Dallas Cowboys QB Trey Lance Thread

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:

Originally posted by Joecool:
I don't know, JG looked pretty good playing playground ball back in 2017.

Was it out of structure? Or was it just Kyle playing to his strengths?

I think your desire to have Trey start right away is clouding your memory, do you remember Jimmy's first TD pass with the niners? Came on a play he extended against the Seahawks.

Is he the best at extending or broken plays, no but he isn't inept either

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:

Originally posted by Joecool:
I don't know, JG looked pretty good playing playground ball back in 2017.

Was it out of structure? Or was it just Kyle playing to his strengths?

The plays we remembered, a good chunk was off schedule.

so he made the OL better

Originally posted by TheWooLick:

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by a49erfan77:
Yikes, these are horrible examples.

Play #1: You're not looking for a hot route on a 4 man rush. He needs more than two seconds to throw the ball. If you don't even have time to see that the 1st read isn't open and move to the second, there isn't much you can do.

Play #2: He found the open guy and the pass was batted at the line. Not sure how that is on him.

#1: Guess you skipped over the part where I said both were not blitzes...and decided to tell me that anyway? Okay. It was a bad rep... The guy was left completely open. No apologies there.

2) Throwing where there's no passing lane is when the receiver is hot on the right for what looks to be an easy 1st? Bad play. If you disagree, then I guess that's where we will leave it.

Why are you posting clips from years ago in the Trey thread?

Everything seems to come back to either bashing Jimmy or stroking Stafford for you in this thread.

Same reason people keep talking about how great Jimmy is based on his 2017 5 game season.

Also pretty funny that you are literally the only one to bring up Stafford in quite some time.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:

Originally posted by grapesofrathman:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Kolohe:
It's literally 50/50 you could argue either way which type of QB is injured more than the other. But if you wanna talk what type of QB has more Super Bowl rings, most definitely the pocket passer!!!

That too will change over the next 20 years too.

God, can you imagine what football will be like in 20 years? LOL

To paraphrase Greg Cosell on one specific thing I've heard him say over the radio on KNBR: "structured football is and will continue to be forefront to a team's success"

By structure, we're talking game planning, scheme, and playcalling, and not so much random elements that don't involve the aformentioned. That's why I kinda don't get it when people talk about how Kyle is a master at "scheming" receivers open and whatnot. The job of an offense is to stay a step ahead of the defense (and vice-versa). I don't think the objective here is to overrely on "athletes being athletes". This does not at all mean the entire immobile pocket QBs vs mobile QBs debate, but instead something more in the vein of a QB "understanding" what a defense is doing/trying to do before the snap, and confirming it post-snap OR understanding what actually is happening post-snap vs what they showed pre-snap, as opposed to maybe not necessarily grasping what the defense did after the snap and then trying to make up for it via scrambling, or maybe having way too much faith in your arm strength and accuracy and trying to fit in throws that you may swear are actually there.

Although I agree with what you've said, you're still failing to grasp what many others are.

The goal is to find players who excel BOTH within structure and outside of it if the play breaks down, you already said sometimes the D defense is one step ahead.

Jimmy is very good within structure, and very average outside of it (most of his interceptions happen when he ad-libs)

As it stands Trey hasn't proven to be great at either, but the signs show that when he develops he'll be great at both.

I want that development to start as soon as possible.

I don't know, JG looked pretty good playing playground ball back in 2017.

Why do we care about what he was good at in 2017? If your most recent example for claiming a player is good at something is 3-4 years ago, then he's probably not that good at it.

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:

Originally posted by grapesofrathman:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Kolohe:
It's literally 50/50 you could argue either way which type of QB is injured more than the other. But if you wanna talk what type of QB has more Super Bowl rings, most definitely the pocket passer!!!

That too will change over the next 20 years too.

God, can you imagine what football will be like in 20 years? LOL

To paraphrase Greg Cosell on one specific thing I've heard him say over the radio on KNBR: "structured football is and will continue to be forefront to a team's success"

By structure, we're talking game planning, scheme, and playcalling, and not so much random elements that don't involve the aformentioned. That's why I kinda don't get it when people talk about how Kyle is a master at "scheming" receivers open and whatnot. The job of an offense is to stay a step ahead of the defense (and vice-versa). I don't think the objective here is to overrely on "athletes being athletes". This does not at all mean the entire immobile pocket QBs vs mobile QBs debate, but instead something more in the vein of a QB "understanding" what a defense is doing/trying to do before the snap, and confirming it post-snap OR understanding what actually is happening post-snap vs what they showed pre-snap, as opposed to maybe not necessarily grasping what the defense did after the snap and then trying to make up for it via scrambling, or maybe having way too much faith in your arm strength and accuracy and trying to fit in throws that you may swear are actually there.

Although I agree with what you've said, you're still failing to grasp what many others are.

The goal is to find players who excel BOTH within structure and outside of it if the play breaks down, you already said sometimes the D defense is one step ahead.

Jimmy is very good within structure, and very average outside of it (most of his interceptions happen when he ad-libs)

As it stands Trey hasn't proven to be great at either, but the signs show that when he develops he'll be great at both.

I want that development to start as soon as possible.

I don't know, JG looked pretty good playing playground ball back in 2017.

Why do we care about what he was good at in 2017? If your most recent example for claiming a player is good at something is 3-4 years ago, then he's probably not that good at it.

It's the easiest to recognize because he came into the organization and played with very little time in the system structure. I can post Jimmy's highlight vid again for you if you need a more recent refresher

I wonder if we'll see Kyle throw in some option plays this week or whether he'll stick to the basics. Other than the one long pass play, most of Trey's plays were straight drops. There was no pocket to step into when the rush came. He did the right thing by protecting the ball and taking the sack. In a regular season game things might be different but he's not going to risk getting hurt trying to scramble in a pre season game.

Originally posted by Dsoto87:

Originally posted by TheWooLick:

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by a49erfan77:
Yikes, these are horrible examples.

Play #1: You're not looking for a hot route on a 4 man rush. He needs more than two seconds to throw the ball. If you don't even have time to see that the 1st read isn't open and move to the second, there isn't much you can do.

Play #2: He found the open guy and the pass was batted at the line. Not sure how that is on him.

#1: Guess you skipped over the part where I said both were not blitzes...and decided to tell me that anyway? Okay. It was a bad rep... The guy was left completely open. No apologies there.

2) Throwing where there's no passing lane is when the receiver is hot on the right for what looks to be an easy 1st? Bad play. If you disagree, then I guess that's where we will leave it.

Why are you posting clips from years ago in the Trey thread?

Everything seems to come back to either bashing Jimmy or stroking Stafford for you in this thread.

Same reason people keep talking about how great Jimmy is based on his 2017 5 game season.

Also pretty funny that you are literally the only one to bring up Stafford in quite some time.

So you're saying Jimmy is great?

Originally posted by Tman:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:

Originally posted by grapesofrathman:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Kolohe:
It's literally 50/50 you could argue either way which type of QB is injured more than the other. But if you wanna talk what type of QB has more Super Bowl rings, most definitely the pocket passer!!!

That too will change over the next 20 years too.

God, can you imagine what football will be like in 20 years? LOL

To paraphrase Greg Cosell on one specific thing I've heard him say over the radio on KNBR: "structured football is and will continue to be forefront to a team's success"

By structure, we're talking game planning, scheme, and playcalling, and not so much random elements that don't involve the aformentioned. That's why I kinda don't get it when people talk about how Kyle is a master at "scheming" receivers open and whatnot. The job of an offense is to stay a step ahead of the defense (and vice-versa). I don't think the objective here is to overrely on "athletes being athletes". This does not at all mean the entire immobile pocket QBs vs mobile QBs debate, but instead something more in the vein of a QB "understanding" what a defense is doing/trying to do before the snap, and confirming it post-snap OR understanding what actually is happening post-snap vs what they showed pre-snap, as opposed to maybe not necessarily grasping what the defense did after the snap and then trying to make up for it via scrambling, or maybe having way too much faith in your arm strength and accuracy and trying to fit in throws that you may swear are actually there.

Although I agree with what you've said, you're still failing to grasp what many others are.

The goal is to find players who excel BOTH within structure and outside of it if the play breaks down, you already said sometimes the D defense is one step ahead.

Jimmy is very good within structure, and very average outside of it (most of his interceptions happen when he ad-libs)

As it stands Trey hasn't proven to be great at either, but the signs show that when he develops he'll be great at both.

I want that development to start as soon as possible.

I don't know, JG looked pretty good playing playground ball back in 2017.

Why do we care about what he was good at in 2017? If your most recent example for claiming a player is good at something is 3-4 years ago, then he's probably not that good at it.

It's the easiest to recognize because he came into the organization and played with very little time in the system structure. I can post Jimmy's highlight vid again for you if you need a more recent refresher

He came into a team that couldn't win and had one of the worst OLs. JG had no problem with the same OL and winning.

it's not that hard folks. Kyle has ONLY won in SF when JG starts. It wasn't just 2017. We have seen in 2 out of 4 years that Kyle can't simply plug in any QB and win. THIS why Trey should not play until he can be as good, or better than Jimmy on 3rd downs.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by Dsoto87:

Originally posted by TheWooLick:

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by a49erfan77:
Yikes, these are horrible examples.

Play #1: You're not looking for a hot route on a 4 man rush. He needs more than two seconds to throw the ball. If you don't even have time to see that the 1st read isn't open and move to the second, there isn't much you can do.

Play #2: He found the open guy and the pass was batted at the line. Not sure how that is on him.

#1: Guess you skipped over the part where I said both were not blitzes...and decided to tell me that anyway? Okay. It was a bad rep... The guy was left completely open. No apologies there.

2) Throwing where there's no passing lane is when the receiver is hot on the right for what looks to be an easy 1st? Bad play. If you disagree, then I guess that's where we will leave it.

Why are you posting clips from years ago in the Trey thread?

Everything seems to come back to either bashing Jimmy or stroking Stafford for you in this thread.

Same reason people keep talking about how great Jimmy is based on his 2017 5 game season.

Also pretty funny that you are literally the only one to bring up Stafford in quite some time.

So you're saying Jimmy is great?

4 seasons ago

Lance looked pretty much like what you would expect from a one year starter from the FCS. We saw the arm talent, we saw the ability to throw down the field, we also saw a guy who looked considerably unpolished and with a lot of work ahead of him. Playing on a stacked team, in a run first offense against heavyweights like James Madison in the FCS doesn't exactly prepare you for NFL defenses.

He's a work in progress. The worst thing the 49ers could do is to throw him out there, let him get his ass kicked and start seeing ghosts out on the field. I think you have to ease him in packages that will help boost his confidence and make him feel more comfortable as he slowly adapts to the speed of the NFL game while you have a steady veteran in Garoppolo to hold things down.

Considering how much the team invested in Lance, it would be a mistake to try to rush him out there. You didn't trade up for him just for the next season but for the next 15, thus I'm hoping they stick with the long term approach in mind, letting him develop at his own pace.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Lance looked pretty much like what you would expect from a one year starter from the FCS. We saw the arm talent, we saw the ability to throw down the field, we also saw a guy who looked considerably unpolished and with a lot of work ahead of him. Playing on a stacked team, in a run first offense against heavyweights like James Madison in the FCS doesn't exactly prepare you for NFL defenses.

He's a work in progress. The worst thing the 49ers could do is to throw him out there, let him get his ass kicked and start seeing ghosts out on the field. I think you have to ease him in packages that will help boost his confidence and make him feel more comfortable as he slowly adapts to the speed of the NFL game while you have a steady veteran in Garoppolo to hold things down.

Sounds like a plan.

If we go undefeated & win the sb with James garoppolo what happens??

Originally posted by frenchmov:
If we go undefeated & win the sb with James garoppolo what happens??

I get crazy drunk and accidentally ban everyone from the forum, including myself.

Originally posted by Dsoto87:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by Dsoto87:

Originally posted by TheWooLick:

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by a49erfan77:
Yikes, these are horrible examples.

Play #1: You're not looking for a hot route on a 4 man rush. He needs more than two seconds to throw the ball. If you don't even have time to see that the 1st read isn't open and move to the second, there isn't much you can do.

Play #2: He found the open guy and the pass was batted at the line. Not sure how that is on him.

#1: Guess you skipped over the part where I said both were not blitzes...and decided to tell me that anyway? Okay. It was a bad rep... The guy was left completely open. No apologies there.

2) Throwing where there's no passing lane is when the receiver is hot on the right for what looks to be an easy 1st? Bad play. If you disagree, then I guess that's where we will leave it.

Why are you posting clips from years ago in the Trey thread?

Everything seems to come back to either bashing Jimmy or stroking Stafford for you in this thread.

Same reason people keep talking about how great Jimmy is based on his 2017 5 game season.

Also pretty funny that you are literally the only one to bring up Stafford in quite some time.

So you're saying Jimmy is great?

4 seasons ago

2019, too.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Lance looked pretty much like what you would expect from a one year starter from the FCS. We saw the arm talent, we saw the ability to throw down the field, we also saw a guy who looked considerably unpolished and with a lot of work ahead of him. Playing on a stacked team, in a run first offense against heavyweights like James Madison in the FCS doesn't exactly prepare you for NFL defenses.

He's a work in progress. The worst thing the 49ers could do is to throw him out there, let him get his ass kicked and start seeing ghosts out on the field. I think you have to ease him in packages that will help boost his confidence and make him feel more comfortable as he slowly adapts to the speed of the NFL game while you have a steady veteran in Garoppolo to hold things down.

Sounds like a plan.

the humbling begins