Kyle until we traded for CMC. Is Brock more aggressive? Yes. But unless his name is Alex Smith, most rookies are by nature. They tend to become more conservative and cautious over time.
Originally posted by NCommand:
LOL. What happened to, "I don't need Kurt Warner to think for me?"
Here's part II. Great stuff.
I don't need him to think for me. Haven't even watched the video. I watched the games, he took way more shots than Jimmy did. Stats that BayArea posted showed that.
You can just admit you were wrong. It's ok
Wait. If NCommand is saying the scheme didn't let the QB take shots, then the video he just posted disproves him. Are you sure that is what NCommand is arguing, or did he just not watch the whole video? Because in this video Warner shows that Purdy was still taking shots and chances in that game even after the large lead.
That was the other Kurt Warner video. Stay with the theme. Haha.
The second video also shows Purdy taking a bunch of shots. You're making me think you only watched the first two minutes.
You've completely missed the point. Both Warner and JTO have videos showing how the lack of outlets and the scheme put the QB at risk in this system. That's a Kyle-topic. But fans in here mocked both of those and said silly things like, "I don't need Warner to think for me." LOL
Now he's being referenced here because it matches their narrative.
I just saw the irony in that. All the videos were accurate, IMHO.
As to Brock, I'm not sure where the silly dink and dunk label came from (hence why I posted the second video as well). We never even had a RB outlet under Kyle until we traded for CMC. Is Brock more aggressive? Yes. But unless his name is Alex Smith, most rookies are by nature. They tend to become more conservative and cautious over time.
Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
The second video also shows Purdy taking a bunch of shots. You're making me think you only watched the first two minutes.
Brock's IAY was near identical to Jimmy's this past yr. Not sure what everyone is debating? Does he push the ball downfield? Overall not really…never did in college either. It's still a small sample size, so we will see how it goes this yr.
I think his draft overview was right on par…
"Four-year starter who was never able to improve upon a stellar sophomore campaign. Purdy is a burly pocket quarterback who needs a play-action based offense where he can rely on timing over release quickness and arm strength. He can be a confident passer when he finds his rhythm, but throwing is more of a chore than a talent thanks to a labored release. Certain areas of the field will be off limits as he moves up to take on NFL coverage talent. He's a scrappy runner but not dynamic enough to make up for his shortcomings as a passer."
IMO the offensive play calling with Jimmy to Brock doesn't change much at all. I think the one area that Brock helps this team more than Jimmy was the scrambling ability…I also think he's got to have a better internal clock and anticipation back there. I feel like that can be said for a TON of rookie QBs though.
His COMPLETED air yards per completion is not.
Jimmy: 4.8
Purdy: 5.9
Mahomes: 5.5
Lance: 7.6
Nor completed air yards per attempt:
Jimmy: 3.2
Purdy: 3.9
Mahomes: 3.7
.
.
EDIT: Oh yeah, this is the Trey Lance thread.
Lance: 7.6
Lance: 3.7
Lance throws the ball down the field deeper than any on this list per pass. But Purdy completes more air yards per pass attempt than any QB listed here.
[ Edited by 5_Golden_Rings on Jun 4, 2023 at 5:53 AM ]
Originally posted by NCommand:
LOL. What happened to, "I don't need Kurt Warner to think for me?"
Here's part II. Great stuff.
I don't need him to think for me. Haven't even watched the video. I watched the games, he took way more shots than Jimmy did. Stats that BayArea posted showed that.
You can just admit you were wrong. It's ok
Wait. If NCommand is saying the scheme didn't let the QB take shots, then the video he just posted disproves him. Are you sure that is what NCommand is arguing, or did he just not watch the whole video? Because in this video Warner shows that Purdy was still taking shots and chances in that game even after the large lead.
That was the other Kurt Warner video. Stay with the theme. Haha.
The second video also shows Purdy taking a bunch of shots. You're making me think you only watched the first two minutes.
You've completely missed the point. Both Warner and JTO have videos showing how the lack of outlets and the scheme put the QB at risk in this system. That's a Kyle-topic. But fans in here mocked both of those and said silly things like, "I don't need Warner to think for me." LOL
Now he's being referenced here because it matches their narrative.
I just saw the irony in that. All the videos were accurate, IMHO.
As to Brock, I'm not sure where the silly dink and dunk label came from (hence why I posted the second video as well). We never even had a RB outlet under Kyle until we traded for CMC. Is Brock more aggressive? Yes. But unless his name is Alex Smith, most rookies are by nature. They tend to become more conservative and cautious over time.
All they've shown is that on SOME plays there isn't a built in hot route.
I don't care about what they are arguing. Purdy completed more down the field air yards per pass than Jimmy. And more than Mahomes. That's a fact. Completed air yards per pass attempt:
Completed air yards per completion:
Jimmy: 4.8
Purdy: 5.9
Mahomes: 5.5
Completed air yards per attempt:
Jimmy: 3.2
Purdy: 3.9
Mahomes: 3.7
.
.
.
EDIT: Trey Lance.
[ Edited by 5_Golden_Rings on Jun 4, 2023 at 5:53 AM ]
Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
The second video also shows Purdy taking a bunch of shots. You're making me think you only watched the first two minutes.
Brock's IAY was near identical to Jimmy's this past yr. Not sure what everyone is debating? Does he push the ball downfield? Overall not really…never did in college either. It's still a small sample size, so we will see how it goes this yr.
I think his draft overview was right on par…
"Four-year starter who was never able to improve upon a stellar sophomore campaign. Purdy is a burly pocket quarterback who needs a play-action based offense where he can rely on timing over release quickness and arm strength. He can be a confident passer when he finds his rhythm, but throwing is more of a chore than a talent thanks to a labored release. Certain areas of the field will be off limits as he moves up to take on NFL coverage talent. He's a scrappy runner but not dynamic enough to make up for his shortcomings as a passer."
IMO the offensive play calling with Jimmy to Brock doesn't change much at all. I think the one area that Brock helps this team more than Jimmy was the scrambling ability…I also think he's got to have a better internal clock and anticipation back there. I feel like that can be said for a TON of rookie QBs though.
So you trust a draft analysis more than a hall of fame quarterback breaking down his most recent play? Why would you do that? Because it matches your opinion, or because you think a draft guru knows more than a hall of fame quarterback?
no I don't care what Warner says. Steve young thought Zach Wilson was gonna be a stud all the same….it's not like that "one" analysis was an abnormality. Go look across the board at his draft analysis from multiple people…better yet got watch some of his college games (which I bet you never have).
What from that overview is wrong about Brock? Explain without YOU being influenced with YOUR bias takes. I bet you can't.
Originally posted by Chance:
Of course there's room for improvement. There's a difference between recognizing room for improvement and using a game he didn't have an arm as evidence of something he was lacking in putting up points for the offense. The guy had arguably the best first 8 games a rookie QB has ever had. It's okay to acknowledge how incredible that is without carving his future into stone.
I put the eagles game somewhat in jest there since the idea of "we scored X amount per game last year" so we somehow can't improve is silly.
But even if we concentrate on the sample size of Brock in that game before the injury the one drive led to a turnover and there was a big lesson learned on that particular throw on where Brock can improve moving forward.
So yes we have room for improvement. Why settle for 33 points per game when we can shoot for more? Especially when we have no idea how a team with a good amount of changes will show up this year vs last?
I happen to think Brock is a better player than Jimmy and think we'll see the same guy or better once he's healthy but we don't have to look far to a recent example of a QB looking amazing then falling off next season and beyond.
When Jimmy came in in 2017 we averaged a bunch of points per game with him. I believe if those averages were extrapolated for a full season we'd be the top offense in the league. We were all excited to see what he could do with a whole offseason and better talent around him.
We know the result was far from what we expected. Good news with Brock is we don't have to pay him right away so we can see if he keeps up his play or if he falls off somehow.
But either way pointing to how we did last year and acting like there is nothing worth improving is very stupid.
Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
His COMPLETED air yards per completion is not.
Jimmy: 4.8
Purdy: 5.9
Mahomes: 5.5
Lance: 7.6
Nor completed air yards per attempt:
Jimmy: 3.2
Purdy: 3.9
Mahomes: 3.7
.
.
EDIT: Oh yeah, this is the Trey Lance thread.
Lance: 7.6
Lance: 3.7
Lance throws the ball down the field deeper than any on this list per pass. But Purdy completes more air yards per pass attempt than any QB listed here.
Lance completes at 7.6, that's certainly higher than Brock's 5.9 so this being this Trey's thread lets at least give him his due. Especially when the bulk of his completions came in a rain game.
The second video also shows Purdy taking a bunch of shots. You're making me think you only watched the first two minutes.
Brock's IAY was near identical to Jimmy's this past yr. Not sure what everyone is debating? Does he push the ball downfield? Overall not really…never did in college either. It's still a small sample size, so we will see how it goes this yr.
I think his draft overview was right on par…
"Four-year starter who was never able to improve upon a stellar sophomore campaign. Purdy is a burly pocket quarterback who needs a play-action based offense where he can rely on timing over release quickness and arm strength. He can be a confident passer when he finds his rhythm, but throwing is more of a chore than a talent thanks to a labored release. Certain areas of the field will be off limits as he moves up to take on NFL coverage talent. He's a scrappy runner but not dynamic enough to make up for his shortcomings as a passer."
IMO the offensive play calling with Jimmy to Brock doesn't change much at all. I think the one area that Brock helps this team more than Jimmy was the scrambling ability…I also think he's got to have a better internal clock and anticipation back there. I feel like that can be said for a TON of rookie QBs though.
Are you going on record as saying g you think Brock is not better than Himmy Gatropolo? That seems to be the takeaway here and you have made this point in dozens of posts.
I think the notion that throwing is a chore or that he has more shortcomings as a passer than most top 10 starters. If someone made that assessment of his rookie year they would be mocked.
Originally posted by Chance:
Of course there's room for improvement. There's a difference between recognizing room for improvement and using a game he didn't have an arm as evidence of something he was lacking in putting up points for the offense. The guy had arguably the best first 8 games a rookie QB has ever had. It's okay to acknowledge how incredible that is without carving his future into stone.
I put the eagles game somewhat in jest there since the idea of "we scored X amount per game last year" so we somehow can't improve is silly.
But even if we concentrate on the sample size of Brock in that game before the injury the one drive led to a turnover and there was a big lesson learned on that particular throw on where Brock can improve moving forward.
So yes we have room for improvement. Why settle for 33 points per game when we can shoot for more? Especially when we have no idea how a team with a good amount of changes will show up this year vs last?
I happen to think Brock is a better player than Jimmy and think we'll see the same guy or better once he's healthy but we don't have to look far to a recent example of a QB looking amazing then falling off next season and beyond.
When Jimmy came in in 2017 we averaged a bunch of points per game with him. I believe if those averages were extrapolated for a full season we'd be the top offense in the league. We were all excited to see what he could do with a whole offseason and better talent around him.
We know the result was far from what we expected. Good news with Brock is we don't have to pay him right away so we can see if he keeps up his play or if he falls off somehow.
But either way pointing to how we did last year and acting like there is nothing worth improving is very stupid.
I guess I just don't see where people are saying saying there's no room for improvement. However, I do see guys going out of their way to point out every flaw or equating him to average QBs. It's crazy to me that a guy who comes out of the gate playing like a top five QB he draws comparisons to Jimmy or Heinecke or Keenum. Like, we all know average QBs can have great streaks. But we've only seen Brock play like one of the best QBs on the league when he's been in the field. Acknowledging that fact does not mean the expectation is for that play to continue without a hitch, nor does it mean that there isn't room for improvement. It just means that the optimism that we might have a Joe Burrow on our hands and not a Jimmy G, is not only warranted, but probably more likely.
Originally posted by Chance:
Of course there's room for improvement. There's a difference between recognizing room for improvement and using a game he didn't have an arm as evidence of something he was lacking in putting up points for the offense. The guy had arguably the best first 8 games a rookie QB has ever had. It's okay to acknowledge how incredible that is without carving his future into stone.
I put the eagles game somewhat in jest there since the idea of "we scored X amount per game last year" so we somehow can't improve is silly.
But even if we concentrate on the sample size of Brock in that game before the injury the one drive led to a turnover and there was a big lesson learned on that particular throw on where Brock can improve moving forward.
So yes we have room for improvement. Why settle for 33 points per game when we can shoot for more? Especially when we have no idea how a team with a good amount of changes will show up this year vs last?
I happen to think Brock is a better player than Jimmy and think we'll see the same guy or better once he's healthy but we don't have to look far to a recent example of a QB looking amazing then falling off next season and beyond.
When Jimmy came in in 2017 we averaged a bunch of points per game with him. I believe if those averages were extrapolated for a full season we'd be the top offense in the league. We were all excited to see what he could do with a whole offseason and better talent around him.
We know the result was far from what we expected. Good news with Brock is we don't have to pay him right away so we can see if he keeps up his play or if he falls off somehow.
But either way pointing to how we did last year and acting like there is nothing worth improving is very stupid.
I guess I just don't see where people are saying saying there's no room for improvement. However, I do see guys going out of their way to point out every flaw or equating him to average QBs. It's crazy to me that a guy who comes out of the gate playing like a top five QB he draws comparisons to Jimmy or Heinecke or Keenum. Like, we all know average QBs can have great streaks. But we've only seen Brock play like one of the best QBs on the league when he's been in the field. Acknowledging that fact does not mean the expectation is for that play to continue without a hitch, nor does it mean that there isn't room for improvement. It just means that the optimism that we might have a Joe Burrow on our hands and not a Jimmy G, is not only warranted, but probably more likely.
I guarantee you if you asked Brock he would rattle off a bunch of things he can improve on. The play from the eagles being one example.
He was rolling to his left a bit too much, teams will close that off so he'll have to adjust to that.
Are these nitpick situations yes. But that's how you continue to stay ahead of the defense, any little holes you may have you gotta fix them and keep staying ahead.
i don't know who's equating him to average QBs, that's certainly not me. If anything I think people are just looking for more proof. 8 games is a small sample size. I'd be shocked if anyone still questions Brock if he comes back for a full season and plays the way he did last season. Maybe you'll find a couple but some people are never happy.
However you also can't honestly say we haven't seen other QBs come in and look great and then fizzle out. As I said we had our own version of that in Jimmy. Obviously that spooked some fans and they want to rule out that happening again.
Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
His COMPLETED air yards per completion is not.
Jimmy: 4.8
Purdy: 5.9
Mahomes: 5.5
Lance: 7.6
Nor completed air yards per attempt:
Jimmy: 3.2
Purdy: 3.9
Mahomes: 3.7
.
.
EDIT: Oh yeah, this is the Trey Lance thread.
Lance: 7.6
Lance: 3.7
Lance throws the ball down the field deeper than any on this list per pass. But Purdy completes more air yards per pass attempt than any QB listed here.
Lance completes at 7.6, that's certainly higher than Brock's 5.9 so this being this Trey's thread lets at least give him his due. Especially when the bulk of his completions came in a rain game.
No one is attacking Lance in my comment. I added him only because it's the Trey Lance thread and I don't want to get modded.
Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
The second video also shows Purdy taking a bunch of shots. You're making me think you only watched the first two minutes.
Brock's IAY was near identical to Jimmy's this past yr. Not sure what everyone is debating? Does he push the ball downfield? Overall not really…never did in college either. It's still a small sample size, so we will see how it goes this yr.
I think his draft overview was right on par…
"Four-year starter who was never able to improve upon a stellar sophomore campaign. Purdy is a burly pocket quarterback who needs a play-action based offense where he can rely on timing over release quickness and arm strength. He can be a confident passer when he finds his rhythm, but throwing is more of a chore than a talent thanks to a labored release. Certain areas of the field will be off limits as he moves up to take on NFL coverage talent. He's a scrappy runner but not dynamic enough to make up for his shortcomings as a passer."
IMO the offensive play calling with Jimmy to Brock doesn't change much at all. I think the one area that Brock helps this team more than Jimmy was the scrambling ability…I also think he's got to have a better internal clock and anticipation back there. I feel like that can be said for a TON of rookie QBs though.
So you trust a draft analysis more than a hall of fame quarterback breaking down his most recent play? Why would you do that? Because it matches your opinion, or because you think a draft guru knows more than a hall of fame quarterback?
no I don't care what Warner says. Steve young thought Zach Wilson was gonna be a stud all the same….it's not like that "one" analysis was an abnormality. Go look across the board at his draft analysis from multiple people…better yet got watch some of his college games (which I bet you never have).
What from that overview is wrong about Brock? Explain without YOU being influenced with YOUR bias takes. I bet you can't.
I have seen most of his college games, because not only do we get Iowa State games here in Memphis, but also because I went and watched every game I could find on YouTube once we drafted him. If you think he is the same exact player he was in college, you are ignoring the extra five mph he added to his velocity post college with the help of his trainer, and his throwing doesnt appear to be a "chore" nor his release "labored". Brian Griese doesn't seem to think Purdy has a limited arm, and told Krueger that he didn't know where that nonsense was coming from when asked as well. All a qb needs is an adequate arm, and Purdy has that. He has hit multiple throws over 20 yards in the air, and the td Kittle "stole" against the Commanders was 40-45 yards in the air. He also was the highest rated qb in the league throwing outside the numbers. Trey has a steep hill to climb to get the starting job.
Originally posted by NCommand:
LOL. What happened to, "I don't need Kurt Warner to think for me?"
Here's part II. Great stuff.
I don't need him to think for me. Haven't even watched the video. I watched the games, he took way more shots than Jimmy did. Stats that BayArea posted showed that.
You can just admit you were wrong. It's ok
Wait. If NCommand is saying the scheme didn't let the QB take shots, then the video he just posted disproves him. Are you sure that is what NCommand is arguing, or did he just not watch the whole video? Because in this video Warner shows that Purdy was still taking shots and chances in that game even after the large lead.
That was the other Kurt Warner video. Stay with the theme. Haha.
The second video also shows Purdy taking a bunch of shots. You're making me think you only watched the first two minutes.
You've completely missed the point. Both Warner and JTO have videos showing how the lack of outlets and the scheme put the QB at risk in this system. That's a Kyle-topic. But fans in here mocked both of those and said silly things like, "I don't need Warner to think for me." LOL
Now he's being referenced here because it matches their narrative.
I just saw the irony in that. All the videos were accurate, IMHO.
As to Brock, I'm not sure where the silly dink and dunk label came from (hence why I posted the second video as well). We never even had a RB outlet under Kyle until we traded for CMC. Is Brock more aggressive? Yes. But unless his name is Alex Smith, most rookies are by nature. They tend to become more conservative and cautious over time.
All they've shown is that on SOME plays there isn't a built in hot route.
I don't care about what they are arguing. Purdy completed more down the field air yards per pass than Jimmy. And more than Mahomes. That's a fact. Completed air yards per pass attempt:
Completed air yards per completion:
Jimmy: 4.8
Purdy: 5.9
Mahomes: 5.5
Completed air yards per attempt:
Jimmy: 3.2
Purdy: 3.9
Mahomes: 3.7
.
.
.
EDIT: Trey Lance.
That and the time it takes to execute some of those plays takes more time (with an OL built for run blocking and not pass protection). It also stresses the rest of the unit pass protection like TE's, FB's and RB's esp. when a defense knows not to bite on PA. In addition, if you stuff the run like the Rams, Dallas, etc., you kill Kyle's offense and again, put the QB at risk because the PP isn't built to hold in predictable PP scenarios and has a lower standard than RB. Hence, scheme is a very real reason for risk in the equation of QB health here...the worst in the league by a country mile. It's not the only reason but A reason.
As to Brock, I never agreed with the assertion Brock was a dink and dunk QB. But almost all rookies start out like this and then become more conservative over time, hence why most have super high INT to TD ratios. It's just something to watch for. Nothing more. And certainly nothing definitive either way.
As to Trey's air yards, all that says is he's got a low volume of throws but has a bomb in there somewhere which skews an average stat and that is why mobile QB's are always at the top of those lists. They also are at the high end of TTT naturally too for this reason.
Originally posted by genus49:
Brock played way better than Jimmy imo and this was the best Jimmy we've seen since 2017.
Brock as a rookie made plays we've rarely seen Jimmy make whether moving around better to avoid sacks or actually getting rid of the ball(couple in spectacular fashion) and like I said before the biggest thing to me why Brock isn't afraid of taking shots was the Seahawks game when he took the shot to Aiyuk who was singled up vs taking Deebo on the open crosser for shorter gain. Jimmy takes that crosser 100/100 times.
Now having said all that we have to see more from Brock. Not only how he looks after the serious injury but to see if he can stay ahead of some of his tendencies that other teams will look to capitalize on.
Honestly it wouldn't shock me if other teams try to replicate what Philly did and take their chances not reacting to PA and just go and attack. Jimmy was never the same in the pocket after the ACL. Can Brock be the guy we saw last year? If so then yes it's going to be hard for Trey to see the field here.
That doesn't mean Trey won't be as good or even a better QB once he gets time to develop but if Brock is showing the team he can execute at the high level we saw last season then the team will have to roll with him. Trey may end up finding his spot with another team and perhaps once the 49ers lose some talent around Brock after paying him maybe they go on to regret not holding onto Trey but we'll see.
To me I know how much impact CMC had on this offense. I want to see all the QBs get to play in this offense with him and the other weapons we have. We have to get this QB decision right. Shouldn't be handing anyone the job at this point.
I hope Trey brings it and his new work with mechanics shows big results. I hope Brock is back healthy and picking up where he left off and I even hope Darnold looks like the guy he was expected to be when the jets drafted him.
I just want a top tier QB to help us win the whole damn thing!
This right there. With CMC and Lance in the lineup, our run game would be an absolute nightmare for opposing defenses. That will obviously result in some posters here saying Kyle doesn't trust Trey to throw, but we deserve a juggernaut offense to pair with this D.
How much more juggernaut do you need than over 33 points per game? Our offense is consistently one of the top in the game.
Right?!? Im guessing he thinks with Lance it could be 34+ pts/gm. So much pressure some are heaping on to a Lance led offense.
Its not about that.
It's about which QB will be most difficult to contain during the playoffs against the best teams/defenses.
Brock was really good vs Dallas and made few mistakes - but Dallas certainly contained him as we put up only 19 points. If we lose that game 20-19 the whole perspective is different all of the sudden and the lack of points put up becomes a major issue.
Which is why the Philly game was going to be such an important data point- which we were robbed of sadly.
So it's not about points per game overall and which qb is least likely for a top defense to be able to contain when it matters most. I think Trey will ultimately be harder to contain by top Ds in the playoffs than Brock will be. Certainly this is speculation and a projection based off the physical tools Trey has at his disposal that Brock does not.
I def do not count the Philly game at all against Brock. He played one series and was out.
Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
All they've shown is that on SOME plays there isn't a built in hot route.
I don't care about what they are arguing. Purdy completed more down the field air yards per pass than Jimmy. And more than Mahomes. That's a fact. Completed air yards per pass attempt:
Completed air yards per completion:
Jimmy: 4.8
Purdy: 5.9
Mahomes: 5.5
Completed air yards per attempt:
Jimmy: 3.2
Purdy: 3.9
Mahomes: 3.7
.
.
.
EDIT: Trey Lance.
These stats mean nothing when you take into account how a team defends Mahomes vs our QBs. The coverages Mahomes sees is VASTLY different than what we see. Team are begging our guys to throw the ball downfield.
