Dallas Cowboys QB Trey Lance Thread

Originally posted by miked1978:

Originally posted by riverrunzthruit:
"And while they looked at the other prospects, they fell in love with the intangibles that Trey Lance demonstrated. He did testing and tested off the charts in terms of intelligence. They brought him in the building. The guy was ultra-impressive. And even though they traded up with the idea of picking Mac Jones, while doing their work, they became enamored with this guy and the upside that he had."

https://www.49erswebzone.com/articles/169626-schefter-there-trade-market-49ers-trey-lance/

So it turns out that was TL a great job interviewee and test taker, better than he is an NFL QB... got to give him credit here, he played the pre-draft hand he was dealt and turned it into a royal flush. He was able to shift the narrative from McCorkle to himself in the minds of 9er brass. Has to be ginormous amounts of buyer's dissonance now with this pick from ShannaLynch.... but they continue to put on a happy face.

I think more and more now they will not be able to trade TL and we see him let go at the end of year 4 when his option isn't exercised. Shannalynch would be disgraced now to move him for a day 3 pick, so next best option is to play the "we gave him time to develop and it didn't work out" card in order to save face.

How do you know he will not be a good NFL QB? Or are you the QB expert who can tell good QBs after 5 games?

would love to know what your thoughts were after Peyton Mannings rookie year where he threw 28 interceptions. Or maybe Joe Montana and Steve Young's slow starts? Did you write Josh Allen off? Trevor Lawrence? Aaron Rodgers?

Everything you said is nonsense.

1. Peyton manning didn't have a slow start. Lmao he was 3rd in the nfl in Passing yards and 5th in passing touchdowns. Yes, he lead the league in picks but he was on a bad team that leaned on him. He showed he was a superstar in the making, he just needed to work on the INT. His second year they went 13-3. Complete nonsense.

2. Joe montana didn't have a slow start? He just wasn't starting? He was also a 3rd round pick. No one was expecting him to be some future star that was drafted high in the first round. His first year starting full time he won the super bowl?

3. Steve young is like one of the only examples in nfl history where someone got off to a really rough start, left a team, and went on to be amazing and win a Super Bowl. He went to the USFL and not the NFL initially.

4. Josh allen wasn't off to a slow start. Lol It was clear he was talented. He had one question mark and it was his accuracy. That's all.

5. Trevor Lawrence: you can't win in this league with bad coaching and bad talent around you. In Lawrence case, he had probably the worst coach in NFL history. Lmao Lawrence was someone you KNEW was a bonafide generational talent and he wasn't the issue.

6. Aaron Rodgers didn't even play his first few years cause Farve was tearing it up. When Rodgers actually took over, he was great and continued to get better. Won a super bowl in what, his third year starting?

so stop with this nonsense. Lance has a great team around him, great coaching, great offensive playbook/calling, great culture etc. he has no excuse. He's extremely raw and inexperienced and I don't think he was ready to take on the mantle of leading a Super Bowl expectation team with tons of pro bowlers and all pros. I never thought it was the right pick and It's unfortunate how it's played out.

but stop using ridiculous examples, that I know you heard on the Krueg show lmao, because it's nonsense. Learn to look into these things.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Lol where is the flip flop? I stand by every word. You leave out the quality aspect. I said you don't want to settle for inferior options. Is TL superior to Mac? Is he superior to Fields? Is he superior to BP? Darnold? Anybody? You are not comprehending or reading the full post. Who exactly is TL superior to?

Who is Sam Howell superior to?

I'd rather have Howell. He's gonna be QB1. He's way cheaper. He looks like a better prospect to me. Watch him play. Why do you think he's QB1, and TL is QB2/3? You are your record, is a famous coach saying. You are your track record, and your spot on the depth chart. Howell is higher in WAS, than TL is in SF. Ask why that is? Should that be the case, with our investment? Was TL the best option, in 2021 or 2022, draft?

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by Waterbear:
The context wasn't too different. This was in the Jimmy G trade value thread. But faithful was speaking generally about what teams should want in acquiring QBs.

Like Hysterikal said, there's nothing wrong with changing your mind and there's nothing wrong with having a low opinion about Trey. I'm genuinely just tired of the hypocrisy.

the hypocrisy is creating a thread where JG is 'holding us back'.. let's see a TL thread where you ask if the TL trade, and the swap of three ones, is holding us back

I said QB is an important position - it is
I said you want to invest - you do
this doesn't mean all investments, are smart investments, heck we could pay Matt Ryan $60m for one season, it would be dumb as rocks, but it would be 'not skimping' at the position.. so sure invest at the position, pay fair market value or even beyond, but for the best QB you can obtain.. was that TL? With Fields on the clock? Or BP coming next year, who is a better QB? Is TL even any good? I will leave that for you to decide.

Hahaha… good one faithful. You always deflect instead of acknowledging your claims. That's your only comeback.

There have been many threads about trading Trey Lance. If you were consistent, you would be upset with those threads as well. But of course you're not.

You're mad because I caught you, once again, completely contradicting yourself. I've seen many, I repeat MANY people call you out on your flip flopping. So don't act like it's only me. If you don't believe me, I can post them for everyone to see.

BTW. The 100% completely unbiased thread I made was about Kyle and Jimmy, and "who holds the offense back more". Which doesn't say either of them are the main reason, in fact, I posted in that thread that it's a combination of things that I wouldn't put solely on Jimmy or Kyle. You and others quickly called me a Jimmy hater, but it's funny no one called me a Kyle hater.

I wonder why that was?

Lol where is the flip flop? I stand by every word. You leave out the quality aspect. I said you don't want to settle for inferior options. Is TL superior to Mac? Is he superior to Fields? Is he superior to BP? Darnold? Anybody? You are not comprehending or reading the full post. Who exactly is TL superior to?

You continually argued that teams shouldn't sign players like Winston or Mariota over trading for Jimmy, because doing so would be skimping out on the QB position.

You did this while simultaneously straw-Manning my argument by pretending I said those players were better than Jimmy, when I said the exact opposite. You've done this to me so many times and you've never once acknowledged doing so.

Now saying we made a mistake in drafting Trey, solely because he wasn't the best value.

Which is exactly what I was arguing in that Jimmy g trade value thread!! Jimmy wasn't the best value… even though he was the best available QB.

You can't have it both ways… but we know you always do.

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by Waterbear:
The context wasn't too different. This was in the Jimmy G trade value thread. But faithful was speaking generally about what teams should want in acquiring QBs.

Like Hysterikal said, there's nothing wrong with changing your mind and there's nothing wrong with having a low opinion about Trey. I'm genuinely just tired of the hypocrisy.

the hypocrisy is creating a thread where JG is 'holding us back'.. let's see a TL thread where you ask if the TL trade, and the swap of three ones, is holding us back

I said QB is an important position - it is
I said you want to invest - you do
this doesn't mean all investments, are smart investments, heck we could pay Matt Ryan $60m for one season, it would be dumb as rocks, but it would be 'not skimping' at the position.. so sure invest at the position, pay fair market value or even beyond, but for the best QB you can obtain.. was that TL? With Fields on the clock? Or BP coming next year, who is a better QB? Is TL even any good? I will leave that for you to decide.

Hahaha… good one faithful. You always deflect instead of acknowledging your claims. That's your only comeback.

There have been many threads about trading Trey Lance. If you were consistent, you would be upset with those threads as well. But of course you're not.

You're mad because I caught you, once again, completely contradicting yourself. I've seen many, I repeat MANY people call you out on your flip flopping. So don't act like it's only me. If you don't believe me, I can post them for everyone to see.

BTW. The 100% completely unbiased thread I made was about Kyle and Jimmy, and "who holds the offense back more". Which doesn't say either of them are the main reason, in fact, I posted in that thread that it's a combination of things that I wouldn't put solely on Jimmy or Kyle. You and others quickly called me a Jimmy hater, but it's funny no one called me a Kyle hater.

I wonder why that was?

Lol where is the flip flop? I stand by every word. You leave out the quality aspect. I said you don't want to settle for inferior options. Is TL superior to Mac? Is he superior to Fields? Is he superior to BP? Darnold? Anybody? You are not comprehending or reading the full post. Who exactly is TL superior to?

You continually argued that teams shouldn't sign players like Winston or Mariota over trading for Jimmy, because doing so would be skimping out on the QB position.

You did this while simultaneously straw-Manning my argument by pretending I said those players were better than Jimmy, when I said the exact opposite. You've done this to me so many times and you've never once acknowledged doing so.

Now saying we made a mistake in drafting Trey, solely because he wasn't the best value.

Which is exactly what I was arguing in that Jimmy g trade value thread!! Jimmy wasn't the best value… even though he was the best available QB.

You can't have it both ways… but we know you always do.

It's more TL wasn't best available QB. Forget the value side of the equation. Although the TL move certainly was not good 'value' unless he's an annual PB QB.

It's amusing to find out that criticism of all 49ers QB's is probably in an all time high this time. Not just Trey but all three of them- Brock and Sam included. It's not really very unusual since this is a forum where all opinions are shared but it's just surprising that these 3 QB's receive more negative feedbacks than when we had Jimmy, Beathard, and Mullens. I'd rather take positivity on this only for the reason that these 3 are much better than the old 3 I mentioned. Trey is not going anywhere so his development will still continue with us and he might even get the snaps that he needs if Brock can't play, and Brock, if healthy, is our QB1, and Sam, is there just in case. Having 3 QB's during the game has solved the problem we had last year. Most of you have valid points and I think they are all well taken but the fact is a lot of them are still up in the air. The bridge is getting closer and closer and we'll burn it for sure once we get there.

Originally posted by Waterbear:
You continually argued that teams shouldn't sign players like Winston or Mariota over trading for Jimmy, because doing so would be skimping out on the QB position.

You did this while simultaneously straw-Manning my argument by pretending I said those players were better than Jimmy, when I said the exact opposite. You've done this to me so many times and you've never once acknowledged doing so.

Now saying we made a mistake in drafting Trey, solely because he wasn't the best value.

Which is exactly what I was arguing in that Jimmy g trade value thread!! Jimmy wasn't the best value… even though he was the best available QB.

You can't have it both ways… but we know you always do.

People have been having it both ways for the entirety of my tenure on this message board. Opinions, what people value, what people call excuses versus context is all dependent upon the QB they are talking about. Very few posters are consistent in their beliefs about a QB. Their beliefs flip flop repeatedly based on which QB they are speaking about. And yes, 49erFaithful6 is the biggest culprit of this by a mile. Frankly, there isnt a poster who is even close.

Just crazy how far TL has fallen in one year! So now he is battling for QB3 vs. Brandon Allen who isn't chump change... ShannaLynch have a real dilemma on their hands, can't trade TL since nobody wants him, and a journey man backup could quite possibly beat him out for QB3.

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by Waterbear:
You continually argued that teams shouldn't sign players like Winston or Mariota over trading for Jimmy, because doing so would be skimping out on the QB position.

You did this while simultaneously straw-Manning my argument by pretending I said those players were better than Jimmy, when I said the exact opposite. You've done this to me so many times and you've never once acknowledged doing so.

Now saying we made a mistake in drafting Trey, solely because he wasn't the best value.

Which is exactly what I was arguing in that Jimmy g trade value thread!! Jimmy wasn't the best value… even though he was the best available QB.

You can't have it both ways… but we know you always do.

People have been having it both ways for the entirety of my tenure on this message board. Opinions, what people value, what people call excuses versus context is all dependent upon the QB they are talking about. Very few posters are consistent in their beliefs about a QB. Their beliefs flip flop repeatedly based on which QB they are speaking about. And yes, 49erFaithful6 is the biggest culprit of this by a mile. Frankly, there isnt a poster who is even close.

Good morning SWH, going back to WBs post, I feel Straw Manning would make an interesting name, from the next member of the Manning clan.

Originally posted by tankle104:
Everything you said is nonsense.

1. Peyton manning didn't have a slow start. Lmao he was 3rd in the nfl in Passing yards and 5th in passing touchdowns. Yes, he lead the league in picks but he was on a bad team that leaned on him. He showed he was a superstar in the making, he just needed to work on the INT. His second year they went 13-3. Complete nonsense.

2. Joe montana didn't have a slow start? He just wasn't starting? He was also a 3rd round pick. No one was expecting him to be some future star that was drafted high in the first round. His first year starting full time he won the super bowl?

3. Steve young is like one of the only examples in nfl history where someone got off to a really rough start, left a team, and went on to be amazing and win a Super Bowl. He went to the USFL and not the NFL initially.

4. Josh allen wasn't off to a slow start. Lol It was clear he was talented. He had one question mark and it was his accuracy. That's all.

5. Trevor Lawrence: you can't win in this league with bad coaching and bad talent around you. In Lawrence case, he had probably the worst coach in NFL history. Lmao Lawrence was someone you KNEW was a bonafide generational talent and he wasn't the issue.

6. Aaron Rodgers didn't even play his first few years cause Farve was tearing it up. When Rodgers actually took over, he was great and continued to get better. Won a super bowl in what, his third year starting?

so stop with this nonsense. Lance has a great team around him, great coaching, great offensive playbook/calling, great culture etc. he has no excuse. He's extremely raw and inexperienced and I don't think he was ready to take on the mantle of leading a Super Bowl expectation team with tons of pro bowlers and all pros. I never thought it was the right pick and It's unfortunate how it's played out.

but stop using ridiculous examples, that I know you heard on the Krueg show lmao, because it's nonsense. Learn to look into these things.

How about stop playing him like a fullback and play him like a QB? Stop with all the designed runs and have him extend plays with his legs. The kid has barely had a chance to prove himself with suspect playcalling. Funny how the only time he played fine was when the team was rolling in the second half of the season against the Texans. And even then the offense was inconsistent before Jimmy got hurt. It's way too early to write him off without seeing him play 4-5 straight games and not as a damn fullback with 10+ designed runs. I can agree he probably wasn't ready to lead the team to a SB his first year but that's why he really needed to start his first year so he could get that needed game experience.

Originally posted by eric_anthony:
How about stop playing him like a fullback and play him like a QB? Stop with all the designed runs and have him extend plays with his legs. The kid has barely had a chance to prove himself with suspect playcalling. Funny how the only time he played fine was when the team was rolling in the second half of the season against the Texans. And even then the offense was inconsistent before Jimmy got hurt. It's way too early to write him off without seeing him play 4-5 straight games and not as a damn fullback with 10+ designed runs. I can agree he probably wasn't ready to lead the team to a SB his first year but that's why he really needed to start his first year so he could get that needed game experience.

Kyle becomes a crap playcaller and forgets how to run a successful offense when Trey is in at QB.

We have 10 plus years of evidence to show how off the mark this theory is.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
I'd rather have Howell. He's gonna be QB1. He's way cheaper. He looks like a better prospect to me. Watch him play. Why do you think he's QB1, and TL is QB2/3? You are your record, is a famous coach saying. You are your track record, and your spot on the depth chart. Howell is higher in WAS, than TL is in SF. Ask why that is? Should that be the case, with our investment? Was TL the best option, in 2021 or 2022, draft?

Because the Commanders don't have a Brock Purdy.

Sam Howell was not the best option in any draft. Commanders are doing the opposite of what you advocated. But you support it simply in the context of Trey Lance.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
Kyle becomes a crap playcaller and forgets how to run a successful offense when Trey is in at QB.

We have 10 plus years of evidence to show how off the mark this theory is.

He got it right the second half of that Texans game.

Originally posted by JoseCortez:
I remember when posters here were convinced that shanalynch had always wanted Lance, and it was always Lance from the beginning.

They did...

Originally posted by CharlieSheen:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
To be clear, and I've agreed with you on this point in the past, I 100 percent think Kyle wanted Lance when he was selected. I do not believe for one second that the decision was forced on him, or that he was overruled.

I'm just not positive how he got there, and I think no matter how you slice it, or whatever theory a person wants to believe, the trade and selection was bad strategy and a reckless gamble.

I agree, I don't think he was forced to draft Trey. I do think he preferred Mac but talked himself into Trey.

I agree the trade was a bad strategy and reckless gamble. To trade up just to take a QB without knowing who you even wanted.

Yup. The media was kinda clowning him and the fans were already pissed, and we hadn't even drafted Mac yet lol. Then there were the pro Trey guys within the organization in his ear. After Treys interviews and testing went amazing is when Kyle started talking himself into it

"I started believing I'll see what I don't see"

Or whatever he said

OMG are we really doing this again?

If you're going to use his quote and misinterpret it the way you want then at least find the proper quote cuz it definitely wasn't anything close to yours.

All he was saying was they liked Trey from the tape they saw, they moved up knowing that they could then go full force into digging into everything with Trey or the other QBs now that there was nothing they needed to hide from other teams. He was simply saying he was hoping whatever they found out digging into him would match how good his tape was for them.

Not sure why you or some others painted that as if Jones was the top choice when they traded up. Nothing from Shahana leading up to the draft read Mac Jones.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
I'd rather have Howell. He's gonna be QB1. He's way cheaper. He looks like a better prospect to me. Watch him play. Why do you think he's QB1, and TL is QB2/3? You are your record, is a famous coach saying. You are your track record, and your spot on the depth chart. Howell is higher in WAS, than TL is in SF. Ask why that is? Should that be the case, with our investment? Was TL the best option, in 2021 or 2022, draft?

Because the Commanders don't have a Brock Purdy.

Sam Howell was not the best option in any draft. Commanders are doing the opposite of what you advocated. But you support it simply in the context of Trey Lance.

Look, I don't support the Commanders. I said in a post yesterday, there are a lot of ways to get a QB1, and taking a round 5 like WAS or pick 262 like us, are examples of ways. Just cuz you invest hard in the draft, doesn't mean you are getting quality. You want the most quality that you can get, not the biggest investment you can make. You are conflating this.