Dallas Cowboys QB Trey Lance Thread

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by tankle104:
I don't think Brock is going to be rusty.....

Originally posted by tankle104:
will he have some rust to shake off? Sure

Okay. You sound an awful lot like....

Well he said a lot of rust. This is what happens when you shave off a majority of the convo and pick pieces to try and be clever. Lol

there is also a difference between saying someone is "rusty" and someone will have "some rust". Lol

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by tankle104:
I don't think Brock is going to be rusty. This isn't like an ACL injury where you can't do anything for 9 months besides rehab your knee.

he's been doing everything except throwing a football. He will be more than half way done with the throwing rehab by the time training camp even starts. Idk exactly how the final phase of rehab is structured but I'd imagine by the time training camp starts (or at worst a few weeks in), he will be ready for team activities in some capacity.

he's also in Jacksonville working with a QB coach on his mechanics. He's been studying film of himself, footwork, the playbook etc. he's doing almost everything that you usually do, just not team activities.

QBs can get much much better without throwing a football. There are tons of things outside of throwing the football that you can do to become a much better qb. He also has a ton of experience, he isn't your typical inexperienced young qb.

will he have some rust to shake off? Sure. Most likely, but how much? I don't think it'll be much. He's doing tons of drills, studying, working out, around the team/coaches etc. so I'm not worried. If it was an ACL type injury/rehab? Yeah, that would be a huge concern.

i honestly think this glimmer of hope that some have of someone else besides Brock starting week 1 is hilarious. I've never thought anyone but Brock would start week 1. It looks like he will too.

hopefully Darnold/Lance never see the field as starting qb this year and Brock continues his play. If he doesn't, then everything opens up.

Yeah I mean Jimmy who was a 5 yr vet here didn't look rusty at all when he came in and played vs the Broncos after his shoulder injury which was as extensive as Brock's injury

hopefully the best QB ends up playing regardless of past play. Hopefully we have an answer on who's the best guy for SF by the end of the year. Hopefully kyle doesn't decide to go the "safe" route again and we end up falling short (again) in part because of that…along with passing on greater talent (again).

Hopefully whomever is the guy will develop and into that elite level QB.

Jimmy wasn't playing with the team or doing any sort of actives with the team. I think Brock will be. I don't think Brock's going to be missing all of training camp. He may even be there when it starts and participates in a limited capacity.

ar worst, Brock will have a couple weeks (maybe 3-4 min) of training camp/pre season to shake some rust off.

some are acting like he is doing absolutely nothing up until gameday week 1 and going to go in there. Kyle has repeatedly said that they plan on getting back and getting him involved weeks before game 1.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by krizay:
He already has. Don't worry Buzzy, Brock will be ready to continue to dominate

7 games and not everyone was great 😂 man ya'll are so premature.

if Brock doesn't come out playing at that "elite" level like you said he was…you're all gonna dump him so fast.

He'll dust off his Mac Jones Patriots' jersey in no time

Originally posted by tankle104:

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by tankle104:
I don't think Brock is going to be rusty.....

Originally posted by tankle104:
will he have some rust to shake off? Sure

Okay. You sound an awful lot like....

Well he said a lot of rust. This is what happens when you shave off a majority of the convo and pick pieces to try and be clever. Lol

there is also a difference between saying someone is "rusty" and someone will have "some rust". Lol

Alright...but the AI Bot disagrees with you, fwiw....

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
I hope Brock can take up where he left off. i wouldn't say he dominated but he certainly was very good. His numbers and effectiveness were starting to tail off a little in his last couple games so I'm interested in seeing how he does to start the season. Call me cautiously optimistic.

Cautiously optimistic is a good description of where things stand.

Fully agreed, here.

Originally posted by riverrunzthruit:
"Kyle Shanahan: 49ers have not talked to Trey Lance about potential trade."

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2023/06/06/kyle-shanahan-49ers-have-not-talked-to-trey-lance-about-potential-trade/

And why would Shanny talk to him about this anyway? Had to be from Grant Cohn, dumb question

Handwriting is on the wall, BCB is the starter meaning TL has no future with the 9ers.... now the only question is how/when will they part ways with him? Salvage a day 3 pick for him or not execute his option year and let him walk in 2025. At this point I think Shannalynch is trying to save face over the monumental blunder of drafting TL. Trading him for a 5th rounder would be an admission of absolute failure, but letting him walk two years from now allows them to utilize a narrative of "playing their hand" to the fullest... I believe they wanted to move him prior to the draft but nobody in the league wanted him.... lately they have been speaking about him in glowing terms which I believe is a marketing campaign to puff his trade value, and I think they will try to highlight TL in the preseason (as much as TL is able to do this)... trade deadline is October, and QB needy teams get desperate for a solution so it is entirely possible TL is moved up the deadline.

Except you forget the part that we went to our fourth QB last year, and Darnold isn't merely unproven, thus far he's proven to be bad. We need a good back up QB for 2023, and we need a good third string QB for 2023. We're not trading Lance this year unless we get way more compensation than Lance is worth.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:
No, I believe Kyle is conservative. There's a whole podcast on it with Crocker from yesterday. I believe he coaches up his QB's to take the higher % shots and that's evident over time. I believe he likes to be in control of when the deeper shots are taken hence how JD has highlighted those being set up from earlier designs.

He's had 7 years to construct a team exactly how he wants it. Golden and 9ers4eva believe Aiyuk is our consistent deep threat (which is fine but I don't see the objective evidence for that). We've changed QB's. We still have no consistent deep threat, IMHO. What's the one constant? Kyle. He runs this b***h.

QB's change, spray chart stays the same. In fact, the only change we ever saw was with Trey when he became a FB dive specialist where the spray charts actually flipped.

So no, I'm going to focus on the 95% grounded in history and expect the exact same thing this year. A couple calculated set-up deep shots per game by Kyle using different personnel, mixed in with an off schedule shot once in a while by the QB/conditions but living in Kyle's designs under 20 yards the rest of the time.

Brock Purdy vs Jimmy G - Season Passing Chart pic.twitter.com/RQ6HR3qvLY

— Ryan G Hensley (@ryanghensley) December 26, 2022

Literally the only thing those spray charts show is kyle calling plays that their QBs can make. Do you think Jimmy is gonna head to the Raiders and start pushing it downfield a ton? Do you think if Brock got tossed in a Arians offense that he would all of a sudden be leading the league in air yards? Not a chance. That chart shows that those QBs have similar skill sets. That's all.

was kyle calling in breaking routes and screens when RG3 was the QB? Nah. Dude is forming his scheme around the QBs skill set. It's why he couldn't toggle between Jimmy and Lance his rookie yr. Different skill sets require different play calling.

Acting like how he constructed his offense is proof to them not wanting to push the ball downfield is ridiculous. BA is absolutely a deep threat. Go look at Deebo when lance was throwing, PA deep ball TDs. Danny gray deep threat. Even Pettis was regarded as a full field WR. Not just a possession WR. He clearly couldn't do what he was doing in college here all said and done.

Reports are they wanted DK and Deebo. He DRAFTED Lance for what? His ability to throw a two yard slant or a screen pass? f**k no.

Not a chance kyle plays "conservative" if he's got Allen/burrow/Herbert/Mahomes. Talent matters with play calling.

Jimmy? Jimmy has the 3rd highest air yards ever behind Otto Graham and one other per GP. Also per Greg Panelli, this is certainly a bottom tier passing game here; even with Brock, in volume and design and priority.

https://castbox.fm/x/33gtE

Yes, Kyle would change the whole offense for Trey but clearly, he's not into that anymore. He loves his Cousins, Garoppolo and Brock-style QB's > Griffin and Lance.

And since he runs this b***h, there's no doubt this is how HE rolls after 7 years.

As to Jimmy back in a spread offense, I actually expect him to become more of a check down QB in that system. Here? We had no check downs options here for his career, nor deep threats so he and Kyle lived in the 7 to 15 yard range, live or die. That's why he's #3 all time in that stat.

What does Danny Gray prove to you? He'll be lucky to steal 100 snaps from Aiyuk at the X. Kyle likes versatility and different skill sets for scheming. Nothing more. None of the guys you listed are consistent deep threats here. Not even close.

Kyle is conservative by nature esp. as a HC where he's responsible for an entire team, not just a YOLO OC trying to get a HCing job. Here are additional examples of that:

https://castbox.fm/x/33TOq

You need to get your head out of the clouds and focus more on who Kyle is here after 7 years. This is his team. His system. His philosophy. And his personnel. He's the one constant in a consistent theme despite the players changing.

Um excuse me for doubting your source, but how does it make sense for Jimmy to have the "3rd highest air yards ever" when he's ranked in the late 20s and 30s or worse his entire career at total completed air yards except for 2019 and 2021 (when he was 17th), and the same in completed air yards per pass attempt except for 2019 (16th) and 2021 (7th, his best year by far).

It's not my source but I expanded upon what he said on the podcast a page back.

I found this too but not sure how this stacks up with other career numbers...or if it's PFF, NextGen, etc. or the specific article.

8.28 yards per air yard attempt:
https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/jimmy-garoppolo-air-yards-per-attempt-career

No short game. No deep game. But when you ride or die in that MOF 7 to 15 yards, that certainly elevates this average stat.

That's not air yards, that's yards per attempt. If Jimmy had 8.28 yards in the air per attempt he'd be about twice the all time record. 14289 career yards divided by 1726 career attempts = 8.279 yards per attempt.

His career air yards per attempt is 5385 air yards divided by EDIT (air yards only goes back to 2018 on PFR, so instead of 1726, this should be 1454) 1454 attempts which is: 3.70 air yards per attempt. This is fairly average or lower. However in 2021 he broke his own trend and had a super high 4.2 air yards per pass attempt, which was 7th best in the NFL.

For comparison, Josh Allen's career completed air yards per attempt is 4.26.

Edited because air yards on pfr only goes back to 2018.

Air yards per attempt, he confirmed. Not completed. But you'll have to take it up with Greg Panelli as he was referencing a circulating article on it and then thought it sounded off and researched it himself and confirmed it.

Edit: Found the resource he was referencing.

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/most-passing-air-yards-per-attempt

Otto Graham - 8.6
Sid Luckman - 8.4
Jimmy Garoppolo - 8.3

Either way, if true, it wouldn't have been on the style many of the Madden generation would have preferred (that average stat was lifted d/t more 20+ explosives).

That is literally yards per attempt. Panelli is simply incorrect. Jimmy's yards per attempt is 8.3 (rounded up). Yards per attempt includes RAC.

It literally says, 'passing air yards per attempt' in the link address itself. That's exactly what GP said on the podcast. Top 3 all time.

For my understanding, isn't that simply the accumulated average distance that ball travels in the air per throw from the LOS? Completed or not (both)? Then it's broken down further to those that were completed also?

So why would that include RAC? That's three separate stats: 1. How far the ball traveled in the air 2. It's a complete air yards attempt and 3. RAC for the receiver after the catch/air yards.

Air yards are defined as the amount of yards the ball traveled in the air on a passing play, from line of scrimmage to contact point. If the quarterback throws the ball at the 25-yard line and the pass is caught at the 20-yard line, the amount of air yards on the pass was five yards.

Yards per attempt are NOT AIR YARDS. They are NOT. Yards per attempt is the SUM of air yards PLUS yards after the catch, divided by attempts.

As math formulas:

Yards per attempt:

[(Total Air Yards) + (Total Yards After Catch)]/(Total Passing Attempts). Jimmy's value: 8.3

Air Yards Per Attempt:

(Total Air Yards)/(Total Passing Attempts). Jimmy's value: The stat only goes back to 2018 on PFR, and it's between 3 and 4.

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:
No, I believe Kyle is conservative. There's a whole podcast on it with Crocker from yesterday. I believe he coaches up his QB's to take the higher % shots and that's evident over time. I believe he likes to be in control of when the deeper shots are taken hence how JD has highlighted those being set up from earlier designs.

He's had 7 years to construct a team exactly how he wants it. Golden and 9ers4eva believe Aiyuk is our consistent deep threat (which is fine but I don't see the objective evidence for that). We've changed QB's. We still have no consistent deep threat, IMHO. What's the one constant? Kyle. He runs this b***h.

QB's change, spray chart stays the same. In fact, the only change we ever saw was with Trey when he became a FB dive specialist where the spray charts actually flipped.

So no, I'm going to focus on the 95% grounded in history and expect the exact same thing this year. A couple calculated set-up deep shots per game by Kyle using different personnel, mixed in with an off schedule shot once in a while by the QB/conditions but living in Kyle's designs under 20 yards the rest of the time.

Brock Purdy vs Jimmy G - Season Passing Chart pic.twitter.com/RQ6HR3qvLY

— Ryan G Hensley (@ryanghensley) December 26, 2022

Literally the only thing those spray charts show is kyle calling plays that their QBs can make. Do you think Jimmy is gonna head to the Raiders and start pushing it downfield a ton? Do you think if Brock got tossed in a Arians offense that he would all of a sudden be leading the league in air yards? Not a chance. That chart shows that those QBs have similar skill sets. That's all.

was kyle calling in breaking routes and screens when RG3 was the QB? Nah. Dude is forming his scheme around the QBs skill set. It's why he couldn't toggle between Jimmy and Lance his rookie yr. Different skill sets require different play calling.

Acting like how he constructed his offense is proof to them not wanting to push the ball downfield is ridiculous. BA is absolutely a deep threat. Go look at Deebo when lance was throwing, PA deep ball TDs. Danny gray deep threat. Even Pettis was regarded as a full field WR. Not just a possession WR. He clearly couldn't do what he was doing in college here all said and done.

Reports are they wanted DK and Deebo. He DRAFTED Lance for what? His ability to throw a two yard slant or a screen pass? f**k no.

Not a chance kyle plays "conservative" if he's got Allen/burrow/Herbert/Mahomes. Talent matters with play calling.

Jimmy? Jimmy has the 3rd highest air yards ever behind Otto Graham and one other per GP. Also per Greg Panelli, this is certainly a bottom tier passing game here; even with Brock, in volume and design and priority.

https://castbox.fm/x/33gtE

Yes, Kyle would change the whole offense for Trey but clearly, he's not into that anymore. He loves his Cousins, Garoppolo and Brock-style QB's > Griffin and Lance.

And since he runs this b***h, there's no doubt this is how HE rolls after 7 years.

As to Jimmy back in a spread offense, I actually expect him to become more of a check down QB in that system. Here? We had no check downs options here for his career, nor deep threats so he and Kyle lived in the 7 to 15 yard range, live or die. That's why he's #3 all time in that stat.

What does Danny Gray prove to you? He'll be lucky to steal 100 snaps from Aiyuk at the X. Kyle likes versatility and different skill sets for scheming. Nothing more. None of the guys you listed are consistent deep threats here. Not even close.

Kyle is conservative by nature esp. as a HC where he's responsible for an entire team, not just a YOLO OC trying to get a HCing job. Here are additional examples of that:

https://castbox.fm/x/33TOq

You need to get your head out of the clouds and focus more on who Kyle is here after 7 years. This is his team. His system. His philosophy. And his personnel. He's the one constant in a consistent theme despite the players changing.

Um excuse me for doubting your source, but how does it make sense for Jimmy to have the "3rd highest air yards ever" when he's ranked in the late 20s and 30s or worse his entire career at total completed air yards except for 2019 and 2021 (when he was 17th), and the same in completed air yards per pass attempt except for 2019 (16th) and 2021 (7th, his best year by far).

It's not my source but I expanded upon what he said on the podcast a page back.

I found this too but not sure how this stacks up with other career numbers...or if it's PFF, NextGen, etc. or the specific article.

8.28 yards per air yard attempt:
https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/jimmy-garoppolo-air-yards-per-attempt-career

No short game. No deep game. But when you ride or die in that MOF 7 to 15 yards, that certainly elevates this average stat.

That's not air yards, that's yards per attempt. If Jimmy had 8.28 yards in the air per attempt he'd be about twice the all time record. 14289 career yards divided by 1726 career attempts = 8.279 yards per attempt.

His career air yards per attempt is 5385 air yards divided by EDIT (air yards only goes back to 2018 on PFR, so instead of 1726, this should be 1454) 1454 attempts which is: 3.70 air yards per attempt. This is fairly average or lower. However in 2021 he broke his own trend and had a super high 4.2 air yards per pass attempt, which was 7th best in the NFL.

For comparison, Josh Allen's career completed air yards per attempt is 4.26.

Edited because air yards on pfr only goes back to 2018.

Air yards per attempt, he confirmed. Not completed. But you'll have to take it up with Greg Panelli as he was referencing a circulating article on it and then thought it sounded off and researched it himself and confirmed it.

Edit: Found the resource he was referencing.

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/most-passing-air-yards-per-attempt

Otto Graham - 8.6
Sid Luckman - 8.4
Jimmy Garoppolo - 8.3

Either way, if true, it wouldn't have been on the style many of the Madden generation would have preferred (that average stat was lifted d/t more 20+ explosives).

That is literally yards per attempt. Panelli is simply incorrect. Jimmy's yards per attempt is 8.3 (rounded up). Yards per attempt includes RAC.

It literally says, 'passing air yards per attempt' in the link address itself. That's exactly what GP said on the podcast. Top 3 all time.

For my understanding, isn't that simply the accumulated average distance that ball travels in the air per throw from the LOS? Completed or not (both)? Then it's broken down further to those that were completed also?

So why would that include RAC? That's three separate stats: 1. How far the ball traveled in the air 2. It's a complete air yards attempt and 3. RAC for the receiver after the catch/air yards.

Air yards are defined as the amount of yards the ball traveled in the air on a passing play, from line of scrimmage to contact point. If the quarterback throws the ball at the 25-yard line and the pass is caught at the 20-yard line, the amount of air yards on the pass was five yards.

Yards per attempt are NOT AIR YARDS. They are NOT. Yards per attempt is the SUM of air yards PLUS yards after the catch, divided by attempts.

As math formulas:

Yards per attempt:

[(Total Air Yards) + (Total Yards After Catch)]/(Total Passing Attempts). Jimmy's value: 8.3

Air Yards Per Attempt:

(Total Air Yards)/(Total Passing Attempts). Jimmy's value: The stat only goes back to 2018 on PFR, and it's between 3 and 4.

The Home page says:

INTERPRETED AS: most passing air passing yards with a minimum of 1500 passing attempts by a player per attempt.

That sounds like an air yard per attempt stat to me. Maybe I'm not getting it???

Either way you say that stat only goes back a few years? So how is Otto Graham #1?

And is this good company?

Otto Graham - 8.6
Sid Luckman - 8.4
Jimmy Garoppolo - 8.3
Norm Van Brocklin - 8.2
Deshaun Watson - 8.2
Patrick Mahomes - 8.1
Steve Young - 8.0
Kurt Warner - 7.9
Tony Romo - 7.9
Ed Brown - 7.9
Bart Starr - 7.8

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:
No, I believe Kyle is conservative. There's a whole podcast on it with Crocker from yesterday. I believe he coaches up his QB's to take the higher % shots and that's evident over time. I believe he likes to be in control of when the deeper shots are taken hence how JD has highlighted those being set up from earlier designs.

He's had 7 years to construct a team exactly how he wants it. Golden and 9ers4eva believe Aiyuk is our consistent deep threat (which is fine but I don't see the objective evidence for that). We've changed QB's. We still have no consistent deep threat, IMHO. What's the one constant? Kyle. He runs this b***h.

QB's change, spray chart stays the same. In fact, the only change we ever saw was with Trey when he became a FB dive specialist where the spray charts actually flipped.

So no, I'm going to focus on the 95% grounded in history and expect the exact same thing this year. A couple calculated set-up deep shots per game by Kyle using different personnel, mixed in with an off schedule shot once in a while by the QB/conditions but living in Kyle's designs under 20 yards the rest of the time.

Brock Purdy vs Jimmy G - Season Passing Chart pic.twitter.com/RQ6HR3qvLY

— Ryan G Hensley (@ryanghensley) December 26, 2022

Literally the only thing those spray charts show is kyle calling plays that their QBs can make. Do you think Jimmy is gonna head to the Raiders and start pushing it downfield a ton? Do you think if Brock got tossed in a Arians offense that he would all of a sudden be leading the league in air yards? Not a chance. That chart shows that those QBs have similar skill sets. That's all.

was kyle calling in breaking routes and screens when RG3 was the QB? Nah. Dude is forming his scheme around the QBs skill set. It's why he couldn't toggle between Jimmy and Lance his rookie yr. Different skill sets require different play calling.

Acting like how he constructed his offense is proof to them not wanting to push the ball downfield is ridiculous. BA is absolutely a deep threat. Go look at Deebo when lance was throwing, PA deep ball TDs. Danny gray deep threat. Even Pettis was regarded as a full field WR. Not just a possession WR. He clearly couldn't do what he was doing in college here all said and done.

Reports are they wanted DK and Deebo. He DRAFTED Lance for what? His ability to throw a two yard slant or a screen pass? f**k no.

Not a chance kyle plays "conservative" if he's got Allen/burrow/Herbert/Mahomes. Talent matters with play calling.

Jimmy? Jimmy has the 3rd highest air yards ever behind Otto Graham and one other per GP. Also per Greg Panelli, this is certainly a bottom tier passing game here; even with Brock, in volume and design and priority.

https://castbox.fm/x/33gtE

Yes, Kyle would change the whole offense for Trey but clearly, he's not into that anymore. He loves his Cousins, Garoppolo and Brock-style QB's > Griffin and Lance.

And since he runs this b***h, there's no doubt this is how HE rolls after 7 years.

As to Jimmy back in a spread offense, I actually expect him to become more of a check down QB in that system. Here? We had no check downs options here for his career, nor deep threats so he and Kyle lived in the 7 to 15 yard range, live or die. That's why he's #3 all time in that stat.

What does Danny Gray prove to you? He'll be lucky to steal 100 snaps from Aiyuk at the X. Kyle likes versatility and different skill sets for scheming. Nothing more. None of the guys you listed are consistent deep threats here. Not even close.

Kyle is conservative by nature esp. as a HC where he's responsible for an entire team, not just a YOLO OC trying to get a HCing job. Here are additional examples of that:

https://castbox.fm/x/33TOq

You need to get your head out of the clouds and focus more on who Kyle is here after 7 years. This is his team. His system. His philosophy. And his personnel. He's the one constant in a consistent theme despite the players changing.

Um excuse me for doubting your source, but how does it make sense for Jimmy to have the "3rd highest air yards ever" when he's ranked in the late 20s and 30s or worse his entire career at total completed air yards except for 2019 and 2021 (when he was 17th), and the same in completed air yards per pass attempt except for 2019 (16th) and 2021 (7th, his best year by far).

It's not my source but I expanded upon what he said on the podcast a page back.

I found this too but not sure how this stacks up with other career numbers...or if it's PFF, NextGen, etc. or the specific article.

8.28 yards per air yard attempt:
https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/jimmy-garoppolo-air-yards-per-attempt-career

No short game. No deep game. But when you ride or die in that MOF 7 to 15 yards, that certainly elevates this average stat.

That's not air yards, that's yards per attempt. If Jimmy had 8.28 yards in the air per attempt he'd be about twice the all time record. 14289 career yards divided by 1726 career attempts = 8.279 yards per attempt.

His career air yards per attempt is 5385 air yards divided by EDIT (air yards only goes back to 2018 on PFR, so instead of 1726, this should be 1454) 1454 attempts which is: 3.70 air yards per attempt. This is fairly average or lower. However in 2021 he broke his own trend and had a super high 4.2 air yards per pass attempt, which was 7th best in the NFL.

For comparison, Josh Allen's career completed air yards per attempt is 4.26.

Edited because air yards on pfr only goes back to 2018.

Air yards per attempt, he confirmed. Not completed. But you'll have to take it up with Greg Panelli as he was referencing a circulating article on it and then thought it sounded off and researched it himself and confirmed it.

Edit: Found the resource he was referencing.

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/most-passing-air-yards-per-attempt

Otto Graham - 8.6
Sid Luckman - 8.4
Jimmy Garoppolo - 8.3

Either way, if true, it wouldn't have been on the style many of the Madden generation would have preferred (that average stat was lifted d/t more 20+ explosives).

That is literally yards per attempt. Panelli is simply incorrect. Jimmy's yards per attempt is 8.3 (rounded up). Yards per attempt includes RAC.

It literally says, 'passing air yards per attempt' in the link address itself. That's exactly what GP said on the podcast. Top 3 all time.

For my understanding, isn't that simply the accumulated average distance that ball travels in the air per throw from the LOS? Completed or not (both)? Then it's broken down further to those that were completed also?

So why would that include RAC? That's three separate stats: 1. How far the ball traveled in the air 2. It's a complete air yards attempt and 3. RAC for the receiver after the catch/air yards.

Air yards are defined as the amount of yards the ball traveled in the air on a passing play, from line of scrimmage to contact point. If the quarterback throws the ball at the 25-yard line and the pass is caught at the 20-yard line, the amount of air yards on the pass was five yards.

Yards per attempt are NOT AIR YARDS. They are NOT. Yards per attempt is the SUM of air yards PLUS yards after the catch, divided by attempts.

As math formulas:

Yards per attempt:

[(Total Air Yards) + (Total Yards After Catch)]/(Total Passing Attempts). Jimmy's value: 8.3

Air Yards Per Attempt:

(Total Air Yards)/(Total Passing Attempts). Jimmy's value: The stat only goes back to 2018 on PFR, and it's between 3 and 4.

The Home page says:

INTERPRETED AS: most passing air passing yards with a minimum of 1500 passing attempts by a player per attempt.

That sounds like an air yard per attempt stat to me. Maybe I'm not getting it???

Either way you say that stat only goes back a few years? So how is Otto Graham #1?

And is this good company?

Otto Graham - 8.6
Sid Luckman - 8.4
Jimmy Garoppolo - 8.3
Norm Van Brocklin - 8.2
Deshaun Watson - 8.2
Patrick Mahomes - 8.1
Steve Young - 8.0
Kurt Warner - 7.9
Tony Romo - 7.9
Ed Brown - 7.9
Bart Starr - 7.8

The reason Otto Graham is number one is because... those are not actually air yards.

Your "Home Page" website, whatever it is, is incorrect. Look, I'll make a diagram for you from Pro Football Reference:



Edited to come across as less exasperated because that can be interpreted as hostility.

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:
No, I believe Kyle is conservative. There's a whole podcast on it with Crocker from yesterday. I believe he coaches up his QB's to take the higher % shots and that's evident over time. I believe he likes to be in control of when the deeper shots are taken hence how JD has highlighted those being set up from earlier designs.

He's had 7 years to construct a team exactly how he wants it. Golden and 9ers4eva believe Aiyuk is our consistent deep threat (which is fine but I don't see the objective evidence for that). We've changed QB's. We still have no consistent deep threat, IMHO. What's the one constant? Kyle. He runs this b***h.

QB's change, spray chart stays the same. In fact, the only change we ever saw was with Trey when he became a FB dive specialist where the spray charts actually flipped.

So no, I'm going to focus on the 95% grounded in history and expect the exact same thing this year. A couple calculated set-up deep shots per game by Kyle using different personnel, mixed in with an off schedule shot once in a while by the QB/conditions but living in Kyle's designs under 20 yards the rest of the time.

Brock Purdy vs Jimmy G - Season Passing Chart pic.twitter.com/RQ6HR3qvLY

— Ryan G Hensley (@ryanghensley) December 26, 2022

Literally the only thing those spray charts show is kyle calling plays that their QBs can make. Do you think Jimmy is gonna head to the Raiders and start pushing it downfield a ton? Do you think if Brock got tossed in a Arians offense that he would all of a sudden be leading the league in air yards? Not a chance. That chart shows that those QBs have similar skill sets. That's all.

was kyle calling in breaking routes and screens when RG3 was the QB? Nah. Dude is forming his scheme around the QBs skill set. It's why he couldn't toggle between Jimmy and Lance his rookie yr. Different skill sets require different play calling.

Acting like how he constructed his offense is proof to them not wanting to push the ball downfield is ridiculous. BA is absolutely a deep threat. Go look at Deebo when lance was throwing, PA deep ball TDs. Danny gray deep threat. Even Pettis was regarded as a full field WR. Not just a possession WR. He clearly couldn't do what he was doing in college here all said and done.

Reports are they wanted DK and Deebo. He DRAFTED Lance for what? His ability to throw a two yard slant or a screen pass? f**k no.

Not a chance kyle plays "conservative" if he's got Allen/burrow/Herbert/Mahomes. Talent matters with play calling.

Jimmy? Jimmy has the 3rd highest air yards ever behind Otto Graham and one other per GP. Also per Greg Panelli, this is certainly a bottom tier passing game here; even with Brock, in volume and design and priority.

https://castbox.fm/x/33gtE

Yes, Kyle would change the whole offense for Trey but clearly, he's not into that anymore. He loves his Cousins, Garoppolo and Brock-style QB's > Griffin and Lance.

And since he runs this b***h, there's no doubt this is how HE rolls after 7 years.

As to Jimmy back in a spread offense, I actually expect him to become more of a check down QB in that system. Here? We had no check downs options here for his career, nor deep threats so he and Kyle lived in the 7 to 15 yard range, live or die. That's why he's #3 all time in that stat.

What does Danny Gray prove to you? He'll be lucky to steal 100 snaps from Aiyuk at the X. Kyle likes versatility and different skill sets for scheming. Nothing more. None of the guys you listed are consistent deep threats here. Not even close.

Kyle is conservative by nature esp. as a HC where he's responsible for an entire team, not just a YOLO OC trying to get a HCing job. Here are additional examples of that:

https://castbox.fm/x/33TOq

You need to get your head out of the clouds and focus more on who Kyle is here after 7 years. This is his team. His system. His philosophy. And his personnel. He's the one constant in a consistent theme despite the players changing.

Um excuse me for doubting your source, but how does it make sense for Jimmy to have the "3rd highest air yards ever" when he's ranked in the late 20s and 30s or worse his entire career at total completed air yards except for 2019 and 2021 (when he was 17th), and the same in completed air yards per pass attempt except for 2019 (16th) and 2021 (7th, his best year by far).

It's not my source but I expanded upon what he said on the podcast a page back.

I found this too but not sure how this stacks up with other career numbers...or if it's PFF, NextGen, etc. or the specific article.

8.28 yards per air yard attempt:
https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/jimmy-garoppolo-air-yards-per-attempt-career

No short game. No deep game. But when you ride or die in that MOF 7 to 15 yards, that certainly elevates this average stat.

That's not air yards, that's yards per attempt. If Jimmy had 8.28 yards in the air per attempt he'd be about twice the all time record. 14289 career yards divided by 1726 career attempts = 8.279 yards per attempt.

His career air yards per attempt is 5385 air yards divided by EDIT (air yards only goes back to 2018 on PFR, so instead of 1726, this should be 1454) 1454 attempts which is: 3.70 air yards per attempt. This is fairly average or lower. However in 2021 he broke his own trend and had a super high 4.2 air yards per pass attempt, which was 7th best in the NFL.

For comparison, Josh Allen's career completed air yards per attempt is 4.26.

Edited because air yards on pfr only goes back to 2018.

Air yards per attempt, he confirmed. Not completed. But you'll have to take it up with Greg Panelli as he was referencing a circulating article on it and then thought it sounded off and researched it himself and confirmed it.

Edit: Found the resource he was referencing.

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/most-passing-air-yards-per-attempt

Otto Graham - 8.6
Sid Luckman - 8.4
Jimmy Garoppolo - 8.3

Either way, if true, it wouldn't have been on the style many of the Madden generation would have preferred (that average stat was lifted d/t more 20+ explosives).

That is literally yards per attempt. Panelli is simply incorrect. Jimmy's yards per attempt is 8.3 (rounded up). Yards per attempt includes RAC.

It literally says, 'passing air yards per attempt' in the link address itself. That's exactly what GP said on the podcast. Top 3 all time.

For my understanding, isn't that simply the accumulated average distance that ball travels in the air per throw from the LOS? Completed or not (both)? Then it's broken down further to those that were completed also?

So why would that include RAC? That's three separate stats: 1. How far the ball traveled in the air 2. It's a complete air yards attempt and 3. RAC for the receiver after the catch/air yards.

Air yards are defined as the amount of yards the ball traveled in the air on a passing play, from line of scrimmage to contact point. If the quarterback throws the ball at the 25-yard line and the pass is caught at the 20-yard line, the amount of air yards on the pass was five yards.

Yards per attempt are NOT AIR YARDS. They are NOT. Yards per attempt is the SUM of air yards PLUS yards after the catch, divided by attempts.

As math formulas:

Yards per attempt:

[(Total Air Yards) + (Total Yards After Catch)]/(Total Passing Attempts). Jimmy's value: 8.3

Air Yards Per Attempt:

(Total Air Yards)/(Total Passing Attempts). Jimmy's value: The stat only goes back to 2018 on PFR, and it's between 3 and 4.

The Home page says:

INTERPRETED AS: most passing air passing yards with a minimum of 1500 passing attempts by a player per attempt.

That sounds like an air yard per attempt stat to me. Maybe I'm not getting it???

Either way you say that stat only goes back a few years? So how is Otto Graham #1?

And is this good company?

Otto Graham - 8.6
Sid Luckman - 8.4
Jimmy Garoppolo - 8.3
Norm Van Brocklin - 8.2
Deshaun Watson - 8.2
Patrick Mahomes - 8.1
Steve Young - 8.0
Kurt Warner - 7.9
Tony Romo - 7.9
Ed Brown - 7.9
Bart Starr - 7.8

The reason Otto Graham is number one is because... those are not actually air yards.

Your "Home Page" website, whatever it is, is incorrect. Look, I'll make a diagram for you from Pro Football Reference:



Edited to come across as less exasperated because that can be interpreted as hostility.

Gotcha. I was just referencing the original site (and their definition) from the article that was referenced in the pod.

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/most-passing-air-yards-per-attempt

Appreciate your explanation.

It sounds like they need to correct their operational definition.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:
No, I believe Kyle is conservative. There's a whole podcast on it with Crocker from yesterday. I believe he coaches up his QB's to take the higher % shots and that's evident over time. I believe he likes to be in control of when the deeper shots are taken hence how JD has highlighted those being set up from earlier designs.

He's had 7 years to construct a team exactly how he wants it. Golden and 9ers4eva believe Aiyuk is our consistent deep threat (which is fine but I don't see the objective evidence for that). We've changed QB's. We still have no consistent deep threat, IMHO. What's the one constant? Kyle. He runs this b***h.

QB's change, spray chart stays the same. In fact, the only change we ever saw was with Trey when he became a FB dive specialist where the spray charts actually flipped.

So no, I'm going to focus on the 95% grounded in history and expect the exact same thing this year. A couple calculated set-up deep shots per game by Kyle using different personnel, mixed in with an off schedule shot once in a while by the QB/conditions but living in Kyle's designs under 20 yards the rest of the time.

Brock Purdy vs Jimmy G - Season Passing Chart pic.twitter.com/RQ6HR3qvLY

— Ryan G Hensley (@ryanghensley) December 26, 2022

Literally the only thing those spray charts show is kyle calling plays that their QBs can make. Do you think Jimmy is gonna head to the Raiders and start pushing it downfield a ton? Do you think if Brock got tossed in a Arians offense that he would all of a sudden be leading the league in air yards? Not a chance. That chart shows that those QBs have similar skill sets. That's all.

was kyle calling in breaking routes and screens when RG3 was the QB? Nah. Dude is forming his scheme around the QBs skill set. It's why he couldn't toggle between Jimmy and Lance his rookie yr. Different skill sets require different play calling.

Acting like how he constructed his offense is proof to them not wanting to push the ball downfield is ridiculous. BA is absolutely a deep threat. Go look at Deebo when lance was throwing, PA deep ball TDs. Danny gray deep threat. Even Pettis was regarded as a full field WR. Not just a possession WR. He clearly couldn't do what he was doing in college here all said and done.

Reports are they wanted DK and Deebo. He DRAFTED Lance for what? His ability to throw a two yard slant or a screen pass? f**k no.

Not a chance kyle plays "conservative" if he's got Allen/burrow/Herbert/Mahomes. Talent matters with play calling.

Jimmy? Jimmy has the 3rd highest air yards ever behind Otto Graham and one other per GP. Also per Greg Panelli, this is certainly a bottom tier passing game here; even with Brock, in volume and design and priority.

https://castbox.fm/x/33gtE

Yes, Kyle would change the whole offense for Trey but clearly, he's not into that anymore. He loves his Cousins, Garoppolo and Brock-style QB's > Griffin and Lance.

And since he runs this b***h, there's no doubt this is how HE rolls after 7 years.

As to Jimmy back in a spread offense, I actually expect him to become more of a check down QB in that system. Here? We had no check downs options here for his career, nor deep threats so he and Kyle lived in the 7 to 15 yard range, live or die. That's why he's #3 all time in that stat.

What does Danny Gray prove to you? He'll be lucky to steal 100 snaps from Aiyuk at the X. Kyle likes versatility and different skill sets for scheming. Nothing more. None of the guys you listed are consistent deep threats here. Not even close.

Kyle is conservative by nature esp. as a HC where he's responsible for an entire team, not just a YOLO OC trying to get a HCing job. Here are additional examples of that:

https://castbox.fm/x/33TOq

You need to get your head out of the clouds and focus more on who Kyle is here after 7 years. This is his team. His system. His philosophy. And his personnel. He's the one constant in a consistent theme despite the players changing.

Um excuse me for doubting your source, but how does it make sense for Jimmy to have the "3rd highest air yards ever" when he's ranked in the late 20s and 30s or worse his entire career at total completed air yards except for 2019 and 2021 (when he was 17th), and the same in completed air yards per pass attempt except for 2019 (16th) and 2021 (7th, his best year by far).

It's not my source but I expanded upon what he said on the podcast a page back.

I found this too but not sure how this stacks up with other career numbers...or if it's PFF, NextGen, etc. or the specific article.

8.28 yards per air yard attempt:
https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/jimmy-garoppolo-air-yards-per-attempt-career

No short game. No deep game. But when you ride or die in that MOF 7 to 15 yards, that certainly elevates this average stat.

That's not air yards, that's yards per attempt. If Jimmy had 8.28 yards in the air per attempt he'd be about twice the all time record. 14289 career yards divided by 1726 career attempts = 8.279 yards per attempt.

His career air yards per attempt is 5385 air yards divided by EDIT (air yards only goes back to 2018 on PFR, so instead of 1726, this should be 1454) 1454 attempts which is: 3.70 air yards per attempt. This is fairly average or lower. However in 2021 he broke his own trend and had a super high 4.2 air yards per pass attempt, which was 7th best in the NFL.

For comparison, Josh Allen's career completed air yards per attempt is 4.26.

Edited because air yards on pfr only goes back to 2018.

Air yards per attempt, he confirmed. Not completed. But you'll have to take it up with Greg Panelli as he was referencing a circulating article on it and then thought it sounded off and researched it himself and confirmed it.

Edit: Found the resource he was referencing.

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/most-passing-air-yards-per-attempt

Otto Graham - 8.6
Sid Luckman - 8.4
Jimmy Garoppolo - 8.3

Either way, if true, it wouldn't have been on the style many of the Madden generation would have preferred (that average stat was lifted d/t more 20+ explosives).

That is literally yards per attempt. Panelli is simply incorrect. Jimmy's yards per attempt is 8.3 (rounded up). Yards per attempt includes RAC.

It literally says, 'passing air yards per attempt' in the link address itself. That's exactly what GP said on the podcast. Top 3 all time.

For my understanding, isn't that simply the accumulated average distance that ball travels in the air per throw from the LOS? Completed or not (both)? Then it's broken down further to those that were completed also?

So why would that include RAC? That's three separate stats: 1. How far the ball traveled in the air 2. It's a complete air yards attempt and 3. RAC for the receiver after the catch/air yards.

Air yards are defined as the amount of yards the ball traveled in the air on a passing play, from line of scrimmage to contact point. If the quarterback throws the ball at the 25-yard line and the pass is caught at the 20-yard line, the amount of air yards on the pass was five yards.

Yards per attempt are NOT AIR YARDS. They are NOT. Yards per attempt is the SUM of air yards PLUS yards after the catch, divided by attempts.

As math formulas:

Yards per attempt:

[(Total Air Yards) + (Total Yards After Catch)]/(Total Passing Attempts). Jimmy's value: 8.3

Air Yards Per Attempt:

(Total Air Yards)/(Total Passing Attempts). Jimmy's value: The stat only goes back to 2018 on PFR, and it's between 3 and 4.

The Home page says:

INTERPRETED AS: most passing air passing yards with a minimum of 1500 passing attempts by a player per attempt.

That sounds like an air yard per attempt stat to me. Maybe I'm not getting it???

Either way you say that stat only goes back a few years? So how is Otto Graham #1?

And is this good company?

Otto Graham - 8.6
Sid Luckman - 8.4
Jimmy Garoppolo - 8.3
Norm Van Brocklin - 8.2
Deshaun Watson - 8.2
Patrick Mahomes - 8.1
Steve Young - 8.0
Kurt Warner - 7.9
Tony Romo - 7.9
Ed Brown - 7.9
Bart Starr - 7.8

The reason Otto Graham is number one is because... those are not actually air yards.

Your "Home Page" website, whatever it is, is incorrect. Look, I'll make a diagram for you from Pro Football Reference:



Edited to come across as less exasperated because that can be interpreted as hostility.

Gotcha. I was just referencing the original site (and their definition) from the article that was referenced in the pod.

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/most-passing-air-yards-per-attempt

Appreciate your explanation.

It sounds like they need to correct their operational definition.

Yeah Statmuse doesn't seem to recognize the difference. Usually you see "air yards" written as "completed air yards," but that didn't work either when searching. They probably just don't have it because it's an advanced stat. At least that's my guess anyway.

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:
No, I believe Kyle is conservative. There's a whole podcast on it with Crocker from yesterday. I believe he coaches up his QB's to take the higher % shots and that's evident over time. I believe he likes to be in control of when the deeper shots are taken hence how JD has highlighted those being set up from earlier designs.

He's had 7 years to construct a team exactly how he wants it. Golden and 9ers4eva believe Aiyuk is our consistent deep threat (which is fine but I don't see the objective evidence for that). We've changed QB's. We still have no consistent deep threat, IMHO. What's the one constant? Kyle. He runs this b***h.

QB's change, spray chart stays the same. In fact, the only change we ever saw was with Trey when he became a FB dive specialist where the spray charts actually flipped.

So no, I'm going to focus on the 95% grounded in history and expect the exact same thing this year. A couple calculated set-up deep shots per game by Kyle using different personnel, mixed in with an off schedule shot once in a while by the QB/conditions but living in Kyle's designs under 20 yards the rest of the time.

Brock Purdy vs Jimmy G - Season Passing Chart pic.twitter.com/RQ6HR3qvLY

— Ryan G Hensley (@ryanghensley) December 26, 2022

Literally the only thing those spray charts show is kyle calling plays that their QBs can make. Do you think Jimmy is gonna head to the Raiders and start pushing it downfield a ton? Do you think if Brock got tossed in a Arians offense that he would all of a sudden be leading the league in air yards? Not a chance. That chart shows that those QBs have similar skill sets. That's all.

was kyle calling in breaking routes and screens when RG3 was the QB? Nah. Dude is forming his scheme around the QBs skill set. It's why he couldn't toggle between Jimmy and Lance his rookie yr. Different skill sets require different play calling.

Acting like how he constructed his offense is proof to them not wanting to push the ball downfield is ridiculous. BA is absolutely a deep threat. Go look at Deebo when lance was throwing, PA deep ball TDs. Danny gray deep threat. Even Pettis was regarded as a full field WR. Not just a possession WR. He clearly couldn't do what he was doing in college here all said and done.

Reports are they wanted DK and Deebo. He DRAFTED Lance for what? His ability to throw a two yard slant or a screen pass? f**k no.

Not a chance kyle plays "conservative" if he's got Allen/burrow/Herbert/Mahomes. Talent matters with play calling.

Jimmy? Jimmy has the 3rd highest air yards ever behind Otto Graham and one other per GP. Also per Greg Panelli, this is certainly a bottom tier passing game here; even with Brock, in volume and design and priority.

https://castbox.fm/x/33gtE

Yes, Kyle would change the whole offense for Trey but clearly, he's not into that anymore. He loves his Cousins, Garoppolo and Brock-style QB's > Griffin and Lance.

And since he runs this b***h, there's no doubt this is how HE rolls after 7 years.

As to Jimmy back in a spread offense, I actually expect him to become more of a check down QB in that system. Here? We had no check downs options here for his career, nor deep threats so he and Kyle lived in the 7 to 15 yard range, live or die. That's why he's #3 all time in that stat.

What does Danny Gray prove to you? He'll be lucky to steal 100 snaps from Aiyuk at the X. Kyle likes versatility and different skill sets for scheming. Nothing more. None of the guys you listed are consistent deep threats here. Not even close.

Kyle is conservative by nature esp. as a HC where he's responsible for an entire team, not just a YOLO OC trying to get a HCing job. Here are additional examples of that:

https://castbox.fm/x/33TOq

You need to get your head out of the clouds and focus more on who Kyle is here after 7 years. This is his team. His system. His philosophy. And his personnel. He's the one constant in a consistent theme despite the players changing.

Um excuse me for doubting your source, but how does it make sense for Jimmy to have the "3rd highest air yards ever" when he's ranked in the late 20s and 30s or worse his entire career at total completed air yards except for 2019 and 2021 (when he was 17th), and the same in completed air yards per pass attempt except for 2019 (16th) and 2021 (7th, his best year by far).

It's not my source but I expanded upon what he said on the podcast a page back.

I found this too but not sure how this stacks up with other career numbers...or if it's PFF, NextGen, etc. or the specific article.

8.28 yards per air yard attempt:
https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/jimmy-garoppolo-air-yards-per-attempt-career

No short game. No deep game. But when you ride or die in that MOF 7 to 15 yards, that certainly elevates this average stat.

That's not air yards, that's yards per attempt. If Jimmy had 8.28 yards in the air per attempt he'd be about twice the all time record. 14289 career yards divided by 1726 career attempts = 8.279 yards per attempt.

His career air yards per attempt is 5385 air yards divided by EDIT (air yards only goes back to 2018 on PFR, so instead of 1726, this should be 1454) 1454 attempts which is: 3.70 air yards per attempt. This is fairly average or lower. However in 2021 he broke his own trend and had a super high 4.2 air yards per pass attempt, which was 7th best in the NFL.

For comparison, Josh Allen's career completed air yards per attempt is 4.26.

Edited because air yards on pfr only goes back to 2018.

Air yards per attempt, he confirmed. Not completed. But you'll have to take it up with Greg Panelli as he was referencing a circulating article on it and then thought it sounded off and researched it himself and confirmed it.

Edit: Found the resource he was referencing.

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/most-passing-air-yards-per-attempt

Otto Graham - 8.6
Sid Luckman - 8.4
Jimmy Garoppolo - 8.3

Either way, if true, it wouldn't have been on the style many of the Madden generation would have preferred (that average stat was lifted d/t more 20+ explosives).

That is literally yards per attempt. Panelli is simply incorrect. Jimmy's yards per attempt is 8.3 (rounded up). Yards per attempt includes RAC.

It literally says, 'passing air yards per attempt' in the link address itself. That's exactly what GP said on the podcast. Top 3 all time.

For my understanding, isn't that simply the accumulated average distance that ball travels in the air per throw from the LOS? Completed or not (both)? Then it's broken down further to those that were completed also?

So why would that include RAC? That's three separate stats: 1. How far the ball traveled in the air 2. It's a complete air yards attempt and 3. RAC for the receiver after the catch/air yards.

Air yards are defined as the amount of yards the ball traveled in the air on a passing play, from line of scrimmage to contact point. If the quarterback throws the ball at the 25-yard line and the pass is caught at the 20-yard line, the amount of air yards on the pass was five yards.

Yards per attempt are NOT AIR YARDS. They are NOT. Yards per attempt is the SUM of air yards PLUS yards after the catch, divided by attempts.

As math formulas:

Yards per attempt:

[(Total Air Yards) + (Total Yards After Catch)]/(Total Passing Attempts). Jimmy's value: 8.3

Air Yards Per Attempt:

(Total Air Yards)/(Total Passing Attempts). Jimmy's value: The stat only goes back to 2018 on PFR, and it's between 3 and 4.

The Home page says:

INTERPRETED AS: most passing air passing yards with a minimum of 1500 passing attempts by a player per attempt.

That sounds like an air yard per attempt stat to me. Maybe I'm not getting it???

Either way you say that stat only goes back a few years? So how is Otto Graham #1?

And is this good company?

Otto Graham - 8.6
Sid Luckman - 8.4
Jimmy Garoppolo - 8.3
Norm Van Brocklin - 8.2
Deshaun Watson - 8.2
Patrick Mahomes - 8.1
Steve Young - 8.0
Kurt Warner - 7.9
Tony Romo - 7.9
Ed Brown - 7.9
Bart Starr - 7.8

The reason Otto Graham is number one is because... those are not actually air yards.

Your "Home Page" website, whatever it is, is incorrect. Look, I'll make a diagram for you from Pro Football Reference:



Edited to come across as less exasperated because that can be interpreted as hostility.

Gotcha. I was just referencing the original site (and their definition) from the article that was referenced in the pod.

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/most-passing-air-yards-per-attempt

Appreciate your explanation.

It sounds like they need to correct their operational definition.

Yeah Statmuse doesn't seem to recognize the difference. Usually you see "air yards" written as "completed air yards," but that didn't work either when searching. They probably just don't have it because it's an advanced stat. At least that's my guess anyway.

Fair guess. Appreciate the perspective. Hope we didn't derail too much.

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
The reason Otto Graham is number one is because... those are not actually air yards.

Your "Home Page" website, whatever it is, is incorrect. Look, I'll make a diagram for you from Pro Football Reference:



Edited to come across as less exasperated because that can be interpreted as hostility.

I know at the end of these battles we like say label each other "respectable" and sing kumbaya,...but what's really respectable about trying to lie about stats?

Should it really take all this?

https://youtu.be/WgGIOXENRRM
very interesting conversation regarding Trey Lance/QB situations and different perspectives. I'm not saying I agree or disagree with the points thrown around, but thought it would be fun to hear peoples thoughts. The guy krueg is talking to throws a lot of the blame on Kyle, regarding treys situation. Which I think he makes some fair points. I think anyone rational can say that not everything is treys fault, at all. Specifically the injuries. I thought the plan for Trey (sit for a year and start after that) was a good plan. I think the execution was a little weird. They never really made a solid commitment about him publically until after the 2021 season, which is just kind of odd because of what we spent on Trey and where we took him. Idk. I think this will be a never endearing discussion until we finally know what Kyle/John have been thinking this whole time.

i personally don't fault them for running with Purdy at this point and giving him a shot. I just find how they handled everything super odd, including competing with darnold for QB2. Very strange situation but hopefully it works itself out.