Dallas Cowboys QB Trey Lance Thread

"Best trade destinations for Vikings' Danielle Hunter"

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/best-trade-destinations-for-vikings-danielle-hunter/ar-AA1cjiL5

Now we are talking, send TL to Minnie for Hunter.

Originally posted by riverrunzthruit:
"Kyle Shanahan: 49ers have not talked to Trey Lance about potential trade."

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2023/06/06/kyle-shanahan-49ers-have-not-talked-to-trey-lance-about-potential-trade/

And why would Shanny talk to him about this anyway? Had to be from Grant Cohn, dumb question

Handwriting is on the wall, BCB is the starter meaning TL has no future with the 9ers.... now the only question is how/when will they part ways with him? Salvage a day 3 pick for him or not execute his option year and let him walk in 2025. At this point I think Shannalynch is trying to save face over the monumental blunder of drafting TL. Trading him for a 5th rounder would be an admission of absolute failure, but letting him walk two years from now allows them to utilize a narrative of "playing their hand" to the fullest... I believe they wanted to move him prior to the draft but nobody in the league wanted him.... lately they have been speaking about him in glowing terms which I believe is a marketing campaign to puff his trade value, and I think they will try to highlight TL in the preseason (as much as TL is able to do this)... trade deadline is October, and QB needy teams get desperate for a solution so it is entirely possible TL is moved up the deadline.

Not sure what I enjoy more, your posts or Grant Cohn's podcasts.

most reports from media have Lance as the clear favorite over Darnold. He also knows the playbook while Sam is struggling understanding it (which all QBs do initially with a Shanahan run offense).

He will be the week 1 starter as there is little chance Purdy will be 100% and ready to go Week 1 (putting him out without any real practice time is beyond stupid).

Kyle will give Trey 3-4 weeks and if he does well, he will hold onto the job.

We're in a win-win situation here.

Originally posted by jimmy3233:
most reports from media have Lance as the clear favorite over Darnold. He also knows the playbook while Sam is struggling understanding it (which all QBs do initially with a Shanahan run offense).

He will be the week 1 starter as there is little chance Purdy will be 100% and ready to go Week 1 (putting him out without any real practice time is beyond stupid).

Kyle will give Trey 3-4 weeks and if he does well, he will hold onto the job.

Originally posted by random49er:
We're in a win-win situation here.

Both good posts

Originally posted by riverrunzthruit:
"Best trade destinations for Vikings' Danielle Hunter"

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/best-trade-destinations-for-vikings-danielle-hunter/ar-AA1cjiL5

Now we are talking, send TL to Minnie for Hunter.

Can we send you to MN instead?

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:
No, I believe Kyle is conservative. There's a whole podcast on it with Crocker from yesterday. I believe he coaches up his QB's to take the higher % shots and that's evident over time. I believe he likes to be in control of when the deeper shots are taken hence how JD has highlighted those being set up from earlier designs.

He's had 7 years to construct a team exactly how he wants it. Golden and 9ers4eva believe Aiyuk is our consistent deep threat (which is fine but I don't see the objective evidence for that). We've changed QB's. We still have no consistent deep threat, IMHO. What's the one constant? Kyle. He runs this b***h.

QB's change, spray chart stays the same. In fact, the only change we ever saw was with Trey when he became a FB dive specialist where the spray charts actually flipped.

So no, I'm going to focus on the 95% grounded in history and expect the exact same thing this year. A couple calculated set-up deep shots per game by Kyle using different personnel, mixed in with an off schedule shot once in a while by the QB/conditions but living in Kyle's designs under 20 yards the rest of the time.

Brock Purdy vs Jimmy G - Season Passing Chart pic.twitter.com/RQ6HR3qvLY

— Ryan G Hensley (@ryanghensley) December 26, 2022

Literally the only thing those spray charts show is kyle calling plays that their QBs can make. Do you think Jimmy is gonna head to the Raiders and start pushing it downfield a ton? Do you think if Brock got tossed in a Arians offense that he would all of a sudden be leading the league in air yards? Not a chance. That chart shows that those QBs have similar skill sets. That's all.

was kyle calling in breaking routes and screens when RG3 was the QB? Nah. Dude is forming his scheme around the QBs skill set. It's why he couldn't toggle between Jimmy and Lance his rookie yr. Different skill sets require different play calling.

Acting like how he constructed his offense is proof to them not wanting to push the ball downfield is ridiculous. BA is absolutely a deep threat. Go look at Deebo when lance was throwing, PA deep ball TDs. Danny gray deep threat. Even Pettis was regarded as a full field WR. Not just a possession WR. He clearly couldn't do what he was doing in college here all said and done.

Reports are they wanted DK and Deebo. He DRAFTED Lance for what? His ability to throw a two yard slant or a screen pass? f**k no.

Not a chance kyle plays "conservative" if he's got Allen/burrow/Herbert/Mahomes. Talent matters with play calling.

Jimmy? Jimmy has the 3rd highest air yards ever behind Otto Graham and one other per GP. Also per Greg Panelli, this is certainly a bottom tier passing game here; even with Brock, in volume and design and priority.

https://castbox.fm/x/33gtE

Yes, Kyle would change the whole offense for Trey but clearly, he's not into that anymore. He loves his Cousins, Garoppolo and Brock-style QB's > Griffin and Lance.

And since he runs this b***h, there's no doubt this is how HE rolls after 7 years.

As to Jimmy back in a spread offense, I actually expect him to become more of a check down QB in that system. Here? We had no check downs options here for his career, nor deep threats so he and Kyle lived in the 7 to 15 yard range, live or die. That's why he's #3 all time in that stat.

What does Danny Gray prove to you? He'll be lucky to steal 100 snaps from Aiyuk at the X. Kyle likes versatility and different skill sets for scheming. Nothing more. None of the guys you listed are consistent deep threats here. Not even close.

Kyle is conservative by nature esp. as a HC where he's responsible for an entire team, not just a YOLO OC trying to get a HCing job. Here are additional examples of that:

https://castbox.fm/x/33TOq

You need to get your head out of the clouds and focus more on who Kyle is here after 7 years. This is his team. His system. His philosophy. And his personnel. He's the one constant in a consistent theme despite the players changing.

Um excuse me for doubting your source, but how does it make sense for Jimmy to have the "3rd highest air yards ever" when he's ranked in the late 20s and 30s or worse his entire career at total completed air yards except for 2019 and 2021 (when he was 17th), and the same in completed air yards per pass attempt except for 2019 (16th) and 2021 (7th, his best year by far).

It's not my source but I expanded upon what he said on the podcast a page back.

I found this too but not sure how this stacks up with other career numbers...or if it's PFF, NextGen, etc. or the specific article.

8.28 yards per air yard attempt:
https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/jimmy-garoppolo-air-yards-per-attempt-career

No short game. No deep game. But when you ride or die in that MOF 7 to 15 yards, that certainly elevates this average stat.

That's not air yards, that's yards per attempt. If Jimmy had 8.28 yards in the air per attempt he'd be about twice the all time record. 14289 career yards divided by 1726 career attempts = 8.279 yards per attempt.

His career air yards per attempt is 5385 air yards divided by EDIT (air yards only goes back to 2018 on PFR, so instead of 1726, this should be 1454) 1454 attempts which is: 3.70 air yards per attempt. This is fairly average or lower. However in 2021 he broke his own trend and had a super high 4.2 air yards per pass attempt, which was 7th best in the NFL.

For comparison, Josh Allen's career completed air yards per attempt is 4.26.

Edited because air yards on pfr only goes back to 2018.

Air yards per attempt, he confirmed. Not completed. But you'll have to take it up with Greg Panelli as he was referencing a circulating article on it and then thought it sounded off and researched it himself and confirmed it.

Edit: Found the resource he was referencing.

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/most-passing-air-yards-per-attempt

Otto Graham - 8.6
Sid Luckman - 8.4
Jimmy Garoppolo - 8.3

Either way, if true, it wouldn't have been on the style many of the Madden generation would have preferred (that average stat was lifted d/t more 20+ explosives).

That is literally yards per attempt. Panelli is simply incorrect. Jimmy's yards per attempt is 8.3 (rounded up). Yards per attempt includes RAC.

It literally says, 'passing air yards per attempt' in the link address itself. That's exactly what GP said on the podcast. Top 3 all time.

For my understanding, isn't that simply the accumulated average distance that ball travels in the air per throw from the LOS? Completed or not (both)? Then it's broken down further to those that were completed also?

So why would that include RAC? That's three separate stats: 1. How far the ball traveled in the air 2. It's a complete air yards attempt and 3. RAC for the receiver after the catch/air yards.

Air yards are defined as the amount of yards the ball traveled in the air on a passing play, from line of scrimmage to contact point. If the quarterback throws the ball at the 25-yard line and the pass is caught at the 20-yard line, the amount of air yards on the pass was five yards.

Originally posted by BMoore56:

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:
No, I believe Kyle is conservative. There's a whole podcast on it with Crocker from yesterday. I believe he coaches up his QB's to take the higher % shots and that's evident over time. I believe he likes to be in control of when the deeper shots are taken hence how JD has highlighted those being set up from earlier designs.

He's had 7 years to construct a team exactly how he wants it. Golden and 9ers4eva believe Aiyuk is our consistent deep threat (which is fine but I don't see the objective evidence for that). We've changed QB's. We still have no consistent deep threat, IMHO. What's the one constant? Kyle. He runs this b***h.

QB's change, spray chart stays the same. In fact, the only change we ever saw was with Trey when he became a FB dive specialist where the spray charts actually flipped.

So no, I'm going to focus on the 95% grounded in history and expect the exact same thing this year. A couple calculated set-up deep shots per game by Kyle using different personnel, mixed in with an off schedule shot once in a while by the QB/conditions but living in Kyle's designs under 20 yards the rest of the time.

Brock Purdy vs Jimmy G - Season Passing Chart pic.twitter.com/RQ6HR3qvLY

— Ryan G Hensley (@ryanghensley) December 26, 2022

Literally the only thing those spray charts show is kyle calling plays that their QBs can make. Do you think Jimmy is gonna head to the Raiders and start pushing it downfield a ton? Do you think if Brock got tossed in a Arians offense that he would all of a sudden be leading the league in air yards? Not a chance. That chart shows that those QBs have similar skill sets. That's all.

was kyle calling in breaking routes and screens when RG3 was the QB? Nah. Dude is forming his scheme around the QBs skill set. It's why he couldn't toggle between Jimmy and Lance his rookie yr. Different skill sets require different play calling.

Acting like how he constructed his offense is proof to them not wanting to push the ball downfield is ridiculous. BA is absolutely a deep threat. Go look at Deebo when lance was throwing, PA deep ball TDs. Danny gray deep threat. Even Pettis was regarded as a full field WR. Not just a possession WR. He clearly couldn't do what he was doing in college here all said and done.

Reports are they wanted DK and Deebo. He DRAFTED Lance for what? His ability to throw a two yard slant or a screen pass? f**k no.

Not a chance kyle plays "conservative" if he's got Allen/burrow/Herbert/Mahomes. Talent matters with play calling.

Jimmy? Jimmy has the 3rd highest air yards ever behind Otto Graham and one other per GP. Also per Greg Panelli, this is certainly a bottom tier passing game here; even with Brock, in volume and design and priority.

https://castbox.fm/x/33gtE

Yes, Kyle would change the whole offense for Trey but clearly, he's not into that anymore. He loves his Cousins, Garoppolo and Brock-style QB's > Griffin and Lance.

And since he runs this b***h, there's no doubt this is how HE rolls after 7 years.

As to Jimmy back in a spread offense, I actually expect him to become more of a check down QB in that system. Here? We had no check downs options here for his career, nor deep threats so he and Kyle lived in the 7 to 15 yard range, live or die. That's why he's #3 all time in that stat.

What does Danny Gray prove to you? He'll be lucky to steal 100 snaps from Aiyuk at the X. Kyle likes versatility and different skill sets for scheming. Nothing more. None of the guys you listed are consistent deep threats here. Not even close.

Kyle is conservative by nature esp. as a HC where he's responsible for an entire team, not just a YOLO OC trying to get a HCing job. Here are additional examples of that:

https://castbox.fm/x/33TOq

You need to get your head out of the clouds and focus more on who Kyle is here after 7 years. This is his team. His system. His philosophy. And his personnel. He's the one constant in a consistent theme despite the players changing.

Um excuse me for doubting your source, but how does it make sense for Jimmy to have the "3rd highest air yards ever" when he's ranked in the late 20s and 30s or worse his entire career at total completed air yards except for 2019 and 2021 (when he was 17th), and the same in completed air yards per pass attempt except for 2019 (16th) and 2021 (7th, his best year by far).

It's not my source but I expanded upon what he said on the podcast a page back.

I found this too but not sure how this stacks up with other career numbers...or if it's PFF, NextGen, etc. or the specific article.

8.28 yards per air yard attempt:
https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/jimmy-garoppolo-air-yards-per-attempt-career

No short game. No deep game. But when you ride or die in that MOF 7 to 15 yards, that certainly elevates this average stat.

What's an air yard attempt? Someone help me out on that one.

The average yards the ball travels from the time it leaves the Qbs hands and into the receivers .. minus yac

Correct. YAC is not included at all.

I really have no idea what Kyle is doing here with Trey. He seems clueless on what's best for him. Under no circumstances he should be competing with Sam Darnold and definetely shouldn't be splitting 1st team reps. Trey needs as many reps as possible. It makes no sense. I understand going with Purdy as the #1 based on what he did last season but how does Trey go from being the starter week 1 in 2022 to competing to be the backup in 2023? It would be different if Trey had alot of games under his belt but he started 4 games total and only got injured early in week 2 last season. Now all of a sudden they won't even give him the backup job. I am trying to tell myself that Kyle is not this dumb and he is just having Trey split reps to ease him back in and not put too much on his arm and letting Sam believe he is competing to be the backup to Purdy but really has no chance.

I mean doesn't Kyle care how this makes him look around the league? This was his draft pick.

Originally posted by JTB1974:
I really have no idea what Kyle is doing here with Trey. He seems clueless on what's best for him. Under no circumstances he should be competing with Sam Darnold and definetely shouldn't be splitting 1st team reps. Trey needs as many reps as possible. It makes no sense. I understand going with Purdy as the #1 based on what he did last season but how does Trey go from being the starter week 1 in 2022 to competing to be the backup in 2023? It would be different if Trey had alot of games under his belt but he started 4 games total and only got injured early in week 2 last season. Now all of a sudden they won't even give him the backup job. I am trying to tell myself that Kyle is not this dumb and he is just having Trey split reps to ease him back in and not put too much on his arm and letting Sam believe he is competing to be the backup to Purdy but really has no chance.

I mean doesn't Kyle care how this makes him look around the league? This was his draft pick.

It makes him look like a head coach who uses the summer to consider his players and weigh up what they can contribute. It makes him look like a coach who learns from previous seasons, and is making sure that this key position is covered with the best possible depth. Also making sure that if currently injured players do not return, in the short term, to their previous level that the team has options along with reasonable depth. It makes him look like the kind of coach who is open minded regarding his players.

The league, as opposed to a bunch of fans, are well aware that there is no guarantee that draft picks will make the transition. There isn't a head coach around now or in the past who hasn't seen top picks failing. John Lynch and Adam Peters share the blame, to be fair, but looking at the current strength in depth of the roster, I can't imagine that there is much blame. There was a need, they took a gamble. So far it hasn't worked out but who knows what the future holds?

Originally posted by JTB1974:

I really have no idea what Kyle is doing here with Trey. He seems clueless on what's best for him. Under no circumstances he should be competing with Sam Darnold and definetely shouldn't be splitting 1st team reps. Trey needs as many reps as possible. It makes no sense. I understand going with Purdy as the #1 based on what he did last season but how does Trey go from being the starter week 1 in 2022 to competing to be the backup in 2023? It would be different if Trey had alot of games under his belt but he started 4 games total and only got injured early in week 2 last season. Now all of a sudden they won't even give him the backup job. I am trying to tell myself that Kyle is not this dumb and he is just having Trey split reps to ease him back in and not put too much on his arm and letting Sam believe he is competing to be the backup to Purdy but really has no chance.

I mean doesn't Kyle care how this makes him look around the league? This was his draft pick.

This is what happens when you trade everything away for a spot instead of a player. It makes everyone think they have this three 1st rounders love for Trey, when they really just wanted the luxury of scouting the available QBs without getting undercut

I do think Mac was the guy for Kyle and he was the one that had to be talked off that ledge. Kyle has never been into QBs like Trey, but he already got burned once ignoring John's request to look into Mahomes

Once they traded the picks they already lost. It made no sense to use 3 firsts for the mediocrity of Mac Jones, especially when there was a possibility of another "I wanted Mahomes but Kyle didn't" situation that couldve arise again if the Trey hype were real. He didn't want Fields, so there was really only one guy left

They ended up going with Trey, but i don't think the org was as high on him as the trade up suggests

Originally posted by jimmy3233:
most reports from media have Lance as the clear favorite over Darnold. He also knows the playbook while Sam is struggling understanding it (which all QBs do initially with a Shanahan run offense).

He will be the week 1 starter as there is little chance Purdy will be 100% and ready to go Week 1 (putting him out without any real practice time is beyond stupid).

Kyle will give Trey 3-4 weeks and if he does well, he will hold onto the job.

Which, oddly enough, is a direct contradiction of everything that Kyle and John have said in the past week or so. It would seem that both of them are fairly optimistic that Purdy will be ready to go by week one and is on a timetable that will have him cleared to play 3 weeks before the season begins. And most "media" reports have been pushing the, Darnold could be the starter if Brock isn't ready narrative. Unless of course you are including, as media, all of the guys who run content out of man caves in their basement, get all of their information from actual media sites, have never actually been to a practice or spoken to coaches or players who might be in a better position to know, and filter everything through their own particular biases and agendas.

Trey is not going to get 3-4 weeks to play, barring some unexpected setback or another injury to Purdy. He might not get three quarters, or even three minutes. Honestly, I don't understand how some people come up with the takes that they do,

Originally posted by riverrunzthruit:
"Best trade destinations for Vikings' Danielle Hunter"

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/best-trade-destinations-for-vikings-danielle-hunter/ar-AA1cjiL5

Now we are talking, send TL to Minnie for Hunter.

I like this or too the raiders for Max Crosby.

Originally posted by ModestoNiner33:

Originally posted by riverrunzthruit:
"Best trade destinations for Vikings' Danielle Hunter"

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/best-trade-destinations-for-vikings-danielle-hunter/ar-AA1cjiL5

Now we are talking, send TL to Minnie for Hunter.

I like this or too the raiders for Max Crosby.

Aye! What's good Modesto! I used to live there when I was younger. Hahahah

Originally posted by JTB1974:
I really have no idea what Kyle is doing here with Trey. He seems clueless on what's best for him. Under no circumstances he should be competing with Sam Darnold and definetely shouldn't be splitting 1st team reps. Trey needs as many reps as possible. It makes no sense. I understand going with Purdy as the #1 based on what he did last season but how does Trey go from being the starter week 1 in 2022 to competing to be the backup in 2023? It would be different if Trey had alot of games under his belt but he started 4 games total and only got injured early in week 2 last season. Now all of a sudden they won't even give him the backup job. I am trying to tell myself that Kyle is not this dumb and he is just having Trey split reps to ease him back in and not put too much on his arm and letting Sam believe he is competing to be the backup to Purdy but really has no chance.

I mean doesn't Kyle care how this makes him look around the league? This was his draft pick.

It makes sense if you see things as they really are instead of snorting fairly dust and putting hope in a fantasy over a high ceiling... Shanny doesn't see TL as a clear cut starter, or backup, on the team. Forget what he says, just look at his actions... it's obvious.

I don't believe TL was Shanny's pick, it was the ownership's pick and it was forced on him like RG3 was.

Brandon Allen has an up arrow after OTAs and is much more than a camp arm, he has a legitimate chance to beat out TL for QB3.

Perhaps TL gets placed on the practice squad for 2023 for development, if he isn't traded... he could be the scout team QB and get practice every week against the best defense in the league... the same way BCB earned his stripes and gained Shanny's confidence.