Dallas Cowboys QB Trey Lance Thread

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by tankle104:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by tankle104:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by tankle104:

Originally posted by boast:

Originally posted by Giedi:
That 20 million cap hit is negotiable as was Jimmy's last year with the 49ers. That 5th year option, should Kyle exercise it, does in a sense lock Trey with the 49ers, and that option can be renegotiated from a position of strength by Kyle if Trey's not progressed to where he's NOT getting offers from other teams commensurate with what Kyle can give him as QB2/QB3 for the 49ers.

you keep posting this but it isnt true. so let me post it again...

the 5th year option is A NON-NEGOTIABLE FIXED AMOUNT.



NFL.com

Yeah, it can't be renegotiated. It would have to be declined and then the team can negotiate an extension to his rookie scale contract (which would be only four years at that point). So the team has control over his fifth year, if they choose to execute it, but has to pay him a ton.

if they choose to decline it, they have to negotiate with Trey on an extension. So it doesn't guarantee he would want to.

Green Bay did that this year with Jordan love. Declined his fifth year option but negotiated a one year extension to his rookie contract (replacing what would of been the fifth year). He's the starter though so it makes more sense for him, I doubt Lance would want to do that unless his agent tells him that it's the best financial offer he will get.

Exactly. Everything is negotiable in the NFL, even the salary cap. Example, See all the players traded for their cap space etc.. You just have to decline the 5th option with the contingency that Kyle and Trey can work out a deal acceptable to both and work out the deal prior to the option lapsing. Simple.

Yeah, I think boast was just saying that you can't renegotiate the actual fifth year option. We would have to terminate it first and start from scratch on an extension.

if that happens, I'd imagine it's something similar to what Jordan love got - low base pay but lots of incentives built in. Essentially what sam darnold signed with us.

The 5th year option is Kyles leverage against Trey leaving for other pastures, so to speak. Again it depends on Treys progress this year and next, but by having a deal in place prior to the 5th year option lapsing, it is still a renegotiation of the 5th year option. Options are ether exercised or not - at the control of the option holder - in this case Kyle is the option holder.

Yeah but the decision has to be decided on at the end of this next season, before the start of the new league year (or by the draft, something like that), so it's like 7 months or so away

Agree, it has to be decided soon. Also agree that it has to be decided this year. That still gives Kyle negotiating power up until the exercise date of the option. After that, Trey is basically in Kinlaws situation next year. It's all up to Treys progress. Kinlaw couldn't convince Kyle to exercise the option but Trey still can. We shall see.

Just to make sure we are saying the same thing, the date the team has to decide on if they're exercising the option or not is before the next nfl draft. So they have to decide if they'll do it or not before the next nfl draft (before the start of treys fourth year). They can't choose to do it later than that.

Originally posted by TreyDeyEeyDey:

Originally posted by Shemp:

Originally posted by TreyDeyEeyDey:
Yup, the fans that just want to hate Trey because they understand literally nothing about football and overreacted about a preseason game owe the entire front office and high football IQers an apology for their constant whining.

Question: What do the 31 NFL GMs that don't want to trade for Trey Lance know about football?

Nothing... He's played 4.5 games lol.

He's done exactly zero dominant things on the field. Ever. Those with extremely low and extremely high football IQ alike all have one thing in common: they want no part of Trey Lance.

When Mike Lombardi made that stupid comment about his mama lifting him out of the crib with no QB instincts someone should've immediately turned to him and said, when your mom lifted you out of the crib you had no NFL general manager instincts.What a douche.

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:

Originally posted by riverrunzthruit:

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by TreyDeyEeyDey:
Yup, the fans that just want to hate Trey because they understand literally nothing about football and overreacted about a preseason game owe the entire front office and high football IQers an apology for their constant whining.

This post is what Silver / Rich Eisen were talking about

What's funnier, is that some still think opinions on Lance are based on one preseason game lol

or based on some type of hate

He needs to turn it around ASAP or else the criticism aren't going anywhere.

Absolutely true, but you're responding to a poster who's on record celebrating after Trey's injury.

If River doesn't deserve the label, then no one does for any QB we've had.

If true, that's not cool.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by tankle104:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by tankle104:

Originally posted by boast:

Originally posted by Giedi:
That 20 million cap hit is negotiable as was Jimmy's last year with the 49ers. That 5th year option, should Kyle exercise it, does in a sense lock Trey with the 49ers, and that option can be renegotiated from a position of strength by Kyle if Trey's not progressed to where he's NOT getting offers from other teams commensurate with what Kyle can give him as QB2/QB3 for the 49ers.

you keep posting this but it isnt true. so let me post it again...

the 5th year option is A NON-NEGOTIABLE FIXED AMOUNT.



NFL.com

Yeah, it can't be renegotiated. It would have to be declined and then the team can negotiate an extension to his rookie scale contract (which would be only four years at that point). So the team has control over his fifth year, if they choose to execute it, but has to pay him a ton.

if they choose to decline it, they have to negotiate with Trey on an extension. So it doesn't guarantee he would want to.

Green Bay did that this year with Jordan love. Declined his fifth year option but negotiated a one year extension to his rookie contract (replacing what would of been the fifth year). He's the starter though so it makes more sense for him, I doubt Lance would want to do that unless his agent tells him that it's the best financial offer he will get.

Exactly. Everything is negotiable in the NFL, even the salary cap. Example, See all the players traded for their cap space etc.. You just have to decline the 5th option with the contingency that Kyle and Trey can work out a deal acceptable to both and work out the deal prior to the option lapsing. Simple.

Yeah, I think boast was just saying that you can't renegotiate the actual fifth year option. We would have to terminate it first and start from scratch on an extension.

if that happens, I'd imagine it's something similar to what Jordan love got - low base pay but lots of incentives built in. Essentially what sam darnold signed with us.

The 5th year option is Kyles leverage against Trey leaving for other pastures, so to speak. Again it depends on Treys progress this year and next, but by having a deal in place prior to the 5th year option lapsing, it is still a renegotiation of the 5th year option. Options are ether exercised or not - at the control of the option holder - in this case Kyle is the option holder.

What leverage are you talking about? The way it is right now, if we exercise the 5th year option, we would way over pay Trey $20M. Trey may not mind putting the $20M in his pocket.

When a call option is out of money, it has no intrinsic value. Essentially it is worthless.

Trey will have to do a ton this season for the call option to have any intrinsic value.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
I stand by the idea that there is zero logic in trading Trey Lance.

Let me give you the logic:

1. We save dollars these saved dollars wont help the team improve today
2. We keep Allen (who we seem to like) Seem being the operative word. No fan (you and I included), has any idea if this is true.
3. We don't keep pouring reps into TL, if we feel he has no future here And Darnold on a one year deal does?
4. We remove an awkward situation from the QB room; and a potential distraction, in the constant 'what will SF do with TL?' these are professionals. Trey being QB2 or QB3 wont be a distraction
5. We get a pick or pick swap in return his value is really low right now. Trading him for a low level pick is useless
6. It doesn't look like he can play; or that he has enough of a roadmap to the games he needs to develop, on the rook contract. Dont buy the first part. Him not having a roadmap to play doesnt mean we should just dump him
7. We do right by the player, if he has no gameday role here, maybe he can be a QB2 or active on gameday, with a clean slate and new team trading him now doesnt give him a gameday role either.

There's the logic, you can disagree with it, but there it is, no doubt about it if you want to argue that bad logic = logic, then sure, there is logic

Trading Trey will not help this team now. The money savings doesnt matter now. The draft pick we would get wouldnt move the needle. Next offseason, we would still have to look for a QB2 if we traded him now. It wouldnt be doing right by Trey now, because its far too late for him to get a meaningful role with another team right now.

I stand by my statement. There is no logic in trading him. If you want to discuss this in the offseason, some of this changes.

SWH on your counterpoints, you say he won't have a gameday role, even if traded. Understand by gameday role, I am talking about being active for gameday. Sure we have this new Qb rule, but my understanding is Qb3 can dress, but is not active, unless the first two are injured. So the only actives are QB1 and QB2. By saying he wouldn't have a gameday role on any other team, you actually seem to have a lower opinion on Lance than I do. I feel on some squads, he could be a QB2. This means he's active, and could enter the game on TL package type stuff, if they wanted to run it.

I would be interested to hear your logic for keeping TL, I would be interested in how many games do you think he will give the 49ers, going forward.

What I find incredibly funny is that the later we got into last offseason/preseason, you and others used that as one of the excuses why Jimmy had zero trade market. "QB rooms are set now" and "teams want their QB (especially a new QB) in the system all offseason/training camp" were repeated ad nauseam. Now because its Trey Lance, none of those excuses matter. Funny how that works.

If Trey is going to be traded now to another team, he will likely be in the same situation he is there that he is here. How is that "doing right by the player?" Sorry, but being a QB2 in a different system is no more of a "gameday role" than him being the QB2/3 with us.

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
I stand by the idea that there is zero logic in trading Trey Lance.

Let me give you the logic:

1. We save dollars these saved dollars wont help the team improve today
2. We keep Allen (who we seem to like) Seem being the operative word. No fan (you and I included), has any idea if this is true.
3. We don't keep pouring reps into TL, if we feel he has no future here And Darnold on a one year deal does?
4. We remove an awkward situation from the QB room; and a potential distraction, in the constant 'what will SF do with TL?' these are professionals. Trey being QB2 or QB3 wont be a distraction
5. We get a pick or pick swap in return his value is really low right now. Trading him for a low level pick is useless
6. It doesn't look like he can play; or that he has enough of a roadmap to the games he needs to develop, on the rook contract. Dont buy the first part. Him not having a roadmap to play doesnt mean we should just dump him
7. We do right by the player, if he has no gameday role here, maybe he can be a QB2 or active on gameday, with a clean slate and new team trading him now doesnt give him a gameday role either.

There's the logic, you can disagree with it, but there it is, no doubt about it if you want to argue that bad logic = logic, then sure, there is logic

Trading Trey will not help this team now. The money savings doesnt matter now. The draft pick we would get wouldnt move the needle. Next offseason, we would still have to look for a QB2 if we traded him now. It wouldnt be doing right by Trey now, because its far too late for him to get a meaningful role with another team right now.

I stand by my statement. There is no logic in trading him. If you want to discuss this in the offseason, some of this changes.

SWH on your counterpoints, you say he won't have a gameday role, even if traded. Understand by gameday role, I am talking about being active for gameday. Sure we have this new Qb rule, but my understanding is Qb3 can dress, but is not active, unless the first two are injured. So the only actives are QB1 and QB2. By saying he wouldn't have a gameday role on any other team, you actually seem to have a lower opinion on Lance than I do. I feel on some squads, he could be a QB2. This means he's active, and could enter the game on TL package type stuff, if they wanted to run it.

I would be interested to hear your logic for keeping TL, I would be interested in how many games do you think he will give the 49ers, going forward.

What I find incredibly funny is that the later we got into last offseason/preseason, you and others used that as one of the excuses why Jimmy had zero trade market. "QB rooms are set now" and "teams want their QB (especially a new QB) in the system all offseason/training camp" were repeated ad nauseam. Now because its Trey Lance, none of those excuses matter. Funny how that works.

If Trey is going to be traded now to another team, he will likely be in the same situation he is there that he is here. How is that "doing right by the player?" Sorry, but being a QB2 in a different system is no more of a "gameday role" than him being the QB2/3 with us.

The difference was, the teams looking to trade for Jimmy G would have been competitive teams. But all competitive teams had a starting QB already. If one of those competitive teams lose a starting QB due to injuries (Examples: J Campbell injured, Palmer to Raiders; Bridgewater injured, S Bradford to Vikings), then perhaps they would trade for Jimmy. That scenario didn't happened.

Now, if a team is to trade for Trey, it would likely be a uncompetitive team who don't have a franchise QB or a very promising young prospect. These teams might want to see what Trey has. Maybe the Falcons, Buccs, Commanders, and etc. (Examples: Jimmy G to SF)

Basically, it will be a different profile of teams. The comparison doesn't make sense.

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
I stand by the idea that there is zero logic in trading Trey Lance.

Let me give you the logic:

1. We save dollars these saved dollars wont help the team improve today
2. We keep Allen (who we seem to like) Seem being the operative word. No fan (you and I included), has any idea if this is true.
3. We don't keep pouring reps into TL, if we feel he has no future here And Darnold on a one year deal does?
4. We remove an awkward situation from the QB room; and a potential distraction, in the constant 'what will SF do with TL?' these are professionals. Trey being QB2 or QB3 wont be a distraction
5. We get a pick or pick swap in return his value is really low right now. Trading him for a low level pick is useless
6. It doesn't look like he can play; or that he has enough of a roadmap to the games he needs to develop, on the rook contract. Dont buy the first part. Him not having a roadmap to play doesnt mean we should just dump him
7. We do right by the player, if he has no gameday role here, maybe he can be a QB2 or active on gameday, with a clean slate and new team trading him now doesnt give him a gameday role either.

There's the logic, you can disagree with it, but there it is, no doubt about it if you want to argue that bad logic = logic, then sure, there is logic

Trading Trey will not help this team now. The money savings doesnt matter now. The draft pick we would get wouldnt move the needle. Next offseason, we would still have to look for a QB2 if we traded him now. It wouldnt be doing right by Trey now, because its far too late for him to get a meaningful role with another team right now.

I stand by my statement. There is no logic in trading him. If you want to discuss this in the offseason, some of this changes.

SWH on your counterpoints, you say he won't have a gameday role, even if traded. Understand by gameday role, I am talking about being active for gameday. Sure we have this new Qb rule, but my understanding is Qb3 can dress, but is not active, unless the first two are injured. So the only actives are QB1 and QB2. By saying he wouldn't have a gameday role on any other team, you actually seem to have a lower opinion on Lance than I do. I feel on some squads, he could be a QB2. This means he's active, and could enter the game on TL package type stuff, if they wanted to run it.

I would be interested to hear your logic for keeping TL, I would be interested in how many games do you think he will give the 49ers, going forward.

What I find incredibly funny is that the later we got into last offseason/preseason, you and others used that as one of the excuses why Jimmy had zero trade market. "QB rooms are set now" and "teams want their QB (especially a new QB) in the system all offseason/training camp" were repeated ad nauseam. Now because its Trey Lance, none of those excuses matter. Funny how that works.

If Trey is going to be traded now to another team, he will likely be in the same situation he is there that he is here. How is that "doing right by the player?" Sorry, but being a QB2 in a different system is no more of a "gameday role" than him being the QB2/3 with us.

I pretty much agree with you that there seems to be little benefits for us to trade Trey now. The only possible benefit is if Trey becomes QB3 and they prefer to keep Allen or if a Sudfeld is made available now that Detroit has Teddy B and Shanny believes he has a better chance with one of those guys than Trey. Only real reason at this stage in the game.

As for the other team, if they aren't contenders and will be looking for a QB next year they could role the dice at some point to get a look at him to see if they want to pick up his 5th year option.

Outside of that, I believe his trade window has closed IMO

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by prospector49:

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by prospector49:

Originally posted by Youngone:
The over the top hate on Trey after that preseason game is absolutely pathetic.

Hate make you sound like a drama queen. It's not hate, he's just not good. That's fine, I wish him well, but I want the best players in all positions on my team. Do you hate Nate Sudfeld because you don't want him as your QB2?

Mike Silver had a recent piece on the subject of fans making the topic of Lance emotional and not as a football decision / opinion. Rich Eisen has talked about it recently also. As usual, it's just about what is best for the squad. I don't see holding on to a large cap hit who isn't playing games as a smart move. I liked Suds, but just cuz I thought maybe he could help the team, as a backup. Course, he was let go, cuz we had a certain Brock Purdy. It was a great move for the team, tough for Suds I am sure, but hey that's part of pro football.

What's better for the squad is 100% keeping Lance. Let me break down best and worst case scenario for us keeping or getting rid of Trey.

Trey is gone
Best case scenario - Brock Purdy looks like the same guy we saw last season, never gets hurt again and we win multiple SBs with him
Worst case scenario - Brock regresses or gets hurt again, Darnold comes in and looks like the inconsistent turnover machine he's been his whole career and you have Brandon Allen to save your season who scares nobody

Trey is on the roster
Best case scenario - same as above
Worst case scenario - same as above but you have Lance

Call me crazy but I'd rather watch the team's hopes hang in the balance with Trey Lance than Brandon Allen. If anyone says otherwise while being serious then you're delusional as hell. Because I can guarantee you whatever you saw on Sunday, if Trey is out there with out top unit, he's looking much better. If he's out there with an actual game plan to attack the other team, he's looking much better. Brandon Allen is going to be Brandon Allen.

Lance is not going to save us is Darnold struggles. The possibility that Lance would play better than Darnold in the next 2 years is so unlikely that it is no reason to keep Lance.

Show me a game from Trey Lance where he looked anything like Darnold's most recent game?
5/15 43 yards 0 TD 2 INT with 2 fumbles

btw both Darnold and Allen are on 1 year deals.

If Trey doesn't step up, he's only here for this year as well. No way they pay him $20m to ride the pine. I'm one of the ones hoping he does improve, but I have to admit its not looking good.

Originally posted by libertyforever:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by tankle104:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by tankle104:

Originally posted by boast:

Originally posted by Giedi:
That 20 million cap hit is negotiable as was Jimmy's last year with the 49ers. That 5th year option, should Kyle exercise it, does in a sense lock Trey with the 49ers, and that option can be renegotiated from a position of strength by Kyle if Trey's not progressed to where he's NOT getting offers from other teams commensurate with what Kyle can give him as QB2/QB3 for the 49ers.

you keep posting this but it isnt true. so let me post it again...

the 5th year option is A NON-NEGOTIABLE FIXED AMOUNT.



NFL.com

Yeah, it can't be renegotiated. It would have to be declined and then the team can negotiate an extension to his rookie scale contract (which would be only four years at that point). So the team has control over his fifth year, if they choose to execute it, but has to pay him a ton.

if they choose to decline it, they have to negotiate with Trey on an extension. So it doesn't guarantee he would want to.

Green Bay did that this year with Jordan love. Declined his fifth year option but negotiated a one year extension to his rookie contract (replacing what would of been the fifth year). He's the starter though so it makes more sense for him, I doubt Lance would want to do that unless his agent tells him that it's the best financial offer he will get.

Exactly. Everything is negotiable in the NFL, even the salary cap. Example, See all the players traded for their cap space etc.. You just have to decline the 5th option with the contingency that Kyle and Trey can work out a deal acceptable to both and work out the deal prior to the option lapsing. Simple.

Yeah, I think boast was just saying that you can't renegotiate the actual fifth year option. We would have to terminate it first and start from scratch on an extension.

if that happens, I'd imagine it's something similar to what Jordan love got - low base pay but lots of incentives built in. Essentially what sam darnold signed with us.

The 5th year option is Kyles leverage against Trey leaving for other pastures, so to speak. Again it depends on Treys progress this year and next, but by having a deal in place prior to the 5th year option lapsing, it is still a renegotiation of the 5th year option. Options are ether exercised or not - at the control of the option holder - in this case Kyle is the option holder.

What leverage are you talking about? The way it is right now, if we exercise the 5th year option, we would way over pay Trey $20M. Trey may not mind putting the $20M in his pocket.

When a call option is out of money, it has no intrinsic value. Essentially it is worthless.

Trey will have to do a ton this season for the call option to have any intrinsic value.

Assuming Trey's option is 20 million and Brock salary is 1 million, that's 21 million for a franchise QB and a stud backup with two more years remaining. Jimmy alone is costing the Bottom feeing raiders 23 million. Again the value of the option is in the mind of the option holder - not you.

Originally posted by tankle104:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by tankle104:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by tankle104:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by tankle104:

Originally posted by boast:

Originally posted by Giedi:
That 20 million cap hit is negotiable as was Jimmy's last year with the 49ers. That 5th year option, should Kyle exercise it, does in a sense lock Trey with the 49ers, and that option can be renegotiated from a position of strength by Kyle if Trey's not progressed to where he's NOT getting offers from other teams commensurate with what Kyle can give him as QB2/QB3 for the 49ers.

you keep posting this but it isnt true. so let me post it again...

the 5th year option is A NON-NEGOTIABLE FIXED AMOUNT.



NFL.com

Yeah, it can't be renegotiated. It would have to be declined and then the team can negotiate an extension to his rookie scale contract (which would be only four years at that point). So the team has control over his fifth year, if they choose to execute it, but has to pay him a ton.

if they choose to decline it, they have to negotiate with Trey on an extension. So it doesn't guarantee he would want to.

Green Bay did that this year with Jordan love. Declined his fifth year option but negotiated a one year extension to his rookie contract (replacing what would of been the fifth year). He's the starter though so it makes more sense for him, I doubt Lance would want to do that unless his agent tells him that it's the best financial offer he will get.

Exactly. Everything is negotiable in the NFL, even the salary cap. Example, See all the players traded for their cap space etc.. You just have to decline the 5th option with the contingency that Kyle and Trey can work out a deal acceptable to both and work out the deal prior to the option lapsing. Simple.

Yeah, I think boast was just saying that you can't renegotiate the actual fifth year option. We would have to terminate it first and start from scratch on an extension.

if that happens, I'd imagine it's something similar to what Jordan love got - low base pay but lots of incentives built in. Essentially what sam darnold signed with us.

The 5th year option is Kyles leverage against Trey leaving for other pastures, so to speak. Again it depends on Treys progress this year and next, but by having a deal in place prior to the 5th year option lapsing, it is still a renegotiation of the 5th year option. Options are ether exercised or not - at the control of the option holder - in this case Kyle is the option holder.

Yeah but the decision has to be decided on at the end of this next season, before the start of the new league year (or by the draft, something like that), so it's like 7 months or so away

Agree, it has to be decided soon. Also agree that it has to be decided this year. That still gives Kyle negotiating power up until the exercise date of the option. After that, Trey is basically in Kinlaws situation next year. It's all up to Treys progress. Kinlaw couldn't convince Kyle to exercise the option but Trey still can. We shall see.

Just to make sure we are saying the same thing, the date the team has to decide on if they're exercising the option or not is before the next nfl draft. So they have to decide if they'll do it or not before the next nfl draft (before the start of treys fourth year). They can't choose to do it later than that.

yes, sorry for the misunderstanding, whenever the exercise date of the option, the day after is when the option ends, or the second *after* the exercise time and date, is when the option lapses. Now whether the NFL allows extensions because of missed paperwork, an act of god, or nuclear war breaking out, I think that remains to be litigated.

Originally posted by Shemp:

Originally posted by Afrikan:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Interesting take from Steve Young. He doesn't think Trey is slow mentally or confused but he's thinking too much trying to be perfect. Certainly possible.

Trey seems capable of making some plays out there, but he has to just settle down and run the offense. He's overwhelmed, that's very clear. The reason he's overwhelmed could be many different reasons.

Everything we've heard says he knows the offense super well, so why didn't he execute it properly most of Sunday?

He wasn't trusting his reads. Why? If they're processing fine, what would make a guy hesitate? If you look at where Trey was looking, it wasn't that he couldn't progress through his options, he just wouldn't pull the trigger and then half the time panicked or was late on throw to the outlet or third read.

It shows when he is in the pocket... it's not off instincts like when he first got in the league where he just ran out of there.... you see him try to do everything that he trained over the past few years. Protecting the ball with both hands while he hitches forward or around chaos, still looking down field. Now usually this is a good thing... he has to keep with this until it becomes natural.

Another example is when he leaves the pocket, where some think his athleticism is overrated....where as, imo, it's just because he's trying to be too perfect looking downfield instead of committing 100% to running forward. He's shown his quickness already.. has shown his agility already... but that slight hesitation is enough for these NFL defenders to catch up.

Again I feel he will be fine, he just needs to be out there more often. Time is ticking though, as far as playing time.

I have never seen agility or quickness from Lance. If anything, his pocket mobility and ability to be a running threat have both been extremely underwhelming.

first who are you? what was your old name on here? cause it sure wasn't Shemp.

anyway..

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by libertyforever:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by tankle104:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by tankle104:

Originally posted by boast:

Originally posted by Giedi:
That 20 million cap hit is negotiable as was Jimmy's last year with the 49ers. That 5th year option, should Kyle exercise it, does in a sense lock Trey with the 49ers, and that option can be renegotiated from a position of strength by Kyle if Trey's not progressed to where he's NOT getting offers from other teams commensurate with what Kyle can give him as QB2/QB3 for the 49ers.

you keep posting this but it isnt true. so let me post it again...

the 5th year option is A NON-NEGOTIABLE FIXED AMOUNT.



NFL.com

Yeah, it can't be renegotiated. It would have to be declined and then the team can negotiate an extension to his rookie scale contract (which would be only four years at that point). So the team has control over his fifth year, if they choose to execute it, but has to pay him a ton.

if they choose to decline it, they have to negotiate with Trey on an extension. So it doesn't guarantee he would want to.

Green Bay did that this year with Jordan love. Declined his fifth year option but negotiated a one year extension to his rookie contract (replacing what would of been the fifth year). He's the starter though so it makes more sense for him, I doubt Lance would want to do that unless his agent tells him that it's the best financial offer he will get.

Exactly. Everything is negotiable in the NFL, even the salary cap. Example, See all the players traded for their cap space etc.. You just have to decline the 5th option with the contingency that Kyle and Trey can work out a deal acceptable to both and work out the deal prior to the option lapsing. Simple.

Yeah, I think boast was just saying that you can't renegotiate the actual fifth year option. We would have to terminate it first and start from scratch on an extension.

if that happens, I'd imagine it's something similar to what Jordan love got - low base pay but lots of incentives built in. Essentially what sam darnold signed with us.

The 5th year option is Kyles leverage against Trey leaving for other pastures, so to speak. Again it depends on Treys progress this year and next, but by having a deal in place prior to the 5th year option lapsing, it is still a renegotiation of the 5th year option. Options are ether exercised or not - at the control of the option holder - in this case Kyle is the option holder.

What leverage are you talking about? The way it is right now, if we exercise the 5th year option, we would way over pay Trey $20M. Trey may not mind putting the $20M in his pocket.

When a call option is out of money, it has no intrinsic value. Essentially it is worthless.

Trey will have to do a ton this season for the call option to have any intrinsic value.

Assuming Trey's option is 20 million and Brock salary is 1 million, that's 21 million for a franchise QB and a stud backup with two more years remaining. Jimmy alone is costing the Bottom feeing raiders 23 million. Again the value of the option is in the mind of the option holder - not you.

No reason to look at it this way. If the team has an extra $20M cap space, you keep an additional star or two, or get a start or two from FA. Spending $20M on a backup QB is crazy. Trey is not even at stud backup at this point.

Originally posted by libertyforever:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by libertyforever:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by tankle104:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by tankle104:

Originally posted by boast:

Originally posted by Giedi:
That 20 million cap hit is negotiable as was Jimmy's last year with the 49ers. That 5th year option, should Kyle exercise it, does in a sense lock Trey with the 49ers, and that option can be renegotiated from a position of strength by Kyle if Trey's not progressed to where he's NOT getting offers from other teams commensurate with what Kyle can give him as QB2/QB3 for the 49ers.

you keep posting this but it isnt true. so let me post it again...

the 5th year option is A NON-NEGOTIABLE FIXED AMOUNT.



NFL.com

Yeah, it can't be renegotiated. It would have to be declined and then the team can negotiate an extension to his rookie scale contract (which would be only four years at that point). So the team has control over his fifth year, if they choose to execute it, but has to pay him a ton.

if they choose to decline it, they have to negotiate with Trey on an extension. So it doesn't guarantee he would want to.

Green Bay did that this year with Jordan love. Declined his fifth year option but negotiated a one year extension to his rookie contract (replacing what would of been the fifth year). He's the starter though so it makes more sense for him, I doubt Lance would want to do that unless his agent tells him that it's the best financial offer he will get.

Exactly. Everything is negotiable in the NFL, even the salary cap. Example, See all the players traded for their cap space etc.. You just have to decline the 5th option with the contingency that Kyle and Trey can work out a deal acceptable to both and work out the deal prior to the option lapsing. Simple.

Yeah, I think boast was just saying that you can't renegotiate the actual fifth year option. We would have to terminate it first and start from scratch on an extension.

if that happens, I'd imagine it's something similar to what Jordan love got - low base pay but lots of incentives built in. Essentially what sam darnold signed with us.

The 5th year option is Kyles leverage against Trey leaving for other pastures, so to speak. Again it depends on Treys progress this year and next, but by having a deal in place prior to the 5th year option lapsing, it is still a renegotiation of the 5th year option. Options are ether exercised or not - at the control of the option holder - in this case Kyle is the option holder.

What leverage are you talking about? The way it is right now, if we exercise the 5th year option, we would way over pay Trey $20M. Trey may not mind putting the $20M in his pocket.

When a call option is out of money, it has no intrinsic value. Essentially it is worthless.

Trey will have to do a ton this season for the call option to have any intrinsic value.

Assuming Trey's option is 20 million and Brock salary is 1 million, that's 21 million for a franchise QB and a stud backup with two more years remaining. Jimmy alone is costing the Bottom feeing raiders 23 million. Again the value of the option is in the mind of the option holder - not you.

No reason to look at it this way. If the team has an extra $20M cap space, you keep an additional star or two, or get a start or two from FA. Spending $20M on a backup QB is crazy. Trey is not even at stud backup at this point.

Disagree, just look at all the QB's we used up last year.