Dallas Cowboys QB Trey Lance Thread

Originally posted by OhioNiner:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
I find it so weird that Trey Lance is the only QB in NFL history who the media and a big chunk of our fan base believes should be born capable of playing NFL QB and not require any time to learn how to play the position first, how to read defenses, etc. It's just so odd. Lawrence, Fields, Wilson, Jones, all were given the benefit of the doubt while they were sucking as they learned how to do it in the NFL, and ALL of them had significantly more experience in college than Trey. And of course, Brock had four years as a starter in college, and Darnold had 55 games in the NFL.

Am I wrong on this? Is it not a little peculiar that in the case of Lance, it is assumed that if he is not immediately good without any reps or time to learn then he will be eternally bad? How does this make any sense? One of you Trey critics please explain this to me—and when you do please notice that in a single off-season he completely overhauled his mechanics and now is a pretty accurate passer. So that development never happened? Why is it that he's doomed to suck before he even gets a chance to learn? Why is he the only one with that designation?

I'd say yes you're wrong to a degree in which anytime you take such a huge sweeping statement as "the only QB in NFL history".

Off hand, I would say that the QB who was dubbed by Sports Illustrated as "Robo QB", whose father raised him to be the perfect quarterback, Todd Marinovich, would have fit into that QB. And obviously he was a massive bust.

And even quarterbacks who were considered generational if not for their arm talent, but for the talent they did have combined with their aptitude, Peyton Manning and Andrew Luck, and indeed whose fathers were former NFL QBs (and even teammates oddly at one point) would have faced similar expectations.

I think with Trey it's a combination of two or three things with both the media and the fan base. First, the media coverage and number of voices is larger than ever. In Marinovich's day, it was Sports Illustrated and ESPN, mostly. Other outlets as well but mostly. Now, Sports Illustrated is of course a different entity in this day and age but all defunct print media has been supplanted by the entire internet, which is, um, louder.

Combine that with the media's apparent desire to be hypercritical of the 49ers. Combine that with the fact that our "genius" head coach traded up to hand pick this wunderkid and there was always going to be a microscope. And even with that, we all are in our own fishbowl as Zach Wilson has liked had it tougher than Trey in that New York market.

Unfortunately for Trey it's a league and a world of what have you done for me lately and Trey hasn't been on the field to do much of anything. All of those QBs you mentioned given the benefit of the doubt, they also managed to stay on the field and play and learn through their mistakes. Well, in the case of Lawrence, Fields, and Jones anyway. Trey gets hurt, Brock Purdy comes out of nowhere to be the great "Rudy" story only one who's actually good, and Trey gets Wally Pipped and has to be not just adequate but amazing to any credit.

It's not fair of course. But I highly doubt if it's the first time in history even if each individual case has some uniqueness. Personally, I haven't been as much of a Trey critic as someone who felt like people were jumping the gun wanting to dump an admittedly limited, sometimes frustrating, but very competent QB in Jimmy for a guy who played relatively little at a FCS school. The unfortunate thing for him is he's seemingly stuck at this point barring injury as being the guy looked at as Kyle's handpicked future franchise QB who is just a backup at best barring another injury to Brock or his play regressing big time. And as a 3rd overall pick in the draft, traded up for, at that position, yeah unless and until that changes he's always going to have it tough. Fair or not.

I'd say I'm right, because it's not fair or reasonable to judge his entire career when he's not had two games in a row. It's reasonable to say he's injury prone and that kind of shot his opportunity with the 49ers, since he's missed an entire season and several games his rookie year (he's been hurt more than he's been available). But beyond that, I don't think it's reasonable.

Was very happy to see Trey settle in and lead those scoring drives. Not to take anything away from him Denver went into a soft prevent defense for those two drives. We'll see cut ups this week to show those soft cover 4 / 6 defenses.

I hate the prevent defense but it plays a role with probabilities. You have to be able to execute and he did so that's good.

When the defense was in a more aggressive scheme, he looked lost and made bad reads.

The key for Trey will be that we be able to move the ball and keep the score close during a game so that we are able to lead game winning drives against those defenses and not just collect yardage during garbage time.

Originally posted by riverrunzthruit:
The out of context narrative is that TL balled out last night with stats to support it... but we see this every year, backup qbs who do well late in preseason games against defensive players who will never got on the field in the regular season... most any backup qb will be successful passing against soft zone prevent coverages at the end of games with 3rd/4th team scrubs... TL's best ball is a fast ball straight down the field, the easiest ball to throw, requires no touch or directional placement and he hit on several of those tonight... compare his tape running Shanny's regular season offense to Brock and Sammy, like night and day it's not even close...

Shanny set up TL last night to succeed with plays that he can run best, not the KS base offense, to lock in QB3 as Brandon Allen didn't even get a chance, and TL sealed that up... KS pitched him a softball last night and I give TL credit for hitting it, took some time though and he tried to screw it up early (pick to a DL on a screen pass, come on LOL). If any QB on this team is not getting a fair chance it's Brandon Allen, I think KS is holding him back because he knows he will put up the tape needed to be QB3 so he is preventing that from happening... KS is trying hard at this point to save face with the TL debacle.

Which of those backups has as few reps as Trey in his life?

Also, the claim that Shanahan "set him up" is nonsense. Several of those plays late in the game were quick throws, which is exactly what he struggles with. He completed a slant, a skinny post, and a quick out on that touchdown drive. You are beyond help. It wasn't the scheme that changed. It was Lance, who grew a set of balls for once.

following up to add, Good Job Trey that's what we needed to see out of you!

Originally posted by Shorteous:
When the defense was in a more aggressive scheme, he looked lost and made bad reads.

The key for Trey will be that we be able to move the ball and keep the score close during a game so that we are able to lead game winning drives against those defenses and not just collect yardage during garbage time.

I've seen him look passive,...but I havent seen him look lost. And believe me,....I know what a lost QB looks like.

Longtime 9er fans would surely know as well. So the exaggeration is a little too strong here.

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by Shorteous:
When the defense was in a more aggressive scheme, he looked lost and made bad reads.

The key for Trey will be that we be able to move the ball and keep the score close during a game so that we are able to lead game winning drives against those defenses and not just collect yardage during garbage time.

I havent seen him look lost. And believe me,....I know what a lost QB looks like.

Longtime 9er fans would surely know as well. So the exaggeration is a little too strong here.

Meh use what ever word you want lol as long as the connotation is negative. Flat out he has not look good and decisive and not trusting what he is seeing in those drives.

Again he did and played exactly how we need him in those last two drives and that's what we all want but the context is that it was soft prevent defenses. We'll find out next week when he gets another shot at it, I presume he's second QB to play.

My fingers are crossed so tightly for him crossed 🤞

Originally posted by Shorteous:
Was very happy to see Trey settle in and lead those scoring drives. Not to take anything away from him Denver went into a soft prevent defense for those two drives. We'll see cut ups this week to show those soft cover 4 / 6 defenses.

I hate the prevent defense but it plays a role with probabilities. You have to be able to execute and he did so that's good.

When the defense was in a more aggressive scheme, he looked lost and made bad reads.

The key for Trey will be that we be able to move the ball and keep the score close during a game so that we are able to lead game winning drives against those defenses and not just collect yardage during garbage time.

At the end of the day, he made nice improvements. That's what you like to see. It'll build some confidence for him and reps to learn from. He still had some struggles and ugly plays but also made some excellent throws, showed off his improved accuracy.

excited to see how he does next week.

my personal thought is that he will play before darnold next week, because darnold holds the lead right now and Kyle will want to see Trey play against more normal coverages. That'll be a big determining factor in the QB battle.

Originally posted by Shorteous:
Meh use what ever word you want lol as long as the connotation is negative. Flat out he has not look good and decisive and not trusting what he is seeing in those drives.

Again he did and played exactly how we need him in those last two drives and that's what we all want but the context is that it was soft prevent defenses. We'll find out next week when he gets another shot at it, I presume he's second QB to play.

My fingers are crossed so tightly for him crossed 🤞

There is a difference. Much like Alex, Trey knows where he should go he's just thinking too much and not throwing. Can't play QB like that.

Originally posted by tankle104:

Originally posted by Shorteous:
Was very happy to see Trey settle in and lead those scoring drives. Not to take anything away from him Denver went into a soft prevent defense for those two drives. We'll see cut ups this week to show those soft cover 4 / 6 defenses.

I hate the prevent defense but it plays a role with probabilities. You have to be able to execute and he did so that's good.

When the defense was in a more aggressive scheme, he looked lost and made bad reads.

The key for Trey will be that we be able to move the ball and keep the score close during a game so that we are able to lead game winning drives against those defenses and not just collect yardage during garbage time.

At the end of the day, he made nice improvements. That's what you like to see. It'll build some confidence for him and reps to learn from. He still had some struggles and ugly plays but also made some excellent throws, showed off his improved accuracy.

excited to see how he does next week.

my personal thought is that he will play before darnold next week, because darnold holds the lead right now and Kyle will want to see Trey play against more normal coverages. That'll be a big determining factor in the QB battle.

I agree completely, we are all eager to see how he he plays, we all want him to play strong from the get go and we all want him to succeed.

He's as Great human being and easy to root for!

Glad to se TL bounce back.

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
I find it so weird that Trey Lance is the only QB in NFL history who the media and a big chunk of our fan base believes should be born capable of playing NFL QB and not require any time to learn how to play the position first, how to read defenses, etc. It's just so odd. Lawrence, Fields, Wilson, Jones, all were given the benefit of the doubt while they were sucking as they learned how to do it in the NFL, and ALL of them had significantly more experience in college than Trey. And of course, Brock had four years as a starter in college, and Darnold had 55 games in the NFL.

Am I wrong on this? Is it not a little peculiar that in the case of Lance, it is assumed that if he is not immediately good without any reps or time to learn then he will be eternally bad? How does this make any sense? One of you Trey critics please explain this to me—and when you do please notice that in a single off-season he completely overhauled his mechanics and now is a pretty accurate passer. So that development never happened? Why is it that he's doomed to suck before he even gets a chance to learn? Why is he the only one with that designation?

I think it's because you're so eager to defend Trey that you don't look at each situation in its entirety.

I must disagree. You are the unreasonable ones, not me. It's unreasonable to declare a QB a bust* when he hasn't even had the opportunity to play two full games in a row—especially when it's one coming out of college so raw and in need of reps. Even Zach Wilson had NINETEEN GAMES in which he threw 20 or more passes. 'Looking at the situation in its entirety" would presumably require taking note that Zach Wilson has played roughly four times as many games, and Trey has played ZERO consecutively to completion.

As for me, the reason I get so heated about this is the degree of unreasonableness from you guys. It's absurd, and thus supremely annoying to me.

*EDIT: unless that guy simply never gets on the field because of injury; Trey is ALMOST an injury bust, but not quite. He'll need another serious injury and then lose all confidence and retire in a couple of years, by my counting.

Originally posted by krizay:
Lawrence was proven coming out. Then was put in an environment set up to fail in year one. He struggled. His struggles was documented. His environment changed as did his expectations and play.

Lots of "proven" QBs turn out to be busts. He struggled more often than Trey did, because Trey hasn't even played enough to struggle as much. At no point ever did people declare Lawrence was a bust and will never get better, because in his case they understood that rookie QBs need lots of reps to figure out the NFL.

Originally posted by krizay:
Fields played in big games in college so he had some sweat equity. He too was put in an environment setup to fail. His struggles were well documented. His environment changed and while his passing play still underwhelmed some of it could be due to personnel. This offseason will tell his story.

He gets the opportunity to develop before he is judged a bust. Again.

Originally posted by krizay:
Mac Jones complete opposite of 1st two. Was drafted in a great environment played decent. Then put in a bad environment and struggled. This year he is back in a good environment.

Jones efficiency numbers were almost identical to Trey's in their rookie seasons.

Originally posted by krizay:
Zach Wilson drafted into a good environment. Struggled and got benched.

First of all, Zach Wilson has had NINETEEN GAMES in which he's thrown twenty or more passes. Second, he lost major points because of his attitude and comments regarding his teammates. He did not display leadership, and now the narrative is that he is too immature and needs to grow up. However, it is still thought that given enough time he may figure things out.

Originally posted by krizay:
Trey was drafted into a great environment Struggled. And now fighting to be 2nd string.

His first year he won a game that was required for us to make the playoffs, and played darn good in the second half. That's not nothing but struggle.
All these guys played MULTIPLE GAMES to give us an idea of what they are. LANCE HAS NOT HAD ENOUGH TIME FOR ANYONE TO KNOW, PERIOD.

Originally posted by krizay:

The 1st 3 was given benefit of doubt because of supporting cast and coaching staffs.

They were given the benefit of the doubt because they played in consecutive games and didn't disappear from the national narrative due to injury.

Originally posted by krizay:
As you see with Wilson if you don't have any excuse not to succeed and you fail you won't play.

*When you also act like a buffoon to the media during your press conference. He didn't fully fall out of grace until then, and besides, he had NINETEEN GAMES in which he threw twenty or more passes.

Originally posted by krizay:
You say he completely overhauled his mechanics in a single off-season. Truth is he's being working on all that since 2019. It's been multiple off-seasons. The fact it took 3 years here for him to figure that out is on him. Zach Wilson has already proved Trey isn't the only one with that designation. If Justin and/or Mac struggles this year, they too will be cast aside.

First of all, the finger injury hurt him that second season. Second, he was being coached by the wrong QB coaches. Third, Zach Wilson has had WAY more opportunities to play than Lance. Again, NINETEEN GAMES WITH TWENTY OR MORE PASSES. I hope it is now clear to you that I am saying FOUR GAMES, NONE of which were consecutive, is not enough information to know what a QB will be, while NINETEEN is a lot more information.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by Shorteous:
Meh use what ever word you want lol as long as the connotation is negative. Flat out he has not look good and decisive and not trusting what he is seeing in those drives.

Again he did and played exactly how we need him in those last two drives and that's what we all want but the context is that it was soft prevent defenses. We'll find out next week when he gets another shot at it, I presume he's second QB to play.

My fingers are crossed so tightly for him crossed 🤞

There is a difference. Much like Alex, Trey knows where he should go he's just thinking too much and not throwing. Can't play QB like that.

I think Alex was much more conservative than Lance. Lance attempts, and can make/does make, throws Alex very rarely attempted. Those tight window intermediate passes. I'm glad Trey isn't as conservative as Alex was, but both are over thinking. Trey just needs to just keep trusting himself and gunning it.

that's really a big part of Brock's game. His confidence and trust in himself, he guns passed in there. He does it a lot during practice and that's why you hear about the interceptions, but it's great for their growth and confidence on game day.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
There is a difference. Much like Alex, Trey knows where he should go he's just thinking too much and not throwing. Can't play QB like that.

Maybe so

Originally posted by Shorteous:

Originally posted by tankle104:

Originally posted by Shorteous:
Was very happy to see Trey settle in and lead those scoring drives. Not to take anything away from him Denver went into a soft prevent defense for those two drives. We'll see cut ups this week to show those soft cover 4 / 6 defenses.

I hate the prevent defense but it plays a role with probabilities. You have to be able to execute and he did so that's good.

When the defense was in a more aggressive scheme, he looked lost and made bad reads.

The key for Trey will be that we be able to move the ball and keep the score close during a game so that we are able to lead game winning drives against those defenses and not just collect yardage during garbage time.

At the end of the day, he made nice improvements. That's what you like to see. It'll build some confidence for him and reps to learn from. He still had some struggles and ugly plays but also made some excellent throws, showed off his improved accuracy.

excited to see how he does next week.

my personal thought is that he will play before darnold next week, because darnold holds the lead right now and Kyle will want to see Trey play against more normal coverages. That'll be a big determining factor in the QB battle.

I agree completely, we are all eager to see how he he plays, we all want him to play strong from the get go and we all want him to succeed.

He's as Great human being and easy to root for!

Honestly, even people who strongly dislike Lance, should be rooting for him. It's a win/win for everyone - the organization gets an asset with improved value and a better backup. Die hard Trey fans get some confirmation that he really can play in this league etc.

I've alway maintained he could play well in this league, I just think he needs a ton of reps that we can't really afford right now.

even though these are pre season reps. It's just more film of himself that he can study and grow from, more experiences for him to revert back to during his future play. It's all important.

Originally posted by tankle104:
I think Alex was much more conservative than Lance. Lance attempts, and can make/does make, throws Alex very rarely attempted. Those tight window intermediate passes. I'm glad Trey isn't as conservative as Alex was, but both are over thinking. Trey just needs to just keep trusting himself and gunning it.

that's really a big part of Brock's game. His confidence and trust in himself, he guns passed in there. He does it a lot during practice and that's why you hear about the interceptions, but it's great for their growth and confidence on game day.

Don't disagree. Referring more to the indecisiveness of both. Alex knew where to go with the ball he just wouldn't throw it. Can't have that.

Brock is definitely not indecisive. It could very well be that Brock just is that good and none of our guys can compete with him. That may not be an indictment on any of em. Just like it wasn't an indictment of Drew Bledsoe.