Dallas Cowboys QB Trey Lance Thread

Originally posted by elguapo:
He will get that experience but to say that is the only way to improve is false.

No doubt, but he has to get reps during games in order to adapt to the NFL before just getting thrown in.

Originally posted by 808niner4lyphe:

Originally posted by K1ngAsD3rek:

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by Sickaa:
If Jimmy Is the starter to begin with, I don't see Kyle benching him for Trey at any point of the season unless Jimmy Is struggling/fails to stay healthy. Who ever starts day 1 will most likely play out the entire season.

Tend to agree with this. I think Lance has quite a lot to learn. That being said, I guess there is a reasonable chance of Garoppolo picking up an injury.

This. We have a perfect scenario so there's absolutely zero reason to rush Trey. Let Trey take the Mahomes route and hopefully Jimmy can net us some capital

This x 1000. The best way to go about it.

Meh. If anyone was going to be knocking down our door for Jimmy, he'd be gone by now. After a game or two,...simply play the guy that gives us the best chance for success. Don't rush Trey,...and don't hurt the team milking whatever you can out of Jimmy. This is certainly the best way to go about it.

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

Originally posted by elguapo:

Originally posted by LottDMontanaO:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Blake_Fever:
It's safe to say we all want Trey to succeed, but it's amazing the split on when to start him. I'm all for sitting him until he's ready or if Jimmy gets hurt. Hell, if Jimmy gets hurt, Rosen might be the first QB off the bench.

Generally, the only thing that puts a rookie QB on the field immediately is a terrible rebuilding team. The Jags with Lawrence and the Jets with Wilson.

For teams with playoff aspirations, it's TOO RISKY to turn the team over to a rookie from day 1. The Bears already announces Dalton the starter over Fields. Why? To attempt to save their season and jobs by starting the veteran. When Dalton falters, Fields will get his shot, but only when something forces their hand.

People who want to start Lance point to the handful of instances where it's worked, ignoring the dozens of times it hasn't.

The Niners have the luxury of playing to win now and in the future. I can't think of a better situation to be in.

Relax, guys.

Excellent and rational post

Agreed, good post. Good reasoning, good football sense & knowledge. Nice to see here in NT.

It's funny how's some fans claim Trey can only get better with game reps and then admit he HAS GOTTEN BETTER in the time since his last game working on his mechanics and so on (without live game reps). Do they even hear themselves??

I don't see what is contradictory about those statements? You can learn and improve on a lot of things (like throwing mechanics, film study, etc.) without playing, but there are some things you can only learn from being on the field and getting actual in-game experience.

If we imagine two different scenarios: one where Trey Lance plays 10+ games this year and one where he sits all year, which is more likely to result in him being a better player in year 2? In my opinion, it's the former and I don't think that scenario requires us to sacrifice our shot at winning the Super Bowl this year. In part because I just don't think the Jimmy we've seen for the majority of his time here is good enough to win a Super Bowl unless a ton of things bounce in our favor, so our odds of winning it are low whether we start Trey or not. I also don't think it's likely that Trey would be hurt by starting too early, because I don't see Kyle asking him to do too much right away. We have Trey on a rookie contract for the next 5 years, we should make every attempt to maximize that and get him rolling as soon as possible.

Unfortunately, however this unfolds, we won't know how the alternatives would have played out. It's easy to point at situations like Mahomes and say that proves that a QB benefits from sitting, but nobody knows how Mahomes would have performed if he had taken over the job mid-season rather than sitting. The Chargers planned on sitting Herbert last year, but then Tyrod was injured and now nobody thinks that Herbert needed to sit.

Originally posted by Polkadots:
If anyone has said he can only get better with game reps, I think they are referring to specific improvements (speed of the game, diagnosing an NFL defense at the LOS, etc.). I don't think they mean he can only improve every aspect of his game in a live game setting. That would be a ridiculous take. In essence, such a perspective would render practices, film study, etc., useless.

I agree of course every player will get better with real experience but the point being a lot of people have not said that at all. They have said he will not improve by sitting on the bench whereas a lot of us fans were saying that coaches and reps, getting familiar with his teammates and their game speed is very important. Haven't you seen the arguments people have on this thread? "He's been sitting for two years" but he's been improving. I'd rather him be familiar with the playbook so he can just come in hot instead of taking his usual lumps if he started game one. That's what I'm saying.

he is improving as we speak. Also, I think it's safe to say that Mahomes and Aaron Rodgers if they started right away would've taken more lumps than if they were more familiar with the playbook and practices and started later on which they did. That seems like common sense no? Especially when it's a known fact that Kyle Shanahan's offense takes a while to grasp. I want him ready to go without some of the lumps if he had started week 1.

Don't you agree that he most likely would not make some of the common mistakes a quarterback would make if he started a little later as opposed to week one? Especially in Kyle Shanahan's offense? I thought that was a fact because Kyle has said it and other quarterbacks have voiced this about his offenses as well.

Originally posted by elguapo:
Don't you agree that he most likely would not make some of the common mistakes a quarterback would make if he started a little later as opposed to week one? Especially in Kyle Shanahan's offense? I thought that was a fact because Kyle has said it and other quarterbacks have voiced this about his offenses as well.

I can't answer that. Everyone is different. I'd think it is more likely, yes. On the flip side though, an argument can be made making those mistakes early in the year might be less costly, as well as provide Trey a valuable learning experience that may pay dividends later in the year.

Also, Forza Azzurri

Originally posted by Polkadots:

Originally posted by elguapo:
Don't you agree that he most likely would not make some of the common mistakes a quarterback would make if he started a little later as opposed to week one? Especially in Kyle Shanahan's offense? I thought that was a fact because Kyle has said it and other quarterbacks have voiced this about his offenses as well.

I can't answer that. Everyone is different. I'd think it is more likely, yes. On the flip side though, an argument can be made making those mistakes early in the year might be less costly, as well as provide Trey a valuable learning experience that may pay dividends later in the year.

Also, Forza Azzurri

Very true, fair enough......and HELL YEAHHHHHHH Polka I'm still jacked up celebrating with my fellow gineas

I hope he pans out to be a great championship qb making me eat hella crow.

Originally posted by DRCHOWDER:
I hope he pans out to be a great championship qb making me eat hella crow.

I think with our top 3 roster he will help win us 2-3 SBs this decade

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

Originally posted by elguapo:

Originally posted by LottDMontanaO:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Blake_Fever:
It's safe to say we all want Trey to succeed, but it's amazing the split on when to start him. I'm all for sitting him until he's ready or if Jimmy gets hurt. Hell, if Jimmy gets hurt, Rosen might be the first QB off the bench.

Generally, the only thing that puts a rookie QB on the field immediately is a terrible rebuilding team. The Jags with Lawrence and the Jets with Wilson.

For teams with playoff aspirations, it's TOO RISKY to turn the team over to a rookie from day 1. The Bears already announces Dalton the starter over Fields. Why? To attempt to save their season and jobs by starting the veteran. When Dalton falters, Fields will get his shot, but only when something forces their hand.

People who want to start Lance point to the handful of instances where it's worked, ignoring the dozens of times it hasn't.

The Niners have the luxury of playing to win now and in the future. I can't think of a better situation to be in.

Relax, guys.

Excellent and rational post

Agreed, good post. Good reasoning, good football sense & knowledge. Nice to see here in NT.

It's funny how's some fans claim Trey can only get better with game reps and then admit he HAS GOTTEN BETTER in the time since his last game working on his mechanics and so on (without live game reps). Do they even hear themselves??

I don't see what is contradictory about those statements? You can learn and improve on a lot of things (like throwing mechanics, film study, etc.) without playing, but there are some things you can only learn from being on the field and getting actual in-game experience.

If we imagine two different scenarios: one where Trey Lance plays 10+ games this year and one where he sits all year, which is more likely to result in him being a better player in year 2? In my opinion, it's the former and I don't think that scenario requires us to sacrifice our shot at winning the Super Bowl this year. In part because I just don't think the Jimmy we've seen for the majority of his time here is good enough to win a Super Bowl unless a ton of things bounce in our favor, so our odds of winning it are low whether we start Trey or not. I also don't think it's likely that Trey would be hurt by starting too early, because I don't see Kyle asking him to do too much right away. We have Trey on a rookie contract for the next 5 years, we should make every attempt to maximize that and get him rolling as soon as possible.

Unfortunately, however this unfolds, we won't know how the alternatives would have played out. It's easy to point at situations like Mahomes and say that proves that a QB benefits from sitting, but nobody knows how Mahomes would have performed if he had taken over the job mid-season rather than sitting. The Chargers planned on sitting Herbert last year, but then Tyrod was injured and now nobody thinks that Herbert needed to sit.

This is a contender for post of the year. Well articulated and absolutely spot on.

The only point I'd add is that the scheme and playbook will alter fairly dramatically going from Jimmy to Trey, the earlier we go to it the better the whole team will be, not just Trey.

Originally posted by elguapo:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by elguapo:

Originally posted by LottDMontanaO:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Blake_Fever:
It's safe to say we all want Trey to succeed, but it's amazing the split on when to start him. I'm all for sitting him until he's ready or if Jimmy gets hurt. Hell, if Jimmy gets hurt, Rosen might be the first QB off the bench.

Generally, the only thing that puts a rookie QB on the field immediately is a terrible rebuilding team. The Jags with Lawrence and the Jets with Wilson.

For teams with playoff aspirations, it's TOO RISKY to turn the team over to a rookie from day 1. The Bears already announces Dalton the starter over Fields. Why? To attempt to save their season and jobs by starting the veteran. When Dalton falters, Fields will get his shot, but only when something forces their hand.

People who want to start Lance point to the handful of instances where it's worked, ignoring the dozens of times it hasn't.

The Niners have the luxury of playing to win now and in the future. I can't think of a better situation to be in.

Relax, guys.

Excellent and rational post

Agreed, good post. Good reasoning, good football sense & knowledge. Nice to see here in NT.

It's funny how's some fans claim Trey can only get better with game reps and then admit he HAS GOTTEN BETTER in the time since his last game working on his mechanics and so on (without live game reps). Do they even hear themselves??

Somehow he will get worse working with NFL staff and etc is what I've been told

I know right even though everybody from coaches to players said he has improved.....but yeah, let's believe some fans on here instead

LOL yeah that's what everyone has said

What Trey has done this past "lost" season is basically what he would have done during this "lost" season....work on mechanics and learn to prepare like a pro. He's actually done more with mechanics than what he would probably be able to do during the season.

People don't get it, most of your improvements with technique/mechanics happen in a players off season. They go to position coach/guru camps during the off season...QBs hire guys like Avery, Beck, Palmer etc. OL go to Mayweather's camps. CB/WR go to see guys like Rischad Whitfield etc etc.

Yes they have position coaches and of course they help during the season, the vast majorly of practices are installing the weekly playbook, film, and recovery.

Originally posted by Jeepzilla:
https://www.49erswebzone.com/articles/148139-jerry-rice-discusses-49ers-situation-expectations-brandon-aiyuk/

"I don't know what the situation is going to be, how competitive it's going to be, or if they're going to let Trey Lance sit for a little while where he can gain all that knowledge and then get ready to take on that starting job."

NY, can you at least quit repeating over and over over and over and over that "Trey won't learn anything sitting on the bench" now and put that part to bed…

On when Trey starts…
I would think he will start when Kyle decides, not??
However, If they are winning games, even by a point or two, I really don't see a QB change to an unknown in the hopes that they beat a team by more points like you and a some others are insisting..
yes, if tthey are winning, but not by enough points for you all we should still switch QB's…???
yea that'd be genius coaching and not tear a locker room apart… lol

Nah I think all post it more...because it seems to bother you so much. Rice has said so much and it usually ends up being the opposite of what happens like I said it will play itself out in TC.

Yes I expect Lance to start when Kyle thinks he's ready...I HAVE NEVER said anything different. Like other reports being thrown out there, it's up to Lance not Jimmy.

If we're winning games because of our defense and running the ball all game, why can't Lance do that all the same though? You can absolutely win games not because of QB play. IF Jimmy is continuing with his high INT % maybe Kyle thinks Lance who doesn't turn the ball over might be just as affective?

Same goes if Lance clearly looks like the better guy in TC and they still go with Jimmy....the locker room sees both players and I'm sure they'd love to see the lesser player start just because lol.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
^^^Agreed. I just hope that when the season starts and Jimmy is our QB, that the loud minority of those beating the drum for Trey don't end up basket cases…and come down with PTSD because Trey isn't starting. It is amazing how the vocal few have convinced themselves that Trey is going to start and literally tear up the NFL. Just a suggestion, but those pining for Trey to be our starter from day 1, please pull for JG to do well instead of trashing him. If he deserves to start….and i think he will, we ALL need to be behind him.

Likewise, it Trey starts, i hope ALL get behind him. Like K1ng and Blake fever above, i also am concerned about Trey and his lack of PT except for one yr at NDSU. Somehow, that just doesn't seem to translate into a day one starter in the NFL, when you have a QB who is 23-8 (or whatever it is) as a starter.

As mentioned earlier, if Trey is the better QB and by a wide margin, that will be clear to everyone. But if as i suspect, Jimmy is the better Qb, it would be disappointing if fans don't get behind him 100%. I, too , am anxious to see Trey play. But i am way more interested in taking the talent we have on the team at present, and winning it all…and my guess is JG is better positioned to do that based on NFL playing time, and working in Kyle's system.

It would be a shame if fans didn't support the guy we have out on the field as QB. Everyone's goal is to win the SB this yr. Experience is probably going to be the determining factor. Plus , it is to the advantage of us all for JG to have a career yr here…and not to get injured. If that happens….we are in great shape. Best situation of all 32 teams in the NFL at QB this yr.

Speaking for myself, I never said he's gonna tear up the league YR1...I already know Jimmy isn't gonna do that, so who cares?

I also never said Trey has to play week 1, in fact I find that highly unlikely...my whole debate in here has been that people think Lance will be more successful by not playing football this yr. Like holding a clipboard for a full year is gonna vastly improve and develop him as a QB...if that was the case no 1st rd QB would play yr 1.

I don't even know who is championing for him to be the day 1 starter in here? Maybe one poster?

That's the problem with this debate (and most in here) people get so defensive and misinterpret what is actually be discussed (I do it as well)...MOST are saying Lance should play at some point and that getting live snaps will help him develop quicker. Some in here take that as Jimmy is junk and Lance should start day 1 no matter what, which simply isn't true. IF Kyle is comfortable with Lance running the offense he wants to run with him YR1, he will be the starter sooner than later...and there's not really much Jimmy can do about it.

If they thought Jimmy was the better QB they wouldn't have given up 3 1sts and a 3rd, if it was purely about health they would have just signed an high end backup like Dalton or Fitz.

Not sure who in here wouldn't support whomever is the QB day 1? I think it's silly to even assume that we as fan would root against someone....the whole we can't win a SB with Lance is also silly. Lance can do s**t Jimmy just isn't capable of doing...We're gonna win a Super Bowl because of the overall roster (staying healthy), Kyle, and of course some luck.

Originally posted by elguapo:
He will get that experience but to say that is the only way to improve is false. These same people probably were the same ones denying that Mahomes or Aaron Rodgers improved with the time they spent on the bench It is possible to work out some mechanics flaws and just flaws in your game without actually playing.

Rogers had to completely change his mechanics, go look at him in Cal vs now. That was part of the reason he dropped. OH and they had Brett Favre.

Same with Mahomes overall...his footwork was awful. He ran an air raid offense and played backyard football at Texas Tech, also anyone thinking Mahomes wouldn't be Mahomes now, if he started YR1 is only fooling themselves. Lance has much better mechanics then both coming out of college and he ran damn near the same concepts that Kyle runs here. There's a reason why people are saying he's much more pro-ready, then his passing attempts show. He was doing stuff at the LOS pre-snap that not a lot of college QBs do. Having had calls pre-snap then adjusting the play based on the look. Taking snaps under center. Full progressions etc.

No one is saying he won't work on some things, BUT he will improve MUCH more if he actually plays football...where a player gets drafted determines how a player turns out way more than if they sit for a yr. IMO he will play at some point this yr.

"It's hard to get better at football...by not playing football" Kyle Shanahan

Originally posted by 49ersRing:
I don't see what is contradictory about those statements? You can learn and improve on a lot of things (like throwing mechanics, film study, etc.) without playing, but there are some things you can only learn from being on the field and getting actual in-game experience.

If we imagine two different scenarios: one where Trey Lance plays 10+ games this year and one where he sits all year, which is more likely to result in him being a better player in year 2? In my opinion, it's the former and I don't think that scenario requires us to sacrifice our shot at winning the Super Bowl this year. In part because I just don't think the Jimmy we've seen for the majority of his time here is good enough to win a Super Bowl unless a ton of things bounce in our favor, so our odds of winning it are low whether we start Trey or not. I also don't think it's likely that Trey would be hurt by starting too early, because I don't see Kyle asking him to do too much right away. We have Trey on a rookie contract for the next 5 years, we should make every attempt to maximize that and get him rolling as soon as possible.

Unfortunately, however this unfolds, we won't know how the alternatives would have played out. It's easy to point at situations like Mahomes and say that proves that a QB benefits from sitting, but nobody knows how Mahomes would have performed if he had taken over the job mid-season rather than sitting. The Chargers planned on sitting Herbert last year, but then Tyrod was injured and now nobody thinks that Herbert needed to sit.

Literally this is exactly what I've been trying to say! You're just way better at saying it lol

Bravo, sir

How about we just wait and see how Trey performs in actual padded practice? Why everyone is in such a hurry is beyond me. Even with his rookie contract, if he's a franchise QB paying him will be no problem.