Dallas Cowboys QB Trey Lance Thread

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by frenchtoast:
Trey clearly outplayed JG in every facet of the game during camp. If there was a competition, Trey won it. JG threw 12 INTs, threw rinky dink passes, and the most important reason was presented by Raheem Mostert who explained how the entire running offense opens up with Trey at QB. He should start.

Not only that but as I saw the headline and quote from Lynch that Trey's finger injury was "trending in the right direction", after the last preseason game the consensus overall seemed to be that Jimmy starts because mechanically Trey isn't ready just yet as a passer.

Sure there's going to be some splash plays that Jimmy won't provide nearly as many of. But I can just see the reactions of the "start Trey now" crowd the first time he's horribly inaccurate or fires a fastball in that should have been a bit more off speed and it's tipped off the receiver's hands and picked. Then they'll be crying get him out of there and put Jimmy in.

Heck, while Trey is probably fine for Week 1, Jimmy obviously is the healthier QB right now. Which to many is probably amazing in and of itself.

FWIW, Rodgers didn't start for the Packers til he was 25. Granted, they had Favre (BTW, who had 37 INTS his first two seasons and he worked out OK) and Packers didn't give up any draft capital to get Rodgers. Lance will be starting sooner than later, and he'll have growing pains to be expected (see Favre 37 INTS and Manning 43 INTs in their first two seasons). He'll also be the playmaker the 49ers haven't had at QB.

Originally posted by YACBros85:
The bolded statement is such an exageration. Jimmy has a career 2:1 td to int ratio with 7 game winning drives under his belt. I wonder if someone has a statistic on how many td drives he has after throwing an int? Because he typically comes back strong the next series.

Also, Jimmy's play fakes and fake passes after hand off's help out the rushing game a lot. He is extremely good at holding linebackers with his play fakes. His fake passes after handing the ball off hold the safeties which helps the rb's out when they get to the second level. These are very underated traits that Jimmy posseses but no one seems to talk about.

Not an exaggeration. Jimmy has 26 picks and 17 fumbles in 30 games. We only lost 5 fumbles but that's a dice roll. To say he's not a turnover machine is very homerish.

Originally posted by frenchmov:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
The bolded statement is such an exageration. Jimmy has a career 2:1 td to int ratio with 7 game winning drives under his belt. I wonder if someone has a statistic on how many td drives he has after throwing an int? Because he typically comes back strong the next series.

Also, Jimmy's play fakes and fake passes after hand off's help out the rushing game a lot. He is extremely good at holding linebackers with his play fakes. His fake passes after handing the ball off hold the safeties which helps the rb's out when they get to the second level. These are very underated traits that Jimmy posseses but no one seems to talk about.

Not an exaggeration. Jimmy has 26 picks and 17 fumbles in 30 games. We only lost 5 fumbles but that's a dice roll. To say he's not a turnover machine is very homerish.

He's very turnover prone. He also doesn't let a turnover get in his head. For whatever reason, he can't seem to identify underneath LBs.

Originally posted by frenchmov:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
The bolded statement is such an exageration. Jimmy has a career 2:1 td to int ratio with 7 game winning drives under his belt. I wonder if someone has a statistic on how many td drives he has after throwing an int? Because he typically comes back strong the next series.

Also, Jimmy's play fakes and fake passes after hand off's help out the rushing game a lot. He is extremely good at holding linebackers with his play fakes. His fake passes after handing the ball off hold the safeties which helps the rb's out when they get to the second level. These are very underated traits that Jimmy posseses but no one seems to talk about.

Not an exaggeration. Jimmy has 26 picks and 17 fumbles in 30 games. We only lost 5 fumbles but that's a dice roll. To say he's not a turnover machine is very homerish.

To think Trey is ready to start right now is just as bad. He clearly showed, in vanilla game situations that he's not ready. Kyle will have him in there as soon as he feels he is the better option, which he very clearly is not, no matter how much anyone outside of their quarterback room wishes otherwise. All the folks who think Kyle hates Jimmy as much as they do should realize that if your supposition is true, then Kyle would have Trey in there already if he were even close to ready. As soon as Kyle, and Scarangelo think he's the best option, he will be in there.

Originally posted by NinerBuff:
He's very turnover prone. He also doesn't let a turnover get in his head. For whatever reason, he can't seem to identify underneath LBs.

Ill give him credit for that. But we also have to call a spade a spade: he turns the ball over way more than he should

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
To think Trey is ready to start right now is just as bad. He clearly showed, in vanilla game situations that he's not ready. Kyle will have him in there as soon as he feels he is the better option, which he very clearly is not, no matter how much anyone outside of their quarterback room wishes otherwise. All the folks who think Kyle hates Jimmy as much as they do should realize that if your supposition is true, then Kyle would have Trey in there already if he were even close to ready. As soon as Kyle, and Scarangelo think he's the best option, he will be in there.

My point was if you are worried about Trey turning the ball over, we already have a QB who does that. There are other reasons Trey might not be ready

Originally posted by Rathof44:
FWIW, Rodgers didn't start for the Packers til he was 25. Granted, they had Favre (BTW, who had 37 INTS his first two seasons and he worked out OK) and Packers didn't give up any draft capital to get Rodgers. Lance will be starting sooner than later, and he'll have growing pains to be expected (see Favre 37 INTS and Manning 43 INTs in their first two seasons). He'll also be the playmaker the 49ers haven't had at QB.

Rogers is the exception not the norm when it comes to not playing a QB that long and getting those results imo

Originally posted by frenchmov:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
The bolded statement is such an exageration. Jimmy has a career 2:1 td to int ratio with 7 game winning drives under his belt. I wonder if someone has a statistic on how many td drives he has after throwing an int? Because he typically comes back strong the next series.

Also, Jimmy's play fakes and fake passes after hand off's help out the rushing game a lot. He is extremely good at holding linebackers with his play fakes. His fake passes after handing the ball off hold the safeties which helps the rb's out when they get to the second level. These are very underated traits that Jimmy posseses but no one seems to talk about.

Not an exaggeration. Jimmy has 26 picks and 17 fumbles in 30 games. We only lost 5 fumbles but that's a dice roll. To say he's not a turnover machine is very homerish.

Says it's not an exaggeration...proceeds to list 17 fumbles for Jimmy when only 5 were lost.

Do you know what a turnover means?

How many of those were all on him vs how many on the OL or bad exchange with the RB? We had 5 turnovers vs Pittsburgh 2019. None of them were on Jimmy even though I think he got 3 of those 5 on his record.

So yes it's an exaggeration. Jimmy may not be Aaron Rodgers or later career Alex Smith who are rarely turn the ball over but you're completely overlooking the situations those turnovers happened in.

Sure there are some picks dropped by defenders but you bring up a dice roll for fumbles...does that not apply to picks? How many were off WRs hands? How many were off tipped passes? How many turnovers happened when our OL was playing like hot garbage?

Jameis Winston going 33 TDs with 30 INT...is one thing. Jimmy throwing 27 TDs with 13 INT...is not it.

Is he prone to turnovers? Yes. Is he a turnover machine? No. so yes you're exaggerating.

Since people seem to be big on posting charts these days, here's one to consider.

First-round rookie quarterbacks | 2021 preseason

Player PFF grade Accurate pass % Big-time throw %
Trevor Lawrence 78.3 (10th) 58.5% (22nd) 4.5% (t-22nd)
Zach Wilson 85.7 (N/A) 64.7% (N/A) 9.1% (N/A)
Trey Lance 56.7 (46th) 47.4% (48th) 4.5% (t-22nd)
Justin Fields 67.6 (20th) 38.3% (59th) 5.7% (t-13th)
Mac Jones 92.2 (2nd) 70.8% (3rd) 6.9% (7th)

Now I'm not a huge fan of meta data since I believe by tailoring the input to very narrow and specific criteria you can get it to show just about anything you want. I imagine Lance's ceiling is a lot higher than this would indicate and it is only based on a limited sample size but it is notable that he is near the bottom of all three of these categories among the rookies drafted this year. He may well end up being better than all of them but right now it would seem to indicate that he still has a ways to go.

Originally posted by frenchmov:

Originally posted by NinerBuff:
He's very turnover prone. He also doesn't let a turnover get in his head. For whatever reason, he can't seem to identify underneath LBs.

Ill give him credit for that. But we also have to call a spade a spade: he turns the ball over way more than he should

Yeah... he seems to bounce back strong after throwing an Int, but how much of that Is down to our D preventing the opposition from scoring a TD?, giving JG and the Offense another opportunity to put more points on the board?.. Imagine If we had a bad D to combine with those Ints.

Originally posted by 49ers81:
Since people seem to be big on posting charts these days, here's one to consider.

First-round rookie quarterbacks | 2021 preseason

Player PFF grade Accurate pass % Big-time throw %
Trevor Lawrence 78.3 (10th) 58.5% (22nd) 4.5% (t-22nd)
Zach Wilson 85.7 (N/A) 64.7% (N/A) 9.1% (N/A)
Trey Lance 56.7 (46th) 47.4% (48th) 4.5% (t-22nd)
Justin Fields 67.6 (20th) 38.3% (59th) 5.7% (t-13th)
Mac Jones 92.2 (2nd) 70.8% (3rd) 6.9% (7th)

Now I'm not a huge fan of meta data since I believe by tailoring the input to very narrow and specific criteria you can get it to show just about anything you want. I imagine Lance's ceiling is a lot higher than this would indicate and it is only based on a limited sample size but it is notable that he is near the bottom of all three of these categories among the rookies drafted this year. He may well end up being better than all of them but right now it would seem to indicate that he still has a ways to go.

I don't know about the other QBs on this list but Trey had a lot of passes that were dropped that severely affected his rating and completion %. Three games is a small sample, especially when there's a mixture of a few starters but mostly backups on the field.

Originally posted by Sickaa:

Originally posted by frenchmov:

Originally posted by NinerBuff:
He's very turnover prone. He also doesn't let a turnover get in his head. For whatever reason, he can't seem to identify underneath LBs.

Ill give him credit for that. But we also have to call a spade a spade: he turns the ball over way more than he should

Yeah... he seems to bounce back strong after throwing an Int, but how much of that Is down to our D preventing the opposition from scoring a TD?, giving JG and the Offense another opportunity to put more points on the board?.. Imagine If we had a bad D to combine with those Ints.

This is why he should not be passing much in my opinion. End of the day, this is a running team with a run blocking offensive line. They should pound the rock 30 times per game. This is also why I think it wouldn't be that bad to start Trey. I'm sure he'll do fine with handoffs.

Originally posted by genus49:
Says it's not an exaggeration...proceeds to list 17 fumbles for Jimmy when only 5 were lost.

Do you know what a turnover means?

How many of those were all on him vs how many on the OL or bad exchange with the RB? We had 5 turnovers vs Pittsburgh 2019. None of them were on Jimmy even though I think he got 3 of those 5 on his record.

So yes it's an exaggeration. Jimmy may not be Aaron Rodgers or later career Alex Smith who are rarely turn the ball over but you're completely overlooking the situations those turnovers happened in.

Sure there are some picks dropped by defenders but you bring up a dice roll for fumbles...does that not apply to picks? How many were off WRs hands? How many were off tipped passes? How many turnovers happened when our OL was playing like hot garbage?

Jameis Winston going 33 TDs with 30 INT...is one thing. Jimmy throwing 27 TDs with 13 INT...is not it.

Is he prone to turnovers? Yes. Is he a turnover machine? No. so yes you're exaggerating.

Do you know you can't depend on recovering fumbles? It's outrageous to put up 26 ints and put the ball on the ground an additional 17 times. You can make any excuse you want about WRs dropping balls or whatever (he's had his share of dropped picks) but his turnovers are absolutely a major issue. Semantics if you want to say well he's just really probe to turnovers or he's a turnover machine. However you want to spell it out it's a major problem.

So! If your concern with Trey is he's young & will turn the ball over....our only other QB already does that!

933 pages on a rookie who has never started a game for us. this is for sure going to be an interesting year.