Dallas Cowboys QB Trey Lance Thread

Originally posted by NinerBuff:
Needs first team reps, period.

This

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Trey Lance is ready to start.
Trey Lance is nowhere near ready.
It's boring — so, sorry — but the truth is somewhere in between.
This is #49ers Overreactions … https://t.co/Sm1Bj5Us56

— Matt Maiocco (@MaioccoNBCS) August 16, 2021

Trey Lance is right where I thought he would be. Making splash plays, but also making rookie mistakes. Also wish I could see him with the starting O-line that includes Trent Williams and Alex Mack!!! But in due time!!

Absolutely. Same here. He's already made a lot of strides too.

Originally posted by fan49:

Originally posted by NinerBuff:

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
They have to keep Jimmy. As exciting as Lances TD was he is still not ready and wasting a superbowl caliber roster on a shaky rookie is how u waste a superbowl window. Keep Jimmy and start him til u need Lance. If Jimmy is hurt or falters a couple games in a row we have Lance to come in with his deadly arm and legs. When healthy Jimmy is the man

That assumes he can't provide similar QB play as Jimmy does.

I think right now with his uneven passing ability, running ability, and our stout run game and defense he would produce similar offensive production, albeit a different style. RGIII's rookie campaign is what I'm talking about.

It appears as though most posters would prefer the alternative, but I want Lance to be QB1 now.

He can do what jimmy does just won't. Jimmy's average was like 4.5 yards an attempt. Add 20 more throws, you add an int and the attempt yards doesn't change. Sure tray got excited in there playing against the ones, with second stringers. There is no way around it we need to see tray with ones against ones. I want tray to start because jimmy is never a threat in any way. Defenses don't have to game plan for him.

"JG is never a threat"

his starting record enters the chat

Kyle is toughening Trey up for what to expect in the regular season. So when the regular season happens this stuff won't be surprising to him and will be able to adapt better because he saw it all in the pre-season. When Trey is a superstar in a year or two he will be look back at this years pre-season and say this helped him. Grant is ranting about how Kyle should have did everything to put Trey in the best position to succeed in these meaningless games as if that is going to be the case in the regular season where he never deals with a pass rush, never gets sacked or hit. That is not going to be the case. He is going to have to deal with these situations and you would rather it happen in a meaningless pre-season game, than a regular season game. Kyle and McDaniel have already stated they want trey to deal with some failure so he could learn from it. What does tearing up the pre-season due for these rookies that have already made the team, Except to give them false confidence?

Originally posted by Crown:
"JG is never a threat"

his starting record enters the chat

His starting record is the reason he's still QB1.

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by NCommand:
LOL. OK, they were rated 32 out of 32 in a pre season game instead of 26th for a full real season.

The OLine will never be the reason why Jimmy can't test deep down the hashes.

Screaming "OLine OLine OLine!!!" to everyone incessantly doesn't somehow make Jimmy a playmaking QB.

People want to blame it on his ACL,...but I've posted in this thread the same exact thing NE was waiting to get back to their offense once Brady came back: testing the deeper ends of the field. Jimmy served well and looked good/serviceable for sure.

But his skills are limited, regardless of the OLine. Hence, the 3 1st rounders for Trey.

Literally, nobody was talking about Garoppolo. Nor was that anywhere near the point.

That's literally one of your top 3 Objectives on the board since before the trade for the #3 pick. You know,..."Narratives" and stuff.

Just about you talked about to hammer home is that we should keep the statue Quarterback without seeking another one and upgrade the OLine. The former didn't work out the way you wished, so here you are, still pushing the theory. Is there anything here wrong? Your gig is being a narrator,....dont become a denier as well.

Haha. Just meant that's not what we were talking about in that exchange you jumped in on.

Fake news. We never fixed the pass protection which is vital to a classic drop back QB. And then I expanded it to mobile QB's as well. That's more than proven accurate. Like the very first pre season game WITH a mobile QB. You still need quality and consistent pass protection or it won't matter in the end. That's been my narrative for like 20 years here. LOL

I understand your point but I think you're still using a straw man argument with mobile QBs vs pocket QBs and their effect on the offensive line.

I think it's clear that having a mobile QB doesn't result in less sacks. I get that.

But when you hear players and coaches talk about playing against mobile QBs, they all say it affects their ability to rush and bring extra player on blitzes.

Lance and Jimmy G might take the same exact amount of sacks if they started the whole season… all my point has been is that having someone like Trey at QB helps keep defenses honest or it adds a chance to break a huge run if the defense doesn't keep their rush lanes. That's why having a mobile QB "helps" the offensive line. You have more chances at producing big plays when normally you would be getting sacked with bad OL play.

Right, I'm merely speaking from pure pass protection and not how just the threat of a run by a QB can help in that aspect; like a cerebral veteran QB with total control presnap can affect the defense.

Mobile QB's are just on the other side of the spectrum. Their issue is all the extra hits, lots of injuries, huge losses on sack yardage, relying on athleticism too much to where it inhibits their in-pocket development, late season burn outs and ineffectiveness, more on their plate (designed QB runs, RPO's, RO, etc.), OL doesn't know how and where to block for them, etc.

Obviously the most ideal is perfectly in between like Steve Young after countless years within the WCO. They don't have those long practices and time to develop like that anymore so it'll lean more towards the athletic side to help counter that. That's what the league is proving now.

Originally posted by NCommand:
Right, I'm merely speaking from pure pass protection and not how just the threat of a run by a QB can help in that aspect; like a cerebral veteran QB with total control presnap can affect the defense.

Mobile QB's are just on the other side of the spectrum. Their issue is all the extra hits, lots of injuries, huge losses on sack yardage, relying on athleticism too much to where it inhibits their in-pocket development, late season burn outs and ineffectiveness, more on their plate (designed QB runs, RPO's, RO, etc.), OL doesn't know how and where to block for them, etc.

Obviously the most ideal is perfectly in between like Steve Young after countless years within the WCO. They don't have those long practices and time to develop like that anymore so it'll lean more towards the athletic side to help counter that. That's what the league is proving now.

I find it rediculius you guys talk about all this stuff without pointing out he looks like a buff ass jaden smith.

Originally posted by NinerBuff:

Originally posted by Crown:
"JG is never a threat"

his starting record enters the chat

His starting record is the reason he's still QB1.

agreed.

it is obvious that he doesn't have the physical skills of Trey.

he has veteran grit, been in the system and command of the O.
Literally no reason to sit him...yet.

when all is said and done Trey will be the better QB. just not yet Kids.

Originally posted by JTB1974:
Kyle is toughening Trey up for what to expect in the regular season. So when the regular season happens this stuff won't be surprising to him and will be able to adapt better because he saw it all in the pre-season. When Trey is a superstar in a year or two he will be look back at this years pre-season and say this helped him. Grant is ranting about how Kyle should have did everything to put Trey in the best position to succeed in these meaningless games as if that is going to be the case in the regular season where he never deals with a pass rush, never gets sacked or hit. That is not going to be the case. He is going to have to deal with these situations and you would rather it happen in a meaningless pre-season game, than a regular season game. Kyle and McDaniel have already stated they want trey to deal with some failure so he could learn from it. What does tearing up the pre-season due for these rookies that have already made the team, Except to give them false confidence?

Almost as if KS knows QB play is more than practices and preseason. Ill never shut up about it but the biggest hurdle a rookie QB has is learning defenses. Gimmicky QBs can overcome that initially because they force the defense to have to account for the gimmick. Once NFL defenses get film and develop a plan, its game over unless the QB can prove to be an NFL caliber QB within the pocket.

It's also likely why KS is keeping Lance within the pocket on plays, he doesnt want the run mentality to become his instinct and would rather see him process the field under pressure rather than just run the ball. Once Lance proves he isnt a run first guy, KS will let him do what every he wants once he has the reigns.

But back to the point and the one missed by allot of people thinking a very talented rookie is better than an established slightly above average QB... reading defenses. JG makes a couple boneheaded plays in a game, no doubt. Lance is at the place where he may launch a 80 yard TD... but follow that up with a few bone headed plays per half. And thats with over analyzing one preseason game (which in itself is foolish but its a forum and what we do.)

The arrow is definitely up with Lance but almost every NFL coach will stick with the dink and dunker who stays within themselves and has only a couple WTF throws a game, to the boom or bust guy that is just as likely to launch a 80 yard TD then throw it into double/triple coverage and get lucky the defenders cant catch. Thats against a vanilla 2nd string D, whether he was running for his life or not... forcing things is always gonna piss a coach off. Throw it away and "Live to see another down." This wasnt a practice to see if he could pull it off, it was an audition for the starting job. His running ability is gonna be an asset when he gets the okay to do so... but so is the ability to just dink and dunk it rather than muscle throws into coverage. He needs all the tools to be successful not just go downfield or run. Those tools will only be there when he knows exactly what the defense is doing and taking advantage of what they give him, whether its running, dinking or launching an 65 yard ball.

Originally posted by Crown:

Originally posted by NinerBuff:

Originally posted by Crown:
"JG is never a threat"

his starting record enters the chat

His starting record is the reason he's still QB1.

agreed.

it is obvious that he doesn't have the physical skills of Trey.

he has veteran grit, been in the system and command of the O.
Literally no reason to sit him...yet.

when all is said and done Trey will be the better QB. just not yet Kids.

Originally posted by Jubwub88:
I find it rediculius you guys talk about all this stuff without pointing out he looks like a buff ass jaden smith.

LMAO!

Originally posted by TheRickestRick:

Originally posted by JTB1974:
Kyle is toughening Trey up for what to expect in the regular season. So when the regular season happens this stuff won't be surprising to him and will be able to adapt better because he saw it all in the pre-season. When Trey is a superstar in a year or two he will be look back at this years pre-season and say this helped him. Grant is ranting about how Kyle should have did everything to put Trey in the best position to succeed in these meaningless games as if that is going to be the case in the regular season where he never deals with a pass rush, never gets sacked or hit. That is not going to be the case. He is going to have to deal with these situations and you would rather it happen in a meaningless pre-season game, than a regular season game. Kyle and McDaniel have already stated they want trey to deal with some failure so he could learn from it. What does tearing up the pre-season due for these rookies that have already made the team, Except to give them false confidence?

Almost as if KS knows QB play is more than practices and preseason. Ill never shut up about it but the biggest hurdle a rookie QB has is learning defenses. Gimmicky QBs can overcome that initially because they force the defense to have to account for the gimmick. Once NFL defenses get film and develop a plan, its game over unless the QB can prove to be an NFL caliber QB within the pocket.

It's also likely why KS is keeping Lance within the pocket on plays, he doesnt want the run mentality to become his instinct and would rather see him process the field under pressure rather than just run the ball. Once Lance proves he isnt a run first guy, KS will let him do what every he wants once he has the reigns.

But back to the point and the one missed by allot of people thinking a very talented rookie is better than an established slightly above average QB... reading defenses. JG makes a couple boneheaded plays in a game, no doubt. Lance is at the place where he may launch a 80 yard TD... but follow that up with a few bone headed plays per half. And thats with over analyzing one preseason game (which in itself is foolish but its a forum and what we do.)

The arrow is definitely up with Lance but almost every NFL coach will stick with the dink and dunker who stays within themselves and has only a couple WTF throws a game, to the boom or bust guy that is just as likely to launch a 80 yard TD then throw it into double/triple coverage and get lucky the defenders cant catch. Thats against a vanilla 2nd string D, whether he was running for his life or not... forcing things is always gonna piss a coach off. Throw it away and "Live to see another down." This wasnt a practice to see if he could pull it off, it was an audition for the starting job. His running ability is gonna be an asset when he gets the okay to do so... but so is the ability to just dink and dunk it rather than muscle throws into coverage. He needs all the tools to be successful not just go downfield or run. Those tools will only be there when he knows exactly what the defense is doing and taking advantage of what they give him, whether its running, dinking or launching an 65 yard ball.

Another aspect to this is 3rd downs. Kyle loves setting up explosives but he can't do that until he's got a QB who can efficiently be tops on 3rd downs. And Jimmy was #1 at that and 'should' be even better now. 3rd down completions + strong running game + top tier defense = a s**t ton of wins in this league and within striking distance of a Superbowl.

We just saw that with Trey. One big explosive, a few drops, and then unable to consistently sustain drives.

Until Kyle feels the explosives will outweigh the 3rd down moving the chains or until he feels Trey will be tops in 3rd downs, he won't start.

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
I am not arguing that he has the same grasp on the offense and NFL defenses that Jimmy does. That is not and has never been my point.

My point is that he needs to play. He needs the experience. He won't get that experience sitting on the bench. I dont mind him taking his lumps this year because I believe with Shanahans scheme and the fact that we have a good amount of talent on offense, Treys lumps will not cost us a bunch of wins. And I believe his skillset might actually win us games.

This situation is so different than most highly drafted QB's situations. He can still make some mistakes without it being a huge detriment to the team... especially given the fact that Jimmy makes a ton of mistakes even in spite of the experience.

This post is a joke, right?

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:

Originally posted by NinerBuff:

Originally posted by Tman:

Originally posted by NinerBuff:

Originally posted by Tman:
Luckily for us Jimmy has a knack for winning

Which make the choice hard. We don't want to lose either of our first two games. I contended either QB should be successful, but Jimmy is a proven winner.

The only major risk is if Lance bombs… but I haven't seen or heard anything that would make me think that would happen. He had an up/down performance Saturday and that's probably what to expect for most of his rookie year. But coupling his big play potential to our SB roster and have him learn while doing still seems like the best strategy to me.

Because the #1 goal is to win a SB. However, Lynch and Shanahan's record isn't good overall and while they're not on the hot seat now, another losing season or mismanagement of the QB situation could result in that. You could make the argument that Shanahan is more concerned about maxing out his chances of making the playoffs vs. maxing out his chances for a SB. They're different. The former one is very likely with Jimmy on the roster. The later is unlikely period, but even more so with Jimmy's contract.

They have to keep Jimmy. As exciting as Lances TD was he is still not ready and wasting a superbowl caliber roster on a shaky rookie is how u waste a superbowl window. Keep Jimmy and start him til u need Lance. If Jimmy is hurt or falters a couple games in a row we have Lance to come in with his deadly arm and legs. When healthy Jimmy is the man

This all day

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
Because our not so young, less talented, more experienced QB makes these mistakes too.

This, absolutely this.

People forget also forget that our run game is our foundation.

Wait until Trey is adding to it, and then dropping bombs when the D creeps up.

This is the way.