Dallas Cowboys QB Trey Lance Thread

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Draft is a crapshoot is a great reason not to roll 3 years of ones into one project player. I would rather have three swings, than one big swing, if that makes sense. The way contracts work I am not overly worried about one of our guys balling, and getting paid. A lot of these deals have outs a lot sooner than the duration of the deal. If you cue up Daniel Jones for example, he has a cap hit of $21m this season, which is reasonable. The cap hit goes to $45m the next season, which is QB1 money. They then have an out. So it's one year of real QB1 dollars, and two years of contract, and a rip cord.

Just becuase the cap goes up doesn't mean you overpay for bad production. The money is still limited. I don't want to lose some of our elite offfensive and defensive talents for Daniel Jones level production. That's not good enough.

In 2-3 years if all we have gotten from Brock or Trey is Daniel Jones level play they can walk.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Credit for what exactly? I said he played well vs HOU. I'm just not blowing smoke like he's the lone QB capable of beating the Houston Texans, who themselves had a rook QB iirc, and a far inferior roster all around. We could sign guys off the street and win that game. Am I wrong?

I believe Houston had the 14th overall pass D (DVOA) So while not top 10. Far from the worst.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Credit for what exactly? I said he played well vs HOU. I'm just not blowing smoke like he's the lone QB capable of beating the Houston Texans, who themselves had a rook QB iirc, and a far inferior roster all around. We could sign guys off the street and win that game. Am I wrong?

I believe Houston had the 14th overall pass D (DVOA) So while not top 10. Far from the worst.

the only place on Earth where the 2021 Texans were any good, the TL thread.. what in the world

this is what I am talking about folks, you can say he did fine (even good!) that game.. why on Earth are you blowing smoke like the HOU Texans of that year were a squad? they totally weren't

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
the only place on Earth where the 2021 Texans were any good, the TL thread.. what in the world

this is what I am talking about folks, you can say he did fine (even good!) that game.. why on Earth are you blowing smoke like the HOU Texans of that year were a squad? they totally weren't

The Texans were a bad passing defense, and even worse at defending the run.

They were bottom 10 in completion percentage, yards per attempt, sacks, 1st down percentage. They were also bottom 10 in attempts, because their rush defense was even worse.

And our offense was nearly completely dysfunctional for the bulk of the game. They get credit for turning it around, but it was far from encouraging. Trey played below average individually. He flashed on a couple of plays, as he usually does when he's out there, but it was not good overall.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
The Texans were a bad passing defense, and even worse at defending the run.

They were bottom 10 in completion percentage, yards per attempt, sacks, 1st down percentage. They were also bottom 10 in attempts, because their rush defense was even worse.

And our offense was nearly completely dysfunctional for the bulk of the game. They get credit for turning it around, but it was far from encouraging. Trey played below average individually. He flashed on a couple of plays, as he usually does when he's out there, but it was not good overall.

Our offense was dysfunctional for the bulk of most games in 2021. Was Deebo go make a play or nothing. The following week it was terrible 1st half good running 2nd half with a nice final drive.

Brocks 8 game stretch was the most consistent the offense has ever looked. We need that to continue going forward.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Our offense was dysfunctional for the bulk of most games in 2021. Was Deebo go make a play or nothing. The following week it was terrible 1st half good running 2nd half with a nice final drive.

Brocks 8 game stretch was the most consistent the offense has ever looked. We need that to continue going forward.

Our offense wasn't elite, but it was far from dysfunctional like we saw in the Texans game. You can also thank Deebo and Shanahan for what was effectively the game winning TD in that game. Couldn't have been an easier TD for a QB to complete, and thankfully Trey did. The following week they played the eventual Super Bowl champs (and a division rival who knows us well) on the road with an injured starting QB. Not remotely comparable in terms of difficulty. I'm not here to defend Jimmy's performance anyway. The whole point was to get better and move on from him. I just think some people should probably realize that Jimmy level performance is not assured… it can be a lot worse. That's pretty much what we've seen from our costly investment to this point. I'd argue that should be expected given Trey's resume, but it doesn't help our team regardless.

Agree with your final point. Brock showed what our offense could look like with above average QB play. Good accuracy, good decision making, and an ability to reduce damage, or better, on a play that isn't working exactly as intended.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
the only place on Earth where the 2021 Texans were any good, the TL thread.. what in the world

this is what I am talking about folks, you can say he did fine (even good!) that game.. why on Earth are you blowing smoke like the HOU Texans of that year were a squad? they totally weren't

I gave you a factual stat that we just applied to Dallas about Brock and you had ZERO issues with that. I used the same reference for the Texans and you just can't handle it.

No where did I say they were great. Their pass D wasn't as bad as you want it to be for your narrative.

instead is saying hmmm I guess their Pass D wasn't pure s**t. You immediately go all negative nancy. I mean you've all but said point blank, that you can't be objective.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
The Texans were a bad passing defense, and even worse at defending the run.

They were bottom 10 in completion percentage, yards per attempt, sacks, 1st down percentage. They were also bottom 10 in attempts, because their rush defense was even worse.

And our offense was nearly completely dysfunctional for the bulk of the game. They get credit for turning it around, but it was far from encouraging. Trey played below average individually. He flashed on a couple of plays, as he usually does when he's out there, but it was not good overall.

14th overall pass D DVOA according to football outsiders. Same stat I used for Brock vs Dallas (3rd overall) not a single person had an issue with the same reference….until it's applied to Lance lol. Shocker. Also no one is saying the Texans were elite or anything.

all I've heard about was Sam's QB rating from faithful. Lance completed 70% of his passes, 2 TDs 250 yards 1INT and a 113.5 QB rating….but they only works for Sam apparently lol.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
the only place on Earth where the 2021 Texans were any good, the TL thread.. what in the world

this is what I am talking about folks, you can say he did fine (even good!) that game.. why on Earth are you blowing smoke like the HOU Texans of that year were a squad? they totally weren't

I gave you a factual stat that we just applied to Dallas about Brock and you had ZERO issues with that. I used the same reference for the Texans and you just can't handle it.

No where did I say they were great. Their pass D wasn't as bad as you want it to be for your narrative.

instead is saying hmmm I guess their Pass D wasn't pure s**t. You immediately go all negative nancy. I mean you've all but said point blank, that you can't be objective.

It was pure crap NY, their pass D was total crap.. why do you think they burned a #1 pick and a #2 pick on pass D, immediately after that season? You know the season they were 31st in total D, and bleep canned their HC?

This is the write up of that great HOU pass D, courtesy of ESPN.com, if you follow the draft, this was after selecting their DB at 3 overall:

"Texans coach Lovie Smith made it clear that he didn't think his defense could play the way he wanted them to without improved play at cornerback. By drafting Stingley, the Texans have immediately improved a secondary that struggled in 2021. Houston allowed the second-most yards per game last season and were 29th in yards per pass attempt allowed, according to ESPN Stats & Info. Houston cornerbacks allowed 8.3 yards per attempt as the nearest defenders in coverage, the fourth worst, according to NFL Next Gen Stats. Smith has talked about how he and general manager Nick Caserio are on the same page and work well together, and Smith gets a cornerback who will thrive in his defensive system at the top of the draft."

/quote

only place on Earth folks, not even HOU fans think this pass D was good, you gotta come to the TL thread

Originally posted by NYniner85:
14th overall pass D DVOA according to football outsiders. Same stat I used for Brock vs Dallas (3rd overall) not a single person had an issue with the same reference….until it's applied to Lance lol. Shocker. Also no one is saying the Texans were elite or anything.

all I've heard about was Sam's QB rating from faithful. Lance completed 70% of his passes, 2 TDs 250 yards 1INT and a 113.5 QB rating….but they only works for Sam apparently lol.

I can't speak for what stats people put weight into, or how they apply them with respect to certain players or teams. I can promise you that you didn't see a post from me touting Sam's passer rating his last 6 games in Carolina, or using a single stat like DVOA to draw a definitive conclusion about a team.

Houston's pass defense and overall defense was bad. Trey made a couple of good plays against them which was good enough to get a win, but overall did not play well in that game. His impact in the win was minimal, at best. If you are the type to put weight into a single stat, as you did here with DVOA, maybe look at Trey's QBR or PFF grade. It's at least a reference that can point you to do further research (like watching a film breakdown).

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
The Texans were a bad passing defense, and even worse at defending the run.

They were bottom 10 in completion percentage, yards per attempt, sacks, 1st down percentage. They were also bottom 10 in attempts, because their rush defense was even worse.

And our offense was nearly completely dysfunctional for the bulk of the game. They get credit for turning it around, but it was far from encouraging. Trey played below average individually. He flashed on a couple of plays, as he usually does when he's out there, but it was not good overall.

Well with his limited experience and having to sit on the bench and practicing with the scout team all year he still managed to get the team a W and helped punched their ticket into the playoffs. If they lose that game that means no playoffs, no wild card game against Dallas, no Divisional game against Green Bay in Lambeau which they won off a blocked punt, and not even sniffing the NFC championship.

Originally posted by eric_anthony:
Well with his limited experience and having to sit on the bench and practicing with the scout team all year he still managed to get the team a W and helped punched their ticket into the playoffs. If they lose that game that means no playoffs, no wild card game against Dallas, no Divisional game against Green Bay in Lambeau which they won off a blocked punt, and not even sniffing the NFC championship.

This is the part of it that was great. A first career dub is always a special thing. I thought he did well that day tbh. I just am not gonna sit here and blow smoke like the HOU D was a force. I see ppl pumping up the HOU D in one thread, and questioning the DAL playoff D in another, and it's backwards.

Originally posted by eric_anthony:
Well with his limited experience and having to sit on the bench and practicing with the scout team all year he still managed to get the team a W and helped punched their ticket into the playoffs. If they lose that game that means no playoffs, no wild card game against Dallas, no Divisional game against Green Bay in Lambeau which they won off a blocked punt, and not even sniffing the NFC championship.

Sure. At the same time, we might have had two additional wins with average QB play in the previous games Trey played.

As negative as this sounds, I'm not trying to crush Trey because the level of play we saw should have been expected given his lack of experience and fundamental issues. He's a project. How that helps us win in the short term, when we are primed to do so, is a question that should have been thought about a little more by management. Can't play him and expect offensive success… can't develop him without playing him… can't win *situation. Easy to see going in. As I've said multiple times in these arguments, I'm glad management has apparently realized this and has adjusted their plans going forward. It's not good for Trey as an individual though.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
It was pure crap NY, their pass D was total crap..

It was actually the 14th overall pass D. That's a fact regardless of what confirmation bias you want to add to your little rant.

I mean unless we're not gonna use Dallas and their 3rd overall pass D for Brock, which you had no problem with. Shocker.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
I can't speak for what stats people put weight into, or how they apply them with respect to certain players or teams. I can promise you that you didn't see a post from me touting Sam's passer rating his last 6 games in Carolina, or using a single stat like DVOA to draw a definitive conclusion about a team.

Houston's pass defense and overall defense was bad. Trey made a couple of good plays against them which was good enough to get a win, but overall did not play well in that game. His impact in the win was minimal, at best. If you are the type to put weight into a single stat, as you did here with DVOA, maybe look at Trey's QBR or PFF grade. It's at least a reference that can point you to do further research (like watching a film breakdown).

Football outsiders DVOA is about as good as it gets with stat.

Houston's pass D was actually 14th overall. Sorry I'll use a source that we use all the time in here and is about as unbiased as it gets.

again I never said they were great. Just not as s**tty as some 49er fans think