Dallas Cowboys QB Trey Lance Thread

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Folks are trippin if they think Kyle is all of the sudden gonna drop the high percentage passing plays to throw deep regardless of who the qb is. Why didn't he just call deep shots all the time when Trey was in there before? It's because he's a professional that understands that the real NFL doesn't work like Madden. Go look at the number of pass completions over 40 yards, it's like less than one a game for the top, strong armed qbs. So all of you guys arguing that it's critical to have a quarterback who has a cannon for an arm sound silly. It's far more important to be able to hit the short and intermediate plays that sustain drives. If Trey had been better at doing that, we wouldn't have seen Kyle forced to run qb power over and over that first year with him. Deep passes are literally the least important passes in all of football, they are mostly eye candy to keep defenses honest, and if you connect on one a game, it's a bonus. If you try relying on low percentage plays as a staple in your offense, your offense is going to be terrible. Also, we've already seen what happens when you try to rely on qb power. Cam Newton is 25 pounds heavier than Trey and a better runner and it wore him down. I don't want to see Trey all beat up constantly, it's why his development as a passer has been set back two years. In my opinion we should use him like Mahomes is used, maybe run qb draw every once in awhile when you catch them in man. The threat of the run will be there without all the called run bs that has gotten him hurt at least twice now in four career starts.

I find what's odd about this debate, is the strong arm crowd seemingly couldn't care less about Darnold, who certainly has plus arm talent. You lose the designed run stuff, going from TL to Sam, however, most ppl probably regard that as a plus anyway, like you do.

Darnold turns the ball over a lot which he has demonstrated throughout his career and hasn't seemed to change thus far based on the limited reports we've gotten out of OTAs.

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Folks are trippin if they think Kyle is all of the sudden gonna drop the high percentage passing plays to throw deep regardless of who the qb is. Why didn't he just call deep shots all the time when Trey was in there before? It's because he's a professional that understands that the real NFL doesn't work like Madden. Go look at the number of pass completions over 40 yards, it's like less than one a game for the top, strong armed qbs. So all of you guys arguing that it's critical to have a quarterback who has a cannon for an arm sound silly. It's far more important to be able to hit the short and intermediate plays that sustain drives. If Trey had been better at doing that, we wouldn't have seen Kyle forced to run qb power over and over that first year with him. Deep passes are literally the least important passes in all of football, they are mostly eye candy to keep defenses honest, and if you connect on one a game, it's a bonus. If you try relying on low percentage plays as a staple in your offense, your offense is going to be terrible. Also, we've already seen what happens when you try to rely on qb power. Cam Newton is 25 pounds heavier than Trey and a better runner and it wore him down. I don't want to see Trey all beat up constantly, it's why his development as a passer has been set back two years. In my opinion we should use him like Mahomes is used, maybe run qb draw every once in awhile when you catch them in man. The threat of the run will be there without all the called run bs that has gotten him hurt at least twice now in four career starts.

I find what's odd about this debate, is the strong arm crowd seemingly couldn't care less about Darnold, who certainly has plus arm talent. You lose the designed run stuff, going from TL to Sam, however, most ppl probably regard that as a plus anyway, like you do.

Darnold turns the ball over a lot which he has demonstrated throughout his career and hasn't seemed to change thus far based on the limited reports we've gotten out of OTAs.

I don't view turnovers as fixed year to year. Alex sucked, then got near league best, when he actually got some coaching. I think Darnold gives some of the TL traits, and some of the BP traits. KS clearly sees something in him, and even commented on the TOs and said it would be different here in his opinion, particularly if we aren't chasing the game here, which we are not often doing.

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Folks are trippin if they think Kyle is all of the sudden gonna drop the high percentage passing plays to throw deep regardless of who the qb is. Why didn't he just call deep shots all the time when Trey was in there before? It's because he's a professional that understands that the real NFL doesn't work like Madden. Go look at the number of pass completions over 40 yards, it's like less than one a game for the top, strong armed qbs. So all of you guys arguing that it's critical to have a quarterback who has a cannon for an arm sound silly. It's far more important to be able to hit the short and intermediate plays that sustain drives. If Trey had been better at doing that, we wouldn't have seen Kyle forced to run qb power over and over that first year with him. Deep passes are literally the least important passes in all of football, they are mostly eye candy to keep defenses honest, and if you connect on one a game, it's a bonus. If you try relying on low percentage plays as a staple in your offense, your offense is going to be terrible. Also, we've already seen what happens when you try to rely on qb power. Cam Newton is 25 pounds heavier than Trey and a better runner and it wore him down. I don't want to see Trey all beat up constantly, it's why his development as a passer has been set back two years. In my opinion we should use him like Mahomes is used, maybe run qb draw every once in awhile when you catch them in man. The threat of the run will be there without all the called run bs that has gotten him hurt at least twice now in four career starts.

I think you're trippin if you believe Kyle was running Trey because he wasn't good passing. That's like saying we use CMC so much in the pass game because he's a weak runner. But I do love that you say "all of THE sudden" lol. Thought that was an Utah thing.

Originally posted by SLCNiner:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Folks are trippin if they think Kyle is all of the sudden gonna drop the high percentage passing plays to throw deep regardless of who the qb is. Why didn't he just call deep shots all the time when Trey was in there before? It's because he's a professional that understands that the real NFL doesn't work like Madden. Go look at the number of pass completions over 40 yards, it's like less than one a game for the top, strong armed qbs. So all of you guys arguing that it's critical to have a quarterback who has a cannon for an arm sound silly. It's far more important to be able to hit the short and intermediate plays that sustain drives. If Trey had been better at doing that, we wouldn't have seen Kyle forced to run qb power over and over that first year with him. Deep passes are literally the least important passes in all of football, they are mostly eye candy to keep defenses honest, and if you connect on one a game, it's a bonus. If you try relying on low percentage plays as a staple in your offense, your offense is going to be terrible. Also, we've already seen what happens when you try to rely on qb power. Cam Newton is 25 pounds heavier than Trey and a better runner and it wore him down. I don't want to see Trey all beat up constantly, it's why his development as a passer has been set back two years. In my opinion we should use him like Mahomes is used, maybe run qb draw every once in awhile when you catch them in man. The threat of the run will be there without all the called run bs that has gotten him hurt at least twice now in four career starts.

I think you're trippin if you believe Kyle was running Trey because he wasn't good passing. That's like saying we use CMC so much in the pass game because he's a weak runner. But I do love that you say "all of THE sudden" lol. Thought that was an Utah thing.

So you think it was operation battering ram (which wasn't working btw)..

yet KS could have just pocket passed ARZ to death if he wanted to, he chose not to?

I kept saying it. - Trey didn't look good last off season and the team wasn't confident in him. Just check out this article.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2023/06/07/george-kittles-praise-for-trey-lance-confirms-his-past-struggles/

You have to be a homer to not have recognized that. It's all fine too. It's the past and he's progressing, that's all that matters. I just don't understand why people refuse to admit he hasn't looked very good. It blows my mind. Lol there are a handful of people in here that refuses to believe the guy hasn't been spectacular. Lol

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by SLCNiner:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Folks are trippin if they think Kyle is all of the sudden gonna drop the high percentage passing plays to throw deep regardless of who the qb is. Why didn't he just call deep shots all the time when Trey was in there before? It's because he's a professional that understands that the real NFL doesn't work like Madden. Go look at the number of pass completions over 40 yards, it's like less than one a game for the top, strong armed qbs. So all of you guys arguing that it's critical to have a quarterback who has a cannon for an arm sound silly. It's far more important to be able to hit the short and intermediate plays that sustain drives. If Trey had been better at doing that, we wouldn't have seen Kyle forced to run qb power over and over that first year with him. Deep passes are literally the least important passes in all of football, they are mostly eye candy to keep defenses honest, and if you connect on one a game, it's a bonus. If you try relying on low percentage plays as a staple in your offense, your offense is going to be terrible. Also, we've already seen what happens when you try to rely on qb power. Cam Newton is 25 pounds heavier than Trey and a better runner and it wore him down. I don't want to see Trey all beat up constantly, it's why his development as a passer has been set back two years. In my opinion we should use him like Mahomes is used, maybe run qb draw every once in awhile when you catch them in man. The threat of the run will be there without all the called run bs that has gotten him hurt at least twice now in four career starts.

I think you're trippin if you believe Kyle was running Trey because he wasn't good passing. That's like saying we use CMC so much in the pass game because he's a weak runner. But I do love that you say "all of THE sudden" lol. Thought that was an Utah thing.

So you think it was operation battering ram (which wasn't working btw)..

yet KS could have just pocket passed ARZ to death if he wanted to, he chose not to?

I think Kyle designs game plans the way he wants and he normally wants to run the ball. Calling run plays for Trey has to do with his ability as a runner, not as a passer. Did you think we drafted a mobile QB to NOT call designed runs?

Originally posted by SLCNiner:
I think Kyle designs game plans the way he wants and he normally wants to run the ball. Calling run plays for Trey has to do with his ability as a runner, not as a passer. Did you think we drafted a mobile QB to NOT call designed runs?

No, but the issue again is not that he uses those plays but how much he uses those plays. And we all watched our offense struggle and Trey take huge hits on many of those runs. Kyle isn't an idiot. He didn't forget how to run a successful offense with Trey at QB.

It should be an ancillary means of attack, and nothing throughout Kyle's career would indicate he would want it to be more.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by SLCNiner:
I think Kyle designs game plans the way he wants and he normally wants to run the ball. Calling run plays for Trey has to do with his ability as a runner, not as a passer. Did you think we drafted a mobile QB to NOT call designed runs?

No, but the issue again is not that he uses those plays but how much he uses those plays. And we all watched our offense struggle and Trey take huge hits on many of those runs. Kyle isn't an idiot. He didn't forget how to run a successful offense with Trey at QB.

It should be an ancillary means of attack, and nothing throughout Kyle's career would indicate he would want it to be more.

So which game did he not air it out enough for you guys? Was it the tropical storm in Chicago? Or the 1st quarter vs Seattle?

Originally posted by Waterbear:
I'm all for being critical of Trey if they let him throw and he couldn't deliver. But they couldn't even do that!! He didn't get a chance. And now for another year plus we will have to hear "fans" mock Lance the player without him getting a chance to show what he can do through the air.

I've never been down on Kyle as much as I am today.

Im glad we have Jimmy and Purdy so our season isn't over. But I would have rather lost by 40 than have Lance out the full season.

Originally posted by SLCNiner:
Every word of this. If Kyle didn't trust Lance to throw, he shouldn't have named him the starter. As soon as Jimmy came in, we got back to a regular offense. Running your QB up the gut that much is asking for exactly what happened.

Originally posted by SLCNiner:
So which game did he not air it out enough for you guys? Was it the tropical storm in Chicago? Or the 1st quarter vs Seattle?

Here's a post of yours from the day he was injured. You can see a bunch more from others starting ~ page 3120.

As far as wanting Kyle to air it out more with Lance... that's not really what I would argue was a proper solution. The bolded part of your post is.

*edited in the post you responded to then*

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:
That's a very strange claim.

I didn't hear him say that when he was on Locked On…

They said:

"The 49ers drop back passing game is maybe the weakest in the NFL..." ~ Crocker
"Yeah...I would say it's below average..." ~ GP

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Jimmy? Jimmy has the 3rd highest air yards ever behind Otto Graham and one other per GP. Also per Greg Panelli, this is certainly a bottom tier passing game here; even with Brock, in volume and design and priority.

https://castbox.fm/x/33gtE

Yes, Kyle would change the whole offense for Trey but clearly, he's not into that anymore. He loves his Cousins, Garoppolo and Brock-style QB's > Griffin and Lance.

And since he runs this b***h, there's no doubt this is how HE rolls after 7 years.

As to Jimmy back in a spread offense, I actually expect him to become more of a check down QB in that system. Here? We had no check downs options here for his career, nor deep threats so he and Kyle lived in the 7 to 15 yard range, live or die. That's why he's #3 all time in that stat.

What does Danny Gray prove to you? He'll be lucky to steal 100 snaps from Aiyuk at the X. Kyle likes versatility and different skill sets for scheming. Nothing more. None of the guys you listed are consistent deep threats here. Not even close.

Kyle is conservative by nature esp. as a HC where he's responsible for an entire team, not just a YOLO OC trying to get a HCing job. Here are additional examples of that:

https://castbox.fm/x/33TOq

You need to get your head out of the clouds and focus more on who Kyle is here after 7 years. This is his team. His system. His philosophy. And his personnel. He's the one constant in a consistent theme despite the players changing.

Yeah Greg is completely wrong and you can tell what site he googled from. His career IAY/PA from per pro-football reference 7.0, which for context would have been good for 24th in the league this yr. The only reason it's even that hight is because of an outlier 2018 of 8.9 IAY/PA over the course of 2 and 1/2 games.

You need to stop listening to others and do some of your own research.

kyle literally said Cousins isn't his ideal QB. IF he really wanted that then McCorkle would be here not Lance. Why do you just breeze by that little fact? He's the guy making the decisions, you've said so yourself. His biggest move since being here was getting a QB that isn't what you think he loves/needs. So how about you stop assuming/try to toss our theories as reality. Acting like kyle is allergic to wanting to use the whole field is ridiculous.

He said:

"Jimmy G is 3rd all time in air yards per attempt through his career...Otto Graham and Sid Luckman were ahead of him..." ~ GP

I don't know if he's referencing PFF, NextGen, etc. It sounded like he got it from a circulating article and looked it up that day of the pod to confirm.

You still haven't described how the offense would be different and how Trey would 'unlock' Kyle and his most ideal offense. What would that look like?

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Folks are trippin if they think Kyle is all of the sudden gonna drop the high percentage passing plays to throw deep regardless of who the qb is. Why didn't he just call deep shots all the time when Trey was in there before? It's because he's a professional that understands that the real NFL doesn't work like Madden. Go look at the number of pass completions over 40 yards, it's like less than one a game for the top, strong armed qbs. So all of you guys arguing that it's critical to have a quarterback who has a cannon for an arm sound silly. It's far more important to be able to hit the short and intermediate plays that sustain drives. If Trey had been better at doing that, we wouldn't have seen Kyle forced to run qb power over and over that first year with him. Deep passes are literally the least important passes in all of football, they are mostly eye candy to keep defenses honest, and if you connect on one a game, it's a bonus. If you try relying on low percentage plays as a staple in your offense, your offense is going to be terrible. Also, we've already seen what happens when you try to rely on qb power. Cam Newton is 25 pounds heavier than Trey and a better runner and it wore him down. I don't want to see Trey all beat up constantly, it's why his development as a passer has been set back two years. In my opinion we should use him like Mahomes is used, maybe run qb draw every once in awhile when you catch them in man. The threat of the run will be there without all the called run bs that has gotten him hurt at least twice now in four career starts.

Of course he isn't going to drop all of that. But he does want his guys to take the shots WHEN they are open. You have to show the defense that you can threaten the entire field.

Brock threw more deep not because we called more of it per se, it was him taking advantage of the opportunities that presented themselves. Kyle wants a guy who can do that consistently whether that is Brock or Trey.

So is NY expecting far more of that than Brock?

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by Waterbear:
I'm all for being critical of Trey if they let him throw and he couldn't deliver. But they couldn't even do that!! He didn't get a chance. And now for another year plus we will have to hear "fans" mock Lance the player without him getting a chance to show what he can do through the air.

I've never been down on Kyle as much as I am today.

Im glad we have Jimmy and Purdy so our season isn't over. But I would have rather lost by 40 than have Lance out the full season.

Originally posted by SLCNiner:
Every word of this. If Kyle didn't trust Lance to throw, he shouldn't have named him the starter. As soon as Jimmy came in, we got back to a regular offense. Running your QB up the gut that much is asking for exactly what happened.

Originally posted by SLCNiner:
So which game did he not air it out enough for you guys? Was it the tropical storm in Chicago? Or the 1st quarter vs Seattle?

Here's a post of yours from the day he was injured. You can see a bunch more from others starting ~ page 3120.

As far as wanting Kyle to air it out more with Lance... that's not really what I would argue was a proper solution. The bolded part of your post is.

*edited in the post you responded to then*

Ummmmm duh oops
Lmao

Originally posted by Jeepzilla:
Ummmmm duh oops
Lmao

Honestly not trying to make it a point in that way.

There's an element of knee-jerk, overly emotional, type of response immediately following a catastrophic injury like that. At the same time, the more time that passes the more peoples' biases will filter into their rationalizations of what actually happened.

Kyle put Lance and our team in a bad situation to start the season. They thankfully recognized it before the season started and at least hedged their decision and protected the team (but not Lance himself).

Here is a transcript from Greg Papa the other day on the radio talking Lance:

You have the old John Elway play of roll right, throw it back left downfield. Kyle had Trey out there doing it, and he's looking great. He's hitting em one after another, bang, bang, bang. Then you get the defense out there, and he one hops the first one right into the dirt.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by SLCNiner:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Folks are trippin if they think Kyle is all of the sudden gonna drop the high percentage passing plays to throw deep regardless of who the qb is. Why didn't he just call deep shots all the time when Trey was in there before? It's because he's a professional that understands that the real NFL doesn't work like Madden. Go look at the number of pass completions over 40 yards, it's like less than one a game for the top, strong armed qbs. So all of you guys arguing that it's critical to have a quarterback who has a cannon for an arm sound silly. It's far more important to be able to hit the short and intermediate plays that sustain drives. If Trey had been better at doing that, we wouldn't have seen Kyle forced to run qb power over and over that first year with him. Deep passes are literally the least important passes in all of football, they are mostly eye candy to keep defenses honest, and if you connect on one a game, it's a bonus. If you try relying on low percentage plays as a staple in your offense, your offense is going to be terrible. Also, we've already seen what happens when you try to rely on qb power. Cam Newton is 25 pounds heavier than Trey and a better runner and it wore him down. I don't want to see Trey all beat up constantly, it's why his development as a passer has been set back two years. In my opinion we should use him like Mahomes is used, maybe run qb draw every once in awhile when you catch them in man. The threat of the run will be there without all the called run bs that has gotten him hurt at least twice now in four career starts.

I think you're trippin if you believe Kyle was running Trey because he wasn't good passing. That's like saying we use CMC so much in the pass game because he's a weak runner. But I do love that you say "all of THE sudden" lol. Thought that was an Utah thing.

So you think it was operation battering ram (which wasn't working btw)..

yet KS could have just pocket passed ARZ to death if he wanted to, he chose not to?

Purdy's ascension last year really exposed the weaknesses in Jimmy and Trey. He hadn't taken a single first-team rep but went in against the Dolphins and did very well. Then absolutely tore it up the rest of the season. Same weapons, same OL, same coach, etc. He can run the offense the way Kyle wants, and he's able to create when the play call doesn't work. I was angry as hell when Kyle was running Trey the way he was, but it's pretty clear now that Kyle was calling the best game he could for Trey based on what he was able to do.