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Originally posted by tommyncal:
Originally posted by TD49ers:
Big time throw %. Sounds made up.
Who decides that its a" big time ,throw"
'Money Throw' > A pass requiring exceptional skill or athleticism as well as critical throws executed in clutch moments.
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by TD49ers:
Big time throw %. Sounds made up.
Who decides that its a" big time ,throw"
Go look it up. I mean if we're using PFF numbers that's one for QBs.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Originally posted by NCommand:
LOL. What happened to, "I don't need Kurt Warner to think for me?"
Here's part II. Great stuff.
I don't need him to think for me. Haven't even watched the video. I watched the games, he took way more shots than Jimmy did. Stats that BayArea posted showed that.
You can just admit you were wrong. It's ok
Wait. If NCommand is saying the scheme didn't let the QB take shots, then the video he just posted disproves him. Are you sure that is what NCommand is arguing, or did he just not watch the whole video? Because in this video Warner shows that Purdy was still taking shots and chances in that game even after the large lead.
That was the other Kurt Warner video. Stay with the theme. Haha.
The second video also shows Purdy taking a bunch of shots. You're making me think you only watched the first two minutes.
You've completely missed the point. Both Warner and JTO have videos showing how the lack of outlets and the scheme put the QB at risk in this system. That's a Kyle-topic. But fans in here mocked both of those and said silly things like, "I don't need Warner to think for me." LOL
Now he's being referenced here because it matches their narrative.
I just saw the irony in that. All the videos were accurate, IMHO.
As to Brock, I'm not sure where the silly dink and dunk label came from (hence why I posted the second video as well). We never even had a RB outlet under Kyle until we traded for CMC. Is Brock more aggressive? Yes. But unless his name is Alex Smith, most rookies are by nature. They tend to become more conservative and cautious over time.
All they've shown is that on SOME plays there isn't a built in hot route.
I don't care about what they are arguing. Purdy completed more down the field air yards per pass than Jimmy. And more than Mahomes. That's a fact. Completed air yards per pass attempt:
Completed air yards per completion:
Jimmy: 4.8
Purdy: 5.9
Mahomes: 5.5
Completed air yards per attempt:
Jimmy: 3.2
Purdy: 3.9
Mahomes: 3.7
.
.
.
EDIT: Trey Lance.
That and the time it takes to execute some of those plays takes more time (with an OL built for run blocking and not pass protection). It also stresses the rest of the unit pass protection like TE's, FB's and RB's esp. when a defense knows not to bite on PA. In addition, if you stuff the run like the Rams, Dallas, etc., you kill Kyle's offense and again, put the QB at risk because the PP isn't built to hold in predictable PP scenarios and has a lower standard than RB. Hence, scheme is a very real reason for risk in the equation of QB health here...the worst in the league by a country mile. It's not the only reason but A reason.
As to Brock, I never agreed with the assertion Brock was a dink and dunk QB. But almost all rookies start out like this and then become more conservative over time, hence why most have super high INT to TD ratios. It's just something to watch for. Nothing more. And certainly nothing definitive either way.
As to Trey's air yards, all that says is he's got a low volume of throws but has a bomb in there somewhere which skews an average stat and that is why mobile QB's are always at the top of those lists. They also are at the high end of TTT naturally too for this reason.
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
All they've shown is that on SOME plays there isn't a built in hot route.
I don't care about what they are arguing. Purdy completed more down the field air yards per pass than Jimmy. And more than Mahomes. That's a fact. Completed air yards per pass attempt:
Completed air yards per completion:
Jimmy: 4.8
Purdy: 5.9
Mahomes: 5.5
Completed air yards per attempt:
Jimmy: 3.2
Purdy: 3.9
Mahomes: 3.7
.
.
.
EDIT: Trey Lance.
These stats mean nothing when you take into account how a team defends Mahomes vs our QBs. The coverages Mahomes sees is VASTLY different than what we see. Team are begging our guys to throw the ball downfield.
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Except that those big plays that are taken then open up the run game as evidenced by the 40 yard difference once Brock became the starter. The exact point that was being argued on why the run WAS being stuffed.
Brock made teams defend the whole field.
Did he though? Did teams defend him any differently than Jimmy? IMO CMC transformed the offense more than Brock did.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Except that those big plays that are taken then open up the run game as evidenced by the 40 yard difference once Brock became the starter. The exact point that was being argued on why the run WAS being stuffed.
Brock made teams defend the whole field.
Did he though? Did teams defend him any differently than Jimmy? IMO CMC transformed the offense more than Brock did.
You both kind of covered my point.
Taking Kyle's (set up via schemed up) 2-3 deep shots a game isn't going to affect much of anything. It certainly is unlikely to help the run game. It doesn't even guarantee more points on the board.
Hence why Kyle gets annoyed at the topic...why risk the big bomb when you can achieve the same thing on the end while wearing down your opponent, keeping their offense on the sidelines, and control the clock.
This is who Kyle is as an actual head coach and that's unlikely to change after this much time. I'd just focus more in the other 95% of the offense.
Kyle prefers the mini-explosive plays.
Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Originally posted by NCommand:
LOL. What happened to, "I don't need Kurt Warner to think for me?"
Here's part II. Great stuff.
I don't need him to think for me. Haven't even watched the video. I watched the games, he took way more shots than Jimmy did. Stats that BayArea posted showed that.
You can just admit you were wrong. It's ok
Wait. If NCommand is saying the scheme didn't let the QB take shots, then the video he just posted disproves him. Are you sure that is what NCommand is arguing, or did he just not watch the whole video? Because in this video Warner shows that Purdy was still taking shots and chances in that game even after the large lead.
That was the other Kurt Warner video. Stay with the theme. Haha.
The second video also shows Purdy taking a bunch of shots. You're making me think you only watched the first two minutes.
You've completely missed the point. Both Warner and JTO have videos showing how the lack of outlets and the scheme put the QB at risk in this system. That's a Kyle-topic. But fans in here mocked both of those and said silly things like, "I don't need Warner to think for me." LOL
Now he's being referenced here because it matches their narrative.
I just saw the irony in that. All the videos were accurate, IMHO.
As to Brock, I'm not sure where the silly dink and dunk label came from (hence why I posted the second video as well). We never even had a RB outlet under Kyle until we traded for CMC. Is Brock more aggressive? Yes. But unless his name is Alex Smith, most rookies are by nature. They tend to become more conservative and cautious over time.
All they've shown is that on SOME plays there isn't a built in hot route.
I don't care about what they are arguing. Purdy completed more down the field air yards per pass than Jimmy. And more than Mahomes. That's a fact. Completed air yards per pass attempt:
Completed air yards per completion:
Jimmy: 4.8
Purdy: 5.9
Mahomes: 5.5
Completed air yards per attempt:
Jimmy: 3.2
Purdy: 3.9
Mahomes: 3.7
.
.
.
EDIT: Trey Lance.
That and the time it takes to execute some of those plays takes more time (with an OL built for run blocking and not pass protection). It also stresses the rest of the unit pass protection like TE's, FB's and RB's esp. when a defense knows not to bite on PA. In addition, if you stuff the run like the Rams, Dallas, etc., you kill Kyle's offense and again, put the QB at risk because the PP isn't built to hold in predictable PP scenarios and has a lower standard than RB. Hence, scheme is a very real reason for risk in the equation of QB health here...the worst in the league by a country mile. It's not the only reason but A reason.
As to Brock, I never agreed with the assertion Brock was a dink and dunk QB. But almost all rookies start out like this and then become more conservative over time, hence why most have super high INT to TD ratios. It's just something to watch for. Nothing more. And certainly nothing definitive either way.
As to Trey's air yards, all that says is he's got a low volume of throws but has a bomb in there somewhere which skews an average stat and that is why mobile QB's are always at the top of those lists. They also are at the high end of TTT naturally too for this reason.
Lance definitely prefers the down the field throws. That's not even debatable. The first game he had playtime on on a boot to the right he had an open tight end underneath, the first read on that play, yet despite backpedaling and being chased, he threw the deep crosser.
Maybe it's because he doesn't trust himself short. Maybe it's because there is less timing required on deep crossing routes and many deeper throws (the windows are larger because the defense is more spread out). But regardless of why, Trey prefers throwing deeper and outside.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Originally posted by NCommand:
LOL. What happened to, "I don't need Kurt Warner to think for me?"
Here's part II. Great stuff.
I don't need him to think for me. Haven't even watched the video. I watched the games, he took way more shots than Jimmy did. Stats that BayArea posted showed that.
You can just admit you were wrong. It's ok
Wait. If NCommand is saying the scheme didn't let the QB take shots, then the video he just posted disproves him. Are you sure that is what NCommand is arguing, or did he just not watch the whole video? Because in this video Warner shows that Purdy was still taking shots and chances in that game even after the large lead.
That was the other Kurt Warner video. Stay with the theme. Haha.
The second video also shows Purdy taking a bunch of shots. You're making me think you only watched the first two minutes.
You've completely missed the point. Both Warner and JTO have videos showing how the lack of outlets and the scheme put the QB at risk in this system. That's a Kyle-topic. But fans in here mocked both of those and said silly things like, "I don't need Warner to think for me." LOL
Now he's being referenced here because it matches their narrative.
I just saw the irony in that. All the videos were accurate, IMHO.
As to Brock, I'm not sure where the silly dink and dunk label came from (hence why I posted the second video as well). We never even had a RB outlet under Kyle until we traded for CMC. Is Brock more aggressive? Yes. But unless his name is Alex Smith, most rookies are by nature. They tend to become more conservative and cautious over time.
All they've shown is that on SOME plays there isn't a built in hot route.
I don't care about what they are arguing. Purdy completed more down the field air yards per pass than Jimmy. And more than Mahomes. That's a fact. Completed air yards per pass attempt:
Completed air yards per completion:
Jimmy: 4.8
Purdy: 5.9
Mahomes: 5.5
Completed air yards per attempt:
Jimmy: 3.2
Purdy: 3.9
Mahomes: 3.7
.
.
.
EDIT: Trey Lance.
That and the time it takes to execute some of those plays takes more time (with an OL built for run blocking and not pass protection). It also stresses the rest of the unit pass protection like TE's, FB's and RB's esp. when a defense knows not to bite on PA. In addition, if you stuff the run like the Rams, Dallas, etc., you kill Kyle's offense and again, put the QB at risk because the PP isn't built to hold in predictable PP scenarios and has a lower standard than RB. Hence, scheme is a very real reason for risk in the equation of QB health here...the worst in the league by a country mile. It's not the only reason but A reason.
As to Brock, I never agreed with the assertion Brock was a dink and dunk QB. But almost all rookies start out like this and then become more conservative over time, hence why most have super high INT to TD ratios. It's just something to watch for. Nothing more. And certainly nothing definitive either way.
As to Trey's air yards, all that says is he's got a low volume of throws but has a bomb in there somewhere which skews an average stat and that is why mobile QB's are always at the top of those lists. They also are at the high end of TTT naturally too for this reason.
Lance definitely prefers the down the field throws. That's not even debatable. The first game he had playtime on on a boot to the right he had an open tight end underneath, the first read on that play, yet despite backpedaling and being chased, he threw the deep crosser.
Maybe it's because he doesn't trust himself short. Maybe it's because there is less timing required on deep crossing routes and many deeper throws (the windows are larger because the defense is more spread out). But regardless of why, Trey prefers throwing deeper and outside.
I couldn't agree more. His style of play fits into that pattern of mobile QB's very well. His TTT and both air yards, IMHO, will always be up there with that group.
They, by nature, are going to buy as much time as possible and then air it out. Coaches will use that too (long PA, naked bootlegs, rolling pockets, etc.). Therefore the TTT will all increase and the shots will be deeper bumping up both average stats.
Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Except that those big plays that are taken then open up the run game as evidenced by the 40 yard difference once Brock became the starter. The exact point that was being argued on why the run WAS being stuffed.
Brock made teams defend the whole field.
Did he though? Did teams defend him any differently than Jimmy? IMO CMC transformed the offense more than Brock did.
You both kind of covered my point.
Taking Kyle's (set up via schemed up) 2-3 deep shots a game isn't going to affect much of anything. It certainly is unlikely to help the run game. It doesn't even guarantee more points on the board.
Hence why Kyle gets annoyed at the topic...why risk the big bomb when you can achieve the same thing on the end while wearing down your opponent, keeping their offense on the sidelines, and control the clock.
This is who Kyle is as an actual head coach and that's unlikely to change after this much time. I'd just focus more in the other 95% of the offense.
Kyle prefers the mini-explosive plays.
Kyle has said he prefers a QB who takes the open down field guy over the open check down. He does not prefer marching down the field slowly unless it's with the run, and that is to set up the bomb.
Why do you insist on this false belief? JIMMY GAROPPOLO is the reason the offense started resembling the Patriots offense. Kyle wants to attack. He did it in Atlanta. He did it in Washington. He did it in Cleveland. He did it his first year with the 49ers. He did it with Trey Lance. He also did it with Purdy. Not a drive goes by where there aren't deep concepts.
Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Kyle called the long boots with Brock too. One in particular comes to mind is the INT against the Raiders.
Originally posted by NCommand:Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:Kyle called the long boots with Brock too. One in particular comes to mind is the INT against the Raiders.
I believe Brock could run these too. I'm not sure if he can run a naked with him to the far right and have him throw 50 yards down field to the far left corner of the EZ but...
You might be able to sneak one or two of those with Jimmy (GB to Kittle) but it's not an actual or consistent threat where a DC might actually have to plan for it. It's a surprise shot. With Trey you could. Maybe Brock but I need to see more.
Originally posted by NCommand:
I disagree to a point. Nothing about Kyle's player acquisition (until Trey) has demonstrated anything but the opposite. All 3 cone, short area quick and RAC receivers, receiving backs, run blockers, etc.
That doesn't mean he doesn't want to set up shot plays esp. if he happens to have a deep shot talent but he's much more conservative and controlled with them.
In addition, IIRC, it was Maiocco who asked him about that and he was pretty annoyed and went into what I noted above.
I'm sure if he had Tyreek Hill, Julio Jones or Jerry Rice, he'd use that skill set more. His predecessor did want that. Here? I'm not seeing it in actions in the personnel he's brought in after 7 years. Do you?
Bill Walsh's great discovery was that decreasing air yards increased cmp %, 1st down conversion rate, yards per attempt, points per drive, and QB rating.
— Danny G (@DannyG_49) June 1, 2023
Spread the gospel my fellow WCO acolytes pic.twitter.com/WxXS14X0oe
— Allan Basso (@Endzone51) June 1, 2023
Decreasing air yards also increases YAC. Last year for every 1 yard reduction in intended air yards resulted in ~0.6 extra YAC. pic.twitter.com/rfOI10dgK4
— Sensible Moderate (@sensiblemoderat) June 1, 2023
— Allan Basso (@Endzone51) June 1, 2023
Originally posted by riverrunzthruit:
LOL still debating meaningless stats regarding TL our 3rd/4th string QB
Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:
Originally posted by NCommand:
I disagree to a point. Nothing about Kyle's player acquisition (until Trey) has demonstrated anything but the opposite. All 3 cone, short area quick and RAC receivers, receiving backs, run blockers, etc.
That doesn't mean he doesn't want to set up shot plays esp. if he happens to have a deep shot talent but he's much more conservative and controlled with them.
In addition, IIRC, it was Maiocco who asked him about that and he was pretty annoyed and went into what I noted above.
I'm sure if he had Tyreek Hill, Julio Jones or Jerry Rice, he'd use that skill set more. His predecessor did want that. Here? I'm not seeing it in actions in the personnel he's brought in after 7 years. Do you?
I get what your point. It does appear like Kyle acquire WR to get QB quick options. Which also helps out OL PP. especially now a days when pass rushing is relentless.
Also, reminds me of a conversation I seen on Twitter recently regarding WCO. I know Kyle has evolved from the bill Walsh early days, but I still believe he holds some of the same principles.
Bill Walsh's great discovery was that decreasing air yards increased cmp %, 1st down conversion rate, yards per attempt, points per drive, and QB rating.
— Danny G (@DannyG_49) June 1, 2023
Spread the gospel my fellow WCO acolytes pic.twitter.com/WxXS14X0oe
— Allan Basso (@Endzone51) June 1, 2023
Decreasing air yards also increases YAC. Last year for every 1 yard reduction in intended air yards resulted in ~0.6 extra YAC. pic.twitter.com/rfOI10dgK4
— Sensible Moderate (@sensiblemoderat) June 1, 2023
I thought I'd just throw in this funny video from Simms regarding his power throws lol
— Allan Basso (@Endzone51) June 1, 2023