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Dallas Cowboys QB Trey Lance Thread

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Jun 26, 2023 at 2:58 PM
Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
Originally posted by Waterbear:
"I think the sooner you take the bumps and bruises, and the more experience you get (early), the better off you'll be in the long run," the rookie from Tennessee said. "I'll have to learn on the job and make some mistakes, but hopefully I won't make a bunch of them. ... You can only be so good on the chalkboard or paper. You have to be good on the field. The only way to do that is to get on the field and play." -Peyton Manning

This isn't really where the disagreement lies is it? I think almost everyone thinks Lance needs to play.

The disagreement lies in prioritizing his development when we* have better options and the team is ready to win right now.

Kyle and CO. deserve criticism for putting the team and Lance in this no win situation. To think you can win and develop a raw prospect like Lance at the same time is pretty high level arrogance.

This.
Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Depends on the QB. You have Mike LaFleur saying that in hindsight, it would have benefitted Zach Wilson to sit behind a vet. Peyton Manning and Trey Lance don't belong in the same sentence, outside of this sentence, saying they don't belong. Peyton was the son of an NFL QB. Peyton was a 4 year starter in the SEC. He was a can't miss in my book, when he was eligible for the draft. He wasn't a I played well for a handful of months in the Dakotas, after being lightly recruited, type of prospect. About as opposite as you can get.

And this.

Jun 26, 2023 at 3:18 PM
Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
Originally posted by Waterbear:
"I think the sooner you take the bumps and bruises, and the more experience you get (early), the better off you'll be in the long run," the rookie from Tennessee said. "I'll have to learn on the job and make some mistakes, but hopefully I won't make a bunch of them. ... You can only be so good on the chalkboard or paper. You have to be good on the field. The only way to do that is to get on the field and play." -Peyton Manning

This isn't really where the disagreement lies is it? I think almost everyone thinks Lance needs to play.

The disagreement lies in prioritizing his development when we* have better options and the team is ready to win right now.

Kyle and CO. deserve criticism for putting the team and Lance in this no win situation. To think you can win and develop a raw prospect like Lance at the same time is pretty high level arrogance.

This quote wasn't really a response to anything in specific, although I have seen people argue that Trey doesn't need to play real games to be ready, but I was more just reading up on Manning's rookie season because of this discussion and I thought the quote was relevant to this thread.

I don't think anyone expects Trey to be Peyton Manning, even with Peytons interceptions his rookie season, he showed elite level flashes, partly because he had a lot of experience, but I also don't think it's fair to say we know we couldn't win with Trey.

Say what you want about Trey but I still think he's a smart kid with a future in this league. We don't know how many games he would have won or lost and we very likely never will due to his injury week vs Seattle, I will continue to support him even though I'm happy with Purdy if he's our future.

Edit: Sorry, was that too positive for this thread?

Here...



Everyone feel better?
[ Edited by Waterbear on Jun 26, 2023 at 3:36 PM ]
Jun 26, 2023 at 4:10 PM
Originally posted by 49erKing:
He redshirted one year and still didn't earn his degree despite the 2020 season basically being cancelled? Is this true? He still doesn't have a college degree? I'll stop here as maybe he earned it really fast or something.

Yes, as I implied, there probably was a primary reason for him not to go back one more year but if he did, and he did well, it could have solidified his chance at #1 overall with Kenny Pickett and Desmond Ridder as his only competition in 2022. Why did he come out in a draft with the likes of Lawrence, Wilson, Fields, McCorkly? Because of all the hype/intrigue about his past performance, measurables, and potential ceiling. He absolutely fleeced the 49ers. And in hindsight it was a dumb decision (so far) on his part to join the NFL in 2021 because he was drafted by the 49ers and they absolutey f**ked him up.

With all this said I really hope Trey turns a corner this year and puts Purdy and Darnold in his rearview mirror permanently as QB1 for the 49ers. If he can we are going to the moon for sure. Chances of this happening though?

Yes much better to be drafted by a worse team…

Pretty sure when he declared for the draft the 49ers weren't picking 3rd so all that doesn't apply anyways.

We don't know what happens if he doesn't get hurt week 2 but no matter what situation wise the 49ers were the best spot for him. Circumstances change though and that's part of the game.

We'll see if he gets another opportunity to start here.
Jun 26, 2023 at 4:14 PM
Originally posted by genus49:
Originally posted by 49erKing:
He redshirted one year and still didn't earn his degree despite the 2020 season basically being cancelled? Is this true? He still doesn't have a college degree? I'll stop here as maybe he earned it really fast or something.

Yes, as I implied, there probably was a primary reason for him not to go back one more year but if he did, and he did well, it could have solidified his chance at #1 overall with Kenny Pickett and Desmond Ridder as his only competition in 2022. Why did he come out in a draft with the likes of Lawrence, Wilson, Fields, McCorkly? Because of all the hype/intrigue about his past performance, measurables, and potential ceiling. He absolutely fleeced the 49ers. And in hindsight it was a dumb decision (so far) on his part to join the NFL in 2021 because he was drafted by the 49ers and they absolutey f**ked him up.

With all this said I really hope Trey turns a corner this year and puts Purdy and Darnold in his rearview mirror permanently as QB1 for the 49ers. If he can we are going to the moon for sure. Chances of this happening though?

Yes much better to be drafted by a worse team…

Pretty sure when he declared for the draft the 49ers weren't picking 3rd so all that doesn't apply anyways.

We don't know what happens if he doesn't get hurt week 2 but no matter what situation wise the 49ers were the best spot for him. Circumstances change though and that's part of the game.

We'll see if he gets another opportunity to start here.

I missed that King post. Do we really think KS and JL are the model for the NFL on how to run an org, and it's first class all the way, and then we get to the TL thread, and SF messed TL up? Is that the take?
Jun 26, 2023 at 4:20 PM
Originally posted by SinceXVI:
Originally posted by random49er:
Originally posted by SinceXVI:
Brock is supposed to be cleared to play by Aug. 21st at the earliest, which is 2 preseason games in the can.

The odds are in Lance's favor to start week 1 if he's looking good in training camp and preseason.



And Darnold doesn't factor in the equation, he's learning a new system, lost a camp battle to Baker Mayfield before, and will try to overcome his bad tendencies against the league's best defense. Best of luck to him.

I mean we're not playing a conference opponent week 1. It'd kinda defy logic to get Purdy out there the 1st snap of week 1 unless they've pretty much given up on getting a good look @ Trey.

That's a good way to look at it. Don't know why there's a rush to get Purdy back week 1, be cautious and making sure he's completely healthy and effective for a deep playoff run.

If Lance is as bad as some want to believe, then the team would start off slow until Purdy returns and make its usual late season run.

Week 1 will be no cake walk for any QB we put out there. Steelers offense has some question marks on it but that defense is legit, especially their pass rush and playing on the road in a stadium opener…at least hopefully we can avoid the rain.

Honestly if Trey gets the start that week and the weather calls for rain, I'll be checking Colin Cowherd's house for a Trey voodoo doll.

But all jokes aside, if the 49ers think Brock is still their guy it may be a golden opportunity to keep him back so his first game back isn't in such a tough setting and also get a real game look at Trey vs a good defense(hopefully with normal conditions and CMC and Kittle out there with him)
Jun 26, 2023 at 4:23 PM
Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
I missed that King post. Do we really think KS and JL are the model for the NFL on how to run an org, and it's first class all the way, and then we get to the TL thread, and SF messed TL up? Is that the take?

Definitely don't think the team's front office structure is the model for the league, lol. It has been successful though.

Kyle and John absolutely had the team by the balls and got two of the most ridiculous first time HC-GM contracts the league has seen as far as I'm aware.

Cannot agree that SF was the best situation for Lance. It's clearly been a bad situation for him to this point.
Jun 26, 2023 at 4:26 PM
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Originally posted by Waterbear:
"I think the sooner you take the bumps and bruises, and the more experience you get (early), the better off you'll be in the long run," the rookie from Tennessee said. "I'll have to learn on the job and make some mistakes, but hopefully I won't make a bunch of them. ... You can only be so good on the chalkboard or paper. You have to be good on the field. The only way to do that is to get on the field and play." -Peyton Manning

Depends on the QB. You have Mike LaFleur saying that in hindsight, it would have benefitted Zach Wilson to sit behind a vet. Peyton Manning and Trey Lance don't belong in the same sentence, outside of this sentence, saying they don't belong. Peyton was the son of an NFL QB. Peyton was a 4 year starter in the SEC. He was a can't miss in my book, when he was eligible for the draft. He wasn't a I played well for a handful of months in the Dakotas, after being lightly recruited, type of prospect. About as opposite as you can get.

Exactly this. For Manning, who was a literal football genius, getting on the field is what he needed to improve. For most QB's, they need time to actually learn and develop the many other facets of playing QB.

I can't believe we've had to spend this much time differentiating an all-time great to Trey lol.

You're arguing against him and you don't even see it. So is he.

The very fact that Manning was bred to play nfl QB and still needed time to get things right is further proof that Lance needs time. That was the point made…that experience and playing brings out the best in QBs who aren't afraid of the moment and are willing to put in the work to improve. Trey does that.

He doesn't have to be Peyton Manning, Mahomes or any other elite proven stud QB. He just has to develop and grow as his own guy and then we'll see where he belongs among all the other QBs.

Now if we want to talk about whether his opportunity to develop/play here has been severely handicapped due to his injury and Brock's play well that's another story all together.

But at 23 years old Trey's career is far from over.
Jun 26, 2023 at 4:27 PM
Originally posted by genus49:
Originally posted by SinceXVI:
Originally posted by random49er:
Originally posted by SinceXVI:
Brock is supposed to be cleared to play by Aug. 21st at the earliest, which is 2 preseason games in the can.

The odds are in Lance's favor to start week 1 if he's looking good in training camp and preseason.



And Darnold doesn't factor in the equation, he's learning a new system, lost a camp battle to Baker Mayfield before, and will try to overcome his bad tendencies against the league's best defense. Best of luck to him.

I mean we're not playing a conference opponent week 1. It'd kinda defy logic to get Purdy out there the 1st snap of week 1 unless they've pretty much given up on getting a good look @ Trey.

That's a good way to look at it. Don't know why there's a rush to get Purdy back week 1, be cautious and making sure he's completely healthy and effective for a deep playoff run.

If Lance is as bad as some want to believe, then the team would start off slow until Purdy returns and make its usual late season run.

Week 1 will be no cake walk for any QB we put out there. Steelers offense has some question marks on it but that defense is legit, especially their pass rush and playing on the road in a stadium opener…at least hopefully we can avoid the rain.

Honestly if Trey gets the start that week and the weather calls for rain, I'll be checking Colin Cowherd's house for a Trey voodoo doll.

But all jokes aside, if the 49ers think Brock is still their guy it may be a golden opportunity to keep him back so his first game back isn't in such a tough setting and also get a real game look at Trey vs a good defense(hopefully with normal conditions and CMC and Kittle out there with him)



Yessir. At Steelers is a challenge. Long trip. Strong fan following. SB winning HC. I like a lot of their offense, young guys, but good players.
I don't have an assumption that if BP is out, TL is next man up. In fact I think I've seen not one but two articles today on the homepage, from NFL insiders, suggesting if BP is out Sam is next man up. Course they are guessing at this point. KS gotta sort that one out. TBD.
Jun 26, 2023 at 4:31 PM
Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Originally posted by genus49:
Originally posted by 49erKing:
He redshirted one year and still didn't earn his degree despite the 2020 season basically being cancelled? Is this true? He still doesn't have a college degree? I'll stop here as maybe he earned it really fast or something.

Yes, as I implied, there probably was a primary reason for him not to go back one more year but if he did, and he did well, it could have solidified his chance at #1 overall with Kenny Pickett and Desmond Ridder as his only competition in 2022. Why did he come out in a draft with the likes of Lawrence, Wilson, Fields, McCorkly? Because of all the hype/intrigue about his past performance, measurables, and potential ceiling. He absolutely fleeced the 49ers. And in hindsight it was a dumb decision (so far) on his part to join the NFL in 2021 because he was drafted by the 49ers and they absolutey f**ked him up.

With all this said I really hope Trey turns a corner this year and puts Purdy and Darnold in his rearview mirror permanently as QB1 for the 49ers. If he can we are going to the moon for sure. Chances of this happening though?

Yes much better to be drafted by a worse team…

Pretty sure when he declared for the draft the 49ers weren't picking 3rd so all that doesn't apply anyways.

We don't know what happens if he doesn't get hurt week 2 but no matter what situation wise the 49ers were the best spot for him. Circumstances change though and that's part of the game.

We'll see if he gets another opportunity to start here.

I missed that King post. Do we really think KS and JL are the model for the NFL on how to run an org, and it's first class all the way, and then we get to the TL thread, and SF messed TL up? Is that the take?

Do I think they messed Trey up? No. Do I think they may be giving up on him too early? Yes.

I think Kyle is a great HC but he has ego issues with his scheme which cloud his judgement imo and while it's not all on him, I know I'm not the only one who said before the week 2 game "man if we keep running Trey like this he won't last all year"

I just wasn't expecting that serious of an injury and that early in the season but fact is the playcalling with Trey wasn't the same as the other QBs. That's on Kyle and he clearly has trust issues and that's his biggest flaw imo. He has to give his guys a chance in games until they prove they cannot do it.

His playcalling is different if the guys he truly trusts aren't in there. It's not just about QBs and sometimes it's even more so about the RBs. That's partly why imo the offense looked so much smoother with CMC in there.
Jun 26, 2023 at 4:38 PM
Originally posted by genus49:
Do I think they messed Trey up? No. Do I think they may be giving up on him too early? Yes.

I think Kyle is a great HC but he has ego issues with his scheme which cloud his judgement imo and while it's not all on him, I know I'm not the only one who said before the week 2 game "man if we keep running Trey like this he won't last all year"

I just wasn't expecting that serious of an injury and that early in the season but fact is the playcalling with Trey wasn't the same as the other QBs. That's on Kyle and he clearly has trust issues and that's his biggest flaw imo. He has to give his guys a chance in games until they prove they cannot do it.

His playcalling is different if the guys he truly trusts aren't in there. It's not just about QBs and sometimes it's even more so about the RBs. That's partly why imo the offense looked so much smoother with CMC in there.

Can't disagree with you about Kyle and his trust issue in regards to the QB position. At the same time, I disagree with what you think was the right solution. If this great offensive play designer and play caller doesn't trust his guy to execute the offense, the solution isn't to just force it and see what happens… especially given the team's position. The solution is to not play him if he can't be trusted to do it, and to let him prove he's ready through competition in practice first.

That's what we're doing this year. What we did last year was bad management.
Jun 26, 2023 at 4:52 PM
Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Originally posted by genus49:
Originally posted by SinceXVI:
Originally posted by random49er:
Originally posted by SinceXVI:
Brock is supposed to be cleared to play by Aug. 21st at the earliest, which is 2 preseason games in the can.

The odds are in Lance's favor to start week 1 if he's looking good in training camp and preseason.



And Darnold doesn't factor in the equation, he's learning a new system, lost a camp battle to Baker Mayfield before, and will try to overcome his bad tendencies against the league's best defense. Best of luck to him.

I mean we're not playing a conference opponent week 1. It'd kinda defy logic to get Purdy out there the 1st snap of week 1 unless they've pretty much given up on getting a good look @ Trey.

That's a good way to look at it. Don't know why there's a rush to get Purdy back week 1, be cautious and making sure he's completely healthy and effective for a deep playoff run.

If Lance is as bad as some want to believe, then the team would start off slow until Purdy returns and make its usual late season run.

Week 1 will be no cake walk for any QB we put out there. Steelers offense has some question marks on it but that defense is legit, especially their pass rush and playing on the road in a stadium opener…at least hopefully we can avoid the rain.

Honestly if Trey gets the start that week and the weather calls for rain, I'll be checking Colin Cowherd's house for a Trey voodoo doll.

But all jokes aside, if the 49ers think Brock is still their guy it may be a golden opportunity to keep him back so his first game back isn't in such a tough setting and also get a real game look at Trey vs a good defense(hopefully with normal conditions and CMC and Kittle out there with him)



Yessir. At Steelers is a challenge. Long trip. Strong fan following. SB winning HC. I like a lot of their offense, young guys, but good players.
I don't have an assumption that if BP is out, TL is next man up. In fact I think I've seen not one but two articles today on the homepage, from NFL insiders, suggesting if BP is out Sam is next man up. Course they are guessing at this point. KS gotta sort that one out. TBD.

Those articles imo are based on nothing but the opinions of the same guys who claimed Mac Jones would be our pick at 3 because they thought they knew what Kyle wanted.

We will see of course and Kyle claimed the competition doesn't officially open until training camp but imo Sam hasn't shown anything so far to start over Trey and if they decide to start Sam over Trey just cuz he has more experience then it's absolutely egregious. There is no logic to start someone who is new to this offense, has a history of horrific turnover riddled games over a guy you took at 3 after a big trade up and needs game reps to get better.

Steelers are exactly the type of defense to push Darnold into an awful game. Lance for all his flaws has kept the turnover to a minimal.
Jun 26, 2023 at 4:57 PM
Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
Originally posted by genus49:
Do I think they messed Trey up? No. Do I think they may be giving up on him too early? Yes.

I think Kyle is a great HC but he has ego issues with his scheme which cloud his judgement imo and while it's not all on him, I know I'm not the only one who said before the week 2 game "man if we keep running Trey like this he won't last all year"

I just wasn't expecting that serious of an injury and that early in the season but fact is the playcalling with Trey wasn't the same as the other QBs. That's on Kyle and he clearly has trust issues and that's his biggest flaw imo. He has to give his guys a chance in games until they prove they cannot do it.

His playcalling is different if the guys he truly trusts aren't in there. It's not just about QBs and sometimes it's even more so about the RBs. That's partly why imo the offense looked so much smoother with CMC in there.

Can't disagree with you about Kyle and his trust issue in regards to the QB position. At the same time, I disagree with what you think was the right solution. If this great offensive play designer and play caller doesn't trust his guy to execute the offense, the solution isn't to just force it and see what happens… especially given the team's position. The solution is to not play him if he can't be trusted to do it, and to let him prove he's ready through competition in practice first.

That's what we're doing this year. What we did last year was bad management.

There is a line there. You don't want to reward laziness and stupidity in practice but there have been plenty of examples of guys who were so called "gamers" and maybe didn't practice as well. So doing what Kyle does can hold a better player back.

Beathard and Mullens aren't Montana/Young but do we not remember how Kyle kept CJ ahead of Nick on the depth chart and Mullens was the much better QB in real games?
Jun 26, 2023 at 5:12 PM
Originally posted by genus49:
Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
Originally posted by genus49:
Do I think they messed Trey up? No. Do I think they may be giving up on him too early? Yes.

I think Kyle is a great HC but he has ego issues with his scheme which cloud his judgement imo and while it's not all on him, I know I'm not the only one who said before the week 2 game "man if we keep running Trey like this he won't last all year"

I just wasn't expecting that serious of an injury and that early in the season but fact is the playcalling with Trey wasn't the same as the other QBs. That's on Kyle and he clearly has trust issues and that's his biggest flaw imo. He has to give his guys a chance in games until they prove they cannot do it.

His playcalling is different if the guys he truly trusts aren't in there. It's not just about QBs and sometimes it's even more so about the RBs. That's partly why imo the offense looked so much smoother with CMC in there.

Can't disagree with you about Kyle and his trust issue in regards to the QB position. At the same time, I disagree with what you think was the right solution. If this great offensive play designer and play caller doesn't trust his guy to execute the offense, the solution isn't to just force it and see what happens… especially given the team's position. The solution is to not play him if he can't be trusted to do it, and to let him prove he's ready through competition in practice first.

That's what we're doing this year. What we did last year was bad management.

There is a line there. You don't want to reward laziness and stupidity in practice but there have been plenty of examples of guys who were so called "gamers" and maybe didn't practice as well. So doing what Kyle does can hold a better player back.

Beathard and Mullens aren't Montana/Young but do we not remember how Kyle kept CJ ahead of Nick on the depth chart and Mullens was the much better QB in real games?

The team started 3-4 in 2021 and 3-5 in 2022, and ended up in the NFCCG both seasons. They can afford to start Trey the 1st few games of the season, and go back to Purdy who should definitely be 100% by weeks 3-4, if Trey isn't up to the task.

That's an unacceptable scenario for some because it leaves the possibility that Trey might play well and remain the starter.
Jun 26, 2023 at 5:19 PM
Originally posted by genus49:
There is a line there. You don't want to reward laziness and stupidity in practice but there have been plenty of examples of guys who were so called "gamers" and maybe didn't practice as well. So doing what Kyle does can hold a better player back.

Beathard and Mullens aren't Montana/Young but do we not remember how Kyle kept CJ ahead of Nick on the depth chart and Mullens was the much better QB in real games?

Yea I don't think that's a comparable situation because one was a premeditated plan (giving Trey Lance the job in 22) and the other was the team scrambling when their starter went down with an ACL injury and the team was desperate. I also don't think Nick Mullens was a much better QB. Not surprised they made the change after 5 straight losses and the season was all but over. Just like in '21… we were 1-2 losses away from seeing Trey take over in what would have been a lost season and a good chance to evaluate and develop a player. You had answers about what Beathard was at the NFL at that point in 2018. Might as well get a look at Mullens.

As far as the potential for a player to show better in games than practice, I think there was enough from the '21 season appearances Trey made to conclude that likely wouldn't be the case with him in '22. They just boxed themselves in badly and the team and Trey paid for it. Big time for Trey. Fortunately the team had insurance (and a hidden gem behind it).
Jun 26, 2023 at 5:23 PM
Originally posted by SinceXVI:
The team started 3-4 in 2021 and 3-5 in 2022, and ended up in the NFCCG both seasons. They can afford to start Trey the 1st few games of the season, and go back to Purdy who should definitely be 100% by weeks 3-4, if Trey isn't up to the task.

That's an unacceptable scenario for some because it leaves the possibility that Trey might play well and remain the starter.

It's unacceptable to not play the player who gives us the best chance to win games because 1 or 2 games might be the difference in traveling to play the NFC title game and playing at Levi's where they haven't lost under this regime.

One or even a handful of games is not enough to get a serious look at Lance or further develop him. If you believe he could take that opportunity and parlay it into a full time starting position than you should believe he'll show it in practice first. He has that opportunity now.
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