Dallas Cowboys QB Trey Lance Thread

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by BleedsRedNGold:
Based on this thread so far, you'd think we just watched Trey toss 6 TDs and throw for 400 yds in his first pre-season game. Even then, I'd caution you that it's just pre-season and it doesn't mean anything.

But so far all this hype is coming from some cell phone video of the guy throwing against air. This is how disappointment starts. This is how people start calling player's busts and calling for coaches to be fired. Trey just played one real game in two years and looked VERY MEDIOCRE in that one he did play.

Calm down, guys.

Based on this thread you'd think Jimmy was some elite QB that couldn't possibly get beat out by a rookie…and the ideal way to make a player get better is for him to sit the bench

yeah if you did your research on that game you'd have a better idea of what was going on…last I saw he actually won that game. I was told winning is all that matters 🤔

Where is this jimmy is elite talk?

winning is what matters, but you want to throw in a guy who hasn't even played the in the NFL.. extreme takes there

I don't think It's extreme to expect a rookie QB to start from day 1, especially when he's In the best situation possible.

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by BleedsRedNGold:
Based on this thread so far, you'd think we just watched Trey toss 6 TDs and throw for 400 yds in his first pre-season game. Even then, I'd caution you that it's just pre-season and it doesn't mean anything.

But so far all this hype is coming from some cell phone video of the guy throwing against air. This is how disappointment starts. This is how people start calling player's busts and calling for coaches to be fired. Trey just played one real game in two years and looked VERY MEDIOCRE in that one he did play.

Calm down, guys.

Based on this thread you'd think Jimmy was some elite QB that couldn't possibly get beat out by a rookie…and the ideal way to make a player get better is for him to sit the bench

yeah if you did your research on that game you'd have a better idea of what was going on…last I saw he actually won that game. I was told winning is all that matters 🤔

Where is this jimmy is elite talk?

winning is what matters, but you want to throw in a guy who hasn't even played the in the NFL.. extreme takes there

And if he sits all year, next year he still won't have ever played in the NFL. By that rationale he never should LOL.

Originally posted by ronniefreakinlott42:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by BleedsRedNGold:
Based on this thread so far, you'd think we just watched Trey toss 6 TDs and throw for 400 yds in his first pre-season game. Even then, I'd caution you that it's just pre-season and it doesn't mean anything.

But so far all this hype is coming from some cell phone video of the guy throwing against air. This is how disappointment starts. This is how people start calling player's busts and calling for coaches to be fired. Trey just played one real game in two years and looked VERY MEDIOCRE in that one he did play.

Calm down, guys.

Based on this thread you'd think Jimmy was some elite QB that couldn't possibly get beat out by a rookie…and the ideal way to make a player get better is for him to sit the bench

yeah if you did your research on that game you'd have a better idea of what was going on…last I saw he actually won that game. I was told winning is all that matters 🤔

Where is this jimmy is elite talk?

winning is what matters, but you want to throw in a guy who hasn't even played the in the NFL.. extreme takes there

And if he sits all year, next year he still won't have ever played in the NFL. By that rationale he never should LOL.

Another extreme take here. He's not going to sit all year if he's QB2

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:
The "sit Trey until Jimmy dies of old age" crowd like to imagine that if the Chiefs had had the audacity to play Mahomes his rookie season that they would have imploded and Mahomes would be out of the league by now.

Right? If sitting lead to more success every single QB drafted would be sitting year one.

Only way Trey isn't starting at some point this yr is if Jimmy is playing like the league MVP (doubtful) or his mechanics/understanding of the playbook aren't up to par…which from everything we're hearing/seeing isn't the case either.

Let's stop pretending like Jimmy is some elite QB, he's an okay starter, dude is gonna be gone in a year tops….honestly I don't see this massive downgrade between Jimmy and rookie Lance.

what Lance was asked to do in NDSU is gonna be damn near the same Kyle will ask of him in yr1 (maybe not running so much). Tons of play-action, boots/rollouts, half reads, slants, RPOs, get the ball in play-makers hands on 1st reads, and handing the ball off like 500x.

There's a huge myth going around about potentially "wasting" the season with starting a rookie QB. I've seen many posters say it so it's not just random trolls either.

The elephant in the room is the rookie wage scale. If you take a step back and just look at the super bowl winners over the years after the rookie wage scale you'll notice that unless you're Tom Brady, you have a much higher chance of winning the Super Bowl if your QB is on his rookie deal. Before the rookie wage scale, you have a bad teams having to pay their rookie QBs an absurd amount of money before they prove anything which almost always results in a bad season.

So there is an argument to be made that we would have a better chance to win the Super Bowl if we somehow traded Jimmy G's contract. That doesn't mean Jimmy can't win the Super Bowl this year and that doesn't mean it's certain that Lance would play better than Jimmy did in 2019. And I also don't hate the strategy we're using by keeping Jimmy. I think it's smart to have two potential quality starting QBs on the roster given our history with injuries.

But to argue the same old adage "rookie QBs never win super bowls" is beyond ignorant given what we know about teams that win Super Bowls post wage scale. Our team's success with regards to QB play is predicated on their ability to play, period. Nothing more and nothing less. And there's plenty of examples of rookies being more productive than Jimmy's best season.

So to claim we would be wasting the season starting Lance over Jimmy is basically saying it's impossible for him to play better than Jimmy when there's no you can assume that. We're in a very unique situation with a really good roster. You could make the argument this is the best team to draft a QB in the top 5 of the draft in NFL history. Whoever starts this season will be set up for success and I'll be rooting for them.

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:
The "sit Trey until Jimmy dies of old age" crowd like to imagine that if the Chiefs had had the audacity to play Mahomes his rookie season that they would have imploded and Mahomes would be out of the league by now.

Right? If sitting lead to more success every single QB drafted would be sitting year one.

Only way Trey isn't starting at some point this yr is if Jimmy is playing like the league MVP (doubtful) or his mechanics/understanding of the playbook aren't up to par…which from everything we're hearing/seeing isn't the case either.

Let's stop pretending like Jimmy is some elite QB, he's an okay starter, dude is gonna be gone in a year tops….honestly I don't see this massive downgrade between Jimmy and rookie Lance.

what Lance was asked to do in NDSU is gonna be damn near the same Kyle will ask of him in yr1 (maybe not running so much). Tons of play-action, boots/rollouts, half reads, slants, RPOs, get the ball in play-makers hands on 1st reads, and handing the ball off like 500x.

There's a huge myth going around about potentially "wasting" the season with starting a rookie QB. I've seen many posters say it so it's not just random trolls either.

The elephant in the room is the rookie wage scale. If you take a step back and just look at the super bowl winners over the years after the rookie wage scale you'll notice that unless you're Tom Brady, you have a much higher chance of winning the Super Bowl if your QB is on his rookie deal. Before the rookie wage scale, you have a bad teams having to pay their rookie QBs an absurd amount of money before they prove anything which almost always results in a bad season.

So there is an argument to be made that we would have a better chance to win the Super Bowl if we somehow traded Jimmy G's contract. That doesn't mean Jimmy can't win the Super Bowl this year and that doesn't mean it's certain that Lance would play better than Jimmy did in 2019. And I also don't hate the strategy we're using by keeping Jimmy. I think it's smart to have two potential quality starting QBs on the roster given our history with injuries.

But to argue the same old adage "rookie QBs never win super bowls" is beyond ignorant given what we know about teams that win Super Bowls post wage scale. Our team's success with regards to QB play is predicated on their ability to play, period. Nothing more and nothing less. And there's plenty of examples of rookies being more productive than Jimmy's best season.

So to claim we would be wasting the season starting Lance over Jimmy is basically saying it's impossible for him to play better than Jimmy when there's no you can assume that. We're in a very unique situation with a really good roster. You could make the argument this is the best team to draft a QB in the top 5 of the draft in NFL history. Whoever starts this season will be set up for success and I'll be rooting for them.

A rookie has never won a SB. Lance won't be a rookie next year and we still have 4 years of his contract left

Originally posted by Sickaa:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by BleedsRedNGold:
Based on this thread so far, you'd think we just watched Trey toss 6 TDs and throw for 400 yds in his first pre-season game. Even then, I'd caution you that it's just pre-season and it doesn't mean anything.

But so far all this hype is coming from some cell phone video of the guy throwing against air. This is how disappointment starts. This is how people start calling player's busts and calling for coaches to be fired. Trey just played one real game in two years and looked VERY MEDIOCRE in that one he did play.

Calm down, guys.

Based on this thread you'd think Jimmy was some elite QB that couldn't possibly get beat out by a rookie…and the ideal way to make a player get better is for him to sit the bench

yeah if you did your research on that game you'd have a better idea of what was going on…last I saw he actually won that game. I was told winning is all that matters 🤔

Where is this jimmy is elite talk?

winning is what matters, but you want to throw in a guy who hasn't even played the in the NFL.. extreme takes there

I don't think It's extreme to expect a rookie QB to start from day 1, especially when he's In the best situation possible.

Starting someone just because he is high round rookie is not a recipe for success. Let him start when hes ready TC and preseason will determine that because based on his college tape i dont see how anyone believes hes is ready to start now and all the talk pre draft regarding Lance supports that theory as well

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:
The "sit Trey until Jimmy dies of old age" crowd like to imagine that if the Chiefs had had the audacity to play Mahomes his rookie season that they would have imploded and Mahomes would be out of the league by now.

Right? If sitting lead to more success every single QB drafted would be sitting year one.

Only way Trey isn't starting at some point this yr is if Jimmy is playing like the league MVP (doubtful) or his mechanics/understanding of the playbook aren't up to par…which from everything we're hearing/seeing isn't the case either.

Let's stop pretending like Jimmy is some elite QB, he's an okay starter, dude is gonna be gone in a year tops….honestly I don't see this massive downgrade between Jimmy and rookie Lance.

what Lance was asked to do in NDSU is gonna be damn near the same Kyle will ask of him in yr1 (maybe not running so much). Tons of play-action, boots/rollouts, half reads, slants, RPOs, get the ball in play-makers hands on 1st reads, and handing the ball off like 500x.

There's a huge myth going around about potentially "wasting" the season with starting a rookie QB. I've seen many posters say it so it's not just random trolls either.

The elephant in the room is the rookie wage scale. If you take a step back and just look at the super bowl winners over the years after the rookie wage scale you'll notice that unless you're Tom Brady, you have a much higher chance of winning the Super Bowl if your QB is on his rookie deal. Before the rookie wage scale, you have a bad teams having to pay their rookie QBs an absurd amount of money before they prove anything which almost always results in a bad season.

So there is an argument to be made that we would have a better chance to win the Super Bowl if we somehow traded Jimmy G's contract. That doesn't mean Jimmy can't win the Super Bowl this year and that doesn't mean it's certain that Lance would play better than Jimmy did in 2019. And I also don't hate the strategy we're using by keeping Jimmy. I think it's smart to have two potential quality starting QBs on the roster given our history with injuries.

But to argue the same old adage "rookie QBs never win super bowls" is beyond ignorant given what we know about teams that win Super Bowls post wage scale. Our team's success with regards to QB play is predicated on their ability to play, period. Nothing more and nothing less. And there's plenty of examples of rookies being more productive than Jimmy's best season.

So to claim we would be wasting the season starting Lance over Jimmy is basically saying it's impossible for him to play better than Jimmy when there's no you can assume that. We're in a very unique situation with a really good roster. You could make the argument this is the best team to draft a QB in the top 5 of the draft in NFL history. Whoever starts this season will be set up for success and I'll be rooting for them.

A rookie has never won a SB. Lance won't be a rookie next year and we still have 4 years of his contract left

^^Exhibit A.

I'm embarrassed for you that you just responded with that.

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:
The "sit Trey until Jimmy dies of old age" crowd like to imagine that if the Chiefs had had the audacity to play Mahomes his rookie season that they would have imploded and Mahomes would be out of the league by now.

Right? If sitting lead to more success every single QB drafted would be sitting year one.

Only way Trey isn't starting at some point this yr is if Jimmy is playing like the league MVP (doubtful) or his mechanics/understanding of the playbook aren't up to par…which from everything we're hearing/seeing isn't the case either.

Let's stop pretending like Jimmy is some elite QB, he's an okay starter, dude is gonna be gone in a year tops….honestly I don't see this massive downgrade between Jimmy and rookie Lance.

what Lance was asked to do in NDSU is gonna be damn near the same Kyle will ask of him in yr1 (maybe not running so much). Tons of play-action, boots/rollouts, half reads, slants, RPOs, get the ball in play-makers hands on 1st reads, and handing the ball off like 500x.

There's a huge myth going around about potentially "wasting" the season with starting a rookie QB. I've seen many posters say it so it's not just random trolls either.

The elephant in the room is the rookie wage scale. If you take a step back and just look at the super bowl winners over the years after the rookie wage scale you'll notice that unless you're Tom Brady, you have a much higher chance of winning the Super Bowl if your QB is on his rookie deal. Before the rookie wage scale, you have a bad teams having to pay their rookie QBs an absurd amount of money before they prove anything which almost always results in a bad season.

So there is an argument to be made that we would have a better chance to win the Super Bowl if we somehow traded Jimmy G's contract. That doesn't mean Jimmy can't win the Super Bowl this year and that doesn't mean it's certain that Lance would play better than Jimmy did in 2019. And I also don't hate the strategy we're using by keeping Jimmy. I think it's smart to have two potential quality starting QBs on the roster given our history with injuries.

But to argue the same old adage "rookie QBs never win super bowls" is beyond ignorant given what we know about teams that win Super Bowls post wage scale. Our team's success with regards to QB play is predicated on their ability to play, period. Nothing more and nothing less. And there's plenty of examples of rookies being more productive than Jimmy's best season.

So to claim we would be wasting the season starting Lance over Jimmy is basically saying it's impossible for him to play better than Jimmy when there's no you can assume that. We're in a very unique situation with a really good roster. You could make the argument this is the best team to draft a QB in the top 5 of the draft in NFL history. Whoever starts this season will be set up for success and I'll be rooting for them.

A rookie has never won a SB. Lance won't be a rookie next year and we still have 4 years of his contract left

^^Exhibit A.

I'm embarrassed for you that you just responded with that.

Embarrassed, Is it not the truth ?

Originally posted by ritz126:
Starting someone just because he is high round rookie is not a recipe for success. Let him start when hes ready TC and preseason will determine that because based on his college tape i dont see how anyone believes hes is ready to start now and all the talk pre draft regarding Lance supports that theory as well

Why base anything on college tape? Especially old college tape.

You also don't start him because he's a high pick, you start him because he's by far the most physically gifted QB in the room, and the smartest.

Only thing he lacks is experience, well there's a quick way of getting him that. Play him.

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
Why base anything on college tape? Especially old college tape.

You also don't start him because he's a high pick, you start him because he's by far the most physically gifted QB in the room, and the smartest.

Only thing he lacks is experience, well there's a quick way of getting him that. Play him.

what?

because hes a rookie and thats the only tape we have of playing him

the most common busts are physical specimen who dont have the technique. If we didnt have a chance to win the SB i would say start him for experiance but this is a SB ready team now and Lance will have a great opportunity when hes ready but if youre telling me hes ready now there is 0 evidence for that

find one person pre draft who said Lance was ready to start. People are just saying hes ready to start because now hes a 49er not based on rationale just emotion

Originally posted by ritz126:
what?

because hes a rookie and thats the only tape we have of playing him

the most common busts are physical specimen who dont have the technique. If we didnt have a chance to win the SB i would say start him for experiance but this is a SB ready team now and Lance will have a great opportunity when hes ready but if youre telling me hes ready now there is 0 evidence for that

find one person pre draft who said Lance was ready to start. People are just saying hes ready to start because now hes a 49er not based on rationale just emotion

How does the one person or people who's feelings matter the most work for you??

https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/10001864-schefter-49ers-felt-trey-lance-was-smartest-and-most-ready-qb-to-play-in-the-draft.amp.html

I hope he comes in and wins the job, that would mean Shanahan believes he is a better QB thanJG, and gives us our best chance this year to win, and get into the playoffs. That would be great. JG is a pretty good QB when he isn't injured and we know we can win games, including play off games, when is in.

That doesn't mean I believe that we are going to see that though. In NFL history very few QBs come in and light up the league. Fewer start on day one and go through a season as QB1. Fewer still take a team to a playoff game and win. To my knowledge none have gone the distance and won it all.

Trey looks to have the tools, so I am going to be pretty excited to watch him in preseason.

The lack of recent playing time is concerning though, but Shanahan will be seeing him in practice, and in preseason. If he puts him in, great. If he decides he needs more time, or more polish, he is in a great place to get it. This whole thing about not getting anything out of sitting baffles me. He would still be practicing with professionals, running the scout team, and getting some of the best coaching in the NFL. That's like saying Montana and Young saw no benefit to spending the extra time they got with Walsh prior to becoming his starters.

I fully expect to see him play this year, and if he gets a chance to start ,I hope he does so well he keeps the job.

That's not a knock on him, or on JG, it's just wanting the best possible scenario for the team.

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:
The "sit Trey until Jimmy dies of old age" crowd like to imagine that if the Chiefs had had the audacity to play Mahomes his rookie season that they would have imploded and Mahomes would be out of the league by now.

Right? If sitting lead to more success every single QB drafted would be sitting year one.

Only way Trey isn't starting at some point this yr is if Jimmy is playing like the league MVP (doubtful) or his mechanics/understanding of the playbook aren't up to par…which from everything we're hearing/seeing isn't the case either.

Let's stop pretending like Jimmy is some elite QB, he's an okay starter, dude is gonna be gone in a year tops….honestly I don't see this massive downgrade between Jimmy and rookie Lance.

what Lance was asked to do in NDSU is gonna be damn near the same Kyle will ask of him in yr1 (maybe not running so much). Tons of play-action, boots/rollouts, half reads, slants, RPOs, get the ball in play-makers hands on 1st reads, and handing the ball off like 500x.

There's a huge myth going around about potentially "wasting" the season with starting a rookie QB. I've seen many posters say it so it's not just random trolls either.

The elephant in the room is the rookie wage scale. If you take a step back and just look at the super bowl winners over the years after the rookie wage scale you'll notice that unless you're Tom Brady, you have a much higher chance of winning the Super Bowl if your QB is on his rookie deal. Before the rookie wage scale, you have a bad teams having to pay their rookie QBs an absurd amount of money before they prove anything which almost always results in a bad season.

So there is an argument to be made that we would have a better chance to win the Super Bowl if we somehow traded Jimmy G's contract. That doesn't mean Jimmy can't win the Super Bowl this year and that doesn't mean it's certain that Lance would play better than Jimmy did in 2019. And I also don't hate the strategy we're using by keeping Jimmy. I think it's smart to have two potential quality starting QBs on the roster given our history with injuries.

But to argue the same old adage "rookie QBs never win super bowls" is beyond ignorant given what we know about teams that win Super Bowls post wage scale. Our team's success with regards to QB play is predicated on their ability to play, period. Nothing more and nothing less. And there's plenty of examples of rookies being more productive than Jimmy's best season.

So to claim we would be wasting the season starting Lance over Jimmy is basically saying it's impossible for him to play better than Jimmy when there's no you can assume that. We're in a very unique situation with a really good roster. You could make the argument this is the best team to draft a QB in the top 5 of the draft in NFL history. Whoever starts this season will be set up for success and I'll be rooting for them.

A rookie has never won a SB. Lance won't be a rookie next year and we still have 4 years of his contract left

^^Exhibit A.

I'm embarrassed for you that you just responded with that.

Embarrassed, Is it not the truth ?

Just admit you read nothing I wrote.

An adage is "a proverb or short statement expressing a general truth". Yes, it is a fact that no rookie QB has won the super bowl.

The whole point of my post was to explain why that is the case, the affect of the rookie wage scale 10 years ago and it's impact on rookie QBs pre implementation.

Today, unless you're Tom Brady, you're much more likely to win the super bowl with a QB on his rookie contract than a QB on a max deal like Jimmy.

We're seeing rookie QBs every year put up top 10 numbers and having huge impacts and statistical seasons Jimmy could never dream of. Being a rookie or second year or third year doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is your ability to play within your teams system. Especially for a team like us that wins with defense and a complex run game, If Lance started he wouldn't be asked to do much just like Jimmy G in 2/3 playoff games.

What's embarrassing is stating "no rookie QB has ever won the Super Bowl" without understanding the context of that statement and believing it has any barring on who gives us the best chance to win.

Originally posted by 49ers808:
How does the one person or people who's feelings matter the most work for you??

https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/10001864-schefter-49ers-felt-trey-lance-was-smartest-and-most-ready-qb-to-play-in-the-draft.amp.html

if the 49ers really believe that then he will start on day 1 i have my doubts they actually believed that or Jimmy G wouldnt be on the team and we wouldve saved 20+ million in cap space

Im not saying we would be stupid to start him day 1 i am saying based on his resume i dont beleive he is ready

and just an FYI if you look at tmy post history i wanted Lance more than fields and jones

Originally posted by ritz126:

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
Why base anything on college tape? Especially old college tape.

You also don't start him because he's a high pick, you start him because he's by far the most physically gifted QB in the room, and the smartest.

Only thing he lacks is experience, well there's a quick way of getting him that. Play him.

what?

because hes a rookie and thats the only tape we have of playing him

the most common busts are physical specimen who dont have the technique. If we didnt have a chance to win the SB i would say start him for experiance but this is a SB ready team now and Lance will have a great opportunity when hes ready but if youre telling me hes ready now there is 0 evidence for that

find one person pre draft who said Lance was ready to start. People are just saying hes ready to start because now hes a 49er not based on rationale just emotion

It's about what you can already see with his physical ability, and what everyone is saying about his mental acumen.

College football is practically a different sport, yes you use it to project how a prospect might do, but it's really irrelevant once they get into the league.

The most common busts are guys who go onto bad teams and are leaned on before they're ready.

It's not emotion, it's logic. Kyle wants a new element to his offense, he's said it about 10 times this off-season, and he gave it as a reason for not drafting Mac Jones.

Jimmy doesn't give him that element.

It's the Trey era in the Bay area, embrace it.