Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Originally posted by NCommand:Regardless of this useless tangent, you do not need sub 4.4 speed to be a deep threat in the NFL. You don't even need sub 4.5 speed to be a deep threat. Jerry Rice AT BEST ran a 4.5 or 4.6, and supposedly was measured as a 4.7 guy. And he was DEFINITELY a deep threat. You can be a deep threat by winning at the line, or winning with route running (on posts, corners, double moves, etc).
Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Except that those big plays that are taken then open up the run game as evidenced by the 40 yard difference once Brock became the starter. The exact point that was being argued on why the run WAS being stuffed.
Brock made teams defend the whole field.
Did he though? Did teams defend him any differently than Jimmy? IMO CMC transformed the offense more than Brock did.
You both kind of covered my point.
Taking Kyle's (set up via schemed up) 2-3 deep shots a game isn't going to affect much of anything. It certainly is unlikely to help the run game. It doesn't even guarantee more points on the board.
Hence why Kyle gets annoyed at the topic...why risk the big bomb when you can achieve the same thing on the end while wearing down your opponent, keeping their offense on the sidelines, and control the clock.
This is who Kyle is as an actual head coach and that's unlikely to change after this much time. I'd just focus more in the other 95% of the offense.
Kyle prefers the mini-explosive plays.
Kyle has said he prefers a QB who takes the open down field guy over the open check down. He does not prefer marching down the field slowly unless it's with the run, and that is to set up the bomb.
Why do you insist on this false belief? JIMMY GAROPPOLO is the reason the offense started resembling the Patriots offense. Kyle wants to attack. He did it in Atlanta. He did it in Washington. He did it in Cleveland. He did it his first year with the 49ers. He did it with Trey Lance. He also did it with Purdy. Not a drive goes by where there aren't deep concepts.
I disagree to a point. Nothing about Kyle's player acquisition (until Trey) has demonstrated anything but the opposite. All 3 cone, short area quick and RAC receivers, receiving backs, run blockers, etc.
That doesn't mean he doesn't want to set up shot plays esp. if he happens to have a deep shot talent but he's much more conservative and controlled with them.
In addition, IIRC, it was Maiocco who asked him about that and he was pretty annoyed and went into what I noted above.
I'm sure if he had Tyreek Hill, Julio Jones or Jerry Rice, he'd use that skill set more. His predecessor did want that. Here? I'm not seeing it in actions in the personnel he's brought in after 7 years. Do you?
Talking about Kyle's draft habits has nothing to do with his play calls. It is manifestly obviously he calls many plays with deep shots built in. Nor does it change the fact that he literally said he likes QBs to not pass up the open deep play, qualifying it with if the QB goes short instead but it works that he won't complain.
Also why'd he draft Gray?
Kyle's plays literally have deep shots almost all the time. They attack all three levels. The claim that he wants to short pass up and down the field is MADE UP and based on nothing but lingering Jimmy Garoppolo apologetics.
Then who were our deep threats with Brock? CMC?
I agree speed isn't the determining factor in becoming a consistent deep threat. Maybe I define one differently but I define a deep threat as a player who consistently wins deep and makes those catches enough to give both a HC and QB confidence to draw those plays up more as primaries or just chuck it up there under duress knowing your guy will make a play.
Gray gives us that speed we lost with Goodwin which does help on in breaking routes and all 12 of our underneath receivers. In Goodwin's case, his speed did need to be respected despite rarely ever going to him deep also.
Most route trees have 'deeper' routes. But we don't have any guys who consistently run them and win timely. And everyone runs them from CMC to Juice to Kittle to Aiyuk to Deebo to Jennings. Hopefully Gray can join this year too.
[ Edited by NCommand on Jun 5, 2023 at 12:50 PM ]
