Dallas Cowboys QB Trey Lance Thread

Originally posted by NCommand:
That and the time it takes to execute some of those plays takes more time (with an OL built for run blocking and not pass protection). It also stresses the rest of the unit pass protection like TE's, FB's and RB's esp. when a defense knows not to bite on PA. In addition, if you stuff the run like the Rams, Dallas, etc., you kill Kyle's offense and again, put the QB at risk because the PP isn't built to hold in predictable PP scenarios and has a lower standard than RB. Hence, scheme is a very real reason for risk in the equation of QB health here...the worst in the league by a country mile. It's not the only reason but A reason.

As to Brock, I never agreed with the assertion Brock was a dink and dunk QB. But almost all rookies start out like this and then become more conservative over time, hence why most have super high INT to TD ratios. It's just something to watch for. Nothing more. And certainly nothing definitive either way.

As to Trey's air yards, all that says is he's got a low volume of throws but has a bomb in there somewhere which skews an average stat and that is why mobile QB's are always at the top of those lists. They also are at the high end of TTT naturally too for this reason.

When your passing game is based around play-action and forcing teams to have to play up in the box to defend the run…they SHOULD be pushing the ball downfield. So I disagree with what you're saying overall there.

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
How much more juggernaut do you need than over 33 points per game? Our offense is consistently one of the top in the game.

Scored 19 vs Dallas and 7 vs Philly.

Can still improve.

lol

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:
I'll drop this here.

For comparison:

Per PFF, Mahomes had 70 attempts of 20+ yards on 748 total attempts last year (9.4%).

Brock Purdy had 27 attempts of 20+ yards on 233 total attempts last year (11.6%)

Both had 4 touchdowns on throws of 20+ yards in 2022. https://t.co/Vd7l6R8xDM

— Jack Hammer (@JackHammer_NFL) June 1, 2023

Then Jack hammer (no way that's his real name) gets called out for this because defenses play Mahomes vastly different then our QB. Defenses rolling out C2 vs Mahomes to take away anything deep, meanwhile they're daring our QBs to throw anything past 20 yards.

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by TheWooLick:
What is the average rate of Almost Interceptions, what is the elite rate and what is Brock's rate?

Best I could do.

"Brock Purdy has 4 turnover-worthy plays, per PFF. If he had enough dropbacks to qualify for the statistical charts, Purdy's 4.5% turnover-worthy play rate would rank fourth-worst in the NFL, behind only Zach Wilson, Justin Fields, and Taylor Heinicke."https://t.co/tsIZrMXcD3

— Rob "Stats" Guerrera (@StatsOnFire) December 21, 2022

So looks like 1st 2 1/2 games he was near the bottom.

The next 4 games he would have been top of the league

WHAT PURDY DOES WELLRookie quarterbacks are often susceptible to careless play as they adjust to the NFL, but only 3.1% of Purdy's pass attempts were deemed turnover-worthy between Week 13 and the end of the regular season, which ranked 15th out of 30 qualifying quarterbacks. It's an average number, but an impressive one for a first-year signal-caller. If we just look at his past four games — including the wild-card round win over the Seattle Seahawks — his turnover-worthy pass rate drops to just 1.6%, which would have been the best rate in the entire league during the 2022 regular season.

Ao it seems he got better and didn't get "figured out" like some say.

Overall he would have been middle of the pack if he qualified.

Apparently they only count "catchable" TWP passes not off target passes, which is weird and makes no sense. Also Brock was ranked 32nd in big time throw % as well.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by TheWooLick:
What is the average rate of Almost Interceptions, what is the elite rate and what is Brock's rate?

Best I could do.

"Brock Purdy has 4 turnover-worthy plays, per PFF. If he had enough dropbacks to qualify for the statistical charts, Purdy's 4.5% turnover-worthy play rate would rank fourth-worst in the NFL, behind only Zach Wilson, Justin Fields, and Taylor Heinicke."https://t.co/tsIZrMXcD3

— Rob "Stats" Guerrera (@StatsOnFire) December 21, 2022

So looks like 1st 2 1/2 games he was near the bottom.

The next 4 games he would have been top of the league

WHAT PURDY DOES WELLRookie quarterbacks are often susceptible to careless play as they adjust to the NFL, but only 3.1% of Purdy's pass attempts were deemed turnover-worthy between Week 13 and the end of the regular season, which ranked 15th out of 30 qualifying quarterbacks. It's an average number, but an impressive one for a first-year signal-caller. If we just look at his past four games — including the wild-card round win over the Seattle Seahawks — his turnover-worthy pass rate drops to just 1.6%, which would have been the best rate in the entire league during the 2022 regular season.

Ao it seems he got better and didn't get "figured out" like some say.

Overall he would have been middle of the pack if he qualified.

Apparently they only count "catchable" TWP passes not off target passes, which is weird and makes no sense. Also Brock was ranked 32nd in big time throw % as well.

Big time throw %. Sounds made up.

Who decides that its a" big time ,throw"

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by TheWooLick:
What is the average rate of Almost Interceptions, what is the elite rate and what is Brock's rate?

Best I could do.

"Brock Purdy has 4 turnover-worthy plays, per PFF. If he had enough dropbacks to qualify for the statistical charts, Purdy's 4.5% turnover-worthy play rate would rank fourth-worst in the NFL, behind only Zach Wilson, Justin Fields, and Taylor Heinicke."https://t.co/tsIZrMXcD3

— Rob "Stats" Guerrera (@StatsOnFire) December 21, 2022

So looks like 1st 2 1/2 games he was near the bottom.

The next 4 games he would have been top of the league

WHAT PURDY DOES WELLRookie quarterbacks are often susceptible to careless play as they adjust to the NFL, but only 3.1% of Purdy's pass attempts were deemed turnover-worthy between Week 13 and the end of the regular season, which ranked 15th out of 30 qualifying quarterbacks. It's an average number, but an impressive one for a first-year signal-caller. If we just look at his past four games — including the wild-card round win over the Seattle Seahawks — his turnover-worthy pass rate drops to just 1.6%, which would have been the best rate in the entire league during the 2022 regular season.

Ao it seems he got better and didn't get "figured out" like some say.

Overall he would have been middle of the pack if he qualified.

Apparently they only count "catchable" TWP passes not off target passes, which is weird and makes no sense. Also Brock was ranked 32nd in big time throw % as well.

Off-target? Lol. Stop the press folks, our QB missed some throws.

Originally posted by TD49ers:

Big time throw %. Sounds made up.

Who decides that its a" big time ,throw"

'Money Throw' > A pass requiring exceptional skill or athleticism as well as critical throws executed in clutch moments.

Originally posted by Chance:
Off-target? Lol. Stop the press folks, our QB missed some throws.

That's great, now can we say that about Trey? After all, this is his thread.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:
That and the time it takes to execute some of those plays takes more time (with an OL built for run blocking and not pass protection). It also stresses the rest of the unit pass protection like TE's, FB's and RB's esp. when a defense knows not to bite on PA. In addition, if you stuff the run like the Rams, Dallas, etc., you kill Kyle's offense and again, put the QB at risk because the PP isn't built to hold in predictable PP scenarios and has a lower standard than RB. Hence, scheme is a very real reason for risk in the equation of QB health here...the worst in the league by a country mile. It's not the only reason but A reason.

As to Brock, I never agreed with the assertion Brock was a dink and dunk QB. But almost all rookies start out like this and then become more conservative over time, hence why most have super high INT to TD ratios. It's just something to watch for. Nothing more. And certainly nothing definitive either way.

As to Trey's air yards, all that says is he's got a low volume of throws but has a bomb in there somewhere which skews an average stat and that is why mobile QB's are always at the top of those lists. They also are at the high end of TTT naturally too for this reason.

When your passing game is based around play-action and forcing teams to have to play up in the box to defend the run…they SHOULD be pushing the ball downfield. So I disagree with what you're saying overall there.

I'm not sure what this means in response to my post but overall, I agree with your premise.

But it's still a WCO (inverse). In short the PA simply sets up a couple calculated (higher %) deep shots per game through scheme. The other 95% of the game will be played exactly as it's always been with JG/BP per the game plan as evidenced by their identical spray charts.

It's great Brock is trying for the big play first and taking more shots and executing them. Like a long driver, start with that mentality. Eventually these rookies learn to be more calculated and they regress back to the mean.

Originally posted by NCommand:
I'm not sure what this means in response to my post but overall, I agree with your premise.

But it's still a WCO (inverse). In short the PA simply sets up a couple calculated (higher %) deep shots per game through scheme. The other 95% of the game will be played exactly as it's always been with JG/BP per the game plan as evidenced by their identical spray charts.

It's great Brock is trying for the big play first and taking more shots and executing them. Like a long driver, start with that mentality. Eventually these rookies learn to be more calculated and they regress back to the mean.

Except that those big plays that are taken then open up the run game as evidenced by the 40 yard difference once Brock became the starter. The exact point that was being argued on why the run WAS being stuffed.

Brock made teams defend the whole field.

This is the Trey Lance thread but the entire page is all about Brock. Maybe this is why the arguments and comments get so confusing.

Originally posted by TD49ers:

Big time throw %. Sounds made up.

Who decides that its a" big time ,throw"

Go look it up. I mean if we're using PFF numbers that's one for QBs.

Originally posted by NCommand:
I'm not sure what this means in response to my post but overall, I agree with your premise.

But it's still a WCO (inverse). In short the PA simply sets up a couple calculated (higher %) deep shots per game through scheme. The other 95% of the game will be played exactly as it's always been with JG/BP per the game plan as evidenced by their identical spray charts.

It's great Brock is trying for the big play first and taking more shots and executing them. Like a long driver, start with that mentality. Eventually these rookies learn to be more calculated and they regress back to the mean.

We use PA or some form of it on a ton of our passes. Especially with Brock. It's not just a bunch of quick 3 step drops. It's also not a Martz scheme where it's long developing routes that require long PP for the QB (who's supposed to stay in the pocket exclusively).

my point is blaming PP for not pushing the ball downfield or those plays not being dialed up because Kyle doesn't want explosives downfield is not true. This scheme is setup to do just that. We simply haven't had that QB that can do it.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Except that those big plays that are taken then open up the run game as evidenced by the 40 yard difference once Brock became the starter. The exact point that was being argued on why the run WAS being stuffed.

Brock made teams defend the whole field.

Did he though? Did teams defend him any differently than Jimmy? IMO CMC transformed the offense more than Brock did.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
This is the Trey Lance thread but the entire page is all about Brock. Maybe this is why the arguments and comments get so confusing.

I have been saying this for over 10 years (but has always been shut down by admins), but we need a QB thread, not specific threads for every QB. We havent had a true franchise QB since Steve Young. So given the state of the QB position for a long time, I really dont see why we couldnt throw QB discussion in one thread. It would help admins/mods out by not having to police which discussion belongs in each thread.

I dont see a negative to this idea, but I dont run this board so if mods/admins want them separate, I guess thats fine.