Dallas Cowboys QB Trey Lance Thread

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:
No, I believe Kyle is conservative. There's a whole podcast on it with Crocker from yesterday. I believe he coaches up his QB's to take the higher % shots and that's evident over time. I believe he likes to be in control of when the deeper shots are taken hence how JD has highlighted those being set up from earlier designs.

He's had 7 years to construct a team exactly how he wants it. Golden and 9ers4eva believe Aiyuk is our consistent deep threat (which is fine but I don't see the objective evidence for that). We've changed QB's. We still have no consistent deep threat, IMHO. What's the one constant? Kyle. He runs this b***h.

QB's change, spray chart stays the same. In fact, the only change we ever saw was with Trey when he became a FB dive specialist where the spray charts actually flipped.

So no, I'm going to focus on the 95% grounded in history and expect the exact same thing this year. A couple calculated set-up deep shots per game by Kyle using different personnel, mixed in with an off schedule shot once in a while by the QB/conditions but living in Kyle's designs under 20 yards the rest of the time.

Brock Purdy vs Jimmy G - Season Passing Chart pic.twitter.com/RQ6HR3qvLY

— Ryan G Hensley (@ryanghensley) December 26, 2022

Literally the only thing those spray charts show is kyle calling plays that their QBs can make. Do you think Jimmy is gonna head to the Raiders and start pushing it downfield a ton? Do you think if Brock got tossed in a Arians offense that he would all of a sudden be leading the league in air yards? Not a chance. That chart shows that those QBs have similar skill sets. That's all.

was kyle calling in breaking routes and screens when RG3 was the QB? Nah. Dude is forming his scheme around the QBs skill set. It's why he couldn't toggle between Jimmy and Lance his rookie yr. Different skill sets require different play calling.

Acting like how he constructed his offense is proof to them not wanting to push the ball downfield is ridiculous. BA is absolutely a deep threat. Go look at Deebo when lance was throwing, PA deep ball TDs. Danny gray deep threat. Even Pettis was regarded as a full field WR. Not just a possession WR. He clearly couldn't do what he was doing in college here all said and done.

Reports are they wanted DK and Deebo. He DRAFTED Lance for what? His ability to throw a two yard slant or a screen pass? f**k no.

Not a chance kyle plays "conservative" if he's got Allen/burrow/Herbert/Mahomes. Talent matters with play calling.

Jimmy? Jimmy has the 3rd highest air yards ever behind Otto Graham and one other per GP. Also per Greg Panelli, this is certainly a bottom tier passing game here; even with Brock, in volume and design and priority.

https://castbox.fm/x/33gtE

Yes, Kyle would change the whole offense for Trey but clearly, he's not into that anymore. He loves his Cousins, Garoppolo and Brock-style QB's > Griffin and Lance.

And since he runs this b***h, there's no doubt this is how HE rolls after 7 years.

As to Jimmy back in a spread offense, I actually expect him to become more of a check down QB in that system. Here? We had no check downs options here for his career, nor deep threats so he and Kyle lived in the 7 to 15 yard range, live or die. That's why he's #3 all time in that stat.

What does Danny Gray prove to you? He'll be lucky to steal 100 snaps from Aiyuk at the X. Kyle likes versatility and different skill sets for scheming. Nothing more. None of the guys you listed are consistent deep threats here. Not even close.

Kyle is conservative by nature esp. as a HC where he's responsible for an entire team, not just a YOLO OC trying to get a HCing job. Here are additional examples of that:

https://castbox.fm/x/33TOq

You need to get your head out of the clouds and focus more on who Kyle is here after 7 years. This is his team. His system. His philosophy. And his personnel. He's the one constant in a consistent theme despite the players changing.

Um excuse me for doubting your source, but how does it make sense for Jimmy to have the "3rd highest air yards ever" when he's ranked in the late 20s and 30s or worse his entire career at total completed air yards except for 2019 and 2021 (when he was 17th), and the same in completed air yards per pass attempt except for 2019 (16th) and 2021 (7th, his best year by far).

It's not my source but I expanded upon what he said on the podcast a page back.

I found this too but not sure how this stacks up with other career numbers...or if it's PFF, NextGen, etc. or the specific article.

8.28 yards per air yard attempt:
https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/jimmy-garoppolo-air-yards-per-attempt-career

No short game. No deep game. But when you ride or die in that MOF 7 to 15 yards, that certainly elevates this average stat.

That's not air yards, that's yards per attempt. If Jimmy had 8.28 yards in the air per attempt he'd be about twice the all time record. 14289 career yards divided by 1726 career attempts = 8.279 yards per attempt.

His career air yards per attempt is 5385 air yards divided by EDIT (air yards only goes back to 2018 on PFR, so instead of 1726, this should be 1454) 1454 attempts which is: 3.70 air yards per attempt. This is fairly average or lower. However in 2021 he broke his own trend and had a super high 4.2 air yards per pass attempt, which was 7th best in the NFL.

For comparison, Josh Allen's career completed air yards per attempt is 4.26.

Edited because air yards on pfr only goes back to 2018.

Air yards per attempt, he confirmed. Not completed. But you'll have to take it up with Greg Panelli as he was referencing a circulating article on it and then thought it sounded off and researched it himself and confirmed it.

Edit: Found the resource he was referencing.

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/most-passing-air-yards-per-attempt

Otto Graham - 8.6
Sid Luckman - 8.4
Jimmy Garoppolo - 8.3

Either way, if true, it wouldn't have been on the style many of the Madden generation would have preferred (that average stat was lifted d/t more 20+ explosives).

That is literally yards per attempt. Panelli is simply incorrect. Jimmy's yards per attempt is 8.3 (rounded up). Yards per attempt includes RAC.

It literally says, 'passing air yards per attempt' in the link address itself. That's exactly what GP said on the podcast. Top 3 all time.

For my understanding, isn't that simply the accumulated average distance that ball travels in the air per throw from the LOS? Completed or not (both)? Then it's broken down further to those that were completed also?

So why would that include RAC? That's three separate stats: 1. How far the ball traveled in the air 2. It's a complete air yards attempt and 3. RAC for the receiver after the catch/air yards.

Air yards are defined as the amount of yards the ball traveled in the air on a passing play, from line of scrimmage to contact point. If the quarterback throws the ball at the 25-yard line and the pass is caught at the 20-yard line, the amount of air yards on the pass was five yards.

8.3 is JGs career yards per attempt. This can be confirmed from his PFR page.
I have found statmuse in the past to be a lil suspect, or sus.. am I using this correct? That bleep is sus NC .

Originally posted by CharlieSheen:
This is what happens when you trade everything away for a spot instead of a player. It makes everyone think they have this three 1st rounders love for Trey, when they really just wanted the luxury of scouting the available QBs without getting undercut

I do think Mac was the guy for Kyle and he was the one that had to be talked off that ledge. Kyle has never been into QBs like Trey, but he already got burned once ignoring John's request to look into Mahomes

Once they traded the picks they already lost. It made no sense to use 3 firsts for the mediocrity of Mac Jones, especially when there was a possibility of another "I wanted Mahomes but Kyle didn't" situation that couldve arise again if the Trey hype were real. He didn't want Fields, so there was really only one guy left

They ended up going with Trey, but i don't think the org was as high on him as the trade up suggests

THIS! Every bit of it(the bolded). That's the part people are failing to see as it relates to the posts about him going after his guy and convictions and what not.

As you said, as they said, they traded up to #3 for the position. They did it without knowing who they wanted. They just wanted a QB. The trade up was not necessarily for Trey. It was for a QB

Originally posted by ModestoNiner33:

Originally posted by riverrunzthruit:
"Best trade destinations for Vikings' Danielle Hunter"

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/best-trade-destinations-for-vikings-danielle-hunter/ar-AA1cjiL5

Now we are talking, send TL to Minnie for Hunter.

I like this or too the raiders for Max Crosby.

i see what you did here

Trey will take the majority of first team reps in TC based on OTAs. Darnold looks pretty much the same as he has his entire career. He took a bunch of sacks and was indecisive in 11 on 11. He did showcase some arm talent and will definitely be able to beat some mediocre teams if he is needed on during the season. He's a clear improvement from Josh Johnson.

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by CharlieSheen:
This is what happens when you trade everything away for a spot instead of a player. It makes everyone think they have this three 1st rounders love for Trey, when they really just wanted the luxury of scouting the available QBs without getting undercut

I do think Mac was the guy for Kyle and he was the one that had to be talked off that ledge. Kyle has never been into QBs like Trey, but he already got burned once ignoring John's request to look into Mahomes

Once they traded the picks they already lost. It made no sense to use 3 firsts for the mediocrity of Mac Jones, especially when there was a possibility of another "I wanted Mahomes but Kyle didn't" situation that couldve arise again if the Trey hype were real. He didn't want Fields, so there was really only one guy left

They ended up going with Trey, but i don't think the org was as high on him as the trade up suggests

THIS! Every bit of it(the bolded). That's the part people are failing to see as it relates to the posts about him going after his guy and convictions and what not.

As you said, as they said, they traded up to #3 for the position. They did it without knowing who they wanted. They just wanted a QB. The trade up was not necessarily for Trey. It was for a QB

great post Chuck! this is how it went down, except the TL hype machine got cranked up and ownership gave the nod to TL (for their own reasons which we won't know until KS retires one day and spills the beans) instead of McCorkle

while Fields has the best physical traits, I don't believe he has the processing skills Shanny required so he looked elsewhere

Originally posted by riverrunzthruit:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by CharlieSheen:

This is what happens when you trade everything away for a spot instead of a player. It makes everyone think they have this three 1st rounders love for Trey, when they really just wanted the luxury of scouting the available QBs without getting undercut

I do think Mac was the guy for Kyle and he was the one that had to be talked off that ledge. Kyle has never been into QBs like Trey, but he already got burned once ignoring John's request to look into Mahomes

Once they traded the picks they already lost. It made no sense to use 3 firsts for the mediocrity of Mac Jones, especially when there was a possibility of another "I wanted Mahomes but Kyle didn't" situation that couldve arise again if the Trey hype were real. He didn't want Fields, so there was really only one guy left

They ended up going with Trey, but i don't think the org was as high on him as the trade up suggests

THIS! Every bit of it(the bolded). That's the part people are failing to see as it relates to the posts about him going after his guy and convictions and what not.

As you said, as they said, they traded up to #3 for the position. They did it without knowing who they wanted. They just wanted a QB. The trade up was not necessarily for Trey. It was for a QB

great post Chuck! this is how it went down, except the TL hype machine got cranked up and ownership gave the nod to TL (for their own reasons which we won't know until KS retires one day and spills the beans) instead of McCorkle

while Fields has the best physical traits, I don't believe he has the processing skills Shanny required so he looked elsewhere

I think by the end of it all Kyle was on board too, but his initial plan was probably just sitting back and taking Mac. There was no way he could just say "no thanks" to looking into Trey after what happened with Mahomes, so they decided to trade all the way up and really look into the prospects and have their pick.

Well that backfired with the fans already revolting at the thought of taking Mac for 3 first rounders. Kyle started seeing the problem too. You trade that amount for a Mahomes, and Trey was the only one with a remote possibility of becoming Mahomes, even though there was basically no data on him.

They just f**ked up bad when they traded up for the #3 spot. It forced their hand in who they had to pick imo

Originally posted by CharlieSheen:

Originally posted by riverrunzthruit:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by CharlieSheen:
This is what happens when you trade everything away for a spot instead of a player. It makes everyone think they have this three 1st rounders love for Trey, when they really just wanted the luxury of scouting the available QBs without getting undercut

I do think Mac was the guy for Kyle and he was the one that had to be talked off that ledge. Kyle has never been into QBs like Trey, but he already got burned once ignoring John's request to look into Mahomes

Once they traded the picks they already lost. It made no sense to use 3 firsts for the mediocrity of Mac Jones, especially when there was a possibility of another "I wanted Mahomes but Kyle didn't" situation that couldve arise again if the Trey hype were real. He didn't want Fields, so there was really only one guy left

They ended up going with Trey, but i don't think the org was as high on him as the trade up suggests

THIS! Every bit of it(the bolded). That's the part people are failing to see as it relates to the posts about him going after his guy and convictions and what not.

As you said, as they said, they traded up to #3 for the position. They did it without knowing who they wanted. They just wanted a QB. The trade up was not necessarily for Trey. It was for a QB

great post Chuck! this is how it went down, except the TL hype machine got cranked up and ownership gave the nod to TL (for their own reasons which we won't know until KS retires one day and spills the beans) instead of McCorkle

while Fields has the best physical traits, I don't believe he has the processing skills Shanny required so he looked elsewhere

I think by the end of it all Kyle was on board too, but his initial plan was probably just sitting back and taking Mac. There was no way he could just say "no thanks" to looking into Trey after what happened with Mahomes, so they decided to trade all the way up and really look into the prospects and have their pick.

Well that backfired with the fans already revolting at the thought of taking Mac for 3 first rounders. Kyle started seeing the problem too. You trade that amount for a Mahomes, and Trey was the only one with a remote possibility of becoming Mahomes, even though there was basically no data on him.

They just f**ked up bad when they traded up for the #3 spot. It forced their hand in who they had to pick imo

even if everything you write here is correct, they seemingly land a megastar QB at 3 if they simply pull the correct name out of the hat
I think Fields with his run traits, would be a smash success with KS. CHI led the NFL in rushing last season, you just have zero business doing that, on a 3 win team going nowhere, chasing every game, yet they did it, cuz they had Fields. Put that run ability at QB, in a KS offense, watch the NFL blow the bleep up

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by CharlieSheen:

Originally posted by riverrunzthruit:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by CharlieSheen:

This is what happens when you trade everything away for a spot instead of a player. It makes everyone think they have this three 1st rounders love for Trey, when they really just wanted the luxury of scouting the available QBs without getting undercut

I do think Mac was the guy for Kyle and he was the one that had to be talked off that ledge. Kyle has never been into QBs like Trey, but he already got burned once ignoring John's request to look into Mahomes

Once they traded the picks they already lost. It made no sense to use 3 firsts for the mediocrity of Mac Jones, especially when there was a possibility of another "I wanted Mahomes but Kyle didn't" situation that couldve arise again if the Trey hype were real. He didn't want Fields, so there was really only one guy left

They ended up going with Trey, but i don't think the org was as high on him as the trade up suggests

THIS! Every bit of it(the bolded). That's the part people are failing to see as it relates to the posts about him going after his guy and convictions and what not.

As you said, as they said, they traded up to #3 for the position. They did it without knowing who they wanted. They just wanted a QB. The trade up was not necessarily for Trey. It was for a QB

great post Chuck! this is how it went down, except the TL hype machine got cranked up and ownership gave the nod to TL (for their own reasons which we won't know until KS retires one day and spills the beans) instead of McCorkle

while Fields has the best physical traits, I don't believe he has the processing skills Shanny required so he looked elsewhere

I think by the end of it all Kyle was on board too, but his initial plan was probably just sitting back and taking Mac. There was no way he could just say "no thanks" to looking into Trey after what happened with Mahomes, so they decided to trade all the way up and really look into the prospects and have their pick.

Well that backfired with the fans already revolting at the thought of taking Mac for 3 first rounders. Kyle started seeing the problem too. You trade that amount for a Mahomes, and Trey was the only one with a remote possibility of becoming Mahomes, even though there was basically no data on him.

They just f**ked up bad when they traded up for the #3 spot. It forced their hand in who they had to pick imo

even if everything you write here is correct, they seemingly land a megastar QB at 3 if they simply pull the correct name out of the hat
I think Fields with his run traits, would be a smash success with KS. CHI led the NFL in rushing last season, you just have zero business doing that, on a 3 win team going nowhere, chasing every game, yet they did it, cuz they had Fields. Put that run ability at QB, in a KS offense, watch the NFL blow the bleep up

He must not have seen Fields ever becoming a good passer. If he were interested in leading the league in rushing while losing games he would just make CMC the QB

Originally posted by random49er:
We're in a win-win situation here.

If we win

Originally posted by Silky:

Originally posted by random49er:
We're in a win-win situation here.

If we win

A Win-Win-If-Then Statement? Whatever works.

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by JTB1974:
I really have no idea what Kyle is doing here with Trey. He seems clueless on what's best for him. Under no circumstances he should be competing with Sam Darnold and definetely shouldn't be splitting 1st team reps. Trey needs as many reps as possible. It makes no sense. I understand going with Purdy as the #1 based on what he did last season but how does Trey go from being the starter week 1 in 2022 to competing to be the backup in 2023? It would be different if Trey had alot of games under his belt but he started 4 games total and only got injured early in week 2 last season. Now all of a sudden they won't even give him the backup job. I am trying to tell myself that Kyle is not this dumb and he is just having Trey split reps to ease him back in and not put too much on his arm and letting Sam believe he is competing to be the backup to Purdy but really has no chance.

I mean doesn't Kyle care how this makes him look around the league? This was his draft pick.

It makes him look like a head coach who uses the summer to consider his players and weigh up what they can contribute. It makes him look like a coach who learns from previous seasons, and is making sure that this key position is covered with the best possible depth. Also making sure that if currently injured players do not return, in the short term, to their previous level that the team has options along with reasonable depth. It makes him look like the kind of coach who is open minded regarding his players.

The league, as opposed to a bunch of fans, are well aware that there is no guarantee that draft picks will make the transition. There isn't a head coach around now or in the past who hasn't seen top picks failing. John Lynch and Adam Peters share the blame, to be fair, but looking at the current strength in depth of the roster, I can't imagine that there is much blame. There was a need, they took a gamble. So far it hasn't worked out but who knows what the future holds?

I also don't think it helps that the NFL has the least amount of games and longest offseason compared to the NBA, MLB, NHL, etc. If this situation happened in the NBA for instance, we would atleast have a much higher sample size of play if someone got hurt. Take Zion Williamson for example. He's barely played but we have seen what he can do when completely healthy...and in shape...and not get several women pregnant and tell them you'll marry them and move them to NO without the others knowing keeping all your baby mamas secret. Ok maybe he wasn't the best example but hopefully you know what I mean. I need to see Trey play atleast....8 more games? Half a season. There's just no way to say he's a bust or not

On the 49ers' past belief in Lance: "We were ready to go with Trey. And Trey was going to go through a lot (last) year, and I believe he would have gotten to a level where he did similar stuff (to Purdy). He missed that (chance). Brock came in and did it. Now, I truly believe Trey can go do that. But Brock's already done it. And that's a very good thing for us to have."

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/kyle-shanahan-says-trey-lance-can-still-be-49ers-future-at-qb-but-brock-purdys-already-done-it/amp/

As usual this thread is just a meeting room for dumb opinions and irrational views regarding Trey Lance; dumb because they aren't supported by direct sources, just conjecture and outright lies to support false narratives.

But take heart in knowing that sports writers are just as dishonest, such as in the recent report by Matt Maiocco stating that Brock Purdy is expected to be the starter week 1 based on him being cleared for practice Aug. 20th.

That may well be the case, but it was never an official statement or position released by the team and shouldn't be reported as such.

If it's not an official statement, then it's just unsubstantiated rumors such as the belief that Shanahan wanted Mac Jones over Lance.

Just stick to the facts of direct quotes and the observed actions from the front office and players.

Originally posted by Silky:
I also don't think it helps that the NFL has the least amount of games and longest offseason compared to the NBA, MLB, NHL, etc. If this situation happened in the NBA for instance, we would atleast have a much higher sample size of play if someone got hurt. Take Zion Williamson for example. He's barely played but we have seen what he can do when completely healthy...and in shape...and not get several women pregnant and tell them you'll marry them and move them to NO without the others knowing keeping all your baby mamas secret. Ok maybe he wasn't the best example but hopefully you know what I mean. I need to see Trey play atleast....8 more games? Half a season. There's just no way to say he's a bust or not

Still waiting on Carmazzi to get those 8 games, or 1 game. I'm not saying TL is that, TL already played and played well, vs HOU for instance. Just making a broader point, it's fair to say a guy is a bust, if they don't do enough to get on the field. Now it's too early to say that about TL, but in 5 more years if he has no more games played, he would be a bust, right?

So can he get past Sam? Can he compete with Brock? Can he force the hand of KS and get those starts that we all are talking about? He has to earn the starts, they won't be handed.

Originally posted by SinceXVI:
On the 49ers' past belief in Lance: "We were ready to go with Trey. And Trey was going to go through a lot (last) year, and I believe he would have gotten to a level where he did similar stuff (to Purdy). He missed that (chance). Brock came in and did it. Now, I truly believe Trey can go do that. But Brock's already done it. And that's a very good thing for us to have."

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/kyle-shanahan-says-trey-lance-can-still-be-49ers-future-at-qb-but-brock-purdys-already-done-it/amp/

As usual this thread is just a meeting room for dumb opinions and irrational views regarding Trey Lance; dumb because they aren't supported by direct sources, just conjecture and outright lies to support false narratives.

But take heart in knowing that sports writers are just as dishonest, such as in the recent report by Matt Maiocco stating that Brock Purdy is expected to be the starter week 1 based on him being cleared for practice Aug. 20th.

That may well be the case, but it was never an official statement or position released by the team and shouldn't be reported as such.

If it's not an official statement, then it's just unsubstantiated rumors such as the belief that Shanahan wanted Mac Jones over Lance.

Just stick to the facts of direct quotes and the observed actions from the front office and players.

FO and players, have every incentive not to say the real thing, but to say the thing that won't get them or their mates in hot water. No coach is gonna say, yeah this dude is a bust, even with Zach Wilson they are saying, we still believe in him, etc.

It's like Monahan in PGA tour, look at what he said publicly, vs what he did; his words vs his actions. He said there will never be a merger, before negotiating one. Course, he can't say there will be a merger before it happens, that would have led to a tidal wave of player defections from PGA, and weakened the PGA position in said merger.. take all that player and coach comments with many grains of salt

Originally posted by SinceXVI:

On the 49ers' past belief in Lance: "We were ready to go with Trey. And Trey was going to go through a lot (last) year, and I believe he would have gotten to a level where he did similar stuff (to Purdy). He missed that (chance). Brock came in and did it. Now, I truly believe Trey can go do that. But Brock's already done it. And that's a very good thing for us to have."

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/kyle-shanahan-says-trey-lance-can-still-be-49ers-future-at-qb-but-brock-purdys-already-done-it/amp/

As usual this thread is just a meeting room for dumb opinions and irrational views regarding Trey Lance; dumb because they aren't supported by direct sources, just conjecture and outright lies to support false narratives.

But take heart in knowing that sports writers are just as dishonest, such as in the recent report by Matt Maiocco stating that Brock Purdy is expected to be the starter week 1 based on him being cleared for practice Aug. 20th.

That may well be the case, but it was never an official statement or position released by the team and shouldn't be reported as such.

If it's not an official statement, then it's just unsubstantiated rumors such as the belief that Shanahan wanted Mac Jones over Lance.

Just stick to the facts of direct quotes and the observed actions from the front office and players.

Yes he truly believes Trey can score 30+ ppg, but he has him splitting reps with Darnold

Actions > Words