Dallas Cowboys QB Trey Lance Thread

Originally posted by boast:
dispelling the myth that a guy cant sit on the bench a year after not playing a year before. we all know Lance will see action during the season. he might even start the final game of the season if the Niners wrap up a bye earlier than later.

Taking a small sample size and making a sweeping generalization is poor in almost every discipline that uses such methods (science, logic, etc.). It's no different here.

If Lance starts this year, wins the Super Bowl, should every team that drafts a rookie let him start, since Lance won a Super Bowl as a rookie? Of course not. Because context matters. Because small sample sizes (one being the epitome of small) is all but irrelevant.

I'm sure we can all find single scenarios, or small samples of scenarios, wherein we can conclude anything about anyone.

Originally posted by NinerBuff:

Originally posted by BleedsRedNGold:
The fact of the matter is that Shanahan got great tape for Trey to review. He was in so many situations against a good NFL caliber defense. Shanahan wanted him to screw up. The worst thing that could happen to Trey was to have a Justin Fields-like performance and become arrogant just like Fields is becoming. A reporter asked Fields if the NFL game speed was fast, he responded that he thought it was "slow". How arrogant and overconfident. This kid is just waiting to get his confidence crushed. I realize the kid is competing for the starting job and has to pump himself up, but he sounded like a arrogant jackass.

On the other hand, Trey came across as humble. He realized that he didn't light the world on fire and the first thing he wanted to do that night was to look at the game film. Shanahan couldn't ask for anything more. He wanted Trey to make some bad plays tonight and he has plenty of material to teach with.

All of this. The Fields comment was definitely cringe worthy. Maybe he succeeds, but that level of confidence after a preseason game is a recipe for disaster.

I know it doesn't matter because this is the Trey lance thread on a niner forum but the s**tty ass media took this s**tty snippet and ran with it.

His entire sentence was something to the effect of, the game is slow because I go up against the bears defense every day.

His point was to give the bears D props, not to boast. It wasn't a well thought out sentence but people are really taking it out of context

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by Sickaa:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by boast:
dispelling the myth that a guy cant sit on the bench a year after not playing a year before. we all know Lance will see action during the season. he might even start the final game of the season if the Niners wrap up a bye earlier than later.

And Peyton Manning can be used to prove you can start a rookie and have a horrible year and not ruin his confidence.

Alex Smith too to some extent.

There's an example of every scenario working out well and bad. It's why the whole to red shirt or not is just dumb imo. Good players will be good regardless. It's more situation and scheme than anything. Our team is clearly more talented than most top 5 QB pick team. I don't see why anyone wouldn't want the more talented player to play. Our defense is going to be winning most the games anyways.

imo the biggest factor here is the money payed to Jimmy and the possible capital you could get for him on a trade. If the starter was Tyrod Taylor or Brian Hoyer sure the conversation would be much different.

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by Tman:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by Tman:
Right, good post. We have a shot at a Super Bowl this year if we limit mistakes just like you said. Those SB shots are few and far between like we all know to well. So if we need to limit the mistakes why start such a young, albeit super talented, inexperienced qb? Makes a whole lot more sense to ride the veteran who was here for our last SB visit.

There is wisdom in both approaches in developing Trey, I'm just on a different side then you

Because our not so young, less talented, more experienced QB makes these mistakes too.

Mistakes comes in more forms then throwing picks

Agreed. Like passing over an open WR down field in favor of a safe check down is a mistake. You dont have to tell ME this sir. I have been beating this drum since Alex Smith was our QB.

I understand we are all clamoring for the fireworks a super talented, strong armed qb will bring but you can't honestly argue Trey has the same grasp on the offense and nfl defenses that Jimmy does right now?

I can't wait to see Trey as the starter too, patience is a virtue. It will happen sooner or later.

Originally posted by richterkbelmont:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by Sickaa:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by boast:
dispelling the myth that a guy cant sit on the bench a year after not playing a year before. we all know Lance will see action during the season. he might even start the final game of the season if the Niners wrap up a bye earlier than later.

And Peyton Manning can be used to prove you can start a rookie and have a horrible year and not ruin his confidence.

Alex Smith too to some extent.

There's an example of every scenario working out well and bad. It's why the whole to red shirt or not is just dumb imo. Good players will be good regardless. It's more situation and scheme than anything. Our team is clearly more talented than most top 5 QB pick team. I don't see why anyone wouldn't want the more talented player to play. Our defense is going to be winning most the games anyways.

imo the biggest factor here is the money payed to Jimmy and the possible capital you could get for him on a trade. If the starter was Tyrod Taylor or Brian Hoyer sure the conversation would be much different.

I think Jimmy is a couple levels above hoyer and Taylor though too

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Joecool:
Yeah, I could give two s**ts about performing well on shot plays that are designed to break coverage. I care more about the plays that are expected to be performed on a higher volume throughout games. Lance has a long way to go. We all had far-fetched hopes that he would come out like a 10 year vet. He didn't because he's not. BUT, he showed some things that he needs to and most likely will improve upon.

Saturday simply showed that he is not ready yet, not that he will never be ready. Don't know why some see pointing out areas of deficiency as no room for improvement.

So Lance has a long way to go based off 29 snaps? How about we throw him out there with guys that will actually be playing on Sunday and running plays that use his skill set more?

I think that's a pretty overblown statement.

You don't want Lance to start week 1 at all.

I don't care about week 1, I fully expect JG to be the guy then…my whole argument is if you want Lance to improve he's gotta play football. Not hold the clipboard and be 3 yrs removed from playing real football…getting starter reps.

ive always stated after the bye week. No need to dramatize NC

Just giving you crap. Your argument that he doesn't learn anything by watching lends itself to starting from day 1.

I genuinely don't have a preference either way. I gotta trust Kyle on this one.

Originally posted by BamaNiner:
This is going to sound crazy with my stance on Lance, but he has to play and play pretty early. You simply cannot expect a guy to sit 2 straight years and then come in ready next year after only throwing the ball 300 times in college, especially at ndsu division.
Kyle has literally put his career on the line for this guy. He needs to play and play well because this is a roster ready to compete.

Says who?

Sitting doesn't mean sitting. Trey will get packages in games. He will play mop-up during blow-outs and if we clinch the playoffs early, he'll play week 18.

Originally posted by boast:

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by boast:
Charlie Weiss doesnt expect Trey to start this year. says the Niners are happy to be able to go the Mahomes route with him.

Charlie Weiss is old. His takes are outdated. 49ers aren't going to go the Mahomes route and Kyle has already said that.

Mahomes didn't come from a pro system, he had to work on the fundamentals and that team wasn't expected to be a SB contender.

Kyle has already said Lance will play this year, we'll have to see in what capacity but Mahomes had 1349 pass attempts in college. Lance had 318 pass attempts.

Lance really does need the reps but Kyle will need to balance the work to ensure Trey's growing pains(which will happen like they do for any QB) won't hurt the team.

Kyle saying Lance will play this year doesn't equate to Kyle saying he'll start

I'm aware of that...Mahomes didn't play at all as a rookie until week 17 aka "bench your starters" game.

Kyle isn't talking about playing Lance until that situation, thus it's not the same situation as Mahomes.

Originally posted by Tman:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by Tman:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by Tman:
Right, good post. We have a shot at a Super Bowl this year if we limit mistakes just like you said. Those SB shots are few and far between like we all know to well. So if we need to limit the mistakes why start such a young, albeit super talented, inexperienced qb? Makes a whole lot more sense to ride the veteran who was here for our last SB visit.

There is wisdom in both approaches in developing Trey, I'm just on a different side then you

Because our not so young, less talented, more experienced QB makes these mistakes too.

Mistakes comes in more forms then throwing picks

Agreed. Like passing over an open WR down field in favor of a safe check down is a mistake. You dont have to tell ME this sir. I have been beating this drum since Alex Smith was our QB.

I understand we are all clamoring for the fireworks a super talented, strong armed qb will bring but you can't honestly argue Trey has the same grasp on the offense and nfl defenses that Jimmy does right now?

I can't wait to see Trey as the starter too, patience is a virtue. It will happen sooner or later.

I am not arguing that he has the same grasp on the offense and NFL defenses that Jimmy does. That is not and has never been my point.

My point is that he needs to play. He needs the experience. He won't get that experience sitting on the bench. I dont mind him taking his lumps this year because I believe with Shanahans scheme and the fact that we have a good amount of talent on offense, Treys lumps will not cost us a bunch of wins. And I believe his skillset might actually win us games.

This situation is so different than most highly drafted QB's situations. He can still make some mistakes without it being a huge detriment to the team...especially given the fact that Jimmy makes a ton of mistakes even in spite of the experience.

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
I am not arguing that he has the same grasp on the offense and NFL defenses that Jimmy does. That is not and has never been my point.

My point is that he needs to play. He needs the experience. He won't get that experience sitting on the bench. I dont mind him taking his lumps this year because I believe with Shanahans scheme and the fact that we have a good amount of talent on offense, Treys lumps will not cost us a bunch of wins. And I believe his skillset might actually win us games.

This situation is so different than most highly drafted QB's situations. He can still make some mistakes without it being a huge detriment to the team...especially given the fact that Jimmy makes a ton of mistakes even in spite of the experience.

Originally posted by richterkbelmont:

Originally posted by NinerBuff:

Originally posted by BleedsRedNGold:
The fact of the matter is that Shanahan got great tape for Trey to review. He was in so many situations against a good NFL caliber defense. Shanahan wanted him to screw up. The worst thing that could happen to Trey was to have a Justin Fields-like performance and become arrogant just like Fields is becoming. A reporter asked Fields if the NFL game speed was fast, he responded that he thought it was "slow". How arrogant and overconfident. This kid is just waiting to get his confidence crushed. I realize the kid is competing for the starting job and has to pump himself up, but he sounded like a arrogant jackass.

On the other hand, Trey came across as humble. He realized that he didn't light the world on fire and the first thing he wanted to do that night was to look at the game film. Shanahan couldn't ask for anything more. He wanted Trey to make some bad plays tonight and he has plenty of material to teach with.

All of this. The Fields comment was definitely cringe worthy. Maybe he succeeds, but that level of confidence after a preseason game is a recipe for disaster.

Fields has over 3.5 seconds to throw, it's not like the Bears starting OL is great so he won't have that kind of time consistenty. I loved Fields as a prospect except for that weird Blake Bortles like release and hope he succeeds for a change in Chicago.

I just rewatched Fields vs the Dolphins. His stat line is sexier than Trey's but his play was similar - some really good, some good, some bad

People have already brought up the difference in coaching but Fields was clearly being allowed to use his ability to make plays, they rolled him out, they gave him some easy looks - his TD pass, James literally moonwalked his way into the endzone it was so wide open.

Fields also had a fumbled snap, bad fumble while scrambling, threw off his backfoot into tight coverage on a ball that nearly got picked and didn't do much until the Dolphins went to 2nd/3rd string guys on defense. He was also out there with their starting OTs, they did bench their interior guys but Fields was barely touched and Dolphins played prevent during his 2 minute drive situation, rushing 3 in most snaps.

Comparing the two right now is pretty dumb.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by BleedsRedNGold:
The fact of the matter is that Shanahan got great tape for Trey to review. He was in so many situations against a good NFL caliber defense. Shanahan wanted him to screw up. The worst thing that could happen to Trey was to have a Justin Fields-like performance and become arrogant just like Fields is becoming. A reporter asked Fields if the NFL game speed was fast, he responded that he thought it was "slow". How arrogant and overconfident. This kid is just waiting to get his confidence crushed. I realize the kid is competing for the starting job and has to pump himself up, but he sounded like a arrogant jackass.

On the other hand, Trey came across as humble. He realized that he didn't light the world on fire and the first thing he wanted to do that night was to look at the game film. Shanahan couldn't ask for anything more. He wanted Trey to make some bad plays tonight and he has plenty of material to teach with.

Good post. When Kyle dialed up a pass play from their own 1 yard line, it became clear that Kyle wanted to put Lance in uncomfortable situations.

Yeah interesting hearing Fields' response. Very surprised he responded like that, shades of Leonard Fournette.

Look forward to both guys getting their chance to carry the team vs legit defenses.

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by Tman:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by Tman:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by Tman:
Right, good post. We have a shot at a Super Bowl this year if we limit mistakes just like you said. Those SB shots are few and far between like we all know to well. So if we need to limit the mistakes why start such a young, albeit super talented, inexperienced qb? Makes a whole lot more sense to ride the veteran who was here for our last SB visit.

There is wisdom in both approaches in developing Trey, I'm just on a different side then you

Because our not so young, less talented, more experienced QB makes these mistakes too.

Mistakes comes in more forms then throwing picks

Agreed. Like passing over an open WR down field in favor of a safe check down is a mistake. You dont have to tell ME this sir. I have been beating this drum since Alex Smith was our QB.

I understand we are all clamoring for the fireworks a super talented, strong armed qb will bring but you can't honestly argue Trey has the same grasp on the offense and nfl defenses that Jimmy does right now?

I can't wait to see Trey as the starter too, patience is a virtue. It will happen sooner or later.

I am not arguing that he has the same grasp on the offense and NFL defenses that Jimmy does. That is not and has never been my point.

My point is that he needs to play. He needs the experience. He won't get that experience sitting on the bench. I dont mind him taking his lumps this year because I believe with Shanahans scheme and the fact that we have a good amount of talent on offense, Treys lumps will not cost us a bunch of wins. And I believe his skillset might actually win us games.

This situation is so different than most highly drafted QB's situations. He can still make some mistakes without it being a huge detriment to the team...especially given the fact that Jimmy makes a ton of mistakes even in spite of the experience.

Fully agree on the bolded

Rarely does a QB drafted that high have this opportunity to sit and learn on a very good team. Most have to be thrust into action to sink or swim.

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by boast:

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by boast:
Charlie Weiss doesnt expect Trey to start this year. says the Niners are happy to be able to go the Mahomes route with him.

Charlie Weiss is old. His takes are outdated. 49ers aren't going to go the Mahomes route and Kyle has already said that.

Mahomes didn't come from a pro system, he had to work on the fundamentals and that team wasn't expected to be a SB contender.

Kyle has already said Lance will play this year, we'll have to see in what capacity but Mahomes had 1349 pass attempts in college. Lance had 318 pass attempts.

Lance really does need the reps but Kyle will need to balance the work to ensure Trey's growing pains(which will happen like they do for any QB) won't hurt the team.

Kyle saying Lance will play this year doesn't equate to Kyle saying he'll start

I'm aware of that...Mahomes didn't play at all as a rookie until week 17 aka "bench your starters" game.

Kyle isn't talking about playing Lance until that situation, thus it's not the same situation as Mahomes.

sitting behind a starter for a year is what Weiss was alluding to. it's a similar situation. not the exact same but similar.

Originally posted by boast:
dispelling the myth that a guy cant sit on the bench a year after not playing a year before. we all know Lance will see action during the season. he might even start the final game of the season if the Niners wrap up a bye earlier than later.

Once again Lance isn't your typical player. He has 318 pass attempts under his belt. Aaron Rodgers sat allowing him to work on his mechanics but he had twice as many attempts in college vs higher level of competition.

Yes Lance could sit, work on things and hit the ground running but it's not the same comparison.