Dallas Cowboys QB Trey Lance Thread

Originally posted by Shorteous:
Sure, but his tools like arm strength and mobility haven't proven to meet the hype. So recalculating those adjusts the ceiling.

honestly Purdy has more escapability than Lance, more pocket awareness, and I'd to hard to convince that Trey has a better intermediate and deep ball.

We're not disagreeing. Trey's arm talent and mobility is overrated considerably IMO. I've repeatedly argued that comparisons with Josh Allen and Mahomes type unicorns is absurd. Same with Fields arm talent… but not his mobility. Fields has elite running ability and it has translated.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by 49ers81:

Originally posted by 49erKing:
Did he legitimately beat out Brock for QB1 last year during TC? If so, that is saying something right, considering Brock went bonkers in the reg season and playoffs.

In an interview with Tim Kawakami Kyle fairly strongly intimated that Purdy had outplayed Lance in practice last year but because they had invested so much in Lance draft wise and hadn't actually seen Purdy do what he was doing in practice in a game, and because they knew Lance needed the reps, they committed to him as the starter that year. In a "fair" competition he wouldn't have beaten put Jimmy, he wouldn't have beaten out Purdy, and he might not even have beaten out Sudfield. No rap against Lance. He didn't force the team to draft him where they did, and he came in with less experience at the position than ANY QB who has ever been drafted so high in the modern era.

Not sure what the next step will be. If I'm not mistaken Darnold and Allen are only here on one-year contracts, while Lance still has two years left on his deal. Assuming Brock stays healthy and continues on his trajectory from last year they are still going to need QB's next season. With as little as they are paying Brock, they could afford to carry Lance for another year if Darnold decides to go looking for another starting gig. Be interesting to see what happens.

Kyle called run QB plays until Lance got injured. check
Jimmy always gets injured. check
Now Kyle gets to play the QB he wanted to all along.

Agree, to a certain extent. Brock is Jimmy with mobility and the ability to extend plays. Quick release, accurate in the short to mid range, and just wins games like Jimmy. You possibly can even say Brock is like Kirk Cousins with a lesser arm but better mobility.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
I still dont buy he would've beat Jimmy out. I also don't think the team would've dealt Jimmy simply because I think they let their personal feelings cloud their judgment of his value. John and Kyle need work on being more like Walsh in that regard.

Agree we might have overvalued Jimmy leading to a possible failure in trading him. I think Jones beats him out or at least is close enough to play him without making waves though. Mac is a better decision maker IMO. We'll never know in any case. Happy with Purdy and we'll see where it leads.

Originally posted by D0PEMAN:
Maybe the plan is to let Lance develop like Rodgers did behind Favre.

Even if Lance is QB3, he's still valuable to this team. Let him exercise his demons on the low.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
Agree we might have overvalued Jimmy leading to a possible failure in trading him. I think Jones beats him out or at least is close enough to play him without making waves though. Mac is a better decision maker IMO. We'll never know in any case. Happy with Purdy and we'll see where it leads.

We won't know. Just like we won't know how Ray Lewis would've looked in Red and Gold.

Only thing we do know with Lance being here instead of Mac is that Brock doesn't have to worry about being Nancy Kerrigan'd in practice.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
We won't know. Just like we won't know how Ray Lewis would've looked in Red and Gold.

Only thing we do know with Lance being here instead of Mac is that Brock doesn't have to worry about being Nancy Kerrigan'd in practice.

Lol. Don't rule out a plot by the GEQBUS.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
Lol. Don't rule out a plot by the GEQBUS.

Hes too busy seeing Casper everywhere to do anything

Originally posted by 49ers81:

Originally posted by 49erKing:
Did he legitimately beat out Brock for QB1 last year during TC? If so, that is saying something right, considering Brock went bonkers in the reg season and playoffs.

In an interview with Tim Kawakami Kyle fairly strongly intimated that Purdy had outplayed Lance in practice last year but because they had invested so much in Lance draft wise and hadn't actually seen Purdy do what he was doing in practice in a game, and because they knew Lance needed the reps, they committed to him as the starter that year. In a "fair" competition he wouldn't have beaten put Jimmy, he wouldn't have beaten out Purdy, and he might not even have beaten out Sudfield. No rap against Lance. He didn't force the team to draft him where they did, and he came in with less experience at the position than ANY QB who has ever been drafted so high in the modern era.

Not sure what the next step will be. If I'm not mistaken Darnold and Allen are only here on one-year contracts, while Lance still has two years left on his deal. Assuming Brock stays healthy and continues on his trajectory from last year they are still going to need QB's next season. With as little as they are paying Brock, they could afford to carry Lance for another year if Darnold decides to go looking for another starting gig. Be interesting to see what happens.

If Trey is a disappointment the way Brock was a success, then it's a wash and move forward. They have moved forward by getting Sam and Allen - and still keeping Trey and continuing to invest Reps into him. So I don't see ShanaLynch having given up on Trey. In addition, as you said, they *can carry* Lance if he's worth carrying because of Brock's minimal salary. From what I've seen, he's worth it (for now) I want to see him to continue to improve in the Denver game. I think they should keep Trey (if he continues to improve) since he does have a 2+ year contract and Sam and Allen are on one year prove it contracts.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
Agree we might have overvalued Jimmy leading to a possible failure in trading him. I think Jones beats him out or at least is close enough to play him without making waves though. Mac is a better decision maker IMO. We'll never know in any case. Happy with Purdy and we'll see where it leads.

I truly believe Mac starts and wins the HOU game Ala Trey but Jimmy never gets his job back that season. They let Jimmy heal his shoulder/thumb and Mac is playing for us in the playoffs instead of NE.

like you, I too am very happy with Purdy and would take him over the other 3

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by 49ers81:

Originally posted by 49erKing:
Did he legitimately beat out Brock for QB1 last year during TC? If so, that is saying something right, considering Brock went bonkers in the reg season and playoffs.

In an interview with Tim Kawakami Kyle fairly strongly intimated that Purdy had outplayed Lance in practice last year but because they had invested so much in Lance draft wise and hadn't actually seen Purdy do what he was doing in practice in a game, and because they knew Lance needed the reps, they committed to him as the starter that year. In a "fair" competition he wouldn't have beaten put Jimmy, he wouldn't have beaten out Purdy, and he might not even have beaten out Sudfield. No rap against Lance. He didn't force the team to draft him where they did, and he came in with less experience at the position than ANY QB who has ever been drafted so high in the modern era.

Not sure what the next step will be. If I'm not mistaken Darnold and Allen are only here on one-year contracts, while Lance still has two years left on his deal. Assuming Brock stays healthy and continues on his trajectory from last year they are still going to need QB's next season. With as little as they are paying Brock, they could afford to carry Lance for another year if Darnold decides to go looking for another starting gig. Be interesting to see what happens.

If Trey is a disappointment the way Brock was a success, then it's a wash and move forward. They have moved forward by getting Sam and Allen - and still keeping Trey and continuing to invest Reps into him. So I don't see ShanaLynch having given up on Trey. In addition, as you said, they *can carry* Lance if he's worth carrying because of Brock's minimal salary. From what I've seen, he's worth it (for now) I want to see him to continue to improve in the Denver game. I think they should keep Trey (if he continues to improve) since he does have a 2+ year contract and Sam and Allen are on one year prove it contracts.

Yeah if Purdy pans out then really who cares right? From what I see, Lance is competing with Darnold for the backup and the real question is if you believe Lance's upside is enough to supplant Darnold for this season. I'm not so sure.

Originally posted by BOI49er:
For all the nice things Kyle has to say about Garoppolo, he was tired of him folding like a cheap suit every time it got to crunch time late in big games where there is no tomorrow. He was determined to move on. Due to a crazy amount of injuries, they found themselves drafting at number 12. They're too good to ever think they'd be that high again, so they decided this was the time to take a shot at quarterback. Twelve wasn't going to do it, and knowing you Must have a quarterback, they went all in and moved up. Trey had more to show physically than Mac, so they looked for signs his decision makeing was also good in college, and stated he was the better mentally also between the two of them. The problem here is that just because you are serviceable at checkers, which is college defenses, that does not mean they can make you a world beater at chess. Did they think it was a gamble? Of course they did. But they were desperate to move on from Jimmy, so they took their shot.

They knew they couldn't put a lot on Trey's shoulders his first year without ruining him, so they just tried to insert him in spot situations. That was ok, but since he wasn't very far along, they tried to use his legs. But, of course, those damn NFL defenses changed what they did accordingly when he came in. Well, that didn't work. OK, wait until next year, when he can get his second off season work.

That didn't go too well. Uh Oh. Now we got some serious doubts creeping in. Well, no option now but to see if he can play his way out of it. Start him in Chicago against a very weak team, and he $hits the bed. Yeah, I know, it rained. Whatever. If it was baseball, they'd have gone home. It's football, and you've still got to get it done. Next game, they know he still can't get it done in the air, so while he's still learning that, our only chance to win the game, and we still need to win the game, is to run him. Snap goes his ankle. Crap. Back to Jimmy, even if they think he can't win the big one in the playoffs. Snap goes his foot. Who's surprised. Now were screwd. Let's call Rivers and see if he'll come bail us out. Oh Wait, this guy the scouts were so high on weren't wrong. Cool.

After two full years, we now see Trey just doesn't have a quick enough mind to keep up with Kyle and his offense. That's not something we can change enough. What do we do. I know, let's have John publically announce that our other guy is "the leader in the clubhouse". That will tell the whole league that we're done with Trey, and you may call and negotiate. .......... OK, perhaps you don't have my number. Here it is......... You can call me, I'm willing to talk.......... OK, I get it. We're just going to have to give Trey some open plays in preseason, so everybody can see his value. There he is Trey, throw it now. You're looking right at it. Ok, I get it, you've got an even bigger opening in the second window. You've got this. Trey. Trey? Well, crap, just take the damn check down and salvage something. The second row? Come On Man.

Welp, we knew it was a gamble, and we lost. Eyes Front! Let's move on. We knew this was going to happen. That's why we brought in Darnold and Allen. Maybe we can get a bottom draft pick for him and at least save some money. We need everyting we can get to keep players that play, like Bosa and Aiyuk. Still hoping for a mid or low round pick. If not, we're just going to have to cut him before his salary becomes guaranteed week one.

........

And what a beautiful shot that is of Brock holding up that huge Lombardi Trophy, almost bigger than him, with that boyish grin of his !

Agree, I think we have a great shot at #6 🏆 with Brock as QB1. I think it's just too soon to say Trey doesn't have the processor when there have been instances where he's shown it in real games (yes he's only played 4+ regular season NFL games) where he's shown he can process at the NFL level. The key is for Kyle to coach him up from those instances, and make those instances more common and regular. It's also up to Trey to put in the work to get better. The NFL is merciless in that if you don't get better you are gone. This applies also to Brock and Trey. Brock is QB1 because he improved - Trey has to show that he can improve, or he'll be gone like Sudfeld.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Dshearn:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Finished up the 49ers game and the negative talk about Trey Lance is overblown

Entire offense didn't play well. Fumbles, dropped passes, blown protections.

Trey had three throws that were bad but coachable moments but also had three high level completions

GIVE HIM TIME !!!

— Coach K | Keith Sanchez (@TheTalentCode) August 15, 2023

When I went back and watched, yes while it wasn't as bad as my emotions told me, it was still REALLY bad IMO.

There could be reasons for that that I can admit I wasn't giving enough consideration to, but that said, I've got to see him do much better than this by the end of preseason at minimum. Ideally bouncing back asap on Saturday.

There was errors that were not on Trey, mistakes were made in routs....almost certainly....

Having said that... there was more then 3 bad throws...my 8 am brain just woke up brain can think of at least 4. The overthrow on check down, the one handed catch in the middle of the field, and the two near INT.

Those are on top of his timing issues, missed plays and likely confusion with coverage.

We can give him credit for his three "high level completions", but 2 of them are against a prevent defense with less then 30 seconds before half time needing to drive the length of the field.....

Nah, that game was bad.... Trey will live to fight another day. but he has to learn from that game and push forward.

To me the biggest issue is he still has almost a complete lack of anticipation, and really does not progress well down the passing chart.

Some posters have been upset that Trey never got a shot this year to compete for QB1.....yeah....if this game is indicative of what the 49ers have seen in practice.... I get it.... I get why he is not competing for QB1.

This game Trey had a hard time processing down the passing chart. He is slow to do it, and has no anticipation of where the defender will be in relation to his targets. You contrast that with Brock finding Kittle in the playoffs making up his own routs and being somewhat open somewhere he is not suppose to be and hitting him for a crucial chunk play....it does look like these two have completely different abilities to see what is taking place in front of them.

There's an element of cleverness that is missing from Lance's game and jonnydel pointed it out well in his video breakdown - eye manipulation versus zone coverage. I don't know at what point a QB starts doing this but it must be done at the NFL level. Trust the pre snap read and while dropping back look somewhere else to open the passing lane to the route most likely to be open versus that coverage.

Agree, there's a certain amount of creativity that's missing in Trey's game. It's understandable since he's still trying to master the basics of reading defenses and understanding the concepts. He'll get that as soon as he progresses to the next level. In learning - you first learn to memorize, then you learn to learn, then you learn to think, then once you can think, you can create.

Originally posted by bzborow1:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by 49ers81:

Originally posted by 49erKing:
Did he legitimately beat out Brock for QB1 last year during TC? If so, that is saying something right, considering Brock went bonkers in the reg season and playoffs.

In an interview with Tim Kawakami Kyle fairly strongly intimated that Purdy had outplayed Lance in practice last year but because they had invested so much in Lance draft wise and hadn't actually seen Purdy do what he was doing in practice in a game, and because they knew Lance needed the reps, they committed to him as the starter that year. In a "fair" competition he wouldn't have beaten put Jimmy, he wouldn't have beaten out Purdy, and he might not even have beaten out Sudfield. No rap against Lance. He didn't force the team to draft him where they did, and he came in with less experience at the position than ANY QB who has ever been drafted so high in the modern era.

Not sure what the next step will be. If I'm not mistaken Darnold and Allen are only here on one-year contracts, while Lance still has two years left on his deal. Assuming Brock stays healthy and continues on his trajectory from last year they are still going to need QB's next season. With as little as they are paying Brock, they could afford to carry Lance for another year if Darnold decides to go looking for another starting gig. Be interesting to see what happens.

If Trey is a disappointment the way Brock was a success, then it's a wash and move forward. They have moved forward by getting Sam and Allen - and still keeping Trey and continuing to invest Reps into him. So I don't see ShanaLynch having given up on Trey. In addition, as you said, they *can carry* Lance if he's worth carrying because of Brock's minimal salary. From what I've seen, he's worth it (for now) I want to see him to continue to improve in the Denver game. I think they should keep Trey (if he continues to improve) since he does have a 2+ year contract and Sam and Allen are on one year prove it contracts.

Yeah if Purdy pans out then really who cares right? From what I see, Lance is competing with Darnold for the backup and the real question is if you believe Lance's upside is enough to supplant Darnold for this season. I'm not so sure.

Agree, I think Purdy will pan out. Keep CMC healthy and it's almost guaranteed Purdy will do well. Agree that Lance is competing for a backup role on the 49ers. He has potential, but Brock is actual. So therein lies the difference. What to do? Keep developing Trey, Allen, and Sam. Let the chips fall where they may come cutdown to 53 day. The battle between Sam, Trey, and Allen continues - I for one will be with great interest!

Originally posted by Shorteous:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by tankle104:
"What could the 49ers get for Lance?" Tim Kawakami asked in a recent feature for The Athletic. "In this scenario, I think they'd likely take a conditional fourth-round pick (based on 2023 playing time) in a blink. If I'm a QB-needy team without Super Bowl-or-bust pressures, I'd make that trade."

Deal

We'd be better off keeping him and starting him if Purdy goes down. 1-2 solid regular season games from Trey and we could get a 2nd or conditional 1st. He's just gotta show it when it counts.

I think he'll actually restructure and stay with the 9ers on a backup salary.

I would agree with this IF he's committed to learning this system and playing in SF or a similar team/system. If he feels he can play now with a system better suited for his talents, then he should push for a trade.

Originally posted by JTB1974:

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:
What do you mean? Every high draft pick gets scrutinized. Wentz, Goff, Mayfield, Murray, etc the and they have showed a lot more than Lance. And way less capital was used for some. The only way to quite the media is playing well. And even then it's not enough. It's not unique to Lance. He's just the latest. I don't see why some are trying to make this personal. What's worse is that there is a segment of our fan base is trying to turn this into a race thing when it's been like this for years.

Never to this extent.

It just feels like that to you, and others, because you all let yourselves get too emotionally invested before the kid proved he could play. I hope it doesn't get worse if he doesn't pan out, some of the pro Trey crowd are flat out Maga madness level insane with the excuses and mental gymnastics.