Dallas Cowboys QB Trey Lance Thread

Originally posted by genus49:
And i've said for a while and still stand by that, that Trey's issue running isn't speed or agility. I believe you can see a clear difference in how confidently he runs when doing a QB scramble vs a designed run.

I bring up the Seattle game where he came in for Jimmy in the 2nd half. Those were some of his best runs because most of them were off scramble plays vs the runs we saw in Arizona/Houston where most of them were designed runs. I think if he got more experience and got a handle on game speed the designed runs would look better as a result as well.

He'll never be a Justin Fields or Lamar Jackson but he absolutely can hurt teams if they don't account for his legs.

Agree with this. I think his main issue is under the confidence umbrella so to speak. Hesitation.

He can be a good runner in the designed run game as well as scrambling not just if/when he gets more comfortable, but when he becomes an effective passer and defenses can't just sit on the run game.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:

Originally posted by NCommand:
I disagree to a point. Nothing about Kyle's player acquisition (until Trey) has demonstrated anything but the opposite. All 3 cone, short area quick and RAC receivers, receiving backs, run blockers, etc.

That doesn't mean he doesn't want to set up shot plays esp. if he happens to have a deep shot talent but he's much more conservative and controlled with them.

In addition, IIRC, it was Maiocco who asked him about that and he was pretty annoyed and went into what I noted above.

I'm sure if he had Tyreek Hill, Julio Jones or Jerry Rice, he'd use that skill set more. His predecessor did want that. Here? I'm not seeing it in actions in the personnel he's brought in after 7 years. Do you?

I get what your point. It does appear like Kyle acquire WR to get QB quick options. Which also helps out OL PP. especially now a days when pass rushing is relentless.

Also, reminds me of a conversation I seen on Twitter recently regarding WCO. I know Kyle has evolved from the bill Walsh early days, but I still believe he holds some of the same principles.

Bill Walsh's great discovery was that decreasing air yards increased cmp %, 1st down conversion rate, yards per attempt, points per drive, and QB rating.

Spread the gospel my fellow WCO acolytes pic.twitter.com/WxXS14X0oe

— Danny G (@DannyG_49) June 1, 2023

pic.twitter.com/njhdV4AnKS

— Allan Basso (@Endzone51) June 1, 2023

Decreasing air yards also increases YAC. Last year for every 1 yard reduction in intended air yards resulted in ~0.6 extra YAC. pic.twitter.com/rfOI10dgK4

— Sensible Moderate (@sensiblemoderat) June 1, 2023

I thought I'd just throw in this funny video from Simms regarding his power throws lol

pic.twitter.com/RTGsZKPJjX

— Allan Basso (@Endzone51) June 1, 2023

"It's not the f**king West Coast Offense." - Kyle Shanahan.

LMAO. Except all the terminology, plays and philosophy, it sure isn't. It is inverse though in that it's still more run to set up the pass vs. Walsh who was more pass to set up the run.

I mean how often do we see posters bring up plays from Walsh years to show parallels to the plays being ran now.

Of course, no one truly runs a west coast offense like Bill did. By now, It's all just variations of it. But they do keep some of the principles.

Niners816 has his entire playbook. It's WCO. Sure he'll modify things and add things. But even the terminology is still WCO. But it's Kyle...so he probably wants it named after him because it's unique to him. Let's call it the West Cancun Offense and everyone is happy.

There are more or less only three terminology systems used widespread in the NFL: digit, Walsh, and Erhardt-Perkins. A terminology system is not an offensive scheme. When Mike Shanahan came to the 49ers, he changed his terminology to the WCO terminology, but kept most of the Bronco's/Raider's passing concepts (the only obvious change is a removal of shotgun because of Steve Young's preference), and kept the 49ers run offenes. Kyle cut his teeth on Jon Gruden's and Mike Shanahan's scheme. That is why Kyle's actual offense is really an amalgam of all the successful offensive concepts in NFL history. That's actually probably the real reason he said he doesn't run the West Coast Offense. Because he doesn't. He's taken elements from everything that works, and if there's anything that obviously lingers form previous offenses, it's Mike Shanahan's zone-run scheme.

Regardless, terminology does not determine what a scheme is. The West Coast Offense, the REAL West Coast Offense, utilizes balanced formations and short passes in place of the run to control the ball. Kyle's offense using unbalanced formations and the run and short passes to set up the DEEP pass. But every now and then you'll see an old Bill Walsh play ripped right from the 80s. Because Kyle doesn't run one offense. He runs them all, with, again, the only real exception is the zone-run scheme. But even that isn't gospel with him, as he'll throw in man-blocking and other key changes from time to time.

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Regarding those playbooks, some of those playbooks are available on the internet, or at least they used to be. Mike Holmgren's playbook (the ACTUAL WCO) is different from Kyle's. It's even different from Mike Shanahan's including terminology (for example, Mike Holmgren called a split back formation "Red" and Mike Shanahan called it "Split"; some where the same, such as "double wing")

That's perfectly fair. The dude is always evolving and has been an OC for 40 years. He doesn't have a Greg Roman hodge podge playbook. I just think the plays and terminology are grounded mostly in WCO foundation/principles.

But he can call it whatever he wants...or doesn't want.

Appreciate the discussion.

It's always a fun conversation. Here is some fun stuff:

1985 49ers:
https://www.footballxos.com/download/1985-san-francisco-49ers-west-coast-offense-bill-walsh-pdf/

2000 Seahawks:
https://www.footballxos.com/download/2000-seattle-seahawks-offense-pdf/

Notice that even 15 years later, for example, "Red" means split formation. In a Kyle's Falcon playbook I've had, "Red" was used for split, but for some other 2 back formations, instead of colors like Walsh and Holmgren, he just used the description of the formation. For example, instead of "Green" for I, Shanahan just used I-Right, Strong, Weak, etc.

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=1dQN43WO-xoyE0kWFE9ZwPZP4MrTDFUdQ

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But what I think is important here is that neither terminology nor playbooks define an offensive system. Mike Martz had the same terminology as the 1990s Cowboys, but the Rams were definitely running a different offense. Rather than I-form run to set up the deep pass that Norv Turner favored, this was a pass to set up the pass offense, with zone runs often from a single back set sprinkled in to finish games. You didn't see the same spread formations, motions, empty sets and third and long offense on first down with the Cowboys that you saw with the Rams.

Conversely, the 1990s Packers were definitely running the West Coast Offense. The major change they had was moving from a split back run game to an I-formation run game. But the 49ers also went to that with Steve Mariucci, so by the late 90s at least two teams were running the closest thing to a true WCO there had been since Bill Walsh.

But if you ask Steve Young, terminology, plays, even play-calling style wasn't what made the West Coast Offense. It was marrying the QB's footwork to the routes that really defined it. And I hate to say it, but that isn't really something you see today with so much of the passing game based on the shotgun.

https://a.espncdn.com/nfl/s/westcoast/defining.html

Originally posted by Steve Young:

The offense cannot be taught or run based solely on a playbook. If a coach has no history in the West Coast and wants to teach it based on a playbook, he wouldn't get it. Timing and choreography, not plays, are what make the West Coast offense.
[...]
Two weeks ago I visited the Patriots and met with quarterback Tom Brady. When I asked him about his drops and his reads, he said everything is about finding space, zone routes, man-zone reads, short drops and timing. Brady's footwork tells him when to throw the ball. So, while offensive coordinator Charlie Weis has no West Coast history or ties to Walsh and the 49ers system in his coaching background, the Patriots essentially are running the West Coast offense.

Great stuff.

I couldn't agree more about the marriage of the feet choreographed. The Young to Rice slant was indefensible because of the thousand reps practiced to precision.

You just don't see that anymore. You probably can't see that anymore because of the CBA and coaches would rather use their time on installs. As a result, QB's have to hire their own mechanics coaches independent of the offenses they play in.

No doubt, what you bolded is a foundational core to the WCO. There are countless BW videos out there on this which stressed the QB's footwork, WR routes and their choreographed timing link to a successful play.

Too bad Niners816 isn't in here anymore. He'd have a field day talking about this.

At some point, we'll need to start talking about Kyle and how his own predecessors have morphed his offense as well. Hell, Kyle himself can morph pretty significantly over the course of one off season.

That has changed so many things.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by krizay:
Out of curiosity I noticed you did every year of their career for their YAC but not for Broken tackles. Is it because it didn't fit your argument?

Trey's career attempts/ BT is 27 by far more than Jalen's 17 attempts/BT

Golden didn't get the memo that only negative stats can be posted

I explained it, and you seem to have not read it. Division by zero is impossible in the ring of real numbers.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
When we talking about "running" something in the context of football, we mean executing a type of play. Presumably we are all football fans here. When we say Jimmy Garoppolo is the type of guy who is capable of running what Tom Brady ran, we are not saying Jimmy is as good as Brady. We are saying he is the type of QB who can execute a similar offense. Quick screens. Slant/flat concepts. Occasional play-action. Tom Brady runs that. Jimmy is capable of running that. At no point ever is it reasonable to then infer they are the same level of quarterback.

I wouldn't at all agree with the comment that Jimmy G is capable of running what Tom Brady ran specifically because he isn't as skilled a player. He can do some of what Tom Brady can do, just as Trey can do some of what Hurts can do. You made a blanket statement. I understood what you were saying. Aside from that it was overboard to attack his reading comprehension when you made a vague comment that could be interpreted multiple ways.

I don't have a problem with your reply anyway. It was the other guy(s) who went flat out into making it about the poster and added legitimately zero substance to the conversation. I promise you those guys aren't perfect with their reading comprehension. Had to explain how a comma worked to one of them, and I did it without being a d******d and hijacking the conversation.

My issue here is that Jimmy ran the same thing that Tom Brady ran in 2016. And by that I mean he literally ran the same offense. That is in fact why he was drafted, I'd wager. The only difference between the two is the degree of execution. You won't get Brady's production level from anyone, but if you need someone to run that system, Jimmy is a great choice. Likewise, if you need someone to run QB power because you don't have Jalen Hurts, Trey is a great choice.

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
My issue here is that Jimmy ran the same thing that Tom Brady ran in 2016. And by that I mean he literally ran the same offense. That is in fact why he was drafted, I'd wager. The only difference between the two is the degree of execution. You won't get Brady's production level from anyone, but if you need someone to run that system, Jimmy is a great choice. Likewise, if you need someone to run QB power because you don't have Jalen Hurts, Trey is a great choice.

I understand what you are describing here. I'm telling you the vague wording you used is open to interpretation outside of a more detailed explanation like this.

This is beside the point anyway. The point was the way his post was responded to. Period. Again, he did not initially make a definitive claim about what you were saying… and you have avoided to address that point even though I've mentioned it to you specifically.

You ready to be done with this yet? At least stop trying to explain to me what you meant considering I've told you multiple times I interpreted it exactly as you meant it. Even though I still disagree with your more detailed explanation on its face. When you're making comparisons between players and systems, the degree of execution is a critical distinction. Jimmy is not a great choice to run the same offense as Tom Brady, because he is not remotely close to the same quality of player. Otherwise these kinds of comments can work for any QB in any system. *Trey can run the same offense as Tom Brady too. The degree of execution would be different! Absolutely no point.*

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
No. It was because broken tackles happen very rarely for QBs (almost every QB is in the single digits each year), and you can have ten rushing yards off of 1 broken tackle, and consequently it felt stupid to include a year in which Trey didn't even have a single broken tackle. Especially considering that DIVIDING BY ZERO IS MATHEMATICALLY IMPOSSIBLE in the ring of real numbers.

When I talk about math I try to avoid dividing by zero. Just not my thing. Some people are comfortable with things that are mathematically undefined. I am not. Usually.

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Regardless, the more important number is by far YAC.

So then why use that argument at all? You used the one year that suited your argument. Since it was mathematically impossible then you should have used their career BT/ATT if you were going to use that argument at all.

Yeah, I shouldn't have. However, Trey has so few attempts at anything that the compulsion to use what is there when discussing him is hard to avoid. Because literally watching Trey Lance run the same type of plays on film somehow doesn't register to these guys—it's literally on film. Most likely because they turned off the TV when Jimmy got hurt. Every time I have a conversation with the former Jimmy Club members about Trey I become more and more convinced of that. How many times do we have to show Trey juking a safety to someone saying he has no lateral quickness? How many times do we have to show the play where he's running around behind the line against the Cardinals to get this through their heads? Maybe they don't even watch the videos and gifs we post here. Maybe the love for Jimmy really is that strong. I don't know. But because they seem impervious to the OBSERVABLE REALITY of film, I have to go look through statistical data which correlates with what's on tape. And since there's so little of it, we end up in a situation where I have to omit a year because there's literally no broken tackles there, making the division undefined.

Originally posted by krizay:
Then there's the fact that Jalen Hurts had 41 QB shoves/sneaks and more than 15 kneel downs that count as rushing attempts. Where does that factor into your YAC/att?

Well, PFR needs to adjust their stat. In any event, I manually counted his kneel downs at 18. Which changes his YAC/ATT by a whopping 0.1, maknig it 0.9. (165-18 = 147; YAC is 133, 133/147 = 0.905)

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by genus49:
And i've said for a while and still stand by that, that Trey's issue running isn't speed or agility. I believe you can see a clear difference in how confidently he runs when doing a QB scramble vs a designed run.

I bring up the Seattle game where he came in for Jimmy in the 2nd half. Those were some of his best runs because most of them were off scramble plays vs the runs we saw in Arizona/Houston where most of them were designed runs. I think if he got more experience and got a handle on game speed the designed runs would look better as a result as well.

He'll never be a Justin Fields or Lamar Jackson but he absolutely can hurt teams if they don't account for his legs.

So if I understand you correct, his issue as a runner, is he lacks confidence?

I'd say it's about trusting what he sees as well. He hasn't played a lot of football. The idea that that only affects his ability to decipher a defense when passing is incorrect. It affects him running, too. And also because of the school he came from, those times he looked slow he had yet to adjust to NFL speed. But we've already had this conversation last year and I think you were in it, so not sure why we're repeating this stuff.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
My issue here is that Jimmy ran the same thing that Tom Brady ran in 2016. And by that I mean he literally ran the same offense. That is in fact why he was drafted, I'd wager. The only difference between the two is the degree of execution. You won't get Brady's production level from anyone, but if you need someone to run that system, Jimmy is a great choice. Likewise, if you need someone to run QB power because you don't have Jalen Hurts, Trey is a great choice.

I understand what you are describing here. I'm telling you the vague wording you used is open to interpretation outside of a more detailed explanation like this.

This is beside the point anyway. The point was the way his post was responded to. Period. Again, he did not initially make a definitive claim about what you were saying… and you have avoided to address that point even though I've mentioned it to you specifically.

You ready to be done with this yet? At least stop trying to explain to me what you meant considering I've told you multiple times I interpreted it exactly as you meant it. Even though I still disagree with your more detailed explanation on its face. When you're making comparisons between players and systems, the degree of execution is a critical distinction. Jimmy is not a great choice to run the same offense as Tom Brady, because he is not remotely close to the same quality of player. Otherwise these kinds of comments can work for any QB in any system. *Trey can run the same offense as Tom Brady too. The degree of execution would be different! Absolutely no point.*

Yeah I don't think you do quite get what I was saying, because you seem to be missing the QB archetype inference (shown in the bolded portion of your comment).

Trey is not good at quick stuff. He will not excel at things like curl flats concepts which are such huge staples of the Patriots offense. Jimmy CAN and DOES excel at those types of reads. What separates Tom from Jimmy is that Tom has much better deep passing, is a bit more accurate, and reads defenses better. But the staple plays of the offensive scheme itself? Jimmy is in fact in the mold of the archetype QB for that system. He is ideally suited to it.

As for Trey, Trey is in the Donovan McNabb, Cam Newton mold. He is ideally suited to QB runs between the tackles and a deep passing game. That is the archetype he is. Sam Darnold is not. Hence Trey would be "more comfortable" running those types of runs. Some of the types of runs that Jalen Hurts ran, which I was referring to when I made the statement. These types of runs that would be more readily available if Trey is the back up instead of Darnold.

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Yeah I don't think you do quite get what I was saying, because you seem to be missing the QB archetype inference (shown in the bolded portion of your comment).

Trey is not good at quick stuff. He will not excel at things like curl flats concepts which are such huge staples of the Patriots offense. Jimmy CAN and DOES excel at those types of reads. What separates Tom from Jimmy is that Tom has much better deep passing, is a bit more accurate, and reads defenses better. But the staple plays of the offensive scheme itself? Jimmy is in fact in the mold of the archetype QB for that system. He is ideally suited to it.

As for Trey, Trey is in the Donovan McNabb, Cam Newton mold. He is ideally suited to QB runs between the tackles and a deep passing game. That is the archetype he is. Sam Darnold is not. Hence Trey would be "more comfortable" running those types of runs. Some of the types of runs that Jalen Hurts ran, which I was referring to when I made the statement. These types of runs that would be more readily available if Trey is the back up instead of Darnold.

I get it man, lol. Holy s**t. What I'm telling you is QB archetype means nothing if the guy can't execute whatever offense he's a 'fit' for at a high enough level.

We all understand that Trey's archetype is dual threat, power running QB, that ideally could attack defenses like Jalen Hurts, or Cam Newton, or Josh Allen. It goes without saying. What actually matters and what is actually worth discussing is whether or not he can do it successfully. Don't be surprised when people focus on that aspect instead of what doesn't need to be said.

So good practice from Lance. That's good to hear. See if he can start stacking days.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Yeah I don't think you do quite get what I was saying, because you seem to be missing the QB archetype inference (shown in the bolded portion of your comment).

Trey is not good at quick stuff. He will not excel at things like curl flats concepts which are such huge staples of the Patriots offense. Jimmy CAN and DOES excel at those types of reads. What separates Tom from Jimmy is that Tom has much better deep passing, is a bit more accurate, and reads defenses better. But the staple plays of the offensive scheme itself? Jimmy is in fact in the mold of the archetype QB for that system. He is ideally suited to it.

As for Trey, Trey is in the Donovan McNabb, Cam Newton mold. He is ideally suited to QB runs between the tackles and a deep passing game. That is the archetype he is. Sam Darnold is not. Hence Trey would be "more comfortable" running those types of runs. Some of the types of runs that Jalen Hurts ran, which I was referring to when I made the statement. These types of runs that would be more readily available if Trey is the back up instead of Darnold.

I get it man, lol. Holy s**t. What I'm telling you is QB archetype means nothing if the guy can't execute whatever offense he's a 'fit' for at a high enough level.

We all understand that Trey's archetype is dual threat, power running QB, that ideally could attack defenses like Jalen Hurts, or Cam Newton, or Josh Allen. It goes without saying. What actually matters and what is actually worth discussing is whether or not he can do it successfully. Don't be surprised when people focus on that aspect instead of what doesn't need to be said.

Well he clearly can execute QB power and things off of it and did so a lot. So if that's your point I don't understand the relevance.

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
I explained it, and you seem to have not read it. Division by zero is impossible in the ring of real numbers.

Oh I get them fine. Zero problem with what you posted. The criticism was what I was criticizing. Par for the course though with some posters.

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by genus49:
And i've said for a while and still stand by that, that Trey's issue running isn't speed or agility. I believe you can see a clear difference in how confidently he runs when doing a QB scramble vs a designed run.

I bring up the Seattle game where he came in for Jimmy in the 2nd half. Those were some of his best runs because most of them were off scramble plays vs the runs we saw in Arizona/Houston where most of them were designed runs. I think if he got more experience and got a handle on game speed the designed runs would look better as a result as well.

He'll never be a Justin Fields or Lamar Jackson but he absolutely can hurt teams if they don't account for his legs.

So if I understand you correct, his issue as a runner, is he lacks confidence?

I'd say it's about trusting what he sees as well. He hasn't played a lot of football. The idea that that only affects his ability to decipher a defense when passing is incorrect. It affects him running, too. And also because of the school he came from, those times he looked slow he had yet to adjust to NFL speed. But we've already had this conversation last year and I think you were in it, so not sure why we're repeating this stuff.

Yeah, Trey needs a lot of live reps because right now - essentially every play is his first time experiencing it. Specifically at this level or anywhere near it. He won't start to move faster (passing and running) until he gets more reps. That's what make it so hard to figure out what he really is.

I've said it before, he needs a good two seasons of playing before we can really say what he is or isn't. But with his injuries, his whole plan is thrown off (and Brock's play). Right now we should be going into his second season of play, which we would know what he is before having to execute the fifth year option. It's unfortunate for him but we will see how it plays out. Never know what will happen once the games start.

Originally posted by NCommand:
No, I believe Kyle is conservative. There's a whole podcast on it with Crocker from yesterday. I believe he coaches up his QB's to take the higher % shots and that's evident over time. I believe he likes to be in control of when the deeper shots are taken hence how JD has highlighted those being set up from earlier designs.

He's had 7 years to construct a team exactly how he wants it. Golden and 9ers4eva believe Aiyuk is our consistent deep threat (which is fine but I don't see the objective evidence for that). We've changed QB's. We still have no consistent deep threat, IMHO. What's the one constant? Kyle. He runs this b***h.

QB's change, spray chart stays the same. In fact, the only change we ever saw was with Trey when he became a FB dive specialist where the spray charts actually flipped.

So no, I'm going to focus on the 95% grounded in history and expect the exact same thing this year. A couple calculated set-up deep shots per game by Kyle using different personnel, mixed in with an off schedule shot once in a while by the QB/conditions but living in Kyle's designs under 20 yards the rest of the time.

Brock Purdy vs Jimmy G - Season Passing Chart pic.twitter.com/RQ6HR3qvLY

— Ryan G Hensley (@ryanghensley) December 26, 2022

Literally the only thing those spray charts show is kyle calling plays that their QBs can make. Do you think Jimmy is gonna head to the Raiders and start pushing it downfield a ton? Do you think if Brock got tossed in a Arians offense that he would all of a sudden be leading the league in air yards? Not a chance. That chart shows that those QBs have similar skill sets. That's all.

was kyle calling in breaking routes and screens when RG3 was the QB? Nah. Dude is forming his scheme around the QBs skill set. It's why he couldn't toggle between Jimmy and Lance his rookie yr. Different skill sets require different play calling.

Acting like how he constructed his offense is proof to them not wanting to push the ball downfield is ridiculous. BA is absolutely a deep threat. Go look at Deebo when lance was throwing, PA deep ball TDs. Danny gray deep threat. Even Pettis was regarded as a full field WR. Not just a possession WR. He clearly couldn't do what he was doing in college here all said and done.

Reports are they wanted DK and Deebo. He DRAFTED Lance for what? His ability to throw a two yard slant or a screen pass? f**k no.

Not a chance kyle plays "conservative" if he's got Allen/burrow/Herbert/Mahomes. Talent matters with play calling.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:
No, I believe Kyle is conservative. There's a whole podcast on it with Crocker from yesterday. I believe he coaches up his QB's to take the higher % shots and that's evident over time. I believe he likes to be in control of when the deeper shots are taken hence how JD has highlighted those being set up from earlier designs.

He's had 7 years to construct a team exactly how he wants it. Golden and 9ers4eva believe Aiyuk is our consistent deep threat (which is fine but I don't see the objective evidence for that). We've changed QB's. We still have no consistent deep threat, IMHO. What's the one constant? Kyle. He runs this b***h.

QB's change, spray chart stays the same. In fact, the only change we ever saw was with Trey when he became a FB dive specialist where the spray charts actually flipped.

So no, I'm going to focus on the 95% grounded in history and expect the exact same thing this year. A couple calculated set-up deep shots per game by Kyle using different personnel, mixed in with an off schedule shot once in a while by the QB/conditions but living in Kyle's designs under 20 yards the rest of the time.

Brock Purdy vs Jimmy G - Season Passing Chart pic.twitter.com/RQ6HR3qvLY

— Ryan G Hensley (@ryanghensley) December 26, 2022

Literally the only thing those spray charts show is kyle calling plays that their QBs can make. Do you think Jimmy is gonna head to the Raiders and start pushing it downfield a ton? Do you think if Brock got tossed in a Arians offense that he would all of a sudden be leading the league in air yards? Not a chance. That chart shows that those QBs have similar skill sets. That's all.

was kyle calling in breaking routes and screens when RG3 was the QB? Nah. Dude is forming his scheme around the QBs skill set. It's why he couldn't toggle between Jimmy and Lance his rookie yr. Different skill sets require different play calling.

Acting like how he constructed his offense is proof to them not wanting to push the ball downfield is ridiculous. BA is absolutely a deep threat. Go look at Deebo when lance was throwing, PA deep ball TDs. Danny gray deep threat. Even Pettis was regarded as a full field WR. Not just a possession WR. He clearly couldn't do what he was doing in college here all said and done.

Reports are they wanted DK and Deebo. He DRAFTED Lance for what? His ability to throw a two yard slant or a screen pass? f**k no.

Not a chance kyle plays "conservative" if he's got Allen/burrow/Herbert/Mahomes. Talent matters with play calling.

Jimmy? Jimmy has the 3rd highest air yards ever behind Otto Graham and one other per GP. Also per Greg Panelli, this is certainly a bottom tier passing game here; even with Brock, in volume and design and priority.

https://castbox.fm/x/33gtE

Yes, Kyle would change the whole offense for Trey but clearly, he's not into that anymore. He loves his Cousins, Garoppolo and Brock-style QB's > Griffin and Lance.

And since he runs this b***h, there's no doubt this is how HE rolls after 7 years.

As to Jimmy back in a spread offense, I actually expect him to become more of a check down QB in that system. Here? We had no check downs options here for his career, nor deep threats so he and Kyle lived in the 7 to 15 yard range, live or die. That's why he's #3 all time in that stat.

What does Danny Gray prove to you? He'll be lucky to steal 100 snaps from Aiyuk at the X. Kyle likes versatility and different skill sets for scheming. Nothing more. None of the guys you listed are consistent deep threats here. Not even close.

Kyle is conservative by nature esp. as a HC where he's responsible for an entire team, not just a YOLO OC trying to get a HCing job. Here are additional examples of that:

https://castbox.fm/x/33TOq

You need to get your head out of the clouds and focus more on who Kyle is here after 7 years. This is his team. His system. His philosophy. And his personnel. He's the one constant in a consistent theme despite the players changing.