Dallas Cowboys QB Trey Lance Thread

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by Jcool:
The correct call was always Justin Fields. He has his issues in the NFL but like i said during the draft process, Trey Lance had to make a jump just to get to Fields college level and then had to make another leap to be a top QB. That is asking a lot (Not sure its ever happened). I think Fields has shown to be the QB Kyle thought he was getting with Lance and in his system would be a pretty good QB and still might be with the Steelers.

I don't see how anyone could watch how Fields has played as an NFL player and still think he should have been the pick, or that his experience here would have been significantly different.

He was an explosive athlete and a project as a passer coming out. No project who needed playing time to learn the game would have worked out with a team trying to win the Super Bowl at the same time. You pick one priority or the other, but you can't do both.

I liked Lance better than Fields coming out, because you see the potential to become a successful QB from the pocket in theory. Fields was an absolute no no pick for me.

Fields was his guy during the draft so he's always digging in on him

Originally posted by Jcool:
The correct call was always Justin Fields. He has his issues in the NFL but like i said during the draft process, Trey Lance had to make a jump just to get to Fields college level and then had to make another leap to be a top QB. That is asking a lot (Not sure its ever happened). I think Fields has shown to be the QB Kyle thought he was getting with Lance and in his system would be a pretty good QB and still might be with the Steelers.

the correct call was always staying at 12

you keep all your ones
JF is > TL but notice he's not in town in CHI

PIT got Fields for what? let me google.. for a sixth! so if you wanted him you can get him for a sixth. why pay three ones?

Martz watched both QBs and ripped them, and ppl had to make up fake smears on Martz, who nailed it. his take looks like gold in hindsight.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by Jcool:
The correct call was always Justin Fields. He has his issues in the NFL but like i said during the draft process, Trey Lance had to make a jump just to get to Fields college level and then had to make another leap to be a top QB. That is asking a lot (Not sure its ever happened). I think Fields has shown to be the QB Kyle thought he was getting with Lance and in his system would be a pretty good QB and still might be with the Steelers.

the correct call was always staying at 12

you keep all your ones
JF is > TL but notice he's not in town in CHI

PIT got Fields for what? let me google.. for a sixth! so if you wanted him you can get him for a sixth. why pay three ones?

Martz watched both QBs and ripped them, and ppl had to make up fake smears on Martz, who nailed it. his take looks like gold in hindsight.

1. Mike Martz is never the guy you want to use to prove a point.

2. The correct call is always move up for a QB you believe in (not one person would care what they gave up if Lance is throwing 25+ TDs for the 49ers) and we know what type of QB they wanted since they took Lance. Its one thing if Lance is the only super athletic QB available and the timeline just didn't work out with him. Its another to pass on the more pro ready and arguably more athletic QB that is also available to draft. While Fields ultimately might not be that guy either. He has at lest shown enough to prove the 49ers screwed up not drafting him.

Originally posted by Jcool:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by Jcool:
The correct call was always Justin Fields. He has his issues in the NFL but like i said during the draft process, Trey Lance had to make a jump just to get to Fields college level and then had to make another leap to be a top QB. That is asking a lot (Not sure its ever happened). I think Fields has shown to be the QB Kyle thought he was getting with Lance and in his system would be a pretty good QB and still might be with the Steelers.

the correct call was always staying at 12

you keep all your ones
JF is > TL but notice he's not in town in CHI

PIT got Fields for what? let me google.. for a sixth! so if you wanted him you can get him for a sixth. why pay three ones?

Martz watched both QBs and ripped them, and ppl had to make up fake smears on Martz, who nailed it. his take looks like gold in hindsight.

1. Mike Martz is never the guy you want to use to prove a point.

2. The correct call is always move up for a QB you believe in (not one person would care what they gave up if Lance is throwing 25+ TDs for the 49ers) and we know what type of QB they wanted since they took Lance. Its one thing if Lance is the only super athletic QB available and the timeline just didn't work out with him. Its another to pass on the more pro ready and arguably more athletic QB that is also available to draft. While Fields ultimately might not be that guy either. He has at lest shown enough to prove the 49ers screwed up not drafting him.

Not true at all

Originally posted by Jcool:
1. Mike Martz is never the guy you want to use to prove a point.

2. The correct call is always move up for a QB you believe in (not one person would care what they gave up if Lance is throwing 25+ TDs for the 49ers) and we know what type of QB they wanted since they took Lance. Its one thing if Lance is the only super athletic QB available and the timeline just didn't work out with him. Its another to pass on the more pro ready and arguably more athletic QB that is also available to draft. While Fields ultimately might not be that guy either. He has at lest shown enough to prove the 49ers screwed up not drafting him.

I really question taking a QB early particularly mortgaging drafts in the process. QB is notoriously tough to evaluate. so many busts.

GB seems to have it more figured out than any franchise, they don't take QBs early, they get em late round 1 and develop them from the bench.

also i stand up for Martz he coached 40 years and has a ring, where he OC'd a grocery clerk to one of the best seasons of all time

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by Jcool:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by Jcool:
The correct call was always Justin Fields. He has his issues in the NFL but like i said during the draft process, Trey Lance had to make a jump just to get to Fields college level and then had to make another leap to be a top QB. That is asking a lot (Not sure its ever happened). I think Fields has shown to be the QB Kyle thought he was getting with Lance and in his system would be a pretty good QB and still might be with the Steelers.

the correct call was always staying at 12

you keep all your ones
JF is > TL but notice he's not in town in CHI

PIT got Fields for what? let me google.. for a sixth! so if you wanted him you can get him for a sixth. why pay three ones?

Martz watched both QBs and ripped them, and ppl had to make up fake smears on Martz, who nailed it. his take looks like gold in hindsight.

1. Mike Martz is never the guy you want to use to prove a point.

2. The correct call is always move up for a QB you believe in (not one person would care what they gave up if Lance is throwing 25+ TDs for the 49ers) and we know what type of QB they wanted since they took Lance. Its one thing if Lance is the only super athletic QB available and the timeline just didn't work out with him. Its another to pass on the more pro ready and arguably more athletic QB that is also available to draft. While Fields ultimately might not be that guy either. He has at lest shown enough to prove the 49ers screwed up not drafting him.

Not true at all

Prove it.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by Jcool:
1. Mike Martz is never the guy you want to use to prove a point.

2. The correct call is always move up for a QB you believe in (not one person would care what they gave up if Lance is throwing 25+ TDs for the 49ers) and we know what type of QB they wanted since they took Lance. Its one thing if Lance is the only super athletic QB available and the timeline just didn't work out with him. Its another to pass on the more pro ready and arguably more athletic QB that is also available to draft. While Fields ultimately might not be that guy either. He has at lest shown enough to prove the 49ers screwed up not drafting him.

I really question taking a QB early particularly mortgaging drafts in the process. QB is notoriously tough to evaluate. so many busts.

GB seems to have it more figured out than any franchise, they don't take QBs early, they get em late round 1 and develop them from the bench.

also i stand up for Martz he coached 40 years and has a ring, where he OC'd a grocery clerk to one of the best seasons of all time

Jordan Love looked really good for 1/2 a season so far. Long way to go to be a top QB. It was also done with different front offices so might just be luck as apposed to organizational philosophy.

Originally posted by Jcool:
Prove it.

prove what? I demonstrated his worth in the league is a single round 6 pick. if we flew up to get him that's our 1 in 2021, in 2022, and in 2023. do you see how hard his value has depreciated?

i mean you could want Fields and you could have offered CHI a round 4. why give up any more than that? that's my point on QBs. look at Sam Darnold, he was 3 overall, Vikings got him for nothing, and i bet he does pretty well. so if you want that elite guy, just wait. they can fall to you very cheap. look at Trey now. Baker, Goff, etc. Value changes pretty quick over time. why not buy these guys for a round 5, vs 3 ones. when you have way more information

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by Jcool:
Prove it.

prove what? I demonstrated his worth in the league is a single round 6 pick. if we flew up to get him that's our 1 in 2021, in 2022, and in 2023. do you see how hard his value has depreciated?

i mean you could want Fields and you could have offered CHI a round 4. why give up any more than that? that's my point on QBs. look at Sam Darnold, he was 3 overall, Vikings got him for nothing, and i bet he does pretty well. so if you want that elite guy, just wait. they can fall to you very cheap. look at Trey now. Baker, Goff, etc. Value changes pretty quick over time. why not buy these guys for a round 5, vs 3 ones. when you have way more information

Prove what? I wasn't even asking you so not sure why you are responding to that. He highlighted something and said it wasn't true.

His worth was because the Chicago Bears had the #1 overall pick and Williams was the guy. How were they going to get a top pick when everyone knew they weren't keeping him. They tried to hold out for better value but ultimately they put him in a good spot and while it doesn't look like he will start the year as the guy. RW seems to be on a short leash and Fields will get his chance this year.

Goff was involved in a blockbuster trade so not sure why he is included in this. So your philosophy is find a QB with talent that has gotten so bad with the original team that they cut him or trade for a mid round pick and hope it was just a bad spot for him and he will recover? Seems like your going to fail a lot with that. Jameis Winston would fit that and he just signed a one year deal to be the backup in Cleveland. Zach Wilson is in Denver as a backup and they have declined his 5th year option. Sam Darnold is on his 4th NFL team and hasn't thrown 10+ TDs in the last 4 seasons. Expecting much from him is risky.

It was idiotic to trade up not knowing who they wanted. It was even worse taking the rawest prospect of all time.
if this guy plays another full year of exposure at ndsu he's not even drafted.
Somebody needs to make John and Juke tell them just wtf they were thinking in scouting him

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by Jcool:
The correct call was always Justin Fields. He has his issues in the NFL but like i said during the draft process, Trey Lance had to make a jump just to get to Fields college level and then had to make another leap to be a top QB. That is asking a lot (Not sure its ever happened). I think Fields has shown to be the QB Kyle thought he was getting with Lance and in his system would be a pretty good QB and still might be with the Steelers.

the correct call was always staying at 12

you keep all your ones
JF is > TL but notice he's not in town in CHI

PIT got Fields for what? let me google.. for a sixth! so if you wanted him you can get him for a sixth. why pay three ones?

Martz watched both QBs and ripped them, and ppl had to make up fake smears on Martz, who nailed it. his take looks like gold in hindsight.

Yeah Martz was right about both. They can't play from the pocket.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by Jcool:
1. Mike Martz is never the guy you want to use to prove a point.

2. The correct call is always move up for a QB you believe in (not one person would care what they gave up if Lance is throwing 25+ TDs for the 49ers) and we know what type of QB they wanted since they took Lance. Its one thing if Lance is the only super athletic QB available and the timeline just didn't work out with him. Its another to pass on the more pro ready and arguably more athletic QB that is also available to draft. While Fields ultimately might not be that guy either. He has at lest shown enough to prove the 49ers screwed up not drafting him.

I really question taking a QB early particularly mortgaging drafts in the process. QB is notoriously tough to evaluate. so many busts.

GB seems to have it more figured out than any franchise, they don't take QBs early, they get em late round 1 and develop them from the bench.

also i stand up for Martz he coached 40 years and has a ring, where he OC'd a grocery clerk to one of the best seasons of all time

San Diego Chargers

They were absolutely known to hate 1st round picks, and the cost of the contracts. They traded 1st rounds year after year after year....

They got to the Super Bowl with that strategy.

Greenbay understands that you can take a talent, sit that talent and wait to start him AFTER he knows the system, and is use to practicing against NFL level talent.

I agree knocking Martz for his take on QBs is foolish. Clearly the guy has a historically good take on what you need in an NFL QB. Is he definitive? No...neither was Bill Walsh....but clearly their takes come from an actual understanding of the game, not just a gut feeling.

Originally posted by Dshearn:
San Diego Chargers

They were absolutely known to hate 1st round picks, and the cost of the contracts. They traded 1st rounds year after year after year....

They got to the Super Bowl with that strategy.

Greenbay understands that you can take a talent, sit that talent and wait to start him AFTER he knows the system, and is use to practicing against NFL level talent.

I agree knocking Martz for his take on QBs is foolish. Clearly the guy has a historically good take on what you need in an NFL QB. Is he definitive? No...neither was Bill Walsh....but clearly their takes come from an actual understanding of the game, not just a gut feeling.

Martz has proven to be good on QB evaluation and people should listen to him. He pegged both Lance and Fields big time. He's just kind of a jerk about it. He talks a bit arrogant and that puts some people off. But knowing offense and QB is something he's good at.

Originally posted by Jcool:
Prove what? I wasn't even asking you so not sure why you are responding to that. He highlighted something and said it wasn't true.

His worth was because the Chicago Bears had the #1 overall pick and Williams was the guy. How were they going to get a top pick when everyone knew they weren't keeping him. They tried to hold out for better value but ultimately they put him in a good spot and while it doesn't look like he will start the year as the guy. RW seems to be on a short leash and Fields will get his chance this year.

Goff was involved in a blockbuster trade so not sure why he is included in this. So your philosophy is find a QB with talent that has gotten so bad with the original team that they cut him or trade for a mid round pick and hope it was just a bad spot for him and he will recover? Seems like your going to fail a lot with that. Jameis Winston would fit that and he just signed a one year deal to be the backup in Cleveland. Zach Wilson is in Denver as a backup and they have declined his 5th year option. Sam Darnold is on his 4th NFL team and hasn't thrown 10+ TDs in the last 4 seasons. Expecting much from him is risky.

Fields is an example of an asset worth a round 1 and in a couple years worth dramatically less. at QB you see many such examples. Mac was basically free. Lance cost little for DAL. Zach Wilson was freely available to any team. Some of these guys do turn it around. Maybe JF will in PIT. Darnold trying to turn it around also. Baker and Goff seemingly did turn it around, after seeming to flop.

however, even if JF turns it around, it doesn't mean we should have taken him at pick 3. just get him for a round 6 if you like him, like PIT

Originally posted by Jcool:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by Jcool:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by Jcool:
The correct call was always Justin Fields. He has his issues in the NFL but like i said during the draft process, Trey Lance had to make a jump just to get to Fields college level and then had to make another leap to be a top QB. That is asking a lot (Not sure its ever happened). I think Fields has shown to be the QB Kyle thought he was getting with Lance and in his system would be a pretty good QB and still might be with the Steelers.

the correct call was always staying at 12

you keep all your ones
JF is > TL but notice he's not in town in CHI

PIT got Fields for what? let me google.. for a sixth! so if you wanted him you can get him for a sixth. why pay three ones?

Martz watched both QBs and ripped them, and ppl had to make up fake smears on Martz, who nailed it. his take looks like gold in hindsight.

1. Mike Martz is never the guy you want to use to prove a point.

2. The correct call is always move up for a QB you believe in (not one person would care what they gave up if Lance is throwing 25+ TDs for the 49ers) and we know what type of QB they wanted since they took Lance. Its one thing if Lance is the only super athletic QB available and the timeline just didn't work out with him. Its another to pass on the more pro ready and arguably more athletic QB that is also available to draft. While Fields ultimately might not be that guy either. He has at lest shown enough to prove the 49ers screwed up not drafting him.

Not true at all

Prove it.

The proof is in the pudding pal. But keep telling everyone he was the right pick so you can say you were right