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Dallas Cowboys QB Trey Lance Thread

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Jun 21, 2023 at 12:27 AM
  • Koldo
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 4,635
Originally posted by SinceXVI:
Two really good articles by NFL analyst Rich Madrid, that breaks down what Trey Lance does well and what he needs to improve on.



"NFL analyst" Rich Madrid.



The guy is a pathetic clown.
Jun 21, 2023 at 5:00 AM
Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Originally posted by genus49:
Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Originally posted by genus49:
Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Originally posted by genus49:
Is this a joke? Of course I wouldn't pick him to be a HOFer considering the tiny % of players who get there. My whole point was there is a big middle ground of players who are neither. So why are we making bets on two extremes?

Thats like saying if you could bet your house on the Chiefs winning the SB next year or another team…as good as the Chiefs are the smart bet would be 31 other potential teams. And even that analogy isn't as crazy.

How about a bet whether he flames out or turns into a solid starting QB in the NfL?

Cuz I'm putting money on the later.

i can't help but notice that the optimistic side of your bet is that one day he reaches Jimmy G tier

There is a reason I don't bet on players, this is a hypothetical discussion and my point was simple - there is a LARGE gap between the two extremes he provided.

But obviously I'd be stupid to make a bet that Trey would turn into an elite QB right now, which takes me back to my other point 4 games is too little a sample size to know what a player will or will not be.

It just struck me as odd as we burn three ones to hopefully have a guy on the level of the prior guy.

I prefer more bets, rather than one big bet, we made one very big bet on TL, as a club. If you look at NE, they got Mac, and also Cole Strange and Christian Gonzalez. They kept all their ones, and the blowback is a lot less impactful if Mac doesn't work out, cuz they at least have Strange and this CB who maybe will be really good.

Dude my points were pretty clear, why are you taking them somewhere else?

I never said Lance will be Jimmy G level. I was simply arguing his point with using extremes and countered with a more realistic analogy.

Trey will never be Jimmy. He'll either be worse or he'll be better. His physical abilities alone prevent him from being Jimmy like.

I'm not talking JG style of play, but more JG tier of play, you mentioned TL one day reaching solid NFL starter, which to me is JGs tier. He will surely have to go beyond that to justify the pick. But I agree with you one step at a time here. Maybe get to that level first, and onward and upward. Were you a fan of this move up, prior to the selection? Just talking the trade of picks.

Yes. I was a fan of the trade and would do it all over again. I preferred Justin Fields but I will never fault the team for going for it.

I am more inclined to blame them for mismanaging Trey after making that move for him but Brock could make it a non issue.

To me until you have THE guy, you better be looking for him. You hit on him and nobody cares what you spent to get him.
Jun 21, 2023 at 5:03 AM
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
you miss every shot you don't take.. drafting Mac is not taking a shot

We gambled and it hasn't worked out, so far

This. Until you find a stud QB you take every chance to get one.
Jun 21, 2023 at 5:18 AM
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
It just struck me as odd as we burn three ones to hopefully have a guy on the level of the prior guy.

I prefer more bets, rather than one big bet, we made one very big bet on TL, as a club. If you look at NE, they got Mac, and also Cole Strange and Christian Gonzalez. They kept all their ones, and the blowback is a lot less impactful if Mac doesn't work out, cuz they at least have Strange and this CB who maybe will be really good.

And yet the 9ers have a guy who has at least shown glimpses of elite play in a small sample while New England has a guy who needs to be carried to wins because his sklllset is weak and has no real upside. Cole Strange and Christian Gonzalez won't make up for that. No Pat fan will be ok with Mac not working out because they have a starting nfl guard and possible solid cornerback. Only way it doesn't blow back if Mac fails is if Bailey Zappe is Brock 2.0.

The big bet the team can't miss on is giving huge money to Brock or Trey down the line.

What he's saying is Mac Jones for one pick > Trey Lance for three picks. I don't see how anyone could disagree with this, up until this point anyway.
you miss every shot you don't take.. drafting Mac is not taking a shot

We gambled and it hasn't worked out, so far

Again, Faithful's point is he prefers to have multiple "shots" rather than just one. I agree. Moving up in the first round (or at all) doesn't work out very often.

You don't think team looked ahead to see what other "shot" may be available?

Who do you see as a good shot at QB with the 28/29th picks we would've had in 2021 and 2022 drafts? Last year's QB class was awful and we probably got the best QB in that class anyways and this year it's Will Levis or maybe Hendon Hooker. Both guys older than Trey. Levis by a year and Hooker by 2.5 years.
Jun 21, 2023 at 5:20 AM
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Of course it affected us. Whoever we would have selected at 12 plus the picks we gave up could very well have contributed and gotten us over the hump at least once in the past two seasons. They absolutely would have contributed more than Trey has so far, we just don't know how much.

Alex Leatherwood wouldn't have. Rashawn Slater would've been zero help in 2022. Really depends on the player and the circumstances.

Parsons absolutely would have. Although I highly doubt Kyle would have taken him. He prefers "system" guys vs. BPA.
I doubt Parsons was even on our board with all his off the field issues. And if teams knew he'd be as good a rusher as he's been he'd have gone long before his pick anyways.
Jun 21, 2023 at 5:40 AM
Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
And the majority of those guys wouldn't have taken Parsons. Most would've advocated for Mac so we'd be in the same spot as Mac never beats out Jimmy either, got hurt last year too and would now be behind Brock just like Trey is. Now could both 29 picks be key contributors? Sure. They could also be misses. We don't know.

Why are you positive that Jones couldn't have beat out Jimmy, or that he would have even needed to? Jones being the most pro ready prospect of the three we chose from could have made an immediate Jimmy trade much more palatable.

Jones put up basically a mirror image of Jimmy's production as a rookie in a worse situation in terms of surrounding talent. And that was at a lower number in terms of salary.

In addition to whether or not we could have better used our draft picks, there are financial implications as well.

Because he wouldn't be able to break Jimmy's hold on the locker room here and that goes a long way with Kyle clearly. You think the team would be cool going with a rookie Jimmy but have Jimmy on the bench?

Pats didn't have their guy there already. They had no commitment to Cam Newton and cut him so Mac wouldn't be looking over his shoulder or fight for the locker room.

that doesn't happen here.
Jun 21, 2023 at 6:14 AM
Originally posted by Koldo:
Originally posted by SinceXVI:
Two really good articles by NFL analyst Rich Madrid, that breaks down what Trey Lance does well and what he needs to improve on.



"NFL analyst" Rich Madrid.



The guy is a pathetic clown.

This. I guess anyone with an internet connection can be an NFL analyst
Jun 21, 2023 at 7:36 AM
Originally posted by JoseCortez:
Originally posted by Koldo:
Originally posted by SinceXVI:
Two really good articles by NFL analyst Rich Madrid, that breaks down what Trey Lance does well and what he needs to improve on.



"NFL analyst" Rich Madrid.



The guy is a pathetic clown.

This. I guess anyone with an internet connection can be an NFL analyst
The guy served tours of duty in Middle East conflicts and has a Master's Degree, what a clown.

The articles are written objectively and do not predict Lance's future, just what he does and doesn't do well up to this point in his career.

More importantly, the film breakdowns are helpful in understanding football concepts and Kyle Shanahan's playbook and playcalling.
Jun 21, 2023 at 7:43 AM
Originally posted by Koldo:
Originally posted by SinceXVI:
Two really good articles by NFL analyst Rich Madrid, that breaks down what Trey Lance does well and what he needs to improve on.



"NFL analyst" Rich Madrid.



The guy is a pathetic clown.

Why is he a pathetic clown? I bet you'd be posting his work if it fit your narrative.
Jun 21, 2023 at 7:55 AM
If Lance never works out I'm not going to criticize the 49ers for taking a big chance. That's often the only way a team can hit the jackpot. The draft picks they gave up were late 1st rounders and there's no guarantee anyone they would have drafted with those picks would have helped the team. They knew they were going to be pretty good and wouldn't be picking in the top 5 or even the top 10. The fact that they had the 12th overall was only because they lost their starting QB for the season the previous year. They saw a chance to grab an athletic QB that was going to need a year or two to develop. They had JG in the meantime.

Jimmy got hurt again and Trey went down as well. That set the entire plan back a year. Then Trey broke his ankle last year and they lost another year. Jimmy got hurt once more. Luckily Brock stepped in and did a good job down the stretch and they made the playoffs. Now it's year 3 for Trey and year 2 for Brock. I hope they both stay healthy and have a good competition. It can only help the team.

Looking back on the entire saga, they did nothing wrong. It was a series of injuries that set the whole plan back. If they had stayed where they were and drafted Mac Jones I don't think they would be any better off. They would still be looking for "the guy". Plus they might not have drafted Brock. Who knows.
Jun 21, 2023 at 8:54 AM
Originally posted by genus49:
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
you miss every shot you don't take.. drafting Mac is not taking a shot

We gambled and it hasn't worked out, so far

This. Until you find a stud QB you take every chance to get one.

Does this include tanking for draft position?
Jun 21, 2023 at 9:02 AM
  • Kolohe
  • Hall of Fame
  • Posts: 62,181
Originally posted by SLCNiner:
Originally posted by Koldo:
Originally posted by SinceXVI:
Two really good articles by NFL analyst Rich Madrid, that breaks down what Trey Lance does well and what he needs to improve on.



"NFL analyst" Rich Madrid.



The guy is a pathetic clown.

Why is he a pathetic clown? I bet you'd be posting his work if it fit your narrative.

We all would, but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be calling him an NFL analyst like he's official.
Jun 21, 2023 at 9:08 AM
Originally posted by genus49:
Because he wouldn't be able to break Jimmy's hold on the locker room here and that goes a long way with Kyle clearly. You think the team would be cool going with a rookie Jimmy but have Jimmy on the bench?

Pats didn't have their guy there already. They had no commitment to Cam Newton and cut him so Mac wouldn't be looking over his shoulder or fight for the locker room.

that doesn't happen here.

I wouldn't have expected Jones to break Jimmy's hold on the locker room. I don't think that idea plays a guiding factor in what the team would have done though. I think giving Lance the job last season without a competition, sidelining Jimmy in the process as they tried to trade him, is a good example.

As I said in follow up posts, I think it's more likely they trade Jimmy right away. I don't know that it happens for sure, but I don't think they would have had a 'one size fits all' plan for all three of the rookie QBs. It made sense in theory to let Lance learn for a year on the bench. It makes a lot less sense for the pro ready guy. Plus, Lance actually had an opportunity to win the job his rookie year. Jones may have been able to do that. I think it would have been at least close, and I definitely don't think the 49ers viewed Jimmy as 'their guy'. They were rightfully looking to replace him.
Jun 21, 2023 at 9:10 AM
Originally posted by VinculumJuris:
Originally posted by genus49:
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
you miss every shot you don't take.. drafting Mac is not taking a shot

We gambled and it hasn't worked out, so far

This. Until you find a stud QB you take every chance to get one.

Does this include tanking for draft position?

I say yes but the problem with that is you're risking ruining your team culture. This team cannot afford to tank because that will blow up everything we've built up.

However if a team is middle of the road and can get away with it...TANK!
Jun 21, 2023 at 9:19 AM
Originally posted by genus49:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
It just struck me as odd as we burn three ones to hopefully have a guy on the level of the prior guy.

I prefer more bets, rather than one big bet, we made one very big bet on TL, as a club. If you look at NE, they got Mac, and also Cole Strange and Christian Gonzalez. They kept all their ones, and the blowback is a lot less impactful if Mac doesn't work out, cuz they at least have Strange and this CB who maybe will be really good.

And yet the 9ers have a guy who has at least shown glimpses of elite play in a small sample while New England has a guy who needs to be carried to wins because his sklllset is weak and has no real upside. Cole Strange and Christian Gonzalez won't make up for that. No Pat fan will be ok with Mac not working out because they have a starting nfl guard and possible solid cornerback. Only way it doesn't blow back if Mac fails is if Bailey Zappe is Brock 2.0.

The big bet the team can't miss on is giving huge money to Brock or Trey down the line.

What he's saying is Mac Jones for one pick > Trey Lance for three picks. I don't see how anyone could disagree with this, up until this point anyway.
you miss every shot you don't take.. drafting Mac is not taking a shot

We gambled and it hasn't worked out, so far

Again, Faithful's point is he prefers to have multiple "shots" rather than just one. I agree. Moving up in the first round (or at all) doesn't work out very often.

You don't think team looked ahead to see what other "shot" may be available?

Who do you see as a good shot at QB with the 28/29th picks we would've had in 2021 and 2022 drafts? Last year's QB class was awful and we probably got the best QB in that class anyways and this year it's Will Levis or maybe Hendon Hooker. Both guys older than Trey. Levis by a year and Hooker by 2.5 years.

in 2021 our pick was 12, recall in 2020 we sucked, as JG was injured
so you mention a late first in 2021, that is not the reality
you don't need to hypothesize about random QBs, we got our QB1 at pick 262, Mr BCB
WAS got a QB1 in round 5, point is, you don't need to burn three ones in a panic move like we did
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