Dallas Cowboys QB Trey Lance Thread

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by Joecool:
But my evaluation of his play Saturday:

1. Late on throws
2. Seeing it then throwing it
3. Pocket awareness was weak. Didn't feels the sack coming.

Kind of like Alex Smith his rookie year.

lol it's crazy how some people saw that game.

Yes he was late on a couple of throws, yes he needs to see the blitz coming and go to his checkdown but talk about overreaction.

Yeah. It's not like he had a perfect game by any means. I would give him a B to B-. Should have been 9-14 100+ yards and a TD. Not his fault the WRs dropped perfect passes.

But I really think people struggle to isolate the players they want to evaluate. And why is that?

Because it's really really f**king hard to do!

People get paid a lot of money to evaluate players and they still draft busts in the first round every year.

+2 INT's. Let's be objective here.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by a49erfan77:
Mahomes threw 35 passes his rookie season and 5k yards and 50 TDs in year two. I don't see Trey sitting for a season as a hindrance, considering he is likely to see more than 35 passes. And before you go with the "Mahomes admitted he couldn't read a defense until 2020" argument, I'm not so sure Lance is that far ahead in that regard based on some of those sacks and near picks in game 1.

Justin Herbert went 31 in 10 after sitting out one regular season game. We can cherry pick whatever…I don't think Mahomes would have sucked if he played year one. Talent is talent.

I wasn't cherry picking, I was pointing out that Mahomes was just fine after a season on the bench. Whether Trey starts this season or not, he's gonna be okay.

Originally posted by Jeepzilla:
Well there you go folks. If you were on the fence before about Who should be starting, that extra .36% should shut down all questions and definitely start Trey..

thanks for that NY..
Hopefully you can repeat it 78 times just for precaution in cause anyone has missed it..

No different than b******tting about a rookie never winning a SB…haven't heard that in here over and over.

Jeep we all know how you feel about it, no need to constantly be a dick to me, just because you don't agree…that's not changing anything sorry dude.

Originally posted by NCommand:
+2 INT's. Let's be objective here.

Which probably wouldn't have happened to begin with If the receivers didn't keep drop drive killing passes.

Originally posted by a49erfan77:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by a49erfan77:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by frenchmov:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Key point for any OL evaluation in pass pro including here is the QB. Clip 1 Lance is at 6.5/7 yards. Clip 2 he drifts back to about 12 yards, meaning pressure is 100% on him. https://t.co/fu2o4J9jlL

— Brandon Thorn (@BrandonThornNFL) August 15, 2021

Kyle still doesn't understand pass protection.

Shanahan says that one of the Trey Lance sacks "he definitely needed to get rid of." Shanahan says the other three would've been tough escapes for Lance, especially given down and distance

— David Lombardi (@LombardiHimself) August 15, 2021

Kyle doesn't understand pass protection? Lol. You should be an assistant hc so you could teach Kyle a thing or two

Me? Brandon is the expert. I was just pointing out the discrepancy. Kyle was a WR in college. OL play probably isn't his forte.

I think it's more of not throwing the oline or Trey under the bus than it is him not knowing how pass protection works. Brandon also doesn't know the protection call there. Maybe the OT and Lance were expecting the back to help outside on the DE. It sure looked that way seeing how the OT doesn't seem to care that he's immediately beaten to the outside. (Though that could also be because he expected Lance to be higher up in the pocket)

That's very possible. I'm kind of looking at the collective evidence (draft capital, 125 hits a year, bottom tier in PP, lower standards compared to run blocking, etc) and not the possible coach-speak. I can't remember if it was Eric Davis or Ian Williams who on a pod, said the pass protection standards were very low and there didn't seem to be a lot of accountability in that OL room..

That's fair, but also have to consider that 2018 was really the only season where every starter on the line made it through the whole season.

That's a key issue this far. They absolutely struggle keeping the same 5 on the line at the same time every game all season long (whatever the reasons).

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by Joecool:
But my evaluation of his play Saturday:

1. Late on throws
2. Seeing it then throwing it
3. Pocket awareness was weak. Didn't feels the sack coming.

Kind of like Alex Smith his rookie year.

lol it's crazy how some people saw that game.

Yes he was late on a couple of throws, yes he needs to see the blitz coming and go to his checkdown but talk about overreaction.

Who's overreacting? Did I make a prediction?

Your evaluation of him is listed above...that's an overreaction.

His pocket awareness wasn't weak. It wasn't great but it wasn't weak. Him not seeing the blitz is experience, it's not poor pocket presence. If you're expecting Tom Brady like pocket presence from Lance that's more on you.

You basically put some of the poor things he showed in small sample size and based your whole evaluation on the guy. Once again...overreaction.

We all know everything he struggled with has to do with lack of experience but in no way was there any reaction let alone over reaction. It's just what it is, he played, he did some things and he didn't do things.

I put what he showed. There wasn't any summary statement about how his NFL career would be.

Take the emotion out of it.

Originally posted by Sickaa:

Originally posted by NCommand:
+2 INT's. Let's be objective here.

Which probably wouldn't have happened to begin with If the receivers didn't keep drop drive killing passes.

Huh? What does that have to do with the decision making and actual throws?

This team always has issues with drops (esp. untimely ones) so you should be used to that.

Poor pass protection and drops and injuries will continue to be the big issues no matter the QB. It won't just change because Trey is under C now. So you might want to just throw those excuses in the trash right now.

Originally posted by Tman:

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by Tman:
So who are the top 3 QBs playing right now…..Brady, Rodgers, Mahomes? What do they all have in common besides winning SBs

Not saying this the tried and true method but it does lead to future success

All those guys show is development helps. I think Brady and Rodgers sitting was a big help for them but another thing all those guys had in common they started a lot of games in college.

Brady played in 29 games at Michigan
Rodgers played in 25 games at Cal
Mahomes played in 32 games at Texas Tech

Lance played in 17 games at NDSU

Lance needs the game snaps because his development is further back than most of those guys. It's a tough situation because there are clearly things he has to work on but it's hard to work on those things when you're not actually playing.

I think that's even more reason to let him sit.

That wasn't really my point. It's a balancing act. We're a talented roster with a shot at the SB if we limit mistakes and take advantage of Kyle's scheme. However Lance also makes this offense from legit to dangerous so you need to get him out there in some capacity to have him grow.

Brady grew as a QB more by playing. Rodgers sat for a while and worked on his mechanics so he hit the ground running.

Lance needs to work on his mechanics but he also needs game reps. You can work on mechanics in the offseason but game reps you can only get by playing.

Kyle will have to see what improvements Trey makes before week 1. If he thinks he's made enough where his talents overcome things he still has to work on then he'll start. If he thinks Trey still hasn't shown enough of the little things where he thinks Jimmy gives them the less potential for mistakes and better chance to win games then Jimmy will get the starting job and Trey will see the field for some plays.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by Joecool:
But my evaluation of his play Saturday:

1. Late on throws
2. Seeing it then throwing it
3. Pocket awareness was weak. Didn't feels the sack coming.

Kind of like Alex Smith his rookie year.

lol it's crazy how some people saw that game.

Yes he was late on a couple of throws, yes he needs to see the blitz coming and go to his checkdown but talk about overreaction.

Yeah. It's not like he had a perfect game by any means. I would give him a B to B-. Should have been 9-14 100+ yards and a TD. Not his fault the WRs dropped perfect passes.

But I really think people struggle to isolate the players they want to evaluate. And why is that?

Because it's really really f**king hard to do!

People get paid a lot of money to evaluate players and they still draft busts in the first round every year.

+2 INT's. Let's be objective here.

Okay. If you want to say both those passes should have been picked then you can also mention that 3 of those drops should have been first downs. Maybe he turns those drives into touchdowns as well.

Lance isn't perfect… he's gonna make mistakes. But we're comparing him to our current starter Jimmy… who Kyle completely put on training wheels with 3 easy passes because he has consistently shown that he's capable of throwing nearly 2-4 picks in any single game.

So if we learn that they're both equally prone to throwing the ball to the other team, (Not saying it's currently equal) then wouldn't the QB who has Lance's big play skill set give us the best chance to win?

I've never said Lance needs to start game one. I'm leaving that up to Kyle. But I believe we will need Lance to be great to win this division and make a deep playoff run. This team is about the same or worse than 2019 and a lot of teams got much better making this a much tougher year to get the first seed imo.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Sickaa:

Originally posted by NCommand:
+2 INT's. Let's be objective here.

Which probably wouldn't have happened to begin with If the receivers didn't keep drop drive killing passes.

Huh? What does that have to do with the decision making and actual throws?

This team always has issues with drops (esp. untimely ones) so you should be used to that.

Poor pass protection and drops and injuries will continue to be the big issues no matter the QB. It won't just change because Trey is under C now. So you might want to just throw those excuses in the trash right now.

A lot, If the receivers had caught the ball, The offense wouldn't have been put It obvious passing situations. With that amount of drops + Awful OL play, bad things we're bound to happen, especially for a rookie QB who's considered Raw

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by Joecool:
But my evaluation of his play Saturday:

1. Late on throws
2. Seeing it then throwing it
3. Pocket awareness was weak. Didn't feels the sack coming.

Kind of like Alex Smith his rookie year.

lol it's crazy how some people saw that game.

Yes he was late on a couple of throws, yes he needs to see the blitz coming and go to his checkdown but talk about overreaction.

Who's overreacting? Did I make a prediction?

YOU are overreacting. The answer to your second question doesnt change the answer to your first at all. Its you.

Originally posted by Sickaa:

Originally posted by NCommand:
+2 INT's. Let's be objective here.

Which probably wouldn't have happened to begin with If the receivers didn't keep drop drive killing passes.

The dropped passes had nothing to do with the two near INTs. Different drives.

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by Tman:

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by Tman:
So who are the top 3 QBs playing right now…..Brady, Rodgers, Mahomes? What do they all have in common besides winning SBs

Not saying this the tried and true method but it does lead to future success

All those guys show is development helps. I think Brady and Rodgers sitting was a big help for them but another thing all those guys had in common they started a lot of games in college.

Brady played in 29 games at Michigan
Rodgers played in 25 games at Cal
Mahomes played in 32 games at Texas Tech

Lance played in 17 games at NDSU

Lance needs the game snaps because his development is further back than most of those guys. It's a tough situation because there are clearly things he has to work on but it's hard to work on those things when you're not actually playing.

I think that's even more reason to let him sit.

That wasn't really my point. It's a balancing act. We're a talented roster with a shot at the SB if we limit mistakes and take advantage of Kyle's scheme. However Lance also makes this offense from legit to dangerous so you need to get him out there in some capacity to have him grow.

Brady grew as a QB more by playing. Rodgers sat for a while and worked on his mechanics so he hit the ground running.

Lance needs to work on his mechanics but he also needs game reps. You can work on mechanics in the offseason but game reps you can only get by playing.

Kyle will have to see what improvements Trey makes before week 1. If he thinks he's made enough where his talents overcome things he still has to work on then he'll start. If he thinks Trey still hasn't shown enough of the little things where he thinks Jimmy gives them the less potential for mistakes and better chance to win games then Jimmy will get the starting job and Trey will see the field for some plays.

Right, good post. We have a shot at a Super Bowl this year if we limit mistakes just like you said. Those SB shots are few and far between like we all know to well. So if we need to limit the mistakes why start such a young, albeit super talented, inexperienced qb? Makes a whole lot more sense to ride the veteran who was here for our last SB visit.

There is wisdom in both approaches in developing Trey, I'm just on a different side then you

I'd say don't even be worried if his play isn't flawless with all the starters out there.

But I do want to see him with everyone out there with the best blocking possible.

I have a feeling we'll see that much better of a play by Trey.

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by Joecool:
But my evaluation of his play Saturday:

1. Late on throws
2. Seeing it then throwing it
3. Pocket awareness was weak. Didn't feels the sack coming.

Kind of like Alex Smith his rookie year.

lol it's crazy how some people saw that game.

Yes he was late on a couple of throws, yes he needs to see the blitz coming and go to his checkdown but talk about overreaction.

Who's overreacting? Did I make a prediction?

YOU are overreacting. The answer to your second question doesnt change the answer to your first at all. Its you.

There was no reaction. A reaction would be something like, "Oh no, we wasted 3 first round picks! Lance is done!"