Dallas Cowboys QB Trey Lance Thread

Originally posted by SF491619232429ERS:
Hey NYniner85, I'm just curious of your opinion. You may have mentioned in this thread but it's a lot to read and may have missed it. Just being a football fan, no rose colored shades when or what do you think would be Treys' or the teams best outcome for him to start? First quarter or the season, after the bye week? Just curious, you put a lot into your post and don't just ramble on calling people idiots simply because their opinion may be different.

I've been saying after the bye week, just a guess at this point. TC will determine a lot.

Originally posted by ritz126:
no

Lawrence, Wilson and Fields are more ready to play in this draft based on body of work in college. Players who arent ready mechanically will not get better by playing they engrain bad habbits which are even harder to remove

again you may be right we will see in TC and preseason but what i have been saying is that based on his college play he isnt ready and i bet if i looked at your post pre draft you said the same thing. the only thing that has changed is hes been drafted by the 49ers

Lawrence and fields have their own mechanical issues all the same. Lawrence didn't run some magical pro-style offense. Fields throwing motion isn't exactly pristine either. I wouldn't say Wilson faced a gauntlet of high level teams or pressure.

You say Trey played lower level competition, so if he played a full year this yr, would you think he's ready to play then? Would beating the s**t out of "lower" competition change anything? I would bet money if he stayed in school he would be the #1 pick in 2022 FWIW.

Also unlike those guys, Lance had basically a full NFL season of retooling his mechanics and preparing like a NFL pro during this whole "lost" season for him. He's basically already done what people are asking him to do by "sitting" for a year (outside of learning this exact scheme).

saying players can't get better when they're not 100% mechanically sound is simply not true, go look at Mahomes/Allen both had pretty bad mechanics when they started playing and have gotten much better while they played. The roster around them is what helps these young players, along with proper play calling.

Based on film from what almost 2 years ago? Kid was 19 years old…based on Josh Allen's film in college he wasn't ready to play either. I'll bet money the Bills are pretty happy they played him and let him learn.

Also IMO based on Lance's film and what he was asked to do, I think he's actually more pro-ready then most think (and I said this pre-draft)…dude was running the same concepts and can do a lot of the same stuff kyle asked from his QBs on this roster.

it's just weird, people complain about lack of reps, yet don't want him to take reps you're acknowledging that s**t matters in terms of development, yet don't want him to develop. Jimmy isn't some elite QB that Lance has to overcome, he's an okay starter. Unless Lance is completely lost he will be the starter at some point this yr.

we will see!

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:
The "sit Trey until Jimmy dies of old age" crowd like to imagine that if the Chiefs had had the audacity to play Mahomes his rookie season that they would have imploded and Mahomes would be out of the league by now.

Right? If sitting lead to more success every single QB drafted would be sitting year one.

Only way Trey isn't starting at some point this yr is if Jimmy is playing like the league MVP (doubtful) or his mechanics/understanding of the playbook aren't up to par…which from everything we're hearing/seeing isn't the case either.

Let's stop pretending like Jimmy is some elite QB, he's an okay starter, dude is gonna be gone in a year tops….honestly I don't see this massive downgrade between Jimmy and rookie Lance.

what Lance was asked to do in NDSU is gonna be damn near the same Kyle will ask of him in yr1 (maybe not running so much). Tons of play-action, boots/rollouts, half reads, slants, RPOs, get the ball in play-makers hands on 1st reads, and handing the ball off like 500x.

There's a huge myth going around about potentially "wasting" the season with starting a rookie QB. I've seen many posters say it so it's not just random trolls either.

The elephant in the room is the rookie wage scale. If you take a step back and just look at the super bowl winners over the years after the rookie wage scale you'll notice that unless you're Tom Brady, you have a much higher chance of winning the Super Bowl if your QB is on his rookie deal. Before the rookie wage scale, you have a bad teams having to pay their rookie QBs an absurd amount of money before they prove anything which almost always results in a bad season.

So there is an argument to be made that we would have a better chance to win the Super Bowl if we somehow traded Jimmy G's contract. That doesn't mean Jimmy can't win the Super Bowl this year and that doesn't mean it's certain that Lance would play better than Jimmy did in 2019. And I also don't hate the strategy we're using by keeping Jimmy. I think it's smart to have two potential quality starting QBs on the roster given our history with injuries.

But to argue the same old adage "rookie QBs never win super bowls" is beyond ignorant given what we know about teams that win Super Bowls post wage scale. Our team's success with regards to QB play is predicated on their ability to play, period. Nothing more and nothing less. And there's plenty of examples of rookies being more productive than Jimmy's best season.

So to claim we would be wasting the season starting Lance over Jimmy is basically saying it's impossible for him to play better than Jimmy when there's no you can assume that. We're in a very unique situation with a really good roster. You could make the argument this is the best team to draft a QB in the top 5 of the draft in NFL history. Whoever starts this season will be set up for success and I'll be rooting for them.

A rookie has never won a SB. Lance won't be a rookie next year and we still have 4 years of his contract left

^^Exhibit A.

I'm embarrassed for you that you just responded with that.

Embarrassed, Is it not the truth ?

Just admit you read nothing I wrote.

An adage is "a proverb or short statement expressing a general truth". Yes, it is a fact that no rookie QB has won the super bowl.

The whole point of my post was to explain why that is the case, the affect of the rookie wage scale 10 years ago and it's impact on rookie QBs pre implementation.

Today, unless you're Tom Brady, you're much more likely to win the super bowl with a QB on his rookie contract than a QB on a max deal like Jimmy.

We're seeing rookie QBs every year put up top 10 numbers and having huge impacts and statistical seasons Jimmy could never dream of. Being a rookie or second year or third year doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is your ability to play within your teams system. Especially for a team like us that wins with defense and a complex run game, If Lance started he wouldn't be asked to do much just like Jimmy G in 2/3 playoff games.

What's embarrassing is stating "no rookie QB has ever won the Super Bowl" without understanding the context of that statement and believing it has any barring on who gives us the best chance to win.

No matter what context you try to add , it has never happened and mostly likely not happen this year.

I don't care how much you hype a 10k/1 bet, I'm not banking on it.

Good. That's why you're a couch potato and NOT A COACH. Use your eyes and your brain. Trey has it all over Jimmy who is damaged goods and can't outrun anyone. Trey is bigger, much faster, has a much stronger arm and isn't afraid to throw it 50 yards. He did to Kittle and now Kittle calls him a freak and can't wait to catch passes from him. We're not going to win anything with Jimmy as a statue. His train has left the station. It would be a complete waste of time to put Jimmy on the field and eliminate a big complementary part of the RUNNING GAME. Once Niner fans actually see Trey run, they'll understand the futility of wasting time on Jimmy. He's gone, he just hasn't left yet. He left when he refused to play the last three games last season. Those who don't believe that don't know Kyle...

Originally posted by NYniner85:
I've been saying after the bye week, just a guess at this point. TC will determine a lot.

I hope Trey gets as many reps with the first team as Jimmy during TC. Honestly don't know if that's gonna happen or possible. If it's a real competition, then Kyle's gotta make it happen. Really cant wait to see this kids rocket arm in preseason.

50/50 who starts week 1

Originally posted by NinerBuff:
50/50 who starts week 1

Time to get working on the charts

Originally posted by TheGore49er:

Originally posted by NinerBuff:
50/50 who starts week 1

Time to get working on the charts

Need some more polling data

TC and preseason will definitely tell us more about how ready he is.

The players will also have a say on who gets to start. They will see if he's ready, and if Kyle is just making a switch just for the sake of making a switch, that won't go over well. And I really doubt Kyle will do that anyway.

It will be Jimmy's job to lose. If the team is healthy, Jimmy will play at least good enough to not merit being benched. I have a hard time seeing Jimmy not playing at least at an above average level with all these weapons now on offense, and a better OL.

Injury is most likely going to be the only reason we switch to Trey.

If Jimmy Is the starter to begin with, I don't see Kyle benching him for Trey at any point of the season unless Jimmy Is struggling/fails to stay healthy. Who ever starts day 1 will most likely play out the entire season.

Originally posted by TheGore49er:
TC and preseason will definitely tell us more about how ready he is.

The players will also have a say on who gets to start. They will see if he's ready, and if Kyle is just making a switch just for the sake of making a switch, that won't go over well. And I really doubt Kyle will do that anyway.

It will be Jimmy's job to lose. If the team is healthy, Jimmy will play at least good enough to not merit being benched. I have a hard time seeing Jimmy not playing at least at an above average level with all these weapons now on offense, and a better OL.

Injury is most likely going to be the only reason we switch to Trey.

Pay attention. It Just came out that Kyle was not happy that he didn't get Stafford. If he landed Stafford then Jimmy was gone immediately. How in the hell does this tell you that it's Jimmy's to loose. Kyle is and has been done with Jimmy glassoroppolo 2 picks a game. Honestly Jimmy needs gone now. Get some draft picks and move on.

Originally posted by socal1632:
Pay attention. It Just came out that Kyle was not happy that he didn't get Stafford. If he landed Stafford then Jimmy was gone immediately. How in the hell does this tell you that it's Jimmy's to loose. Kyle is and has been done with Jimmy glassoroppolo 2 picks a game. Honestly Jimmy needs gone now. Get some draft picks and move on.

I understand what you're saying, but I think you're conflating trading for Stafford (immediate upgrade at QB1) and long-term upgrade in Lance.

It appears as though Stafford was plan A this off-season. Once they missed out on Stafford, the priority became securing a top 5 pick. With Stafford, it makes no sense to be paying 2 high priced starting QBs. With Lance, you don't have to jettison Jimmy's contract. They may still do it, but Plan B has some flexibility with Jimmy, where Plan A has none.

Originally posted by frenchtoast:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:
The "sit Trey until Jimmy dies of old age" crowd like to imagine that if the Chiefs had had the audacity to play Mahomes his rookie season that they would have imploded and Mahomes would be out of the league by now.

Right? If sitting lead to more success every single QB drafted would be sitting year one.

Only way Trey isn't starting at some point this yr is if Jimmy is playing like the league MVP (doubtful) or his mechanics/understanding of the playbook aren't up to par…which from everything we're hearing/seeing isn't the case either.

Let's stop pretending like Jimmy is some elite QB, he's an okay starter, dude is gonna be gone in a year tops….honestly I don't see this massive downgrade between Jimmy and rookie Lance.

what Lance was asked to do in NDSU is gonna be damn near the same Kyle will ask of him in yr1 (maybe not running so much). Tons of play-action, boots/rollouts, half reads, slants, RPOs, get the ball in play-makers hands on 1st reads, and handing the ball off like 500x.

There's a huge myth going around about potentially "wasting" the season with starting a rookie QB. I've seen many posters say it so it's not just random trolls either.

The elephant in the room is the rookie wage scale. If you take a step back and just look at the super bowl winners over the years after the rookie wage scale you'll notice that unless you're Tom Brady, you have a much higher chance of winning the Super Bowl if your QB is on his rookie deal. Before the rookie wage scale, you have a bad teams having to pay their rookie QBs an absurd amount of money before they prove anything which almost always results in a bad season.

So there is an argument to be made that we would have a better chance to win the Super Bowl if we somehow traded Jimmy G's contract. That doesn't mean Jimmy can't win the Super Bowl this year and that doesn't mean it's certain that Lance would play better than Jimmy did in 2019. And I also don't hate the strategy we're using by keeping Jimmy. I think it's smart to have two potential quality starting QBs on the roster given our history with injuries.

But to argue the same old adage "rookie QBs never win super bowls" is beyond ignorant given what we know about teams that win Super Bowls post wage scale. Our team's success with regards to QB play is predicated on their ability to play, period. Nothing more and nothing less. And there's plenty of examples of rookies being more productive than Jimmy's best season.

So to claim we would be wasting the season starting Lance over Jimmy is basically saying it's impossible for him to play better than Jimmy when there's no you can assume that. We're in a very unique situation with a really good roster. You could make the argument this is the best team to draft a QB in the top 5 of the draft in NFL history. Whoever starts this season will be set up for success and I'll be rooting for them.

A rookie has never won a SB. Lance won't be a rookie next year and we still have 4 years of his contract left

^^Exhibit A.

I'm embarrassed for you that you just responded with that.

Embarrassed, Is it not the truth ?

Just admit you read nothing I wrote.

An adage is "a proverb or short statement expressing a general truth". Yes, it is a fact that no rookie QB has won the super bowl.

The whole point of my post was to explain why that is the case, the affect of the rookie wage scale 10 years ago and it's impact on rookie QBs pre implementation.

Today, unless you're Tom Brady, you're much more likely to win the super bowl with a QB on his rookie contract than a QB on a max deal like Jimmy.

We're seeing rookie QBs every year put up top 10 numbers and having huge impacts and statistical seasons Jimmy could never dream of. Being a rookie or second year or third year doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is your ability to play within your teams system. Especially for a team like us that wins with defense and a complex run game, If Lance started he wouldn't be asked to do much just like Jimmy G in 2/3 playoff games.

What's embarrassing is stating "no rookie QB has ever won the Super Bowl" without understanding the context of that statement and believing it has any barring on who gives us the best chance to win.

No matter what context you try to add , it has never happened and mostly likely not happen this year.

I don't care how much you hype a 10k/1 bet, I'm not banking on it.

Good. That's why you're a couch potato and NOT A COACH. Use your eyes and your brain. Trey has it all over Jimmy who is damaged goods and can't outrun anyone. Trey is bigger, much faster, has a much stronger arm and isn't afraid to throw it 50 yards. He did to Kittle and now Kittle calls him a freak and can't wait to catch passes from him. We're not going to win anything with Jimmy as a statue. His train has left the station. It would be a complete waste of time to put Jimmy on the field and eliminate a big complementary part of the RUNNING GAME. Once Niner fans actually see Trey run, they'll understand the futility of wasting time on Jimmy. He's gone, he just hasn't left yet. He left when he refused to play the last three games last season. Those who don't believe that don't know Kyle...

I'm actually more coach than couch lol

but you're basing your decisions on feelings here. It's all good

Originally posted by NinerBuff:

Originally posted by socal1632:
Pay attention. It Just came out that Kyle was not happy that he didn't get Stafford. If he landed Stafford then Jimmy was gone immediately. How in the hell does this tell you that it's Jimmy's to loose. Kyle is and has been done with Jimmy glassoroppolo 2 picks a game. Honestly Jimmy needs gone now. Get some draft picks and move on.

I understand what you're saying, but I think you're conflating trading for Stafford (immediate upgrade at QB1) and long-term upgrade in Lance.

It appears as though Stafford was plan A this off-season. Once they missed out on Stafford, the priority became securing a top 5 pick. With Stafford, it makes no sense to be paying 2 high priced starting QBs. With Lance, you don't have to jettison Jimmy's contract. They may still do it, but Plan B has some flexibility with Jimmy, where Plan A has none.

Watson was plan A

Originally posted by Sickaa:
If Jimmy Is the starter to begin with, I don't see Kyle benching him for Trey at any point of the season unless Jimmy Is struggling/fails to stay healthy. Who ever starts day 1 will most likely play out the entire season.

Tend to agree with this. I think Lance has quite a lot to learn. That being said, I guess there is a reasonable chance of Garoppolo picking up an injury.

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by Sickaa:
If Jimmy Is the starter to begin with, I don't see Kyle benching him for Trey at any point of the season unless Jimmy Is struggling/fails to stay healthy. Who ever starts day 1 will most likely play out the entire season.

Tend to agree with this. I think Lance has quite a lot to learn. That being said, I guess there is a reasonable chance of Garoppolo picking up an injury.

This. We have a perfect scenario so there's absolutely zero reason to rush Trey. Let Trey take the Mahomes route and hopefully Jimmy can net us some capital