Dallas Cowboys QB Trey Lance Thread

Originally posted by Dshearn:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
I find it so weird that Trey Lance is the only QB in NFL history who the media and a big chunk of our fan base believes should be born capable of playing NFL QB and not require any time to learn how to play the position first, how to read defenses, etc.

Am I wrong on this?

As far as I know, for the entirety of the NFL existence... people expect top 5 QBs to be able to play...QB.... by their 3rd year. This has been the expectation for "franchise QBs"

This is not a new expectation for Trey.

What has been found out over the years is many QBs, including Trey are not nearly as good as they were expected to be.

You people keep saying "3rd year" as if his total regular season experience even has reached a single year. How about restate your message with "FOUR GAMES" and see if it sounds stupid or not.

Keep Trey around, if Trent or another O-line starter goes down, you can bet a QB will get clipped with our backups on the line. we need that insurance.

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
You people keep saying "3rd year" as if his total regular season experience even has reached a single year. How about restate your message with "FOUR GAMES"He was and see if it sounds stupid or not.

He was given the job last year despite not being the better QB (Jimmy G) and got injured it isn't like the 49ers didn't try to put him on the field to give him the experience he was just massively outshined by Purdy last year

Originally posted by Shemp:

Originally posted by TreyDeyEeyDey:

Originally posted by Shemp:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by Koldo:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
The argument over Trey vs Brock will continue until one is traded or leaves. I'm not as down on Trey as many of the posters are but I'm not as thumbs up on Brock as many are either.

As far as I'm concerned, neither has proven they can or can't play. It's just too small of a sample size. If Brock plays like he did last year for an entire year and then does it again in 2024 then I'll feel like we have a real solid QB. Seven games isn't enough to convince me. Same for Trey. Until I've seen enough to know for sure that he can't play in the NFL I'll just wait and see.

I've seen this picture too many times to jump on a band wagon only to get let down. It's been a long time since we've had a QB that's played well 2 or more seasons in a row or even stayed healthy 2 straight seasons.

There's no "Purdy vs Trey" argument.

Brock is QB1 and he'll probably be our FQB.

Trey is only fighting to secure QB2.

Nice projection after 7 starts. We still don't know if he can repeat what he did last year and again the following year. We don't know if he can stay healthy. Those are requirements for a franchise QB. He doesn't have some of the skills that a true franchise QB possesses but he has the mental part down. Let's see if he can keep on overcoming his lack of speed and arm strength. If you look at him objectively he is very similar to JG in physical skills. Even if Jimmy had stayed healthy he wasn't considered a franchise QB. Almost everyone looked at him as somewhere between 12 and 15. Some had him between 15-20. That doesn't mean the team can't win. They just need to keep a lot of good talent around him because he's not going to take over a game with his physical tools. Have a strong defense that will keep the scoring down and they'll always have a chance.

We've been ove rand ove rLance's issues. It really comes down to experience or lack of it. There's no question about his physical skills but his limitations show u in live action. He looked better last night but he still has a long way to go.

The Purdy vs Trey argument will happen if Brock falters thus season or next season and Trey shows improvement. Right now there isn't an argument about which one should start but the team always needs to be looking 2,3 or 4 years down the road.

^ this drives me nuts. People discrediting Purdy because a half season of being one of the best QBs in the NFL, and by some measures the best QB in the NFL, isn't enough, meanwhile Trey gets excuses because he hasn't played enough. Just go with what what your eyes and the results are showing you. So far, Purdy has delivered incredibly, fantastically beyond the expectation of 32 GMs in the league, and so far, Trey has been disappointing, probably below what all 32 GMs were expecting - especially in a KS offense. Things can change, but we should not be making excuses for winners and we should not be making excuses for losers. Our QBs are what their stats say they are. With the exception of Trey's "fake" TD last week, lol.

While I fully agree that Purdy is the better talent atm and it's not even questionable Purdy gets passes for missing TD's while Trey get's called fake TD's.

Dude, take a statistics class. When you extract a sample from the Population (capital P), it does not represent the Population. I can play the exact same game with Tom Brady if you want me to, cherry picking a suboptimal play and then extrapolating that he's the worst of all time. Or you can successfully run a candy store and then extrapolate that you can therefore run all of Walmart. It just doesn't work that way.

First off, the play above was almost a TD and was not that bad of a play. Second, if you look at the body of Purdy's work, both in college and the NFL, he's a rock star so far, and the best predictor of future performance is past performance. All things considered, Purdy kicked ass in yesterday's game.

As someone who tutored people in statistics in college and did statistics home work for money in college, I concur that Trey's career sample size is insufficient to make any concrete judgement on his career, such as so many of you here have done in the negative.

Originally posted by ritz126:

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:

Originally posted by JTB1974:

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:
What he's looking for in a QB to run his offense doesn't matter, what matters is what some Joe blow on the internet thinks lol

doesnt matter that Brock was running the offense at it's best since probably Matt Ryan's MVP year. And putting up stellar pts per game. Lol

Well if he wants people to stop questioning his decision making when it comes to the QB position, Win the damn Superbowl.

Bengals, Bills, Chargers coaches should be questioned for their QB decision making because they too haven't won it all either. Psshh and here they thought they had elite QBs lol

poor miami too they wasted all those years playing Dan Marino

They should've looked for an elite QB instead of wasting all that time.

Originally posted by JoseCortez:

Originally posted by mattster03:

Originally posted by TreyDeyEeyDey:

Originally posted by Shemp:

Originally posted by TreyDeyEeyDey:

Originally posted by Shemp:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by Koldo:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
The argument over Trey vs Brock will continue until one is traded or leaves. I'm not as down on Trey as many of the posters are but I'm not as thumbs up on Brock as many are either.

As far as I'm concerned, neither has proven they can or can't play. It's just too small of a sample size. If Brock plays like he did last year for an entire year and then does it again in 2024 then I'll feel like we have a real solid QB. Seven games isn't enough to convince me. Same for Trey. Until I've seen enough to know for sure that he can't play in the NFL I'll just wait and see.

I've seen this picture too many times to jump on a band wagon only to get let down. It's been a long time since we've had a QB that's played well 2 or more seasons in a row or even stayed healthy 2 straight seasons.

There's no "Purdy vs Trey" argument.

Brock is QB1 and he'll probably be our FQB.

Trey is only fighting to secure QB2.

Nice projection after 7 starts. We still don't know if he can repeat what he did last year and again the following year. We don't know if he can stay healthy. Those are requirements for a franchise QB. He doesn't have some of the skills that a true franchise QB possesses but he has the mental part down. Let's see if he can keep on overcoming his lack of speed and arm strength. If you look at him objectively he is very similar to JG in physical skills. Even if Jimmy had stayed healthy he wasn't considered a franchise QB. Almost everyone looked at him as somewhere between 12 and 15. Some had him between 15-20. That doesn't mean the team can't win. They just need to keep a lot of good talent around him because he's not going to take over a game with his physical tools. Have a strong defense that will keep the scoring down and they'll always have a chance.

We've been ove rand ove rLance's issues. It really comes down to experience or lack of it. There's no question about his physical skills but his limitations show u in live action. He looked better last night but he still has a long way to go.

The Purdy vs Trey argument will happen if Brock falters thus season or next season and Trey shows improvement. Right now there isn't an argument about which one should start but the team always needs to be looking 2,3 or 4 years down the road.

^ this drives me nuts. People discrediting Purdy because a half season of being one of the best QBs in the NFL, and by some measures the best QB in the NFL, isn't enough, meanwhile Trey gets excuses because he hasn't played enough. Just go with what what your eyes and the results are showing you. So far, Purdy has delivered incredibly, fantastically beyond the expectation of 32 GMs in the league, and so far, Trey has been disappointing, probably below what all 32 GMs were expecting - especially in a KS offense. Things can change, but we should not be making excuses for winners and we should not be making excuses for losers. Our QBs are what their stats say they are. With the exception of Trey's "fake" TD last week, lol.

While I fully agree that Purdy is the better talent atm and it's not even questionable Purdy gets passes for missing TD's while Trey get's called fake TD's.

Dude, take a statistics class. When you extract a sample from the Population (capital P), it does not represent the Population. I can play the exact same game with Tom Brady if you want me to, cherry picking a suboptimal play and then extrapolating that he's the worst of all time. Or you can successfully run a candy store and then extrapolate that you can therefore run all of Walmart. It just doesn't work that way.

First off, the play above was almost a TD and was not that bad of a play. Second, if you look at the body of Purdy's work, both in college and the NFL, he's a rock star so far, and the best predictor of future performance is past performance. All things considered, Purdy kicked ass in yesterday's game.

Trey this preseason in 3 quarters.

22-33 285 yards 2 td 1 int 101.5 rating

If you think that proves something, you didn't watch the games

It proves people will use stats just to fit a narrative.

As you all have done with Trey's four starts, only three of which were even finished and none of which were consecutive.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by TreyDeyEeyDey:
Yet all week people were propping up 55+ game Pinto for his performance against 4th and 5th stringers. That's obvious bias. Trey takes a sack and we hear about it all week. Pinto takes 2 sacks with people open and have you said a single word? I have film in Pintos thread

People should still feel good about Darnold as a backup. He was steady solid again yesterday. He wasn't flawless.

It would be good to see the all-22 of the plays you screencapped in his thread though. No offense, but I think you're probably not looking at those plays with a great understanding of what's expected of the QB. That seemed to be the case on at least 1 of the 3 plays and maybe 2. Would have to wait to see the film first.

I disagree. He had three 3 and outs on 6 drives. The offense (quick math) had around 49 yards before his one TD drive. He was not moving the chains at all. He made a couple nice throws and that's it. I don't understand where this idea that he played well comes from. I don't think he was much better than Trey game one to be honest outside of the fact that he had a ton of experience. People want to say what Trey did against 4th stringers shouldn't count but he did more than Darnold did against the Raiders 4th stringers.

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:
They should've looked for an elite QB instead of wasting all that time.

Just as an aside, I can't think of any situation from the past that fits ours, and the arguments around it.

I feel like one of the closest is the Brees - Rivers situation that Chargers had… and that one was at least partially decided by injury.

Originally posted by ritz126:

Originally posted by Ezekiel38:
He's only behind mentally due to reps. Not because he is mentally deficient. He scored elite on the same cognitive test Brock scored elite on.

The ONLY reason Trey is not QB1 right now is because of Brock playing at an elite level last season. Not because Trey sucks or is not ready. He is ready that's why he was our QB1 to start last season.

he was not he made a lot of improvements this past offseason which helped a lot

but my complaint is not his intelligence athletic profile etc its the game is too fast for him his reads are a bit late sometimes which is why I think he did well against 3rd or 4th stringers (high-end college talent pretty much) but trouble against 1st and 2nd stringers.

Of course, this is only based on the past 2 games

This reasoning is incompatible with what was observed. He SPED UP SIGNIFICANTLY, which is precisely why he looked better. The mental block isn't processing talent, as Steve Young has pointed out.

Originally posted by TreyDeyEeyDey:
I disagree. He had three 3 and outs on 6 drives. The offense (quick math) had around 49 yards before his one TD drive. He was not moving the chains at all. He made a couple nice throws and that's it, I honestly don't understand where this idea that he played well comes from. I don't think he was much better than Trey game one to be honest outside of the fact that he had a ton of experience. People want to say what Trey did against 4th stringers shouldn't count but he did more than Darnold did against the Raiders 4th stringers.

The yards and the 3 and outs aren't necessarily the fault of the QB. Miss me with the statistics in any of these arguments. They're team stats. Same goes when they're used against Trey.

We can evaluate the QBs play individually.

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
This reasoning is incompatible with what was observed. He SPED UP SIGNIFICANTLY, which is precisely why he looked better. The mental block isn't processing talent, as Steve Young has pointed out.

i wouldn't say that its been a year of offseason training

I wish people would stop accusing each other of being haters. If Trey lights it up and wins us a SB, every single person on this board will be rooting for him and happy we have him. What there are is a bunch of pissed off fans who feel like giving up 3 precious and irreplaceable first rounders got us promise, potential, lots and lots of excuses from apologists, and a backup QB who is trying not to be QB3. I don't think it's fair to call any of them haters, myself included. We all want the guy to succeed. We also want that to have already happened and not still be discussing it in year 3.

Originally posted by Shemp:
I wish people would stop accusing each other of being haters. If Trey lights it up and wins us a SB, every single person on this board will be rooting for him and happy we have him. What there are is a bunch of pissed off fans who feel like giving up 3 precious and irreplaceable first rounders got us promise, potential, lots and lots of excuses from apologists, and a backup QB who is trying not to be QB3. I don't think it's fair to call any of them haters, myself included. We all want the guy to succeed. We also want that to have already happened and not still be discussing it in year 3.

agreed i think Trey will still be a good QB but lets face it if Trey had the season Purdy did last year I think we would all be crowing him as maybe the top NFC QB this year along with Hurts

Originally posted by ritz126:
agreed i think Trey will still be a good QB but lets face it if Trey had the season Purdy did last year I think we would all be crowing him as maybe the top NFC QB this year along with Hurts

Probably, but that's not that surprising or a big deal.

It's not unusual for fans to get hung up on expectations based on where a player was drafted and/or perceived talent. Brock's not supposed* to be good. Trey's supposed* to be great someday.

Originally posted by TreyDeyEeyDey:

Originally posted by Dshearn:

Originally posted by JTB1974:
The Trey haters in the media "We are going to pretend the last 2 drives never happened"

Must be nice to be able to just pick and choose and or ignore the plays you want to fit your narative. If there was ever a doubt that a certain group have a personal bias against Trey, There is no doubt anymore. There was 3 things that I figured were going to happen after this performance.

1.The critics were going to stay completely silent and not comment on the perfomance at all. And this did happen with a few.
2.People will make excuses as to why he had some success. This happened alot. Mostly among this board.
3.People will still find a way to say he was awful. And just pick and choose the negative plays and ignore the really good. This also happened.

No one cares if a Mustang 5.0 beat a couple of Sonatas.... It's a mustang...No s**t it beat up cars that will not be on the track when the actual races starts...

What people want to know is can that Mustang be upgraded enough with the spare time we have to work on it to be competitive in races that people bring actual SUPER CARS to the track.

It is a yes or no answer, because we happen to have another 5.0 that someone has spent a few years already working on.

Yet here you are.... cheering about beating up some Sonatas and VW bugs, thinking people must have some personal bias because they don't put the same weight into accomplishment that you do...

Yet all week people were propping up 55+ game Pinto for his performance against 4th and 5th stringers. That's obvious bias. Trey takes a sack and we hear about it all week. Pinto takes 2 sacks with people open and have you said a single word? I have film in Pintos thread

Lol....

That is hilarious.....

Since one of these two cars has actually been able to race, and the other cant stay out of the mechanics shop....

Especially since the other car has not proven a thing, and might never prove to be as good as a pinto.

I think I finally understand your view point, you are afraid your Mustang is going to get out ran by a Pinto....