Dallas Cowboys QB Trey Lance Thread

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by OhioNiner:
You can put conditions on anything.

No. The condition I put revolves around the same simple premise: Trey is inexperienced,...is growing,...and we don't know how he'll end up given a full season slate as a starter.

Jimmy? I've already seen the kind of player Jimmy G is as a starter. No conditions there,...nor is there a need to go back and time and "what if."

You see the difference?

We'll just agree to disagree because the only "difference" I see is you saying an argument can be made that an "inexperienced, growing QB whom we don't know how he'll end up" would arguably have made us a runaway Super Bowl favorite in that same first season of growth.

To me you reached greatly and now you've even indirectly acknowledged that you did. But maybe it isn't that important. Arguing back and forth about it isn't going to serve a purpose.

Originally posted by tankle104:
Honestly, even people who strongly dislike Lance, should be rooting for him. It's a win/win for everyone - the organization gets an asset with improved value and a better backup. Die hard Trey fans get some confirmation that he really can play in this league etc.

I've alway maintained he could play well in this league, I just think he needs a ton of reps that we can't really afford right now.

even though these are pre season reps. It's just more film of himself that he can study and grow from, more experiences for him to revert back to during his future play. It's all important.

As we talked about earlier in the week, I really hope he's runs the Scout team this year and he presses.

Originally posted by tankle104:
Honestly, even people who strongly dislike Lance, should be rooting for him. It's a win/win for everyone - the organization gets an asset with improved value and a better backup. Die hard Trey fans get some confirmation that he really can play in this league etc.

I've alway maintained he could play well in this league, I just think he needs a ton of reps that we can't really afford right now.

even though these are pre season reps. It's just more film of himself that he can study and grow from, more experiences for him to revert back to during his future play. It's all important.

This team could afford it if we didn't have Brock. Their only concern should be developing a franchise QB. Even if it means taking a step back with whoever that is. We aren't gonna beat the AFC in the SB unless we get a guy of our own.

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by OhioNiner:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
I find it so weird that Trey Lance is the only QB in NFL history who the media and a big chunk of our fan base believes should be born capable of playing NFL QB and not require any time to learn how to play the position first, how to read defenses, etc. It's just so odd. Lawrence, Fields, Wilson, Jones, all were given the benefit of the doubt while they were sucking as they learned how to do it in the NFL, and ALL of them had significantly more experience in college than Trey. And of course, Brock had four years as a starter in college, and Darnold had 55 games in the NFL.

Am I wrong on this? Is it not a little peculiar that in the case of Lance, it is assumed that if he is not immediately good without any reps or time to learn then he will be eternally bad? How does this make any sense? One of you Trey critics please explain this to me—and when you do please notice that in a single off-season he completely overhauled his mechanics and now is a pretty accurate passer. So that development never happened? Why is it that he's doomed to suck before he even gets a chance to learn? Why is he the only one with that designation?

I'd say yes you're wrong to a degree in which anytime you take such a huge sweeping statement as "the only QB in NFL history".

Off hand, I would say that the QB who was dubbed by Sports Illustrated as "Robo QB", whose father raised him to be the perfect quarterback, Todd Marinovich, would have fit into that QB. And obviously he was a massive bust.

And even quarterbacks who were considered generational if not for their arm talent, but for the talent they did have combined with their aptitude, Peyton Manning and Andrew Luck, and indeed whose fathers were former NFL QBs (and even teammates oddly at one point) would have faced similar expectations.

I think with Trey it's a combination of two or three things with both the media and the fan base. First, the media coverage and number of voices is larger than ever. In Marinovich's day, it was Sports Illustrated and ESPN, mostly. Other outlets as well but mostly. Now, Sports Illustrated is of course a different entity in this day and age but all defunct print media has been supplanted by the entire internet, which is, um, louder.

Combine that with the media's apparent desire to be hypercritical of the 49ers. Combine that with the fact that our "genius" head coach traded up to hand pick this wunderkid and there was always going to be a microscope. And even with that, we all are in our own fishbowl as Zach Wilson has liked had it tougher than Trey in that New York market.

Unfortunately for Trey it's a league and a world of what have you done for me lately and Trey hasn't been on the field to do much of anything. All of those QBs you mentioned given the benefit of the doubt, they also managed to stay on the field and play and learn through their mistakes. Well, in the case of Lawrence, Fields, and Jones anyway. Trey gets hurt, Brock Purdy comes out of nowhere to be the great "Rudy" story only one who's actually good, and Trey gets Wally Pipped and has to be not just adequate but amazing to any credit.

It's not fair of course. But I highly doubt if it's the first time in history even if each individual case has some uniqueness. Personally, I haven't been as much of a Trey critic as someone who felt like people were jumping the gun wanting to dump an admittedly limited, sometimes frustrating, but very competent QB in Jimmy for a guy who played relatively little at a FCS school. The unfortunate thing for him is he's seemingly stuck at this point barring injury as being the guy looked at as Kyle's handpicked future franchise QB who is just a backup at best barring another injury to Brock or his play regressing big time. And as a 3rd overall pick in the draft, traded up for, at that position, yeah unless and until that changes he's always going to have it tough. Fair or not.

I'd say I'm right, because it's not fair or reasonable to judge his entire career when he's not had two games in a row. It's reasonable to say he's injury prone and that kind of shot his opportunity with the 49ers, since he's missed an entire season and several games his rookie year (he's been hurt more than he's been available). But beyond that, I don't think it's reasonable.

Well, I mean Lol.

You expect people on the internet and in the media to be "reasonable"?

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by tankle104:
I think Alex was much more conservative than Lance. Lance attempts, and can make/does make, throws Alex very rarely attempted. Those tight window intermediate passes. I'm glad Trey isn't as conservative as Alex was, but both are over thinking. Trey just needs to just keep trusting himself and gunning it.

that's really a big part of Brock's game. His confidence and trust in himself, he guns passed in there. He does it a lot during practice and that's why you hear about the interceptions, but it's great for their growth and confidence on game day.

Don't disagree. Referring more to the indecisiveness of both. Alex knew where to go with the ball he just wouldn't throw it. Can't have that.

Brock is definitely not indecisive. It could very well be that Brock just is that good and none of our guys can compete with him. That may not be an indictment on any of em. Just like it wasn't an indictment of Drew Bledsoe.

Yeah, neither one of them are dumb. They understand the play. Especially Lance, it's year 3 of the same system. I view it slightly different though - I felt like Alex didn't throw it because it wasn't "open", too risky/low percentage of a throw for his appetite. Where I view trey as just unsure because the speed of the game and his lack of experience. I think treys issue is much easier to fix/improve, where as Alex's was kinda built into his personality. If that make sense.

My personal opinion is that Brock is an outlier and capable of being a "franchise QB", someone special. Where I view darnold and Lance as more of high end game managers (which I think is the highest level of play outside of franchise QBs/elite guys). They're both very capable of playing well for a franchise and all of that, but idk if you want to build a trek around them. You need them to have a good team and they can win with that, but they won't be the core of your system. They won't be guys making everyone around them and elevating the squad to championship level, if the squad isn't championship level already.

Originally posted by tankle104:

Originally posted by Shorteous:

Originally posted by tankle104:

Originally posted by Shorteous:
Was very happy to see Trey settle in and lead those scoring drives. Not to take anything away from him Denver went into a soft prevent defense for those two drives. We'll see cut ups this week to show those soft cover 4 / 6 defenses.

I hate the prevent defense but it plays a role with probabilities. You have to be able to execute and he did so that's good.

When the defense was in a more aggressive scheme, he looked lost and made bad reads.

The key for Trey will be that we be able to move the ball and keep the score close during a game so that we are able to lead game winning drives against those defenses and not just collect yardage during garbage time.

At the end of the day, he made nice improvements. That's what you like to see. It'll build some confidence for him and reps to learn from. He still had some struggles and ugly plays but also made some excellent throws, showed off his improved accuracy.

excited to see how he does next week.

my personal thought is that he will play before darnold next week, because darnold holds the lead right now and Kyle will want to see Trey play against more normal coverages. That'll be a big determining factor in the QB battle.

I agree completely, we are all eager to see how he he plays, we all want him to play strong from the get go and we all want him to succeed.

He's as Great human being and easy to root for!

Honestly, even people who strongly dislike Lance, should be rooting for him. It's a win/win for everyone - the organization gets an asset with improved value and a better backup. Die hard Trey fans get some confirmation that he really can play in this league etc.

I've alway maintained he could play well in this league, I just think he needs a ton of reps that we can't really afford right now.

even though these are pre season reps. It's just more film of himself that he can study and grow from, more experiences for him to revert back to during his future play. It's all important.

Why would anyone "strongly dislike" Lance or anyone on the team? I can see not believing in someone, but strongly dislike?

However I do believe, despite how unreasonable it is, there are people here who strongly dislike him.

Originally posted by OhioNiner:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by OhioNiner:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
I find it so weird that Trey Lance is the only QB in NFL history who the media and a big chunk of our fan base believes should be born capable of playing NFL QB and not require any time to learn how to play the position first, how to read defenses, etc. It's just so odd. Lawrence, Fields, Wilson, Jones, all were given the benefit of the doubt while they were sucking as they learned how to do it in the NFL, and ALL of them had significantly more experience in college than Trey. And of course, Brock had four years as a starter in college, and Darnold had 55 games in the NFL.

Am I wrong on this? Is it not a little peculiar that in the case of Lance, it is assumed that if he is not immediately good without any reps or time to learn then he will be eternally bad? How does this make any sense? One of you Trey critics please explain this to me—and when you do please notice that in a single off-season he completely overhauled his mechanics and now is a pretty accurate passer. So that development never happened? Why is it that he's doomed to suck before he even gets a chance to learn? Why is he the only one with that designation?

I'd say yes you're wrong to a degree in which anytime you take such a huge sweeping statement as "the only QB in NFL history".

Off hand, I would say that the QB who was dubbed by Sports Illustrated as "Robo QB", whose father raised him to be the perfect quarterback, Todd Marinovich, would have fit into that QB. And obviously he was a massive bust.

And even quarterbacks who were considered generational if not for their arm talent, but for the talent they did have combined with their aptitude, Peyton Manning and Andrew Luck, and indeed whose fathers were former NFL QBs (and even teammates oddly at one point) would have faced similar expectations.

I think with Trey it's a combination of two or three things with both the media and the fan base. First, the media coverage and number of voices is larger than ever. In Marinovich's day, it was Sports Illustrated and ESPN, mostly. Other outlets as well but mostly. Now, Sports Illustrated is of course a different entity in this day and age but all defunct print media has been supplanted by the entire internet, which is, um, louder.

Combine that with the media's apparent desire to be hypercritical of the 49ers. Combine that with the fact that our "genius" head coach traded up to hand pick this wunderkid and there was always going to be a microscope. And even with that, we all are in our own fishbowl as Zach Wilson has liked had it tougher than Trey in that New York market.

Unfortunately for Trey it's a league and a world of what have you done for me lately and Trey hasn't been on the field to do much of anything. All of those QBs you mentioned given the benefit of the doubt, they also managed to stay on the field and play and learn through their mistakes. Well, in the case of Lawrence, Fields, and Jones anyway. Trey gets hurt, Brock Purdy comes out of nowhere to be the great "Rudy" story only one who's actually good, and Trey gets Wally Pipped and has to be not just adequate but amazing to any credit.

It's not fair of course. But I highly doubt if it's the first time in history even if each individual case has some uniqueness. Personally, I haven't been as much of a Trey critic as someone who felt like people were jumping the gun wanting to dump an admittedly limited, sometimes frustrating, but very competent QB in Jimmy for a guy who played relatively little at a FCS school. The unfortunate thing for him is he's seemingly stuck at this point barring injury as being the guy looked at as Kyle's handpicked future franchise QB who is just a backup at best barring another injury to Brock or his play regressing big time. And as a 3rd overall pick in the draft, traded up for, at that position, yeah unless and until that changes he's always going to have it tough. Fair or not.

I'd say I'm right, because it's not fair or reasonable to judge his entire career when he's not had two games in a row. It's reasonable to say he's injury prone and that kind of shot his opportunity with the 49ers, since he's missed an entire season and several games his rookie year (he's been hurt more than he's been available). But beyond that, I don't think it's reasonable.

Well, I mean Lol.

You expect people on the internet and in the media to be "reasonable"?

Okay good point lol. But I feel the Trey situation is a bit of an outlier. And I do believe part of it is media guys are still salty Shanahan pulled an okey-doke on them regarding Mac Jones.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by tankle104:
Honestly, even people who strongly dislike Lance, should be rooting for him. It's a win/win for everyone - the organization gets an asset with improved value and a better backup. Die hard Trey fans get some confirmation that he really can play in this league etc.

I've alway maintained he could play well in this league, I just think he needs a ton of reps that we can't really afford right now.

even though these are pre season reps. It's just more film of himself that he can study and grow from, more experiences for him to revert back to during his future play. It's all important.

This team could afford it if we didn't have Brock. Their only concern should be developing a franchise QB. Even if it means taking a step back with whoever that is. We aren't gonna beat the AFC in the SB unless we get a guy of our own.

I just posted about this a moment ago but I think Brock is that guy and Lance/Darnold aren't. They're both quality players but i think Brock has the ability to be special and elevate a franchise, like he's already done. So I think we have the best guy as QB1 for the present and future. That's my opinion.

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Why would anyone "strongly dislike" Lance or anyone on the team? I can see not believing in someone, but strongly dislike?

However I do believe, despite how unreasonable it is, there are people here who strongly dislike him.

I think the people who "strongly dislike" Trey, that it doesn't have anything really to do with Trey in and of himself. I think some people want to be right about their take on him and will do/say whatever they need to in an effort to still feel like their original take was right.

that isnt unique to Lance, happens with all players, but it gets magnified with QBs.

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Why would anyone "strongly dislike" Lance or anyone on the team? I can see not believing in someone, but strongly dislike?

However I do believe, despite how unreasonable it is, there are people here who strongly dislike him.

Three reasons

1. they are insecure and don't want anyone to threaten the guy they like

2. They need to be right and thus have dug in deep

3. They can't stand the people who support Trey similarly to the way they support their guy.

In summary… it's all about them

The argument over Trey vs Brock will continue until one is traded or leaves. I'm not as down on Trey as many of the posters are but I'm not as thumbs up on Brock as many are either.

As far as I'm concerned, neither has proven they can or can't play. It's just too small of a sample size. If Brock plays like he did last year for an entire year and then does it again in 2024 then I'll feel like we have a real solid QB. Seven games isn't enough to convince me. Same for Trey. Until I've seen enough to know for sure that he can't play in the NFL I'll just wait and see.

I've seen this picture too many times to jump on a band wagon only to get let down. It's been a long time since we've had a QB that's played well 2 or more seasons in a row or even stayed healthy 2 straight seasons.

Originally posted by Shorteous:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Why would anyone "strongly dislike" Lance or anyone on the team? I can see not believing in someone, but strongly dislike?

However I do believe, despite how unreasonable it is, there are people here who strongly dislike him.

Three reasons

1. they are insecure and don't want anyone to threaten the guy they like

2. They need to be right and thus have dug in deep

3. They can't stand the people who support Trey similarly to the way they support their guy.

In summary… it's all about them

Originally posted by tankle104:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Why would anyone "strongly dislike" Lance or anyone on the team? I can see not believing in someone, but strongly dislike?

However I do believe, despite how unreasonable it is, there are people here who strongly dislike him.

I think the people who "strongly dislike" Trey, that it doesn't have anything really to do with Trey in and of himself. I think some people want to be right about their take on him and will do/say whatever they need to in an effort to still feel like their original take was right.

that isnt unique to Lance, happens with all players, but it gets magnified with QBs.

I have a crackpot theory: I think the real reason is that he was initially drafted to replace Jimmy G. Especially one of the guys (the one with multiple accounts that have been banned), because I'm pretty sure that dude is a Jimmy family member or friend (this was the guy who said Steve Young had the weakest arm in NFL history).

Originally posted by Ezekiel38:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by tankle104:

Kudos to Trey man. That was awesome to see him redeem himself after a rough start, especially to lead us to a win.

i was hoping Kyle would go for the TD and let Trey try to punch it in, but it's all good. I think Kyle wanted to give moody some confidence.

hell of a finish for Trey. I've been saying it, he needs to play loose and with "eff it". The plays are there for him, he just needs to stop being hesitant/timid.

Agree. I think so far, based on the games it seems like Sammy D is QB2. The stat line doesn't tell the story of how well he played. Awful penalties and drop tip interceptions ruined chunk plays he should've had. Now to be fair, Trey had a few of his chunk plays called back or dropped too.

Overall though, Sam has more NFL experience and is obviously very talented too. At the end of the day, do you trust Lance who doesn't have much NFL experience, to get critical wins? I don't think I'm there now.

I like Lance but from what I've seen so far, Sam has the edge now.

He already got us a critical win in his one opportunity vs the Texans. A win or be eliminated from playoff contention game.

f**k Sam Darnold's garbage ass w 55 starts of looking like doo doo. Darnold been the weakest qb in camp too being outplayed by Lance and Purdy.

Lance is QB2 to start the season. Give the dude reps and live game time and and you'll see him play like he just did racking up big time yards in short periods. Purdy better win us a f**king Super Bowl since his play last year is going to prevent Lance from getting that live game experience which is the one thing he needs.

Trey was awesome after a rough start yesterday, but I'm also trying to think through the coach's lens.

I used to think Trey was QB2 all the way. Now I'm conflicted.

I have been one of the biggest Darnold skeptics out there, but I won't let that keep me from giving a fair review. Sam's stats yesterday were badly skewed because of Bells drop interception, penalties, and busted protections that had nothing to do with him. He moved the ball downfield every time he was out there though, that's what you wanna see.

The turnovers have been the issue for Sam. With this team, frankly.. if he can significantly lower those, he could honestly be like a more mobile Jimmy G.

Originally posted by tankle104:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Why would anyone "strongly dislike" Lance or anyone on the team? I can see not believing in someone, but strongly dislike?

However I do believe, despite how unreasonable it is, there are people here who strongly dislike him.

I think the people who "strongly dislike" Trey, that it doesn't have anything really to do with Trey in and of himself. I think some people want to be right about their take on him and will do/say whatever they need to in an effort to still feel like their original take was right.

that isnt unique to Lance, happens with all players, but it gets magnified with QBs.

I think the antagonistic cycle has most to do with it. People like to be jerks to one another (plenty on both sides).

Trey settled down and started making things happen. Bounced back after throwing that too-flat pass for an interception. Some really nice throws in those last two drives. Loved seeing it!

Originally posted by tankle104:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by tankle104:
Honestly, even people who strongly dislike Lance, should be rooting for him. It's a win/win for everyone - the organization gets an asset with improved value and a better backup. Die hard Trey fans get some confirmation that he really can play in this league etc.

I've alway maintained he could play well in this league, I just think he needs a ton of reps that we can't really afford right now.

even though these are pre season reps. It's just more film of himself that he can study and grow from, more experiences for him to revert back to during his future play. It's all important.

This team could afford it if we didn't have Brock. Their only concern should be developing a franchise QB. Even if it means taking a step back with whoever that is. We aren't gonna beat the AFC in the SB unless we get a guy of our own.

I just posted about this a moment ago but I think Brock is that guy and Lance/Darnold aren't. They're both quality players but i think Brock has the ability to be special and elevate a franchise, like he's already done. So I think we have the best guy as QB1 for the present and future. That's my opinion.

I'd say Purdy looks like a top tier QB so far, but it's still a bit early to know for certain. He has some room to develop though, which is a great sign. He's not reached his ceiling. But on the flip side, I believe both Lance and Darnold have the raw ability to be better than Purdy can ever hope to be. However, unfulfilled potential in the NFL is as common as prospects who never play in a regular season game.