Dallas Cowboys QB Trey Lance Thread

Originally posted by Goatie:
Okay lets do it your way and make him start game one?

Is anyone taking odds if that happens he will end up like Rosen, RGIII and many others and be out of the league in 3-4 years. No one wants broken gunshy QB who got crushed in their rookie year.

Originally posted by Sickaa:
I doubt he would end up like the Qbs you've Just mention. There's actually a bunch of rookie Qbs these days who start week 1 And are having some type of success with their respective team And none of those Qbs cost an arm and a leg to be drafted.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by Sickaa:
I doubt he would end up like the Qbs you've Just mention. There's actually a bunch of rookie Qbs these days who start week 1 And are having some type of success with their respective team And none of those Qbs cost an arm and a leg to be drafted.

Like who? Herbert is one that was successful right away, but he was forced into action. That wasn't the original plan. Burrow started okay then got hurt. All the best QBs struggles in year one or didn't start.

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Warned you guys that all this excitement will create expectations....now most of you are being humbled

Don't worry..

This necessary?

My expectation hasnt changed. As soon as Kyle feels he is a starting caliber QB, he will start. And my opinion is that happens sometime in 2021.

I feel the same way but not if he plays the way he did this past Saturday. I wonder if Kyle is weighing the possibility on whether or not he can scheme wins with Lance for enough games to allow Lance to get comfortable and start controlling the offense.

But having said that, no rookie QB has ever won the SB. The ceiling of this team with Jimmy is SuperBowl win. History shows that is NOT the ceiling with a rookie QB.

I was with you until the bolded. Just because something hasn't happened before doesn't mean it can't.

The rookie QB never winning a Super Bowl so Lance can't perform better than Jimmy is the dumbest common take on this forum ATM.

Only this year, with this team, the ceiling for the success of this team is higher with Jimmy than it is with Lance. NOW, since the ceiling is the Super Bowl and not 6 wins, then the starter is a no brainer. NEXT year, the ceiling for the success of this team may be higher with Lance.

Again, that's your OPINION.

I have no problem if people have that opinion to be honest. I'm not mad at anyone who thinks Jimmy G gives us the better chance to win this season.

What I do have a problem with is claiming that it's a FACT that Trey won't be better than Jimmy this season. Cause at this point there isn't enough evidence to say otherwise.

There's a big difference in those two conclusions and your phrasing just in this last post and other people on this forum make it sound like they know for a fact Lance can't win the super bowl because a rookie has never done it.

Ironically the first team to ever win the super bowl in their own stadium happened just last year.

No, it's not a fact. It's about tempering expectations when we have a chance to win a Super Bowl WITH Jimmy already. I'm already very close to ordering my Lance jersey before they get too difficult to obtain.

Lance is better than Jimmy at 2 things right now, and that is the deep ball and running with the ball. The other 95% traits that make a QB successful, Jimmy is better at right now. And be it fact or opinion, it takes QBs a while to operate an NFL offense to the level Jimmy has been able to do.

The point is that there is no need for Kyle to dummy the offense down so that he can wedge Lance in there BECAUSE we have Jimmy. He is a fully capable starter. His only issue has been being healthy and missing one throw in the Super Bowl.

That's not true, and if it was we wouldn't have drafted Lance. Jimmy struggles to see defenders in passing lanes (hence why his pick rate is so high), and he struggles when the first read isn't there. He has vision problems. Most of the time that doesn't matter, because Jimmy has an elite release speed, which allows him to fit the ball into coverage, and he's very willing to go to the checkdown, which helps keep the chains moving. But he is always a risk for a pick because of his vision concerns, and his tendency to be inaccurate deep allows defenses to crowd the middle and put more people in those passing lanes to take advantage of his pick tendencies.

All that said, Lance still isn't better than him, and probably won't be at least for two or three months.

Jimmy hasn't had much experience as a starter either. We tend to forget this. We moved up in the draft for the reason Kyle stated, and that is because it is not very often a team like ours has an opportunity to draft a top blue chip QB. Drafting Lance was more about the window of opportunity more than it was about Jimmy's performance. Just like Mostert, he's great when healthy, but if we can improve at RB and get a more all around RB, then why not. Same with any position.

That is quite true. One of the reasons he has some of these problems is lack of experience, and that comes from his injuries. But, there's only so much experience can do for you, and it's not like he hasn't had lots of practice. If Jimmy hasn't reached his peak, he's fairly close to it.

And as for your statement that the window of opportunity was a big reason we drafted Lance, to an extent that is also true. The assumption by Shanalynch is that we won't be drafting at 11 very much, which means it'd be much harder to move up into the top 5 in a normal year. But that still is related to Jimmy's performance, in the sense that Shanahan is clearly convinced that Jimmy will max out as solid, and will never be truly game-changing. That isn't a knock at all on him. Not everyone can be elite. But Shanahan clearly wants an elite QB, so he took the chance.

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Warned you guys that all this excitement will create expectations....now most of you are being humbled

Don't worry..

This necessary?

My expectation hasnt changed. As soon as Kyle feels he is a starting caliber QB, he will start. And my opinion is that happens sometime in 2021.

I feel the same way but not if he plays the way he did this past Saturday. I wonder if Kyle is weighing the possibility on whether or not he can scheme wins with Lance for enough games to allow Lance to get comfortable and start controlling the offense.

But having said that, no rookie QB has ever won the SB. The ceiling of this team with Jimmy is SuperBowl win. History shows that is NOT the ceiling with a rookie QB.

I was with you until the bolded. Just because something hasn't happened before doesn't mean it can't.

The rookie QB never winning a Super Bowl so Lance can't perform better than Jimmy is the dumbest common take on this forum ATM.

Only this year, with this team, the ceiling for the success of this team is higher with Jimmy than it is with Lance. NOW, since the ceiling is the Super Bowl and not 6 wins, then the starter is a no brainer. NEXT year, the ceiling for the success of this team may be higher with Lance.

Again, that's your OPINION.

I have no problem if people have that opinion to be honest. I'm not mad at anyone who thinks Jimmy G gives us the better chance to win this season.

What I do have a problem with is claiming that it's a FACT that Trey won't be better than Jimmy this season. Cause at this point there isn't enough evidence to say otherwise.

There's a big difference in those two conclusions and your phrasing just in this last post and other people on this forum make it sound like they know for a fact Lance can't win the super bowl because a rookie has never done it.

Ironically the first team to ever win the super bowl in their own stadium happened just last year.

No, it's not a fact. It's about tempering expectations when we have a chance to win a Super Bowl WITH Jimmy already. I'm already very close to ordering my Lance jersey before they get too difficult to obtain.

Lance is better than Jimmy at 2 things right now, and that is the deep ball and running with the ball. The other 95% traits that make a QB successful, Jimmy is better at right now. And be it fact or opinion, it takes QBs a while to operate an NFL offense to the level Jimmy has been able to do.

The point is that there is no need for Kyle to dummy the offense down so that he can wedge Lance in there BECAUSE we have Jimmy. He is a fully capable starter. His only issue has been being healthy and missing one throw in the Super Bowl.

I think that number is a bit high. You're leaving out throws outside the hash that Jimmy struggles with due to arm strength. We also simply don't know the other aspects.

We know Jimmy has way more experience not only in this offense but in the NFL so some things that come with that experience of course he'll be further along than Trey given his limited snaps vs much inferior competition.

But while I'm not as down on Jimmy as some others on this forum but Jimmy isn't exactly Tom Brady/Drew Brees level. There are still mistakes he makes and due to his injuries his game experience doesn't come close to typical 7 year players.

So Jimmy is more advanced at the little things that make an NFL QB successful but there is a line where Jimmy's limitations physically hurt the offense more than Trey's growing pains at learning those little things in games that matter.

And that's the biggest thing for Kyle to identify. At what point do Jimmy's limitations to the offense hurt us more than Trey's rookie mistakes would.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by Sickaa:
I doubt he would end up like the Qbs you've Just mention. There's actually a bunch of rookie Qbs these days who start week 1 And are having some type of success with their respective team And none of those Qbs cost an arm and a leg to be drafted.

Like who? Herbert is one that was successful right away, but he was forced into action. That wasn't the original plan. Burrow started okay then got hurt. All the best QBs struggles in year one or didn't start.

Originally posted by Sickaa:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by Sickaa:
I doubt he would end up like the Qbs you've Just mention. There's actually a bunch of rookie Qbs these days who start week 1 And are having some type of success with their respective team And none of those Qbs cost an arm and a leg to be drafted.

Like who? Herbert is one that was successful right away, but he was forced into action. That wasn't the original plan. Burrow started okay then got hurt. All the best QBs struggles in year one or didn't start.

Deshaun Watson, Russell Wilson, Kyler Murray, Dak Prescott, Herbert and Burrow ( before he got Injured ) same with RGIII...If we're concerned about Injuries, then we may as well bubble wrap our players.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Warned you guys that all this excitement will create expectations....now most of you are being humbled

Don't worry..

This necessary?

My expectation hasnt changed. As soon as Kyle feels he is a starting caliber QB, he will start. And my opinion is that happens sometime in 2021.

I feel the same way but not if he plays the way he did this past Saturday. I wonder if Kyle is weighing the possibility on whether or not he can scheme wins with Lance for enough games to allow Lance to get comfortable and start controlling the offense.

But having said that, no rookie QB has ever won the SB. The ceiling of this team with Jimmy is SuperBowl win. History shows that is NOT the ceiling with a rookie QB.

I was with you until the bolded. Just because something hasn't happened before doesn't mean it can't.

The rookie QB never winning a Super Bowl so Lance can't perform better than Jimmy is the dumbest common take on this forum ATM.

Only this year, with this team, the ceiling for the success of this team is higher with Jimmy than it is with Lance. NOW, since the ceiling is the Super Bowl and not 6 wins, then the starter is a no brainer. NEXT year, the ceiling for the success of this team may be higher with Lance.

Again, that's your OPINION.

I have no problem if people have that opinion to be honest. I'm not mad at anyone who thinks Jimmy G gives us the better chance to win this season.

What I do have a problem with is claiming that it's a FACT that Trey won't be better than Jimmy this season. Cause at this point there isn't enough evidence to say otherwise.

There's a big difference in those two conclusions and your phrasing just in this last post and other people on this forum make it sound like they know for a fact Lance can't win the super bowl because a rookie has never done it.

Ironically the first team to ever win the super bowl in their own stadium happened just last year.

No, it's not a fact. It's about tempering expectations when we have a chance to win a Super Bowl WITH Jimmy already. I'm already very close to ordering my Lance jersey before they get too difficult to obtain.

Lance is better than Jimmy at 2 things right now, and that is the deep ball and running with the ball. The other 95% traits that make a QB successful, Jimmy is better at right now. And be it fact or opinion, it takes QBs a while to operate an NFL offense to the level Jimmy has been able to do.

The point is that there is no need for Kyle to dummy the offense down so that he can wedge Lance in there BECAUSE we have Jimmy. He is a fully capable starter. His only issue has been being healthy and missing one throw in the Super Bowl.

I think that number is a bit high. You're leaving out throws outside the hash that Jimmy struggles with due to arm strength. We also simply don't know the other aspects.

We know Jimmy has way more experience not only in this offense but in the NFL so some things that come with that experience of course he'll be further along than Trey given his limited snaps vs much inferior competition.

But while I'm not as down on Jimmy as some others on this forum but Jimmy isn't exactly Tom Brady/Drew Brees level. There are still mistakes he makes and due to his injuries his game experience doesn't come close to typical 7 year players.

So Jimmy is more advanced at the little things that make an NFL QB successful but there is a line where Jimmy's limitations physically hurt the offense more than Trey's growing pains at learning those little things in games that matter.

And that's the biggest thing for Kyle to identify. At what point do Jimmy's limitations to the offense hurt us more than Trey's rookie mistakes would.

The lack of throws outside the hash have nothing to do with Jimmy's arm strength. He has plenty of arm to throw those deep outs. Those routes require precise timing. There's only been one WR that was seasoned enough and that was Emanuel Sanders.

Jimmy finally has seasoned and athletic targets this year. I don't know about the deep ball, but something tells me if it were a faster receiver other than Emanuel Sanders running that route in the Super Bowl, then that play is made.

Remember, we didn't lose a SB because Jimmy underthrew a deep ball. Maybe we lost it because Manny Sanders wasn't fast enough.

Originally posted by Heroism:
This play is a microcosm of the good and bad. The arm talent is on full display. This is a hell of a throw with perfect placement and great velocity, but it also illustrates how the pressure got to him as Trey's mechanics began to break down later in the game. His upper and lower body are completely disconnected on this throw. Also, I noticed that he began to double-clutch throws a lot as the game progressed.

Perfect outside throw but pass is dropped pic.twitter.com/7EpN15RSgp

— Ted Nguyen (@FB_FilmAnalysis) August 18, 2021

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Lance thread

KC does a good job of sprinting back to their zones after PA and getting into the passing lane. Lance gets out of the pocket and throws a dart to Aiyuk but he drops it pic.twitter.com/kJK9wVI7Wl

— Ted Nguyen (@FB_FilmAnalysis) August 18, 2021

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Lance thread

KC does a good job of sprinting back to their zones after PA and getting into the passing lane. Lance gets out of the pocket and throws a dart to Aiyuk but he drops it pic.twitter.com/kJK9wVI7Wl

— Ted Nguyen (@FB_FilmAnalysis) August 18, 2021