Dallas Cowboys QB Trey Lance Thread

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by prospector49:

Originally posted by Youngone:
The over the top hate on Trey after that preseason game is absolutely pathetic.

Hate make you sound like a drama queen. It's not hate, he's just not good. That's fine, I wish him well, but I want the best players in all positions on my team. Do you hate Nate Sudfeld because you don't want him as your QB2?

Mike Silver had a recent piece on the subject of fans making the topic of Lance emotional and not as a football decision / opinion. Rich Eisen has talked about it recently also. As usual, it's just about what is best for the squad. I don't see holding on to a large cap hit who isn't playing games as a smart move. I liked Suds, but just cuz I thought maybe he could help the team, as a backup. Course, he was let go, cuz we had a certain Brock Purdy. It was a great move for the team, tough for Suds I am sure, but hey that's part of pro football.

What's better for the squad is 100% keeping Lance. Let me break down best and worst case scenario for us keeping or getting rid of Trey.

Trey is gone
Best case scenario - Brock Purdy looks like the same guy we saw last season, never gets hurt again and we win multiple SBs with him
Worst case scenario - Brock regresses or gets hurt again, Darnold comes in and looks like the inconsistent turnover machine he's been his whole career and you have Brandon Allen to save your season who scares nobody

Trey is on the roster
Best case scenario - same as above
Worst case scenario - same as above but you have Lance

Call me crazy but I'd rather watch the team's hopes hang in the balance with Trey Lance than Brandon Allen. If anyone says otherwise while being serious then you're delusional as hell. Because I can guarantee you whatever you saw on Sunday, if Trey is out there with out top unit, he's looking much better. If he's out there with an actual game plan to attack the other team, he's looking much better. Brandon Allen is going to be Brandon Allen.

Lance is not going to save us is Darnold struggles. The possibility that Lance would play better than Darnold in the next 2 years is so unlikely that it is no reason to keep Lance.

They teach you about sunk costs in finance. Cash or monetary equivalent outlays that are not recoverable should play zero part in future decision making because no matter what decision you make, the cash outlay is still gone. The 3 first round picks are a sunk cost. We can keep doubling down on a bad decision to try and convince ourselves otherwise, but if you completely ignore and mentally erase what it took to get Lance, then he has no business being on our roster. I mean the man is battling to not be QB3! As one scout stated, he ZERO dominant traits on film. The whole "potential" argument is a complete and utter house of cards.

Originally posted by libertyforever:

When Javon Kinlaw went on Grant Cohn's channel because he felt he was disrespected, the whole 49ers clubhouse went at Grant, and backed Javon. When Michael Lombardi disrespects Trey Lance and his family, the only person who backs him up is a former 49er???

— John🔫 (@49ersgamg) August 16, 2023

It is actually a good point. I think the team feels like Trey is not even QB2 at this point and won't be on the team next season, so they don't come out to defend Trey.

I saw Mostert he certainly had TLs back, did ya'll see that one? We have a class team, and they all get behind one another. KS addressed it said TL does a good job blocking it out. It's part of the paycheck of being a pro athlete, public criticism, and there are always clowns out there, usually it is Skip Bayless lol. Sometimes they try to cross boundaries, just to make a name for themselves.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
SWH on your counterpoints, you say he won't have a gameday role, even if traded. Understand by gameday role, I am talking about being active for gameday. Sure we have this new Qb rule, but my understanding is Qb3 can dress, but is not active, unless the first two are injured. So the only actives are QB1 and QB2. By saying he wouldn't have a gameday role on any other team, you actually seem to have a lower opinion on Lance than I do. I feel on some squads, he could be a QB2. This means he's active, and could enter the game on TL package type stuff, if they wanted to run it.

I would be interested to hear your logic for keeping TL, I would be interested in how many games do you think he will give the 49ers, going forward.

Surely depends on Purdy's health and form. But to judge by recent years, I would want to keep him.

Depth is certainly a real need, English. I think Darnold is better, and Allen may be better also. If we had to play a game tomorrow, give me Allen. If it's at all close between Lance and Allen, give me the guy on a QB3 contract, not a guy making $20m remaining on the deal. TL becomes not really a fit, if his role is QB3, from a contract perspective. No team is spending about $10m per year on a QB3.

Fropwns may not forgive me for this but I see nothing to place Allen ahead of Lance. Nothing. And I am unconvinced about Darnold as well.

Originally posted by Shemp:
They teach you about sunk costs in finance. Cash or monetary equivalent outlays that are not recoverable should play zero part in future decision making because no matter what decision you make, the cash outlay is still gone. The 3 first round picks are a sunk cost. We can keep doubling down on a bad decision to try and convince ourselves otherwise, but if you completely ignore and mentally erase what it took to get Lance, then he has no business being on our roster. I mean the man is battling to not be QB3! As one scout stated, he ZERO dominant traits on film. The whole "potential" argument is a complete and utter house of cards.

but but but he just never got a fair chance

Originally posted by Shemp:
They teach you about sunk costs in finance. Cash or monetary equivalent outlays that are not recoverable should play zero part in future decision making because no matter what decision you make, the cash outlay is still gone. The 3 first round picks are a sunk cost. We can keep doubling down on a bad decision to try and convince ourselves otherwise, but if you completely ignore and mentally erase what it took to get Lance, then he has no business being on our roster. I mean the man is battling to not be QB3! As one scout stated, he ZERO dominant traits on film. The whole "potential" argument is a complete and utter house of cards.

This.

As one of Lance's earliest detractor, I'm shocked that Lance is getting this much hate after one preseason game. The guy has done everything you could ask and has been a professional throughout everything. From the niners bringing back Jimmy, to the injury, He's done nothing but put his head down and work hard. While i dont think he will ever be a fqb, he really got unlucky and shanahan has screwed him. The Shanahans are notorious for this. He threw Jimmy under the bus. He is about to trey lances career. It happened to RG3. I worry for Brock especially with this oline.

LMFAO at the soft ass weenieboy article on the WZ frontpage saying that Trey is owed an apology. 🤡🌍 The world doesn't owe Trey s**t. He's a young multimillionaire and will be better off in life than anyone that has ever visited this website. If fans want people to shut up and stop criticizing his play, he needs to play well. It's that simple.

Originally posted by English:
Fropwns may not forgive me for this but I see nothing to place Allen ahead of Lance. Nothing. And I am unconvinced about Darnold as well.

Was listening to KNBR last night they had some guy on who was breaking it all down and he suspected, Allen > Lance. He even gave the disclaimer, ppl won't want to hear this lol. We also had Papa on the broadcast saying how Allen knows the system, maybe as well as any of our QBs. I guess he played something similar. Allen seems functional. TL does not. TL is giving me early Alex non functional vibes. Looks robotic, doesn't trust wide open stuff right in front of him, pressing. Steve says he's pressing and it's like look, if you are pressing in preseason vs Raiders scrubs, do we want to see how he does in regular season vs a bunch of 1s on D?

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
SWH on your counterpoints, you say he won't have a gameday role, even if traded. Understand by gameday role, I am talking about being active for gameday. Sure we have this new Qb rule, but my understanding is Qb3 can dress, but is not active, unless the first two are injured. So the only actives are QB1 and QB2. By saying he wouldn't have a gameday role on any other team, you actually seem to have a lower opinion on Lance than I do. I feel on some squads, he could be a QB2. This means he's active, and could enter the game on TL package type stuff, if they wanted to run it.

I would be interested to hear your logic for keeping TL, I would be interested in how many games do you think he will give the 49ers, going forward.

Surely depends on Purdy's health and form. But to judge by recent years, I would want to keep him.

Depth is certainly a real need, English. I think Darnold is better, and Allen may be better also. If we had to play a game tomorrow, give me Allen. If it's at all close between Lance and Allen, give me the guy on a QB3 contract, not a guy making $20m remaining on the deal. TL becomes not really a fit, if his role is QB3, from a contract perspective. No team is spending about $10m per year on a QB3.

Fropwns may not forgive me for this but I see nothing to place Allen ahead of Lance. Nothing. And I am unconvinced about Darnold as well.

You're right, other than arm talent, accuracy, decision making, elusiveness in the pocket, speed and experience, Darnold has shown us nothing to believe that he is better than Lance. Darnold's first throw of the game last week was better than anything we have seen from Lance on film, college or pro.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by libertyforever:

When Javon Kinlaw went on Grant Cohn's channel because he felt he was disrespected, the whole 49ers clubhouse went at Grant, and backed Javon. When Michael Lombardi disrespects Trey Lance and his family, the only person who backs him up is a former 49er???

— John🔫 (@49ersgamg) August 16, 2023

It is actually a good point. I think the team feels like Trey is not even QB2 at this point and won't be on the team next season, so they don't come out to defend Trey.

I saw Mostert he certainly had TLs back, did ya'll see that one? We have a class team, and they all get behind one another. KS addressed it said TL does a good job blocking it out. It's part of the paycheck of being a pro athlete, public criticism, and there are always clowns out there, usually it is Skip Bayless lol. Sometimes they try to cross boundaries, just to make a name for themselves.

Javon backed Lance too. Not every player who saw the comment is gonna be posting stuff on social media.

Originally posted by tankle104:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by tankle104:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by tankle104:

Originally posted by lamontb:
There is clearly a major difference between Lance and Fields in terms of running ability. Makes you really question WTF our FO was looking at.

It's a big reason why I was so confident we would take fields. The way kyle was talking about have a dual threat and playing 11-11, I didn't see it with Lance. I thought it was crystal clear with fields.

he has above average mobility, he isn't a statue, but he also isn't mobile enough to design into a gameplan and make plays for it. IMO, he moves well enough to create time and opportunity when a play breaks down but doesn't have the agility, elusiveness, or quickness to have a designed run game around. I don't think I saw him beat a defender to the edge once on a designed run play.

Meh, he's a lot more mobile than Jimmy. With a stronger arm and taller.

He's definitely more mobile than jimmy. Jimmy looks way more athletic than he is. It's kinda surprising how slow he was. Lol or at least never attempted to run much.

Lance isn't a statue, I think where the negativity behind his mobility comes is that Kyle billed the whole selection like he wanted to play 11-11 and have that threat on every play. Almost like a fields or Lamar threat.

tbh if Lance was quicker/more agile, it would help His passing lanes open up a lot more because of the hesiststikn it would cause defenders. That's what it does for Lamar, he really isn't a very accurate QB (he isn't inaccurate) but he isn't someone who you'd necessarily worry about dicing you up if he stays in the pocket. He's just so special with his mobility that it makes it easier for him to have bigger throwing windows.

On Trey's mobility - the guy put in over one thousand yards on the ground in college. I think he can operate a Lamar Jackson Roman offense. Now he's not Lamar, that's a given, but I think Greg Roman would still make Trey work in his offense. Trey's mobility still enables the 11 on 11 play on those run/pass options and short yardage situations despite his lack of short area burst like Brock/Lamar. Having said that, Trey's potential as a pocket passer is even higher than (I think) Lamar Jackson's. Again, I rely on Kyle's assessment on this and my own eyes seeing him play. As for his processor, both Steve and Kurt said it's not an obsolete processor, it's just in the beginning stages of development. I'd weigh these opinions higher than Greg Cosell's or Mike Lombardie's thank you.

Trey is interesting when it comes to his mobility because most mobile guys actually rely on their athleticism to help them in the passing game (lame, fields etc). But Trey is kinda the opposite, his mobility would be more effective if he was stronger in the pass game. He needs guys to back off and respect his accuracy.

I've said before that I don't think Lance will ever be an elite qb but I do think he's more than capable of being a high end game manager, he just needs to get comfortable with the speed of the game and trust what he's seeing, take more changes. Be more gun slinger ish. He has a strong arm, where he can jam balls in small windows better than a lot of people can. I think he can be a good passing qb. More than lamar and fields, very possible. Time will tell. I think st worse he can be as good as them.

Steve Young didn't look like Steve Young ether in 1987. But he developed under a great Coach. Trey has the same situation. It's up to Trey now to develop and learn and grow. As much as the Trey naysayers harp about Trey this and That, sucks this and that, it's still in the past. *Nobody* including Kyle knows how Trey will develop these next couple of games. Nobody. Those focusing on the past should just stay in the past and let the folks optimistic about Trey's future post about Trey's future.

But on a more serious note, Trey - if nothing else - adds tremendous QB depth and QB1 potential versus a guy like Brandon Allen who doesn't add any of that. By the way Brandon Allen is on the wrong side of 30. Just so everybody high on Allen is aware of that.

Originally posted by prospector49:

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
SWH on your counterpoints, you say he won't have a gameday role, even if traded. Understand by gameday role, I am talking about being active for gameday. Sure we have this new Qb rule, but my understanding is Qb3 can dress, but is not active, unless the first two are injured. So the only actives are QB1 and QB2. By saying he wouldn't have a gameday role on any other team, you actually seem to have a lower opinion on Lance than I do. I feel on some squads, he could be a QB2. This means he's active, and could enter the game on TL package type stuff, if they wanted to run it.

I would be interested to hear your logic for keeping TL, I would be interested in how many games do you think he will give the 49ers, going forward.

Surely depends on Purdy's health and form. But to judge by recent years, I would want to keep him.

Depth is certainly a real need, English. I think Darnold is better, and Allen may be better also. If we had to play a game tomorrow, give me Allen. If it's at all close between Lance and Allen, give me the guy on a QB3 contract, not a guy making $20m remaining on the deal. TL becomes not really a fit, if his role is QB3, from a contract perspective. No team is spending about $10m per year on a QB3.

Fropwns may not forgive me for this but I see nothing to place Allen ahead of Lance. Nothing. And I am unconvinced about Darnold as well.

You're right, other than arm talent, accuracy, decision making, elusiveness in the pocket, speed and experience, Darnold has shown us nothing to believe that he is better than Lance. Darnold's first throw of the game last week was better than anything we have seen from Lance on film, college or pro.

Originally posted by Shemp:
They teach you about sunk costs in finance. Cash or monetary equivalent outlays that are not recoverable should play zero part in future decision making because no matter what decision you make, the cash outlay is still gone. The 3 first round picks are a sunk cost. We can keep doubling down on a bad decision to try and convince ourselves otherwise, but if you completely ignore and mentally erase what it took to get Lance, then he has no business being on our roster. I mean the man is battling to not be QB3! As one scout stated, he ZERO dominant traits on film. The whole "potential" argument is a complete and utter house of cards.

You forgot the key principle of investment - the principle of appreciation. Certain undervalued assets can appreciate over time if you appreciate those assets.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by tankle104:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by tankle104:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by tankle104:

Originally posted by lamontb:
There is clearly a major difference between Lance and Fields in terms of running ability. Makes you really question WTF our FO was looking at.

It's a big reason why I was so confident we would take fields. The way kyle was talking about have a dual threat and playing 11-11, I didn't see it with Lance. I thought it was crystal clear with fields.

he has above average mobility, he isn't a statue, but he also isn't mobile enough to design into a gameplan and make plays for it. IMO, he moves well enough to create time and opportunity when a play breaks down but doesn't have the agility, elusiveness, or quickness to have a designed run game around. I don't think I saw him beat a defender to the edge once on a designed run play.

Meh, he's a lot more mobile than Jimmy. With a stronger arm and taller.

He's definitely more mobile than jimmy. Jimmy looks way more athletic than he is. It's kinda surprising how slow he was. Lol or at least never attempted to run much.

Lance isn't a statue, I think where the negativity behind his mobility comes is that Kyle billed the whole selection like he wanted to play 11-11 and have that threat on every play. Almost like a fields or Lamar threat.

tbh if Lance was quicker/more agile, it would help His passing lanes open up a lot more because of the hesiststikn it would cause defenders. That's what it does for Lamar, he really isn't a very accurate QB (he isn't inaccurate) but he isn't someone who you'd necessarily worry about dicing you up if he stays in the pocket. He's just so special with his mobility that it makes it easier for him to have bigger throwing windows.

On Trey's mobility - the guy put in over one thousand yards on the ground in college. I think he can operate a Lamar Jackson Roman offense. Now he's not Lamar, that's a given, but I think Greg Roman would still make Trey work in his offense. Trey's mobility still enables the 11 on 11 play on those run/pass options and short yardage situations despite his lack of short area burst like Brock/Lamar. Having said that, Trey's potential as a pocket passer is even higher than (I think) Lamar Jackson's. Again, I rely on Kyle's assessment on this and my own eyes seeing him play. As for his processor, both Steve and Kurt said it's not an obsolete processor, it's just in the beginning stages of development. I'd weigh these opinions higher than Greg Cosell's or Mike Lombardie's thank you.

Trey is interesting when it comes to his mobility because most mobile guys actually rely on their athleticism to help them in the passing game (lame, fields etc). But Trey is kinda the opposite, his mobility would be more effective if he was stronger in the pass game. He needs guys to back off and respect his accuracy.

I've said before that I don't think Lance will ever be an elite qb but I do think he's more than capable of being a high end game manager, he just needs to get comfortable with the speed of the game and trust what he's seeing, take more changes. Be more gun slinger ish. He has a strong arm, where he can jam balls in small windows better than a lot of people can. I think he can be a good passing qb. More than lamar and fields, very possible. Time will tell. I think st worse he can be as good as them.

Steve Young didn't look like Steve Young ether in 1987. But he developed under a great Coach. Trey has the same situation. It's up to Trey now to develop and learn and grow. As much as the Trey naysayers harp about Trey this and That, sucks this and that, it's still in the past. *Nobody* including Kyle knows how Trey will develop these next couple of games. Nobody. Those focusing on the past should just stay in the past and let the folks optimistic about Trey's future post about Trey's future.

But on a more serious note, Trey - if nothing else - adds tremendous QB depth and QB1 potential versus a guy like Brandon Allen who doesn't add any of that. By the way Brandon Allen is on the wrong side of 30. Just so everybody high on Allen is aware of that.

Not the same situation. Steve Young had a stellar college career at BYU, 4 years, against top level competition. Then Young went to a disaster of a situation in the USFL, and a mess in Tampa Bay.

Lance is essentially a great high school athlete that played a year of college football against inferior competition, in a limited offense. Not even enough to see how he stacked up against legit COLLEGE competition. Then he say for a year, then he declared for the draft. Then he has been with Shanahan and the 49ers, in a situation designed to make things easier on the QB, and has looked lost. Because he is essentially a HIGH SCHOOL quarterback 5 years removed.

A closer comp to Steve Young would be Sam Darnold, who had a stellar career in college against top competition at USC, and then was drafted into a disaster of situation with the NY Jets and Adam Gase, and then was in a mess at Carolina with an overwhelmed clueless head coach.

That is why Shanahan made the Steve Young and Darnold comparsion by the way. I actually think that Darnold will excel here and end up pushing Brock for the starting QB role.